discovered. subscribe to the documentary. this was supposed to be the decisive week for when and how and possibly even whether the u.k. will leave the e.u. remains unclear after stormy debate a partial victory for boris johnson the majority in parliament approved his withdrawal and deal in principle but they voted down his timetable now the ball is in brussels court willing to agree to the extension the reluctant lee requested by the prime minister and westminster seal a deal. on

. the economy. and we have 3 breaths that watchers with us here on to the point to help us penetrate the fog emanating from london it works for the irish times and she says boris johnson and his breakfast brothers have paralyzed europe for 3 years now there is a huge departure has become a deal or no deal game show but it can always get worse and it will. and it's a pleasure to welcome john worse he is a british blogger living here in berlin he says a general election before christmas is now boris johnson's only way out of his self-inflicted maps. and we're very happy to have ventilation from grade 0 with us she works for the british magazine the economist and she says m.p.'s are kicking the can down the road which means it is less and less likely alright. and the money

. so derek you say that johnson and his brothers in your words have paralyzed europe but aren't we in fact seeing at least a little bit of movement now at least there has been agreement agreement on a deal which in fact is something to reset may never achieved it has been technically an preliminary agreement i mean it's tiny steps forward but there could easily be more steps back and we've been doing this are very long time it's a signal of just how poisonous the british political system is now that the parliament doesn't trust its own prime minister they don't trust him that they will agree to this and they have double crossed the more he will be double crossed by his brags the tears the hard bags hears and they will have a no deal breaks it so it's a sign of how bad things are that this is all they could do this week and we don't know what's coming so yes it's progress if you want but from a very low base so the parliamentarians ventilating are asking for more influenced more details more time you say that amounts to kicking the can down the road but

isn't it pretty understandable that they have let's say woken up out of their stupor and are actually making some demands given the magnitude of what's happening it's absolutely understandable because it's a very complex undertaking they have to read through hundreds of pages of more than 100 pages of very detailed very complex stuff and you can't do that in a few days even though the prime minister tries to get them to do that by the end of the month so it is absolutely understandable the only thing is of course if you do then ask for yet another extension that again creates uncertainty and the possibility of obstacles or problems which is of course why for us johnson didn't kept insisting no we have to leave by the 31st of october which increasingly looks like ian unfeasable so john you say a general election could wind up being boris johnson's only way out explain that to us if you would because in fact he does have approval on this deal why would he was . to reopen it so to speak essentially because the only good approval because he

put the parliament terence will potentially put the problem terence under enormous pressure they didn't actually really know this was in the steel so it's basically give me this deal now and what the palm towns are said is i want a minute we need more time to analyze this and when they start looking into it they see details with regard to all of the different aspects the economic relationship the northern ireland border where they have problems and ultimately that 330 politicians that boris johnson had back in his deal he would whittle down that will go lower and lower as the weeks go by and boris johnson is understood that so if he says ok let's risk a general election i'll go into the general election promising breaks it and hopefully come back with a majority so ultimately it would be a gamble but that way he might increase the number of conservative members of parliament and then be able to get a much larger majority to make sure that his brakes it is secure so much talk a little bit about the implications of an election in a moment but 1st let us ourselves explore a little bit of what this deal does contain so it's done just mentioned ireland

especially northern ireland a major sticking point. p. party that used to be friends of the tories saying it's been sold out can you just briefly tell us derek what exactly is the agreement now on ireland is it workable and is it going to be acceptable in the end if there's a compromise on both sides a northern ireland in future will be sort of in between the e.u. and the u.k. it will be officially part legally part of the u.k. customs union so if you k. does deals with the us it can profit from that but there's a back door in the back door we'll keep the border between northern ireland and the republic which is staying in the open so basically if you were to be positive about it they have the best of all possible worlds even membership on officially pragmatically on a day to day basis travelling over back across the open border but they also have access to these wonderful new global britain trade deals of london will be agreeing so they got the. pos words both to the people in northern onto

a lot of the queen they don't want to be they don't want special treatment they just want to be as good to you you know you can citizens anyone else and they think that as time goes on and the trade differences between you can you get bigger the gap between northern are than the rest of the u.k. will become great bigger and then there was sort of on the slippery slope towards united on which they want to avoid literally let's talk a little bit about timing as we said johnson had sworn he would leave the e.u. by october 31st but now he submitted this very very ambivalent request to the e.u. for an extension take us through that if you would well bar a strong sense that he had while the die in a ditch and then then that leaves the later than october 31st now he snogged that he may be but you know that what he did is something very unusual he sent because by little by the fed act he was very quiet to offer for an extension so he sent that letter demanding an extension but without signing it and probably without

putting a stop on the letter maybe even smiled at me a little bit and then he sent another letter which he sayd where he says well you know i'm actually against the extension which was of course playing to his base that was all part of his posturing and you know he said great theatrical thea to make it so that's what it is skew know he he will need an extension it's impossible to get it through by the end of the month but because he promised he wouldn't do that to you he does this whole charade of not signing the letter and pretending you know he's doing something he's obliged to do because it's and nice impose it on him so it seems the ball is now in brussels court and from what we're hearing decision makers there are torn between frustration and the fervent desire to ensure an orderly withdrawal let's go now to w.'s brussels bureau chief max huffman. hi max. hope you can hear and see yes we can you tell me 1st of all what

is the mood in brussels are people there basically saying we have just got to get this thing over well 1st of all the mood is that the ball is not at all in the court of the european union but they still feel they need guidance by boris johnson what's the plan because as you know the braggs a deal is on ice even the break that the withdrawal bill which is the legislation behind the deal is on ice at the moment and boris johnson has always said if there is an extension that he will pull that bill and he will call for snap elections so does he really want to do that how much time would he need to do that if not he still wants to pass the deal how long will it take him to get it through the u.k. house of commons if at all and the thinking here is if we know how long he needs to do that then we'll give him that maybe 5 days extra and then they'll have the time he needs but so far no signals like that from the u.k. so there is frustration about that and you know it's been going on for 3 and a half years it's no miracle that many here just want to get it over with but with

a deal so what's your guess where this is how this is going to play out when will we have a decision out of brussels and what kind of timeframe do you think will then be talking about you ambassadors met wednesday and it appeared that in the room they were all in favor of an extension the question is just how long the french want to short technical extension maybe even 3 to 4 weeks and countries like germany say give them the extension they asked for which is until the 31st of january they will meet again on friday and might get a decision there what they want to avoid at all costs is another summit another brags that summit that gives even more attention to boris johnson next off month thank you very much for being with us. so let's pick up on that john and come back to this general election idea that you had mentioned in your opening statement now boris johnson it said if in fact it's a long extension he will maybe want to go through with

a general election but apparently his party is very divided so what's your assessment 1st of all on where the tories stand and then we're going to talk a little bit about labor so basically the conservative party thinks it could win a general election it's 10 percentage points ahead of the labor party in the opinion polls boris johnson is more popular than jeremy colvin the labor party leader but the conservatism nervous because they were also 10 pin points ahead in the opinion polls back in 2017 and look what happened there because jeremy tobin course up then we've to resume a bit then conservative leader is also the case that many conservatives want to get brakes it done and say that get prices and 1st and then have a general election because the population will infanticide having managed to get britain out of the european union because there is that gentleman waiting in the wings knowledge will for all of the worry well known member of the european parliament who will come roaring back he will essentially say this brics deal that boris johnson is negotiated that's not a real bright sit we want a real and radical brights it out and out now some fears that he would new support

to the brics policy and that might allow opposition parties in and so that's the reason for the nervousness winter is also coming and no one really likes doing election campaigns in november and december when it's rainy and cold and unpleasant and that might also mean that election turnout may also be down so it would be a very very strange election but ultimately only ballance i still think the conservatives will go for that because they see the weakness of the labor party and where does labor play out in all of this we heard now that jeremy corbyn is saying yes he might want to go on a go ahead with a general election what would likely be the result. it's for labor i think it could be disastrous he seems to be getting into the detail of that with just days nobody wants to hear any detail any more it's a binary decision brags that now yes no and he's saying this deal that has been negotiated is worse than trees amazed that it would undermine workers' rights and

so on in the u.k. because britain might want to sort of undercut the rest of the european union and becomes a competitive singapore in the thames but this is he's getting into detail at the end of the day people trust german core and i think the answer is really no and there's been this terribly damaging thing about the summit but on the summit as within the labor party labor party's been consuming itself i mean it almost doesn't need an opposition party like the tories it's fighting itself i don't really know how to try to a proposition labor is at the moment this leader but of course that's for the bridge voters to decide that labor but now has a relatively clear position it says it wants a 2nd year referendum it's taken labor 3 years to come to a relatively clear position so ultimately if you want britain to remain in the european union you can have relatively safely vote for either labor all the little democrats or the greens always cultures national party whichever might have the best chance in the constituency in which you live that might save them but a 2nd referendum 2 years ago perhaps by the fence enthusiasm at this stage even

friends of mine who want to say in the european union they say even they are saying get frags it done which is a classic tory populists expression clearly the outcome of any vote would depend on public opinion and as as we're hearing opinion in britain is increasingly polarized let's hear the voices some of those who went onto the streets just this past week to speak out. a bit abrasive a lot i'm always going on and. we don't want people in. the majority as we operate in. a lot of these are terrible deal for the country and it's a terrible deal for the poorest people in the country. as a bridge here i'm disgusted with those delays. bush wants to push through for. a way that we can have a say on a just for straightness road race are great people to be going to close out or for

which of course it's not the way we're through fall through to score political toward. the battle lines are drawn to what do is to be joined to britain want. let's get ventilating to tell us that what the majority in britain want and given the level of polarization that we see there would a new election resolve anything at all. well it would give boris johnson probably a far a mandate because remember he's not elected he's never been elected to the post of prime minister and at the moment the mood in the country seems to be that seems to be that the majority that he would get a majority if you will have elections tomorrow so he's of course keen on that because it would strengthen him and strengthen his hold on paul. and if he did get a majority is there any chance that he would back out of this deal that

the european research group the hard line breaks of 2 years possibly would gain more influence that they could use to push through a kind of a no deal solution would you is there any chance we'd see some kind of radical development like that i think that's unlikely because although it's not a good idea in the bars johnson is afraid and he's worried about the chaos that could ensue with a new direction he's he's intelligent enough and pragmatic enough to know how dangerous it is and they could have not quite a civil war but i mean really chaotic scenes in britain so he's very keen to avoid at all this grandstanding and saying you know rather die that it only all the stuff that he's been saying was just to apply more pressure order to get a deal done he always wanted an agreement i'm i'm quite certain of that derek. we talked about the majority of the and what they want in britain but. where do people in scotland and ireland stand it has often been said that one of the terrible side

effects of brecht's it could be essentially breaking apart the united kingdom do you think that is where we're heading what are people in ireland in scotland saying now you know what people in ireland were you know there's no good breaks it but of all the breaks the deal is this is this is fine we just agree on this what was just the current break the deal because the primary achievement of the irish government in dublin was no border that the status quo for the last 20 years was preserved but there's a big asterisk beside that and that asterisk is that all this technical stuff of trade and collecting tyrus and in northern ireland we actually don't know how trade will work between the british isles and future so there's a big if when will this actually work and on the other hand people unarmed are wondering eventually people annoying i would realise have gotten the court quite a sweetheart deal if it works but then the question is why didn't the scots get a move already seen those coming out and so so the only intend to love and intended consequences could be that we kept the border open between northern ireland on the

republic but what happens if scotland gets up some momentum and this is like the steroids that the nationalists in scotland have been needed to break away so you know we could have saved our the broken of the u.k. . on our neighbor island so yeah knows where it's going. next to john there is a palpable sense longing for resolution we heard max say and there's a that's the case in brussels we heard people in that film talking about their wish for yes resolution yet experts are saying that even if a breck's it deal goes through let's say by the end of the year or early next year there will still then be another chapter of wrangling of uncertainty surrounding trade because. britain will then have to very quickly negotiate new bilateral trade agreements with the e.u. its biggest trading partner and with its long 4 partner the us is that process

truly going to be as difficult and painful as what we've seen along the brics that it will probably be even worse although maybe it won't have quite the kind of public sort of debate it's going to be much more time consuming and much more complex than what we've seen so far and the idea should be that the framework for that deal should even be in place by the end of 2020 so just over 12 months from now which is impossible to achieve so ultimately we might get over this deadline now but we've got another deadline coming up in just over 12 months which is going to have to probably itself be extended and also if we look at for example it took the european union 7 years to negotiate a trade deal with canada and that was about much more minimal issues and britain is going to have to negotiate a trade deal with the european union so we're going to be looking at something of upwards of 5 years to get everything sorted out for the trade deal between the u.k. and the european union if you're tired of bret's it the best way is to say

essentially hold a 2nd referendum and stay and then lease to the sort of could if waiting for the next deadline will go away if you actually go through with this now and this is only the 1st of a series of deadlines which are going to be coming up in the next few years so maybe it won't be the topic of every discussion so much more but this is going to be a nightmare for a decade for the u.k. if they do see this through let's see whether either of your fellow guests think that that could really still be an option referendum and backing away from rex it at all then dealing can you even imagine that that could still be an option i agree with eric i think that is highly unlikely by now i think it was a time let's say he ago when there was a lot of momentum for a 2nd referendum and the economist in favor of that because we argued that the 1st time they people really didn't know what they were voting on so so. we thought with a heavy heart because normally one obviously must respect the results of a referendum we thought a 2nd referendum is

a good idea but i think by now the time was it's too late so that window of opportunity has closed and i think it's highly unlikely that derek in no way john's argument is premised on people voting on the basis of facts and projections and the clear but help it's between costs and benefits of bracks it looks like it probably will be negative for great britain to put it mildly yet that's really not what people are deciding on the basis of is it are we looking at something that has become as we saw in the film absolutely emotional i think it always was emotional it's always been a very deep need it's a struggle within the british soul who are we are we part of something bigger are we better off alone and the detail is just distracting us and you can really see it as you know living in our own we know the british quite well probably about another people in europe because of our interesting history but i find it really telling that nobody in britain really if any other country in europe held up

a continent for 3 years i think some people would be embarrassed prop some people be ashamed some people might apologize they feel that they can do this for another 3 years perhaps and i don't know if the rest of europe is really interested would be more extensions and talk extension the patients and so on but this notion that he even be wanted in the european union at this stage nobody in britain seems to be asking that question it's one thing to say we'd like to stay does anyone else really want them at this stage because if they stay there would be effectively of political civil war in the country they will not be very productive european union members on the other side if they go occur and bearing in mind that there is a majority of the british population that wants to remain we saw more than 1000000 people on the streets of london just a week ago all being the case for remain in the european union unfolding a 2nd referendum 60000000 not yet. yeah i know but you're not going to get a 1000000 leavers going out demonstrating and there's never been a group that kind of groundswell of support you've got the biggest grassroots pro

your movement of any european country is in the u.k. just now. today you might argue but bear in mind however there is no deal that you can get through the current house of commons because there is no majority for anything the only majority of it is for anything is against no deal and so ultimately what's your way of looking all of this you try to look at it through parliamentary means over the last 3 years that's ultimately failed a new election may unlock it but again as we've discussed it may not so ultimately the solution if you really can bear with it is essentially to say a new election remain parties try to manage to organize as best they can to try to at least deny the conservatives a majority and then you move forward to a 2nd referendum some point in the middle of 2020 because it might not be no use for the european union but it's definitely the east west out this assumes the we didn't have the detail back then and the whole purpose of a 2nd referendum is if people knew the details they will vote differently people are not going to read the details aren't as a controversial end and people go and vote and referendums and european treaties

and we ask them what they're voting on they haven't read anything right so we're assuming people who will now that they have to detail will will willingly make themselves more informed than before but we've had 3 or 4 years of poise and they're just going to vote with their gut like this is the last time you know. based on current opinion polls they will vote to remain but very tightly and again back into the starlight but again that the other alternative putting britain out with an inadequate deal and with all of the tensions that we've discussed about a lot of it is also about solutions so ultimately you've got to choose the least worst solution here and the least worst solution remains an election followed by by reference so that delayed let me get you to weigh in here and i'm going to come back to our title because. i'm going to ask all of you to answer that title question can westminster seal a deal is the title question john in a way is saying no where do. you stand and if you say yes when and what's it going to look like oh go. to the point so yes i think westminster can

strike at the end it's not going to be a good deal it's not going to be pretty but i think i think we are now may be on the way of doing nothing when this the big question i think the most likely deadline now is to 31st of january they are going to ask for an extension and then . but i mean with the big question mark but that at the moment i think is the most likely. so my answer is yes it can strike a deal and the most likely that line is the 31st of. unfortunately i breaks my heart to say it but the your opinion has more important things not discussed than britain and britain's problems need to be solved in britain so i say we're having hard go with god but go and when when will it happen most of all because then we can get back to what's really important the european union's future in the world trying to battle between populist trying to battle what's what's our security use your water our migration policies what kind of your do we want britain has been distracting us from. and in other words you're saying westminster will seal the

deal and fair well. we might want to apologize for wasting our time for 3 years but i don't expect out of college and a lot of good talk shows haven't we john last word to you are you saying westminster won't seal a deal westminster once this westminster this composition the house of commons won't seal a deal it needs a general election after the general election you get to deal because boris johnson is strengthened britain is on the track to a 2nd round. ok thanks very much to all of you will see his prediction comes true and thanks to you out there for joining in see you again on to the point.

the be. the be. the bad. the be. the be.

the be. obliged to the oceans belong to the fisherman abed the member for their livelihood. corporations just now to make money. the bug local struggle for control is on the way the consequences from each other could be devastating. grabbing new laws of the sea. in 15 minutes on d.w. . earth

home to millions of species a home worth saving. google ideas tell stories of creative people and innovative projects around the world ideas the protect the climate boost clean energy solutions and reforestation. using interactive content to inspire people to take action global ideas the series of global 3000 on t.w. and online. luxury behind the mirror humans are exploited and animals cruelly slaughtered big brands have committed to fair working conditions and sustainable production but who is monitoring the subcontractors and investigative documentary goes to the elite and china and most behind the glamorous facades of

fashion house a luxury behind the mirror starts november 5th on d w. where i come from we have to fight for a free press i was born and raised in a military dictatorship attests one to the shadow and if you newspaper as an official information as a journalist i have work off the strengths of many cantors and their problems are all the same 14 the social inequality a lack of the freedom of the press and corruption we can afford to stay silent when it comes to the defense of the human see the microphones who have decided to put their trust in us. my name is in paris and i work at the top of the.

cut. this is news live from berlin a die level for nato what to do about turkey collaborating with russia. at nato headquarters defense ministers of faced with one of their own turkey suddenly patrolling northern syria together with a nato atmosphere in russia can be alliance endured this major test of its unity and also coming up.