her youth as a child. some residents are suspicious of refugees in the neighborhood. and americans curious about the bar's regulars. across the road worlds apart. starting november 11th on d.w. . are you saying that people use violence you know out of control well i don't believe they're out of control nobody forces you to break the law to the government party so i think it's probably kong's pro-democracy movement imagined it had the unqualified support of the international community it had better think again the british government has slammed what it called a hard core of demonstrators warning rebel violence was unacceptable and had to stop my guest this week here in berlin is joey sue a pro-democracy activist and spokes person for a number of student unions in hong kong shouldn't her movement now except that it's

time to make a deal with the hong kong government before that truth becomes impossible. choice to welcome to conflicts on kashmir if it's room for the hong kong police to use violence why is it right for the demonstrators to use. well 1st of all i don't think the level of as used by prato sorry based on de intention to attack anybody i believe the intention of using followers is only to protect ourselves because saying that the police had been beating a protest. without a reason when the police are you saying they are returning it yes but they do more than return down to october 20th we have a group of hardcore protesters throwing petrol bombs at the station police station doubles in retaliation we can only a one protest a stud a policeman with

a bomb scatter we have a homemade bomb which went off on the roadside by the grace of god didn't hurt anybody or killing people is that kind of violent i'm talking about well what's the justification well i believe the justification is because when potus realized that peaceful demonstrations the marchers are no longer useful in calling the government to respond to have to demands i believe that's why there's a reason why did trying to use violence to express their anger expressed their theory and suggest a police force and because round of violence who took them round yes and i agree that in all means we should try to use peaceful means to. respond for the government and i believe to use age of violence would not be the resolution of force into government to respond to our demands are you saying the people who use violence now out of control well i don't believe they're out of control because one

of your fellow protesters to the london financial times last month he's called mark he's 17 years old he said i feel like we can't restrain ourselves anymore the hatred towards police is growing stronger and stronger can't restrain ourselves that sounds very much and movement which is getting out of control. i believe that is so only some individual cases i believe on the on coming ground that most of the protesters are still doing doing things on based on the reason for example like dave vandalized n.p.r. stations they vandalized those restaurants or other shops that are related to chinese funded companies because it will come a little. too but the measures here but some of you leading figures awarded by the violence and johnson young and was an organizer of the 2014 umbrella movement he said every stakeholder should take action immediately if we don't want the violence to escalate to a point where the only in public but why don't you stand up and so enough with the

world well i believe one of the principle amount of this about mostly taking and no condemning any of our products is even though. the level of violence they use ours seems to be like ask a lady and might be posing some harms to the others so you move to almost chinese communist party unity that's vital for you and that is the remark you can talk nobody can dispute what we do argue and we do discuss about our actions and even even after those found allies asians we've got some discussions online on the online forums about and we do reflections of on on our actions so i believe there are those around and still goes on who can stop it who can or do it to stop well i believe nobody can try to stop it unless it is so it's out of control and if nobody can stop it alas when the unless when the younger generation is sent to get that

they're willing to stand there with together with the older generation for example like so far like student leaders together with some so they can leaders from the pro-democracy side when. when these leaders try to stand up together and say now we have to do something peaceful and to stop the phallus i believe that might be. the might be a way to stop the violence and the other thing got zones pretty tentative so it's pretty thin and pretty difficult once the train is rolling nobody seeing in your group can stop it that's that's dangerous and yes i agree so that's why we had been organizing peter marches and rallies to to try to switch the to try to switch the tactics that we're using on a platter saying to cover it government to respond to our demands and i believe everybody in the society has been working very hard for example that we are organizing general strikes we have been organizing class boycotting campaigns

because we would like to try to explore other place or means so that we don't have to do is vasant if in the meantime you should god forbid killing the body and innocent possibility or us or a policeman your movements finished and you international support will evaporate over the us i agree and i am prepared to take the risk and you won't come out in public and say we need to stop this the british government has slammed last week has slammed what it called the hard core minorities the violence was unacceptable this is the sound of you international support wavering and and believing the reason that. yes well i believe the escalation of thousands and those violent scenes is my with absolutely be very concerning to the international society when all the free world countries are advocating using peace whole means to. bring the

situation to a tree result but the trillions you are going to for already doesn't matter. well of course that matters but i think the most important thing is about how can we hold our government accountable and how can we bring them to respond to our demands what about the judiciary you've heard criticism from judicial institutions in hong kong pretty heavy criticism. these are the bodies enjoy considerable respect around the world for the impartiality and if you are losing them this is a really bad sign for the law society for instance of all forms of unlawful violence particularly against the police the use of petrol bombs against the police as well as the apparent attacks on the families of police officers and bullying of the children at school. who proof of those methods bullying the children of police officers that school well i don't agree with those math that's best deal with. it

and so you don't agree with the violence and you don't agree with the bullying of the children doesn't sound as though there's much you agree with that you'll stay silent anyway now we had the f a k thing using piece i mean for example like peaceful rallies marches to to express our concerns and demands and but the point is that we do not publicly condemn those actions but still we try to use our peaceful means to use our own peaceful means to try to switch the tactic of those using intimidation mafia style and intimidation we have a report of one teenage daughter of an officer being harassed by another out while she was playing sport they said what your father is doing is disgusting since when have children responsible for the actions of their parents. well 1st off i don't thing any family members of those police officers should be responsible for their own disgusting actions and i made you're making them responsible some of your

people are making responsible bullying them harrison well i believe that is happening but. after or when the law society says it's happening yes i can deny that it is actually happening but still we are trying to use play so tactics to to bring the situation to a resolution and i believe like bullying family members would not be a very good way to solve the situation the hong kong bar association so do the hong kong airport constituted serious struction and was in open defiance of junctions granted by the courts in other words you broke from the war do you want to live in the street governed by the rule of law or only the moves that you like of course i would like to live in a state of law however we can see that it is very obvious that the situation of where our flying home county is being broken not by the protesters but by the government itself 1st and i believe that's why protesters are marching on the

street are taking onto the streets even though they know that it would break the law and i believe this is something you know that the most important is to fight to protect the rule of law in hong kong and judicial independence but you're trashing it at the same time well i believe breaking the law to protect to the law doesn't because well it is the government that forces us to take on the streets and to break the laws it is not a particularly influences you know very forces you to break the law or do that the government far as i set it up to me that's your interpretation but here here are these judicial institutions rule boarding you that criminal contempt as they put it impedes the administration of justice and the fun checked will inflict grave and represent damage to the rule of law in hong kong grave and irreparable damage that's what they think you are doing to hong kong. the mental

well of course that matters but as i have mentioned what matters to most of us about whether we can actually bring a change to our political structure and government structure and that would be to come and go and would be the most important goal for us to achieve for. this moment and i believe even forward the department of justice is self as in being totally independent for now after the handover of hong kong from their british government to the chinese government we can see that our core values are traditional where systems being encroached by the chinese government we can see from to rescind prosecutions that the department of justice is only prosecuting in putting those processes on court while they are at you still have independent judges you still have independent courts while. in terms of system they are independent however we can see that they're actually being very heavily influenced by the

chinese government and that they're sidestepping this of for example like the 21st you're not 21st or light year long cases they're not prosecuting they're not taking any you have to try it straight to the court while they have been political prosecuting so many of the protesters and some of those across accused decisions joe issue if you have a son down with the government and hold a dialogue who talks to you also who could who could also rise compromises that are essential in the kind of political dialogue who in your movement could actually sit down and authorize compromises i believe nobody could represent our movement because as you know. done with you you're not opening doors your closing doors when we are going origin you just said nobody to go through a compromise is really considered a room for you represent you well back in history of not supposed to talk to well back in june the chief executive kerry has tried to approach to several student you

this in hong kong and we had rejected her offer because she requested a private meeting with only some of this didn't you know hong kong which which is not even representing all the students in hong kong it would be a start wouldn't it it would have been a start it won't be a start it will only be a end to our movement because back in 2014 we see that caroline tried to talk to some of the student leaders some of the leaders of the umbrella revolution however what we got our after the dialogue was that. was to crackdown after our movement and then carolyn did not fear any of her any of her promises in the dialogue and we felt like especially in this leaderless movement it's very important for us to have a public dialogue with as many stakeholders in a society as possible at least we cannot only have the student activists talking to kerry land ok we have to think that are there stakeholder you put forward 5

principle demands of the hong kong government you and your fellow activists the government is only addressed one of them which was the extradition bill which they withdrew. but in fact according to professor of nor the 1st day of hong kong the government responded to all of your demands just not in the way that you wanted you wanted an independent investigation into police handling of the riots you didn't get that but you didn't get nothing no that the independent police complaints council appointed 5 overseas experts from britain canada australia and new zealand didn't get everything but they did respond well i believe what are we calling for is not only a official demand for official response from kerry lam what we are asking for is about a concrete action by the hong kong government we're asking them to respond to our demands by taking actual actions for somebody to invited these experts from from britain canada australia new zealand i believe that is not was surprising for you know it's not exactly what you wanted but it's something we are asking for an

independent commission of inquiry to investigate into police brutality however for the independent police commission it is followed by most of the men can support us how can we trust them how is that how nobody can put it i can't trust you overseas experts from britain canada they're all stand by to see me at least not the ones who make decisions to have done change you also want all charges dropped against protesters who've been arrested and they've turned down. but how could they do anything else if your if you were found to broken the law you should be punished the same way as the police shouldn't you so why are they why are you above the law so why aren't they punishing the police they have in the past police have been hauled into court punished we cannot even identify the police because they are not showing their warrants because they are not showing their numbers when we cannot hold the police accountable when nobody can actually punish the police how come to

count on government this could be charging our creditors with rioting even though they are only participating in some peaceful marches those that it's not reasonable . to yourselves equal before the nor will the body else do we are equal before the law so why do you should you get an amnesty one if you've broken the law and the hong kong bar association the hong kong society seem to indicate that you have broken the law to be punished for breaking the law while i believe r.c. for amnesty would be the best of the would be the best resolution to think she was up to her and hotter way of law in hong kong yes which wants to yes we want but of the same time many want an amnesty you want to escape punishment for breaking the law i would not say that in the society that you want to live in i would not say that is trying to escape from being punished when we have broken the law i believe the reason why predecessor taken onto the streets is because. we want

a government to be accountable to us we want a government to give concrete actions as much to our demands and i believe that's why we are participating in peaceful marches lawful marches ever since june however the government the police have been accusing us has been arresting us for rioting and the reason why directing us is not reasonable at all how can they charge us so that's why we're asking all of carbon to some of some of your other actions in the book when it comes to the future the worry seems to be that you don't have much of a plan do you except to keep fighting you said recently i have no idea how these protests will end or even what will happen tomorrow we feel like there is no way back so we must keep fighting as if you're a passenger in this movement but you're not a passenger in this movement you're one of the spokes people for this movement on to isn't it time you took responsibility for the well i think definitely are should

be taking some of the responsibilities off finding the way out for hong kong for the whole movement but the fact is when the situation hunger is like changing in a very. in a very lightnings beat every day we did not see our future we do not even know what would be happening the next day back in june back in july we did not expect the government to be exercising its emergency powers don't have a plan of where to go do we want from saying we want all our demands met in the fall the only plan you have been to france it we do have a we do have a plan we are very clear that we have to rethink about our we have to rethink about the future of hong kong we have to think about a 2047 debt light and i believe that is the consensus among congress other than the 5 demands we are trying to discuss we are trying to have discussions amount

different stakeholders in hong kong about our future after 2047 but at stake is not just your fate and your fellow protesters but millions of other people who live in hong kong who are going to have to live with the fallout from your movement and from your movements actions for many years and you may be happy to bring china's rules down on your head but to collapse the roof on everybody else's head in hong kong is that really a responsibility you want to you're prepared to take well 1st of all i thing the majority of hungers are still in support of the movement and i believe most of us are quite clear that and i'm getting prepared that was we are failing to move on or ones like. to china's communist government would be using 1000 tactics to end the protests we are very clear that what the aftermath would be and i believe the majority of hong kong like to take the risk in or there too you know that in this change of the better future of hong kong but don't you have

a responsibility to try and find a way back which preserves and strengthens what you already have instead of risking a crackdown in which you could lose everything i believe we do or i mean for the act of democracy politicians we do have to a responsibility but after all i think their greatest responsibility is to hong kong government south and this is a project of the moment the british government calls for a meaningful dialogue between parties with a credible political tract to protect the rights and freedoms set out in hong kong's basic law are you capable of opening a meaningful dialogue from what you've told me so far you know or tell you what i believe the 1st criteria of having a sincere and meaningful dialogue would be the hong kong government itself trying to be sincere well the last time when they were in fact the student unions to the dialogue they're trying to have it privately they're not willing to make it public and to invite other stakeholders and even when they're trying to be light hearted

come back to that point it could have been the start how could have been a start when they're not being sincere we do not believe that would be any kind of meaning for consensus made in a dialogue when they're trying to wrest our fellow when they're trying to put us in jail how can we believe that there would be meaning for a sincere dialogue at least they have to stop their prosecutions 1st i mean not forever but the alice have to show some sincerity. some sincerity people are worried that you're becoming increasingly rigid and inflexible drones of chain who lead a coalition of pro-democracy groups and 24 to no one ever do is to say think about it or accept it anyone who does so will be severely attacked we come to a consensus we stick to that position and we cannot shift is that the way you would be able to start negotiations this rigid in flexibility you're in danger of

becoming just as inflexible as believed in him to i believe that this question about the future of hong kong are how difficult it would go if this is like mushrooming especially in the recent days when we see that there has been an accolade of violence while we're not achieving anything we're not forcing the government to respond i believe there had been more in my discussions and where i and i believe that like peaceful means would be the only way out for us to resolve the city current situation in hong kong primarily inspired a group of your protests that have been beating up people who just think differently september the 15th we had a group of beat up a 49 year old hong kong man beating monk conscious because he did to challenge what the group was doing charles you turn remonstrated with your fellow activists to the love china i'm chinese but they beat him up unconscious had to go to hospital he was in critical condition when he arrived but he survived is that the way you deal

with people who think differently from me. well of course that there will not be the very ideal way i do you could you don't even condemn it where did i condemn any kind of you have any one suppose then if you're not going we don't have to answer posts inhuman treatment like this you can't even look me in the face and say i condemn this kind of in human treatment where we're not doing any kind of public undamaged. still we are trying to detect takes to a more peaceful way one of the violent schools businesses that are seen as unsupported hope how do you emerge in your protecting democracy by trashing a.t.m. machines and starbucks. how does that help you preserve democracy while i believe protestors are vandalizing underground stations vandalizing those chinese stone companies for a reason because they will like to bring actual harm to those companies so that so

that because they don't support you it is not about they don't support us as it is about they are not why it won't for themselves they have to have their windows smashed in have to have their a.t.m. machines trashed because they just don't think so moves you do and you want to preserve democracy. well i believe that would definitely not be the best way however if they're doing that for a reason and they're not i mean they're trying to be rational and that's why we're not trying to condemn them publicly but still we do have the factions we do have discussions about this vandalize asians and there have been more and more voices about that we should actually try to explore a some peaceful way so you're treating poet in the local council elections not you personally but on the ground who for 450 candidates from the pro-democracy group are you willing to switch your return ssion from demonstrations and violence to

politics to the slow painstaking often tedious business of politics in order to make hong kong work better for its inhabitants are you willing to do politics instead of just demonstrations why i believe the 2 things have to go parallel because well about politics when we've got pro-democracy activists trying to get into the institutions we're trying to change to government structure by. by a democratic way by elections and at the same time we have to continue our projects so that we can put pressure on the hong kong government of south and i believe the 2 things are not contradict contradictory and that's why we have to make it go parallel and i don't believe that. we have to put all of our attention all of our focus on district council elections and try to stop any kaiser protesting but i believe that protests have to be in a peaceful way so it's you it's been good to have your complete so thank you for.

coming. to the point to strong opinions are some good positions international perspectives. 30 years since the fall of the bowling balls germany some are bracing for the movement. changed with dismay many in eastern germany say they've been left behind and feel like 2nd class citizens so what's going wrong if i don't want to the point shortly. in 90 minutes on d w. earth plane home

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place. to. play. this is v.w. news a live from nato is divided the french president warns the alliance is facing brain death but germany's chancellor rejects my crohn's claim that europe can no longer rely on the u.s. to defend its allies we'll get reaction from washington also coming up. and go on the streets of the.