website that's dot com. whistleblowers to some they're heroes to others they're traitors tonight you'll meet katharine gunn the british woman whose leak could have averted the war in iraq and landed her in prison neither of the 2 happened as impeachment hearings against the u.s. president are set to begin made possible by a whistleblower last katherine gunn how does she see it do whistleblowers help clean up the system or do they reveal just how dirty it really is golf in berlin this is the day. it really is the height of irresponsibility so-called whistle blows i call it the fake with the big boy the president would love to punish the whistle for the president's comments and actions so the whistleblower says it is great to our

country have jeopardized the whistleblowers safety whistleblowers should be allowed to remain confidential i say good night to the media. and print is. also coming up in spain a crisis of governments and a crisis of identity for elections in 4 years and still no clear answers from the voters as a big change in the political landscape i think that at that an issue has been very much a boat with its threat to this baby and id is something that betty movie for many many people. went to our viewers on p.b.s. in the united states and all around the world welcome what we begin the day with what you find when impeachment happens in washington protests are happening in iraq and there's a movie based on a true story with all of those words the answer is the whistleblower this week for

only the 4th time in u.s. history. public impeachment hearings called by house speaker nancy pelosi and against the president will begin it was a whistleblower report that made even the thought of in peaching president trump possible and it comes at the same time that violent deadly protests continue in iraq angry crowds demanding that the state finally provide basic services such as electricity and they're also calling for an end to corruption in government some see iraq's current crisis and they point to the u.s. led war in 2003 a war that we know today was sold to the international community with wide eyes some of those winds were exposed by a british woman named katherine gun and she was unable to prevent the war but her actions have been called the most important and courageous of all leaks i'll speak with katherine gun in just a moment but 1st her story which is now a movie entitled official secrets. the u.s.

and britain wanted to attack iraq with the support of a u.n. resolution when the u.s. struggled to get support the country's national security agency asked british intelligence to try and win over 6 uncommitted nations on the security council and h a h e c h q katherine gun received the directive but didn't agree eventually she had it sent to britain's observer newspaper which then revealed the plan on march 4th 2003 . that caused the scandal in britain and beyond. simply understand i'm not going to comment on the operations of our security services but i do say this we act in accordance with the mystic and international law and we act in the best interests of this country and all security services are a vital part of the protection of this country a couple of weeks later the americans british and other coalition forces then decided to attack iraq without the backing of

a resolution after giving vader saddam hussein and ultimatum. at this hour american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger. tens of thousands of people were killed and wounded in the fighting before hussein's regime was toppled one month later but violence persists in iraq to this day from terrorist bombings to writing against the government. catherine gun was eventually arrested and faced a possible long sentence behind bars her story has since been made into a new movie and the film is called official secrets and stars keira knightly to speak if you do not and you are found to have with no information of any kind you will be charged with

a breach of the. and the subject of that new film official secrets is katherine gunn she is with me here at the big table 1000 it's good to have you on the program and daniel ellsberg the pentagon papers leaker says that what you did your leaking i'm quoting here was the most important and courageous leak that the world has ever seen in part because you almost diverted the war. do you agree with him. as a high praise from a man who has done so much over the areas. to campaign for issues around. transparency and open ness and so yes i'm you know his has actually a friend of mine and he's been a great supporter of. many whistleblowers out of a is so that's a great ana many was a blowers there are there's daniel ellsberg there's the u.s.

army soldier bradley manning there's the former n.s.a. contractor edward snowden do you see yourself. in that group or do you differentiate. your list those names would you say that we have to differentiate there. i think in our it's important that whistleblower is a protected. and i think in a just society whistleblowers should be able to go to court if it's necessary and present their case without retaliation. and if that case stands up in a court of law if it's a fast system whereby they do have a defense under the law such as a public interest defense that they have that opportunity to present that case to court and determine whether their actions were indeed in the public interest on not and i think you know it stands up in court it should be allowed to stand up in court that will supersede that you take

a meeting for example when you've joined the g.c. age 2 you took a pledge you know i signed the official secrets act which is a promise that you're not to leak. what is it a secret or high level. it's actually a promise that you must never discuss anything asshole basically it's a blanket coverage and they so there's nothing there's no scrap of information there's nothing that you can discuss outside of just with anybody who has not signed the official 2nd nondisclosure that's an agreement it's completely orning compassing. if as i say it's a blanket coverage a draconian piece of legislation that has no defense under the law so if you if you do see something which is criminal illegal. fraudulent. there is no defense there is nothing you can do an order to bring that information

out for the public to decide for themselves or to see what's going on with the u.s. whistleblower law that protects the whistleblower in even keeps the identity anonymous if he does the the right approach. i think if there is the danger retaliate in which that often has been you know if it is sane to be it often the case that whistleblowers are retaliated against if the by the. organizational their company then in some instances i think it should be anonymous but i think we need to move beyond this we need to move beyond. a place where whistleblowers a seen as extraordinary and we need to move in a direction where bringing information to the public which is necessary for the public to know what is going on behind the scenes that should be seen as something to be sort of protected and respected and given proper

in the court of law rather than for instance in the u.s. where most of the cases now are being treated with the espionage act which and intelligence circles has absolutely nothing to do with the public interest defense either you or well aware that this is a moment in whistleblower history in the united states it was a board has helped to bring on presidential impeachment hearings that start this week what do you make of what's happening there. unfortunately i haven't really been able to keep. abreast of the situation in the u.s. because it's constantly changing. and i think it's too much a key to really say what really is going on there's a lot of his say and. it's not a clear picture yet so i think until the kara picture it's it's difficult to

comment a lot of the rhetoric about whistleblowers coming from the white house today sounds like what we heard coming from number 10 downing street and tony blair back in 2003 take a listen. it's very tempting to see people who want to talk about the work of ah security services as so-called whistleblowers or people simply in favor of open information but i tell you our security services particularly today particularly with global terrorism as it is perform an absolutely vital task on behalf of this country many of their people work in circumstances a very great danger and it really is the height of irresponsibility to expose them to this type of public questioning and scrutiny in a way that can do absolutely no good to the security of this country so that when the hour is a great you are got a great deal with so far because the that the real. lawyer.

said the worst thing possible 3 years ago. and maybe braised. and you know you see the similarities there but you what we heard from tony blair height of irresponsibility because lives were put in danger of a point. at. yeah i mean it's it's extraordinary to listen to him quite frankly because he took our country the best person to war on a lie hey put hundreds of thousands of british military men and women's lives at risk in fact 179 british military personnel were killed in iraq. and many countless small wounded. i mean it and frankly it's the heights of. now i mean to suggest that it's the height of

irresponsibility to put people in harm's way i mean i think really he should turn the tables on himself and ask himself the same question if you turned yourself in you were charged with breaking the official sea secrets act we've got a clip here from the interrogation in the film and is which is based on what you did was take a look at this. with respect with. you're a spy. yes you get information from people's phones and computers and you feed that . c.s. you eavesdrop on private conversation yes and now you're upset to being asked to do that to members of the security code to detect if. i didn't object to being asked to connect information that could help prevent a terrorist attack. which they object to is being to get the intelligence to help fix a vote at the u.n. and deceive the world into go into war. incredibly

compelling seeing they are. the reviews for this who have been very good at putting it in the same league as the movie all the president's men reviewers have called you the hero in this film are you a hero. i don't feel heroic i'm you know i'm a person i think how much of ordinary boring. sort of person. but what i did was i felt necessary to bring information to the into the public arena and you know i've argued this in the past but i do feel more more so as time goes on that under the circumstances i did what i thought was right i did my job which was to to reveal information that i felt was. revealing what was going on that was illegal. the journalists did their job they verified them from ation and then they published it even though it was against actually

their own editorial angle on the paper so we provided that information to the into the public domain and there were m.p.'s in britain who were against the wall. and they voted in and parliament against the war although they were and the minority. i still would like to ask them and none of them have oncet this question or even come forward to discuss these issues with myself or motm by the journalist but why did they not take this piece of information to tony blair at the time and say when this was absolutely crucial a crucial moment in history. tell us what's going on tony what is this piece of information hair on the front pages of the tell us what's going on why are we trying to subvert the vote and get a u.n. resolution for war. you know and despite all public pronouncements it's

a point to your point right there we've heard many times also in the breaks at the debate people asking why the lawmakers come clean about what breaks it really means but the story goes on. it's a pleasure meeting. you taking the time to talk with us tonight and we look forward to your film official secrets thank you coming out next week next week thank you very much. former bolivian president evo morales has accused his country's opposition of staging a coup morale is resigned as president on sunday amid pressure from the opposition . you may remember declared victory in the disputed presidential election back in october that triggered weeks of protests the capital of pause unrest overnight following the announcement from around us buses were burned and there were reports

of looting raul is a step down after 14 years as president leaving a sudden power vacuum in the country. let's bring in d.w. correspondent johan ramirez who is standing by for us in the libyan capital of pods good evening to you so we know that nearly everyone from the alice is government has resigned so 'd do we know who is in charge in bolivia today. yes after these waves off a resignations nobody. i knew is the former vice president off the congress and now president of the congress should take over the power on and entering the. she's but the problem is that to do so she needs the congress should meet to accept . a resignation letter was to supposed to happen today but they think they couldn't meet today because of all the problems that have been happening in this city on in

the whole country last night we had a a a really it's. going to hold seats in the whole country so that's why they couldn't meet today he is scheduled to meet again tomorrow and then they should accept this letter before that she can not take power so in this moment there is no president there is no one in the head of the executive but this head continues to function through their ministries and other public instances in the in the long term that's a good point because they're getting a report too that the military have said that it will guarantee that public services continue to function at least in the near term what message do you think all of this sin is to the rest of latin and south america especially to venezuela cuba and also chile. i think that this is a very important message for all the countries for all the region this sausage that

this society fire from political parties fire from the army they can do things to make things change but this is a very interesting phenomenon here because this is actually the society who have put this out of power but defend is that in other countries i mean believe it has a very strong culture of doors like trade or associations of women also sessions or farmers so they have a really up very important role in the country and that's not the case in other countries such as venice where she lay or nico i was so that's why i think here in bolivia we have this very interesting phenomenon and i don't think maybe this is like something that could spread in the region brant ok did we use your 100 mira's joining us tonight from the libyan capital of this johan thank you very much.

well the political deadlock in spain will go on prime minister pedro songes a socialist took the largest share of the vote in sunday's general election but fell short of a majority yet again the far right vox party which is vehemently opposed to catalonian independence made the biggest gains but catalan activists blocked a major border crossing between spain and france today hoping to trumpet their call this. and to them points and the kettle on government in the aftermath of sunday's elections i want to turn now to the kettle on the government's representative to germany marie it's good to have you on the show maria and i want to have you know when i ask you about these election results the far right vox party it's basically doubled its seat numbers in. parliament they are against kettle only independents so that must mean

a huge loss for your calls when we see on one hand that seal that honest party collapsed basically to 10 seats and i'm boxed party gained a lot of seats and so that's a lack of imperil a movement. of course and i think it's frightening for all of us not only for the cattleman's to see a far right frankly as party represented and as a 3rd force in the democratic parliament in spain and in europe in country in 21st century a party that is against women's rights and against. all rights it's against all these things we think it should be normal in those days and and that's the concern of us not only as a cattleman's about. the progress of spaniards many of the. former government leaders are either in spanish prisons or they're in exile outside of the

country do you know of mr porridge demoed for example so what can the kemah one government be what can you do what you do prioritize now when you have so many people so many leaders no longer they are what talks talks talks i dialogue is the only thing that the cut and i'm government wants to do and it's and that's the frightening thing as well because that debt off the sea and especially politics after the elections is the big bad luck where. somehow the lands and the spanish central government are and the last 1012 years so that's a problem and we should be able to to solve for them to go problems with dialogue and negotiations and not buy. and prison you have kings. against the spanish government in a legal case you're suing for alleged spying of your movements you

say that the spanish government has been following you watching you i mean are you are you surprised that i'm not saying the cut and the spanish government has been i'm following what i say is somebody has been following me and i say i want to know who that was big you suspect that they have been commissioned by special fora chase them indoors by some way but i well yes of course because i am a free a european citizen and i think i should be followed by anyone that if in case someone needs to know something about me could ask me frame me and. that's why i talk to my advocate and that's where we are right now you will replays let us know what happens and please come back to the program when you maybe have resolution or when there's been some advancement in your court case marie culprits

the kettle on government representative to germany re thank you very much thank you very much to you. or when you think of an animal that can offer a human emotional support what usually comes to mind dogs cats maybe or probably not a pig lilu is what is called i guess a therapy pig a sensitive swine she's part of a program that brings trained therapy animals to the airport to live spirits and to ease travel anxiety. it's just another day at work. she's part of san francisco international airports wag brigade she's not catching any flights but a person smiling to help stressed out the past and just relax. people are very

happy to get distracted from the travel from their routine whether they're flying to on their journey or location or work but everybody is usually very happy. that it seems it's not to load a whole bush there's no lipstick on this pig. just perhaps a touch of polish. and people seem to enjoy it. i've never seen one here so it's interesting because it's fun i got really excited our experience they've never seen a player play. they do tricks like a god. but leave live doesn't do just simple tricks she has a knack of bringing people together. we walk in and we find today that most people have their heads buried in their devices they are not engaged or

we walk in people start to look up they start to react they respond super positively they start to engage with each other. the program is a hit with high flyers but is it all a bit of a bore fully lose. their lives very well socialized to people. through teo and that means that she's happy. it seems everyone is happy including li lu who obviously loves holding the limelight. if they call you a pig you tell. thank you the day is almost done the conversation continues online to find us on twitter news you can follow me at brant off t.v. because he's the hash tag today every member whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day we'll see it in a. glove

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