you know let me be clear with you my how to act in ways that i feel necessary to people how to simply understand that. you can put your foot in your own defeat and chance to find the means. to terms with your son's starts december 13th on t.w. . as great power competition in africa heats up germany's chancellor says it's time for own country's firms to take a new look at the continent's economic opportunities to that end she invited heads of state from 12 african countries to berlin this week her initiative compact with africa foresees a mutually beneficial deal in african governments promote reform germany will promote investment but will the private sector play along to firms have enough trust to take the lead economic upswing in africa who really profits that's our

topic. it's. not gonna. and here to debate the risks and opportunities of germany's africa strategy is via tata she is a computer scientist with roots in cameroon and serves as the editor in chief of the magazine africa positive she says the contact with africa primarily serves the interests of western investors it's also a pleasure to welcome him on sight though them she's a human rights activists from sudan who's been living in germany since 2016 she says the investment and trade provisions should be based on partnership and not on superiority and i'm very pleased to welcome my colleague from africa desk down the pope's who has reported from numerous african countries over the past 12. he says unless african governments and international partners do their part the

poor will be left out with dire consequences. so let me ringback start with you ask you about the 1st part of our title namely economic upswing we often hear there's a lot more good news coming out of africa than the western media typically report now with a magazine entitled africa positive i guess you're trying to change that can something like this initiative the compact with africa and this conference that was held this week can they shift the narrative on africa. for the main time yet in germany if you. think. about africa has to be constantly repeated into society so that we can change. the german companies see africa development because normally now in. africa.

we eat. you know we are the nation's. economy development and i think that's a narrative that is very important because that's what is going to show the companies here or the investors here that there is a lot in this continent you know like instead of only concentrating on the raw materials and on the oil i mean we have a lot of potential if we had been little young talented an intrapreneur didn't need capital they need investment capital what from government and what form invest also foreign direct investment i think africa doesn't really address these issues yes in fact i said in your opening statement it serves the interests of western investors but it doesn't western investment generate jobs doesn't it create a climate that leads to growth but not with these initiatives in the way i see it

because if you look at it critically it focuses on like scare investment you know. most of the companies or most of the small and medium sized companies in african countries are mostly if you know and they really need a lot of capital maybe look very like they did it maybe small capital in order for them to like you know and those are the companies that are going to create jobs because the look at companies i mean when you look at africa it focuses on the big guys you know and i went to pension funds you know to invest so that they can make much more. teams and much more profit you know but we need investment that is going to at the bottom of the pyramid that is going to create more jobs in society similar to what daniel post said in his opening statement he said that we need to make sure that growth and investment benefit the poor you've been reporting as i said from africa for some years now what are the main obstacles

that in fact. hinder that from happening well i think one issue is what guidelines are in place to really make sure that the local people benefit i remember visiting a project in rural sirrah leone where a western company came and i think even backed with with funds from western development organisations to set up a plantation to produce palm oil locally but the problem is they were only hiring locals as unskilled workers and they were given a job for maybe one month for maybe 3 months and then that was it they were out of the job they were not earning salaries that were really helping them to turn their lives around to send their kids to school or maybe to invest for example by building a house and then you know paying a local company so that you see the money is actually growing and stimulating economic growth so for me it's really an issue about what guidelines do we haven't placed so the compact and the conference talked a lot about reform would you say that they do take some steps to addressing those

problems i'm very doubtful there it always sounds as if many people believe it's only a matter of bringing more private investment to africa and that it would be a self-starter i do not really see that people take this into account. you said investment and trade base must be based on mutual respect so the compact and also the conference that was just posted they are explicitly for seeing reform partnerships would you say that meets your demand i guess no because they're compact with africa strategies and policies that. very much depend on. their loans that in that we end up in empowering the african people because. we are always taking the international i also the international

organizations recipes that we have to lift this the the subsistence or or the. help on the basic needs of the of the poor people like in health sector or a deficient sector then. after years you'll find the country is having a lot of birthing of these deaths on children and we are still on the same circle of government of poverty. that's why i think compact with africa is not meeting the demands of africans rather more. contact with africa it's an investment a strategy and economical development that needs to provide chances for young people to work more jobs but when we look did this investments i've not had to think it occasion and absolutely not vocational training that is very much

needed for for for for work market and when we don't have a skill workers or we cannot mean. the demand of these markets then we need then the investors will rely on somebody from outside and that is why it opened chances for western people not for the african people and if i take that as an example although so that is not part of the. compact with africa but there is lotsof policies than this that i think has that been made specifically to sudan in my. own process and different other block process a lot of process is coming from european union stores so done but the beneficiaries not the africans or the nation the sudanese people instead these policies have being very much gronk very much a negative impact in our country let's

a little bit deeper on what the compact foresees in terms of reform partnerships one partnership with senegal was being showcased at this week's conference let's hear what leaders from both sides have to say. awesome feed them commercial whether it's about peace climate protection economic development migration or other big issues of our times we all agree that with over 50 countries and a growing population especially a young population africa is playing an important role in solving global problems. i know this because while it's become better actually you will help the government in all the stakeholders to implement reforms that will improve our ranking for the ease of doing business health not for off to africa the growth continent off the future of building our partnership on a equal footing in a win win situation for both sides feel by the. let me go to you

via tatar we heard the senegalese minister there talking about the reform partnership would you agree that a partnership like this one can in fact promote effective reform are there concrete steps that you would say they are helpful while there are some concrete steps in this initiative. but i think that's not really the problems that are really affecting the economy of many african countries that are involved in this africa we should look at the foundation of this technician of economic development in african countries and you see when you look at it critically it's also because of the. connections that most of these countries have with european countries and also if you look at like for example you see france do wrong france plays in many african countries you know we demonic leave decisions that have been taken in these

countries everything is being controlled by france so we need a lot of african countries are not independent and if a country is not independent it cannot carry out its development. decisions on its own because somebody is always involving she's also. insight so i think africans africans themselves to help in we do brick away from these changes that are preventing the african countries from developing the most important thing for me is to see how we can use our resources that we have who at value to put docks before we expect out of the continent good that will be the only way i'm going to create a lot of employment for the youths because if we don't produce what what we consume africans we are going to have the simple and these initiatives are immense that doesn't how much interest do african leaders themselves or at least many african leaders themselves really have in reform are there many who themselves profit

literally profit from perpetuating the status quo of course not only the africans that brought the thing from but pituitary of the. african nation or elongate of the sufferings of the african nations it's that the western countries are also the same thing they favor to have such kind of weak and corrupt leaders in in the top of the head of african continent that is so because of so many things that money laundering issues and so many economical big economical issues that going on. market that is also florida in africa the. i think coming back to. to her point that. we really need to look in a critical way to compact with africa if their partners the european partners really really apply that compact with africa if we're looking not only to france

france is some really quite trolling and having want to i mean a moment to the right out. and u.k. also u.k. also is having talked to us a. little bit more about african leadership itself let's not only talk about pressure from outside but let's talk about what is generated on corruption from inside ok i give you an example of done because i am coming from so that i know like. we were struggling against the bashir regime that corrupt regime that committed crimes against humanity and genocide in the country forced saw long time whenever the regime is weak with ever there is no. economy floors of money or banking or anything we got money comes from europe in such of kind of projects like simple heart don't project that the same 2 subs are 17 we had

a very good apprise people were demonstrations and they're all it's $2.00 to $2.00 to. him but it's the process has started millions of dollars millions of fumes have been invested in this government so that destabilize the system that really corrupt and that created such thing in the sufferings of africans and plus it projects that have been initiated to hinder the influx of immigrants to europe the thought process within this context lots of huge money has been getting its way to to corrupt militias and government so even if the nations the africans have the will to break down this vicious circle of of of suffer but we have to extend that fact the side effect our our will and our our

ambitions of having good governance in the contrary so daniel. i posed that question in a rather generalized way saying most african leaders but in fact there are why discrepancies are there and how the compact includes a couple of countries that are often seen as. beacon's ethiopia and rwanda on the other hand it also includes egypt which surely is not noted for its interest in breaking the status quo how do you figure that does that make sense for you but i think even the tube you can surround the and if you appear often criticised especially for the human rights record if you will p.r.'s also grappling with internal conflicts also the government has come under fire so i think these countries were chosen according to economic interests but good governance apparently was not the primary factor to determine which countries could be part of the compact with africa initiative and i think that is

a great mistake i think you also need to promote goodwill of countries would you want to include then. isn't this sort of it seems to me all of you are to some degree arguing it's all or nothing don't we need to move step by step and aren't there countries where you do see some potential for cooperation on trade and investment possibly beginning to change the dynamics or you want to have a look at yeah i don't really see that the political dynamics in these countries are changing i think it actually helps the leaders to remain in power if they have good relations with the west of development aid is flowing or if you even have a corporation in the security sector for instance as it was the case with with saddam as you mentioned i think there is even a certain danger although i understand the western interests of cooperate with these governments but i think it is also a. dangerous situation because you might help governments to to remain in power

despite a very bad human rights record so taking this to an extreme are you suggesting african countries would be better off if the flows stopped. i think that's the opinion that they always propagate because i think if african countries can concentrate on the in 10 our struggles that they have course we have a lot of indian our struggles and most of these are very complex you know because they also come from these structures that we inherited. from the outside so i think the 1st thing is we have to sit together we did our countries and maybe we we did not believe in countries and look for ways and solutions of tech and in this intense struggles and if we do then you do you're going to see that the entire african tree is going to increase because we are because we have to treat with each order we don't have to focus our mind on util you know and those are the things that i think if we start step by step solving the right problems then we wouldn't

be sitting here and talking about initiatives that are coming from europe from. china in africa no we have to settle also. still i think in the in the issue of investment if any investor would not favor to have any money in a concrete that is politically and steep and this and this the billeted this situation is very much related to the policies of the european union that's right so. i think either those people are throwing money on nothing because i don't i don't believe in sustainability of long term. projects will not be sustained for long. conditions for years. rather more there will be the selection of destruction somehow through this broad tax by the in the stability investing in war investing in militias invest in. standing that in democratic systems in our countries so all this kind of think that when

jenna reared or when not make favor other investors to let me let me bring in another short report that we have and see whether i can provoke you a little bit because it purports to tell a positive story germany launched the compact in 2017 during its presidency of the g. 20 group of industrialized and developing countries foreign investment in the partner countries to the compact has risen since then. modestly most of the increase though has gone to just 4 countries egypt morocco ethiopia and gonna let's take a closer look at one story. across over 2300000 people live in kaunas capital with more coming in every day. even now the city is short around $2000000.00 apartments construction is going ahead full capacity and.

the potential is great enough for german drywall maker cannot open a branch in ghana but even the best materials are useless if nobody knows how to handle them. and our target is to equip personnel in the building and construction industry to gain employment too and their livelihood. with assistance from the german gates said development agency the company set up a training center 350 young people have already completed training here architects civil engineers and tradesmen thousands more are expected to follow. can this set an example for other african countries. so let me put that question straightaway to daniel but with this preface to the question we heard the chancellor in the report before talking about migration it is pretty easy to conclude that a lot of this is all about migration many african countries have huge youth

populations not enough jobs to go around there is a lot of pressure on young people to go somewhere else where the opportunities are better can a project like that one that we just saw make a difference yes i think and i think the compact also has potential because i mean every country every continent also in these economic ties with the rest of the world i mean nobody can survive alone so i think also the compact has potential because infrastructure projects for instance the idea to. improve energy supply also helps to stimulate local growth and that in turn can create jobs for the young people that are there that are in dire need of jobs and also micro economic reforms like countries that are part of the compact have to keep inflation at bay they have to make sure that the but the budget deficits remain within certain limits that of course can also help local business so i think there is also some potential in the in the compact as well they have had to let me ask you this because we're seeing

a lot of interest in africa in other areas of the world russia held its own summit on africa just a few weeks ago china is deeply engaged in many african countries india expanding its own trade investment with africa do these countries by attaching fewer strings to their support offer more partnership and do more for young people and the poor than for instance germany. when this new realistic each of this country has its own interest not control the going to. go into full friendship all interest. of the european countries are doing that i mean we should look at the form what are the african countries doing they should be the people to save the peace the the people just said right missions that they're going to profit on population so i think the problem has been most of our governments don't take

a profit the majority of the population why is it that she said before that most of these governments yes yes supported by by by foreign unfaltering and more to nationals and we have to deal with that because if we don't do a dog we can continue to see the cycle repeating and repeating and for me i think the i think i use at the moment yes saying we want to profit from the resources of the continent we want to off the specs if we don't really need to go out. have to be responsible in the 1st place to look for foreign investors then we need investors to be doesn't mean we have to take all type of investors that are coming to africa. german development n.g.o.s and some international ones as well say that german support and international support should be linked to very clear human rights and environmental standards would you yourself also working with and geo agree with that and would you say it's still feasible given the presence of nations

like china and russia that attach fewer conditions to their support i actually one of the critics on the compact with africa is that the lack of environmental issues in the programs which is now climate change is a very very serious issue in the horn of africa and in north sub-saharan africa where a very serious drought that hits the. chad and where the. european union is that much interested. i think taking these issues nothing is going to be we're still living in one continent and we have each other. one planet also so climate is fairest human rights is rather more top of the agenda because most of the most of the lawns and subsidies that the

african governments gets it goes corrupted lete in or invested in in a way or another in the abuse of human beings like what is happening in combating migration issues that is very serious issue for me that what i have seen in in the cooperation between between germany and libyan border guards where there if you just have being kept in detention. in a very serious condition and inhuman. as a very quick answer down your posts if you would i want to come back to our title economic upswing in africa who really benefits what's your answer while i think at the moment much more needs to be done to make sure that the poor really benefit at the moment it's not a self-starter to make sure that the poor are really going to thank you thank you to all of you for being with us today and thanks to all of you out there for tuning in see you soon.

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this is t w news why from berlin indicting the israeli prime minister is this the beginning of the end for benjamin netanyahu israel's attorney general charges a prime minister with bribery and breach of trust netanyahu is calling the indictment a coup we'll take you live to jerusalem for the latest also coming up the 5th and final day of public hearings in u.s. president impeachment inquiry it follows wednesday's stunning testimony indicating that the president withheld aid to ukraine.