credible. welcome tonight. every week w. . nato leaders of this week been meeting in london to mark the 70th anniversary of an organization that styles itself as the most successful military alliance in history however provocative claims from french president in. the late eighty's as he put it brain damage triggered an angry reaction from others not least from u.s. president donald trump who described the comment as nasty insulting and disrespectful for america as usual work to seek some sort of compromise and consensus concluding that it had been

a very successful meeting so our question here on to the point is nato at 70 brain dead or fighting for it. for joining us here on the phone to the point here in the studio in berlin and i'm joined by 3 excellent journalists beginning with my daughter bella colleague in showers who's a french born political correspondent and in a manner well says gloves author mark rose braindead comments on nato diplomacy at risk also with us. from the russian desk here france d.w. he believes that it's nato is the perfect enemy for russia and if nato didn't exist then for domestic purposes the kremlin would have to. and a very warm welcome from outer leaning he's an author and see. sure of the berlin

based a leader target. and he argues that nato is still the strongest military alliance in the world the infighting at the london summit shows just how complex many security challenges have become. smarter i would like to begin with you head of the london gathering one u.k. newspaper the guardian newspaper said the meeting had the potential to be and i'm quoting the birthday party from hell there were certainly fears that things could get very ugly so now that the dust has settled is nato more united or less united than before. i think it is more united than before because we saw some surprises strong commitment from the u.s. president on the trump to nato strongly rejecting all brain dead commons by the french president no putting out from no obstruction from from the other participant that was feared about so their wealth in fights and struggles yes

but i think the unity in the airlines has been strict they have to seize it it's interesting that most of the german headlines and some of that i was looking out earlier said to the summer clothes there have been no parole no disaster no but stop it all sounds pretty paltry for an organization that as we say sees itself as the is the greatest military alliance in history you're right it is a defensive position saying there was no i mean split up of all these but but giving but giving the. different kind of threats before using something from russia to china cyber war and all these things you name it it was not supposed to be in meeting it's not even called a summit it's called a meeting with no clear cut gender anyway so it was not supposed to to solve these problems or get a unanimous position about new threats and things like this even though they found

a final. topic they agreed upon going to you are not to think they go to sleep. i am well i'm sorry i think there was some sort of an agenda during that meeting there was a set of decisions that people had agreed upon before even the meeting that the defense and foreign minister had a great upon such and things that come with that they can ration that was made at the summit i think that was important for them to meet does occasion of that president is i mean 1st so we need to reiterate and reassess. this alliance while old i was going on there was a very interested what you might call role reversal between presidents trump and chrome with mccrone lashing out. of nato and donald trump saying that made so that he's a fan of the nato alliance and that nato has come a long way in the last 3 years what do you make of all that that's a bit so rich coming from trying to actually blast someone over very sensitive

comments i would say but as so. if not of that a french fry because i also don't necessarily agree with the way a man or a micro actually addressed nato i think i get the point that he wants things to be shifting within the alliance and that's that's fair enough i think it needs some shifting but calling it a brand a target such a sensitive time where we having so many issues i think that's not necessary to right way to go and also it goes so goes on to show that he's a resorting to strategic is that our president term strategic he says that he has achieved a lot we using this blunt language he's adopting terms tried to strategic and actually when donald trump actually shook shook up nato last year it it resulted in countries to actually put more money into their defense politics so maybe you need some kind of shaken up i'm just not sure dots not using the not

using diplomacy to achieve so is a very wise given the current political situation globally. not a man supposed who would have people in russia likely to have false or 2 suits of single with their emotional reaction be to seeing nato celebrating its 70th anniversary it was march talk about some of the british in the russian state media if you look or more to russian media covering from well from london it's a very cynical comments about martha being busy view itself about some of the chief of staff presidents and prime min to. source of course of being involved each other so watch what i do i didn't to get all this about that there was a 1st topic and the 2nd one was not the linking monny to compete with the beautiful russian iraq it systems amid the new beautiful russian people systems so basically it's quite cynical views in russia always the people in the us press frightened of

nato in the way that people in europe are frightened of russia not at all i mean russia is so problem is on its military in right today if this is new you were russian fuming fearing from the russians soon you must involve another run by the law of the 2nd world war in russia which is a huge production which is supporting the russian national pride and the military history of getting a base north of think there is a russian being frightened and i think the russians know that nato is not a annexing and conquering an imperialistic power. so they know the difference between the on the no 100 a carrot if you talk but the normal average people are most koreans and 1st broke i mean no one really cares not though it's danger from router is the instrument instrument that is that what it is devoted to goals for conservation of society for domestic issues but it's not such fear in the broth population like in europe there

but it was interesting nevertheless to hear. me opposing talking from sochi from the black sea resort talking about natives continued expansion as he put it and then never the less saying that he hoped that a shared interest in common security would prevail is that must have a 1st step perhaps in a new direction some people are hoping that it is a dialogue a different kind of dialogue a different kind of conversation i think it's very very difficult i mean michael raised the topic of new relationships with russia but i'm afraid it won't happen very soon there are just too many developments and still the annexation of crimea in the war is still going on in east of ukraine we will have the normandy meeting on monday coming up in paris we will see if that leads to something but we have news being viewed as a last must test a possible new relations and you know i mean you have you know. that it was but given the reasons why we get progress and you cry holes killed me but given the recent scandal in berlin with the with the likelihood that the russians are

involved explain in the receipt of a candle for all of us. a man who was killed in berlin and tear garden supposedly and many indices point to that the involvement of the russian secret service the. perpetrator was called but he's silent about it and 2 diplomats were expelled. in germany so there are huge huge tensions right though so how it's not likely to impact the ukraine beating on monday that this coming monday it will impact the meeting in terms of is this the right time to make a new kind of policy towards that to be approved and i think no german politician right now can say yes it is the right ok what you're going to merkel going to burst the middle of europe which and when knowles all of the think will giorno they will go they will move and i hope and i hope there will be some concrete steps the words

collisions in the eastern europe or in the hope of the russian are kind of i don't know what's happened in paris next week but i guess yes ok deescalation is to crane yes things like that but no new i mean strategic partnership in any kind of time is not talked about news that does it but i'm sure thoughts russia visit talked about country and discolorations there normandy form out about minsk agreement with this collision in the eastern ukraine and i hope there will be concrete steps in this direction ok the debate about nato is goals and purpose goes back a long way right to the very beginning in fact but so far nobody has described the alliance is brain dead and there's little debating the fact that militarily nato is full steam be reckoned with. the north atlantic treaty organization flex its muscles in norway it was the biggest military exercise since the dissolution of the soviet union and

a show of force all of directed at russia before the summit french president made it clear that he desired an end to the confrontation with moscow definition of a. common enemy what are common topics you question deserves clarification as you see it's a very strategic question sometimes a here is russia our enemy is it china is it the mission of the transatlantic alliance to designate them as enemies i don't believe so our common enemy within the alliance is the terrorism that has hit every one of our countries. with president mccrone had set the direction of the nato summit and rebuffed alliance partners especially in eastern europe in addition he criticized more severely than any. unilateral american withdrawal from syria and the actions of nato partner turkey in the region.

president in the future. stake at risk is certainly. good spending a lot of money on the military it's very good having boots on the ground and being efficient militarily but you need to have strategic goals and the central strategic goals we just saw was that is the question is the what's the. here we so very different. saying that we don't have to act with them and do not. consider. so. 29 countries for nato and they all have diverging interests. of defense most of them don't spend enough according to nato. regulation on defense budgets so yes then there needs to be a new strategy there also needs to be an identifying of the actual threats we have

new zones of conflicts that ought to be identified current through the threat to the moment the threat is not necessarily one country or another the threat is a much more global desir for this meeting nato acknowledged that china was posing new opportunities but also new challenges with its rise and of course the situation i was russia at the moment poses a threat when it comes to dealing with elections but there will probably be able to say more about this than me and i know my conscious outlines the 5 that we need a new strategy for nato and that's what i was saying earlier by just saying that the organisation is brain dead is not going to bring things much further like the man who is the enemy what is if they're in the music of the country what if the music climate change or globalization or global power not mentioned of the earth

are going to ring in london as far as i can tell climate change what is the enemy cannot be fine. what if the enemy is operating on the level of a must media or you can use of manipulation of the public opinion has been not on this i really like russia and. what has the not the right answer is to do vengeance coming from not from the country not on the on the. convenient to be with pants or with pants thanks you think that old style isn't convenient the prince let's go back back in history a little bit i mean we had the bipolar world the cold war there was a clear cut enemy in the midst of june and it's after the wall came down there was a term coined in the cold war called flexible response it was how to react in kind of war 2 words soviet union troops if you have a flexible response you need a flexible response to date about new threats there is no single biggest threats

but that doesn't mean that they are not multi party polar threats. as for example russia or china or cyber war or terrorism overnight from boise and that nato members don't necessarily all share the same values as they did for so long they don't necessarily share the values that are maps out in the preamble of the nato treaty yes but do they have to share the same values to confront the variety of threats maybe not maybe they can confront a variety of threats with different kind of values i mean clearly example is. the president of turkey who clearly has a different kind of values than the rest of nato before we continue i'd like to come back she wants to know mr atta and let's just go to a clip that we have of the way the. president. addressed the meeting in london the agenda the very robust agenda he brought within

the some people have dismissed this blackmail let's listen. our friends at nato do not recognize as a terrorist organization those against whom we are carrying out our fight against terrorism then excuse me we will oppose any step that nato seeks to undertake. star single. ounce of we're talking about shared values or values this and don't necessarily share your news papers that talk to ship equal rights to regularly behaves as if it couldn't care less about the shared values and interests that underpin the alliance yes but it still might be valued member of the alliance. even though we have the disputes about the as $400.00 defense system. the russian defense system we have to spews about syria about about the

cooperation with russia in the region about supporting islamists in syria and so on and so on and not to not to talk about everything that is inside so cherokee which gets reason for for a lot of wars so still is a very valuable member of the alliance in the south life every member of the of nato is valuable because they will have an equal say in the matter so there's no country that is left on the altar and i think that's one of the things that make to make nato valuable. people are worried about turkey because it's now and some are saying turkey should not be a member of nato. yes but it is and. i don't really know it completely how do you think it is fair that there's this meeting in london i think there was much to say about conflicts of interests and come face of post not a tape has not had to clashing with so in my name i call talking with justin

trudeau from canada and that gave a bit of the fading of a schoolyard and i'm not sure the the world at the moment deserves that kind of latitude from us to be like to go back to the point you mentioned about the bust of not there because the whole 3rd of the problems or the whole thing then source of danger of shifted completely in the recent debates because it's and is not a big jerk it became the member of the not the danger was completely different than no no it's the middle east is the whole sport of the world politics and so short you place it the completely different role in the process and this is what we are talking about the whole world is changing so greek and so far so fast that the need to react or not the new story arc very grieved for this and the christian is able to react the greek with interest and that's why i could remind you about the there is the 303030 initiative i think is very valuable and might be exploited little bit

means we have nato has to be able to 30 days to have 30 battalions 30 ships. in every corner on the earth so if they if they work on this initiatives i think it's very well valuable and it might come from a lot of threats they're facing. but i think we're also facing new threats for example the cyberspace nature has to become to foment infighting that there's also a new place of conflict that is actually actual space neato so has to develop. in dr god i think the threats have diversified and if nato wants to survive it actually has to find a way to address those and talk to you frank. make state up to facebook groups from centers where a promise and provoke profile break and to push ideas via facebook to the american public and keep fighting through these facebook groups american public one part of the american public. against another part of american public what can chip

sometimes do against this and so vigorously but still just for a 2nd because i would like to end it once here was a man who has to say about one point we haven't touched so far there's a lot of tension in nato ranks about money a significant number of nato members according to donald trump a free loading including germany. we're looking for world war 3 percent of the largest g.d.p. ever nobody's ever had the feeling we have right now. nobody's come to us and other people what they want to preserve some people paying less than one percent of a very small if you're not here. to get there we are. not here. when you are with your french background do you understand germany's reluctance to meet spending targets well it has a history as well because of old wood to germany was reluctant for a long time to a low military spending at all and decide of history is very. very

present in every decision made in regarding to results of what you are saying is that there are french troops on the ground fighting all kind of fighting that was my 2nd saw. somebody would be a good start was my 2nd that was my 2nd point actually so germany spends way less on friends in its defense and france is actually paying the price of blogs in africa in order to protect the rest of europe that is a fact and indeed that is problematic it is also problematic in the partnership between france and germany because they agreed no later than you know tobar they did agree to spend less on a coordinating coordinated defense system but germany to german parliament is. awaiting them spending too much time discussing the budgets rather than putting the money where it should be and that actually hinders the french german relationship

as well so to me what's your response to this streak of pacifism that still is very central in all in politics military politics and life if i talk tomorrow in france is their business provoking moscow and if i tell them what german media are writing covering about the condition of the been the surveyor. no one believes me there is always a very injured book bundesrat troops are sent to the field without food without weaponry or is a little service here so little submarines basically nothing on a major role for a people living in russia for a country like germany having this kind of army. i can hear you trying to get a. yes i say germany should spend more they should spend more not necessarily on hard but even though i think the army has to be modernized very very much but they should spend more on cyber defense this is one of the huge topics. nato countries have to face as a security threat and to develop and build up the need the needed skills for cyber

defense is something that is really really important and i think you might even get a majority of germans committed to that not necessary to defense spending the traditional way but let me add one more point to to president u.s. president trumps claim i mean you still have to see the united states spend like 5 trillion dollars from $911.00 to now on the war on terror all over the world so the huge defense budget of the united states goes to many places in the world not just to european defense is that iran pouring rich no one an officer it understands rob someone of its high speed internet connection if you talk about cyber attacks and cyber the fence no one can imagine the country like germany have such a birth quality of internet. but there will always be a discrepancy between the american army and the german or european army in the

making for example because we simply didn't want to not share the same vision of. the well. i think you say them in germany because of history it will never be a country which will want to make fun which you want to in t.v. . with it's on me but at least it should have a functioning army and a fog that regularly america cannot fly somewhere because the plane wouldn't take off something about that that goes on to show it's a crying shame. yes it is a crying shame and it is not just michael it's the president as well it's the foreign minister and many other because just. and i think this is for a country like i agree with quite a lot of this i think not just boston's a lot about this but the rest of the world is doing that as well especially to the russians and the chinese who are developing. and there are flirts but if we come to

the chinese i mean china was mentioned at. a little time. and so there you overlap in new threats in cyber war with. traditional threats and that's called why the front that makes up the 5 g. system in the. engine. the most successful military alliance in history was. the fact. thank you very very much for joining us here on to the point. being the question we've been interesting.

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