but this is the what makes people panic when they work with me is that i might say to an activist play jesus or i might tell a child they have to play perfectly or tell an actor that i'm not going to give him any lines or tell him what he should do so. in the end he might turn out to be the dramatic advisor and not on stage at all. this man never takes a break. let's cut his throat. is

one of europe's most successful and controversial directors he has a clear mission he wants to make the world a better place with his art. always gives his all in theater film and political activism what drives him. to. the city of ghent in belgium is small and yet incredibly lively a remarkable cultural scene has developed here in the shadow of the belgian capital brussels we met at. the theater where he is now artistic director. 15. to be a restless spirit what brought you together. this could no longer go back a long way not only get it done a lot of production. in brussels over the past 1015 years there are many minorities

here if you can't compare it with a german city at all there's another audience there's more access to a cosmopolitan society and at the same time it's a tradition of mixing john resig theater here. the worst many artists have been combining dance performance film and theatre from the start. but when i arrived and said i needed a lamb and 2 dogs and a jihad is that they also ok we'll get that for you. in germany they would have said you're crazy you've got to work with our ensemble and that's a bunch of old white men. the 1st piece as artistic director at mt kent pedo marched against famous altarpiece and the city's residents he didn't just put lamps on stage but amateur actors children migrant seniors he want to create cosmopolitan theatre but he doesn't only want to direct place.

but i really like it and i'm passionate pedantic about it them but then it can become boring and stressful. so i'm glad when i can travel and do something that automatically makes sense. i have spent a lot of time in africa in hate radio he examined the $994.00 genocide in rwanda specifically the role of the radio r t l m which broadcast racist propaganda during the massacres. up to 1000000 people are estimated to have been killed most of them tutsis most of the killers were hutus. survivors of the genocide played the radio hosts in the production. continues to work on projects in and about africa.

took 2 for lunch from the u.k. when i worked in that region by chance 1st in rwanda and then i went to eastern congo and saw that all the problems the crises and the genocide had been exported because so many people had fled to eastern congo and there was instability in the state collapsed before not this. many companies exploited the fact that it was a failed state. they saw i think it just ripe someone in mining all the whole time there are huge deposits there and that's the war is still ongoing. and the creek at the. very end of. their total. rubbish. so i thought that let's set up a tribe you know examine the situation with the set up an international court of staff to keep us so we got judges from the hague where there's an international

criminal court and from congo mixing different legal systems and we took 3 cases involving companies so that we could create a space to make such trials possible. if it's really you know. with unicef you make this up we're listening to. the symbolic tribunal and the film we're a way of encouraging democracy in congo. and as we've done. when we toured through the mining towns to show the film 2 years later this is people said that what was happening was terrible but they said they would stop voting if there wasn't any change and there would be a revolution and that's what we saw in east germany when everyone said that's enough this is enough and it's been time to you want your theater to have an impact on reality and that happened in congo as a result of the tribunals didn't it. the consequence was this i mean the impact was

that 2 ministers were fired from the provinces we had worked in the mining minister in the interior minister. but. it was obvious that they were completely incompetent corrupt and even criminals. my hope is always that the political class and the business elite should have to justify themselves in front of an institution most of the stuff that's the ultimate goal. because this is this this is this this and soon. he does one project a year in a crisis zone with his theater in 2019 he went with some actors to mosul and iraq to stage a modern day oresteia the trilogy of ancient greek tragedies by escalus. business those who focus on not miss there is no theater there we found a kind of fine art academy 1st but 1st the city was conquered by the americans then by al-qaeda and then occupied by us of the ho as the capital of the i s calif it

all art forms were banned and artists were executed if they didn't renounce their art i couldn't slow you give it to poor so whites in the complaint that. it was not an easy project the iraqis had very little theatre experience and they were not allowed to go abroad as had originally been planned so how filmed them in iraq and projected the scenes onto the stage during the performances in belgium is. here to share. the source of. the stuff like. this over. 'd and agent greek tragedy about murder and revenge within a royal family transposed to contemporary iraq ringback.

it's a country which knows all about murder and revenge once again me though how explored how victims and perpetrators can continue to live together. what can be done about the fighters of the so-called islamic state rivera. for retribution. the and. i'm glad he asked the iraqi actors what they thought should be done. and i think. the money. goes to the men you know of the police chief not the model i don't think she. said the money is going to stick around don. lemon and some of their money might get what you might coming out of the meeting. come on down we come up here.

when asked again they answer differently. it's been another fake expected they'd all vote for forgiveness but they all abstained. they said because we couldn't even kill a chicken because so how could we vote to put someone to death yet if we forgive them we've abolished justice and that's why my hope still lies with the institutions and if it's a justice can exist so people say i can't kill the guy but i don't want him to go free so i'll hand him over to a judiciary i trust you know but when there isn't any like in iraq and what do you do then when there's no stuff just me of course most of them. blame me in the low house staging the character orestes is gay a taboo subject in a predominantly muslim country like iraq. this kiss between 2 men caused an uproar

at the performance in mosul. actor johan lace and was there does he think all went too far. he likes to push things further than other people and i think that's what theatre should do and that's what we what we should do make people think make people think about lives and about our life together and that's what he does so he's maybe provocative and maybe goes a bit too fossum times but i think it's ok i think it's better than the opposite i mean no go straight there where. the iraqi performers also push things to their limits and beyond what does a project like this do for local bands and a lot of fault as you pick them go as we were leaving people said that was cool to

go on this for the 1st time in 20 years a large group came here to do an art project and not to conquer the city with arrestees i'm also is a success story unesco watching the film. the secretary general said you must advise us they're going to think that shows how little contact the rest when they ask only been there twice who they should support time of the on. the streets and couldn't and it's hard to work if i was just name consultant director of the film and theater department of the revive the spirit of mosul programs on top of. you know and i'm going to build a theater there and do an exchange with 3 border countries germany belgium and maybe france put it on a solid footing to face the millions are flowing into the feast that's what you want in this are you really a political activist in charge the activist. it's interesting to me super time and again when i'm doing rehearsals like now i realize. that's really

work to go right to be on the ball when you're involved in activism you kind of just get carried along these might as well. go by not to be when i think your activism isn't for me and your theater work isn't either fun as it's a comedy but it was really nice in italy the people i choose to g.'s a scene in costume and then take part in some demonstration. but in between monday it was to make or. oh yeah you know lho shot his latest film the new gospel in my terre in southern italy jesus and most of the apostles are african immigrants and refugees some are christian others muslim. people living around the terror often in camps are makeshift settlements. 7 but this is not a historical film it's a sad story from our times calls jesus is

a social revolutionary fighting for the disenfranchised. and. that's. what it. has to go are you religious. i mean atheist and i don't believe in god and i never have not even as a child and not through the terms and of course when you deal with it you're impressed by the power and the complexity of the bible. and then you understand why this book this faith still survives because there's something different about it. i mean the desire for basic humanity fundamental solidarity and dignity. is to

mention take for example how absurd it is that jesus surrounds himself with the lowest members of society in a bid to seize power so that he could have set up better associations and he didn't train a fighter so like they didn't islam they trained fighters built an army on the cheap power ok to. use this money but jesus also preaches complete non violence so he's also a crazy guy who goes around shouting acts ruthlessly when he can't take any criticism and in the end he's done in by his own people he could play them and you might say it's because they can't take any more of him. and i found all of these points really impressive. from these 2 behind the fence act on the one hand the film shows stations in jesus's life but on the other there is this revolt digne tell this revolt of dignity on real demonstrations by

migrants is that what's the situation like for migrants there and what problems did you have recruiting people in these camps. you know. i travelled there and realised that this lovely little city which has doubled for jerusalem in many films is ironically surrounded by refugee camps. they're full of people who are thanks to the dublin regulation are stuck there. they're exploited on the huge tomato and orange plantations until they die or i don't know disappeared one told me. so they had to go. or go away either if they're prisoners in italy they might lose the legal name. just the kind of people jesus spoke up for. the boundaries between reality and fiction blur. performers are fighting for better working and living conditions in real life they've all personally experienced

exploitation as field hands who have no right. now they're revolting against the mafia and big companies who profit from their labor. places where people no longer have to work for the mafia but on their own plantations for example. we've tried to remind people that a legal basis exists that it's a scandal these laws are enforced and tried to help them and force them like it says in the bible i didn't come to destroy the law but to fulfill it to fully. migrants from the camps around the chair i have come for the big rally they're preparing for the revolt. initiated by the actors jesus and his disciples. the.

local people also demonstrate solidarity with their demands for a right of residence and an end to the exploitation this protest will also become part of the new gospel. truth your f. theater director and a university lecturer and you're bringing out a book series that are always doing 234 things that once are you a workaholic. yeah yeah yeah i was always that way makes the i've always like to work a lot because it's my way of coming into contact with people i know this if i just worked like crazy and i don't know maybe produced 500 machine parts and not just 50 then i'd be a workaholic and i wouldn't really find that acceptable. interaction here stare into invasion took a hold of this incidentally iron astonishingly little you couldn't do the show if i

count the hours i've worked and still work every day that it's not worth it at all . the new. type incurred a mountain of debt is through all of my projects which were always completely underfunded and always caused tax chaos that went to live or die you name it. could leave with that you can be others i found it companies which then collapsed somehow. all that just so i can work a lot it's pretty contradictory this new of the me to shoot a habit become this is. you're also a father is there any time left for your family. for you to be. in far too little because i have a screensaver of my daughter's and often when i look at it i think that the most important thing. this be fixed or the worst i feel that the most important from them but i do miss a lot of the same times i'm working in ghent and i live in cologne which are pretty

close. and so i try to be home for 2 or 3 days each week that's why i often do rehearsals and conduct meetings in cologne. because of my family people always have to come to cologne to meet me since i try to spend as much time there as possible. so i thought something. though maybe they're glad not to have such a go getter of a father around all week yeah. i think that's true with my family just like with my coworkers here who also don't see me all the time there's a positive side to it. when you're really glad to see one another really communicating there's not such a torturous routine to it could be a. routine has to be the last thing most people would associate with me though he's positively brimming with energy and extraordinary ideas. fabulous networker he's always curious and not afraid of getting involved in things but he's also

someone who knows no boundaries someone who's constantly challenging himself and those who work with him. actress was seen a lot he has collaborated with on several successful productions currently they're preparing a new piece about disenfranchised people in brazil. and. we've been in contact about this project for over a year. and the dire. ection frequently changes radically for the since i've grown used to it and now i think it's wonderful you always brings disorder into order also into the order of the theater business and that's his great strength though it's stressful too but mainly it's the strength. in compassion the history of the machine gun was you know lardy plays an engineer

worker who finds herself confronted with her own limits and prejudices. here. as you keep on tackling highly charged topics but also shun the usual theatrical effects or big emotions and outbursts on stage your performers act more like witnesses so do you make it hard on the viewer as you can mentor other women might be better but then i'm not german people don't go around screaming mice and men but then they don't in most countries luckily it's only that way in german regional theater in a lot of ways and that's always put me off there are these people shouting at me how can i get close to them when they're busy showing me they've taken an elocution

course. the numbers are pretty new and another thing that's always interested me is listening to someone who listening to a story produces something in me and this is one of the quieter effects of theater . you know we can effect of this. this is the way millo house stage 5 easy pieces a play about belgian child molester and murderer mark to tour most of the roles including that of to true are acted by the children to emphasize the power relations. between adults and children. and you have always asked myself why isn't this power relationship visible on stage and when this case arose i thought i must use theatrical methods to show what it

really is. kidnapped the children but basically he told them stories to control them and to get them to do things that they really didn't want to do but did all the same. and in my playing we see an adult director getting children to cry and undress and do things they actually don't want to do suddenly and this is the really uncomfortable part of the you understand what that really works when you have to go. you know. 5. or. 5 easy pieces proved very controversial it was praised by international critics yet performances were banned in some places . is handling such dark material too much to expect of children will they be traumatized by the experience. what does it do to them to

portray a child murderer or to play the role of the victim or the desperate parents to help. let's get to this this to you don't concern me that animals and children are always authentic. i mean simply rehearsed with the children until they played all of these roles completely professionally employing different methods and all the while observing how the audience broke into tears and even play in this play and i would i think about the only people who were traumatized at all were the children of this when you found i found that cruel somehow it is because there's kind of a liberation in the portrayal of not being free it's often that way in theater. and then the my basically you overcome trauma by going through it what are you working on now. and. i mean editing my

jesus film the new gospel and doing a play called family. we can if immunity be in it i ask a family to recount the story of another family who killed themselves for reasons that remain completely unknown to this day and at the same time to understand why things like this happen. so you're dissecting evil. yes i always have. done. that. but. the but the fact is. that.

the big thing. every year at christmas time is your pm somebody with meals subline looking at each country's yuletide tradition it's this season 0 max mission. in our series christmas fare this time germany which traditional roast goose can change your bread. your romance not to. take the bus.

with the one stories that makes it so special your wedding. was. in 60 minutes on. hold.

the body christmas. eve. of the a. paris in the run up to christmas find out what my colleague maggie got up to there for her perfect weekends and they say in the show. and with that a very warm welcome to another edition of your effect.