brussels because his preterist view mariam to say that. conflicts. next. will not succeed in dividing us not succeed in taking the people off the streets because we're tired of this dictatorship. taking a stand global matters. made from mind. a made room for the spread of peace cleaning up your mess isn't a no no how do you sleep at night i have a basket an apology for my people living in the middle east from ethiopia has come a long way in a short time there's a new peace deal with eritrea and a new prime minister apparently determined to bring accountability for the human rights abuses of the past my guest this week here in brussels this is previous us

are highly mariyam vessel and who denied for many years that human rights violations had taken place and whose government locked up many thousands of political prisoners have seen no shame for the torture that was perpetrated and the lives that were ruined during his time in office. highly miami welcome to conflict so thank you so much thank you for having me ethiopia has a new prime minister now of the who took over after you resigned last year he's now received the nobel peace prize basically for undoing many of the evils of your government and doing what you couldn't do within 100 days. don't you feel something of a failure when you look at what he's done. i know that because. i have done my share

to bring this change to happen. premise that abby has not come from blue moon it has come from the past in which i was there is a thing here but he's begun to correcting the massive human rights abuses which were a prominent feature of your time no trace but is it is my party which started the reform process and we say. the process should be a no one to the country basically but also to the party itself so i think that is a process which yielded prime minister rabin. prime minister so he continued the process pro reform my gender my party and his party whether this is nobel committee cited his achievements as lifting the country's state of emergency granting amnesty to thousands of political prisoners

for years you always denied there were only scrapping media censorship legalising outlawed opposition groups dismissing military and civilian leaders suspected of corruption all the things that you failed to do when you were in office by the way do you know that 9095 percent of the prisoners released due to my office spent before i left office and before i signed so i think what i'd be did was that remaining 5 percent which has to be released so the decision was the decision of the party and i took that action before i resigned how many did you release almost 4000000 something. more than 3000 or so you know where there were many more than 3000 in jail yeah but it's only young people who've recently been arrested been released but the main political figures which has been adverse to been

released. during my term before i resigned in may this year the attorney general. filed criminal charges against your former intelligence chief to ask for alleging human rights abuses and corruption he's gone missing that you know where he would have it i don't know i'm not in office now no information 20 other people were charged with him he had served until june 28th being. he had served you as prime minister who were denying that any human rights abuses were being committed i think you're you're lucky information lou you're lucky riddance it is my government and my party who admitted that there has been. abuse. here often here in interviews nobody's being mistreated we have no political prisoners one off to the other you gave interviews sitting smiling across the greens of us say oh everything's fine here you know you got these for you you have to understand there with how our part to operate was one of the state of the way

you operate with me if you like yourself let me finish 1st if that's the case then you know that we have been historically we have to understand that in the 1st place this is a party fighting left and you know us. when there is a communist mentality and when it's a marxist mentality there is a centralism where you do in your ward your party decides on issues even though you have differences in as a minority you take with you so you just hold the line whatever it is because you're too cowardly to say anything about what's really going on all this is that it's you know it skews that sort of misplacing the whole thing is that we believe that in our party and the government that we need to reform our system we

need to bring up. changes that we need to democratize our country because that's a country we said number of interest this and there is an introduction of ethnic mobilized politics which is very dangerous and therefore we have we have disabled that we need to go far to say that in deep sleep in the forming our country which is a person of that she'll be busy in washington you didn't get it i would need we're going to be forced to well if you had done that the prime minister when he came in by me as the abbey wouldn't have had to condemn police brutality pledged to return rein in the security services tackle what he called economic mismanagement corruption and rights abuses all of this spending find you want to spin off this is also misplaces because prime minister abbott has not come from a blue moon he has got another way where he came for us and they're with us he's cleaning up the mess isn't a no no it's not he's not cleaning up these messes he's going on if you'll mess up

the mess you left dark knight i think this is also misplacing and i really always say that you know correctly this is our party's admission of our collective mistake and then we put in place properly he's told things that you failed to do by november last year dozens of intelligence officers and high level officials have been arrested including people from the military run metals and engineering corp met tech on charges of corruption and human rights is this is the level put those charges to dance feed that is the study which i introduced 1000000 to be finished i mean it. november last year you weren't in office i did it you do not believe me this i did it i lunched in the studies and then completion of the 2 studies that action has been taken the attorney general said $63.00 people have been arrested that months november last year 27 for corruption $36.00 on charges of human rights

violations that included the former head of mattick conflict dagny or brigadier general over whom you did nothing you did nothing about him in that study you lucky with this i love the study and a group of people who study the study is charging people with human words in north charleston and usually when you try to rob the challenged people after you stayed after concrete even there was a criminal investigation unit that investigation has been launched by may 3rd local media said huge sums of money were missing from this company emetic whether the girl let the let the court decide on it as prime minister he was supposed to look after the public places the military was supposed to follow your orders. and you for seem to fail spectacularly to make them do that since you feel any remorse at the crimes you were allowed to take place when you were prime minister no i think i have resigned because i was not able to you know change dramatically whatever has

to come between 2 week because no i i say fiction actually i have my own history in this and i have my own weaknesses and you have got to not to look into only the weaknesses but you had to also see the strength of this country has gone and you know you know that my country has been visited during my tenure by 6 of the 77 leaders and they all announced that this country has been working very hard at double digit grows and they cannot make. achievements where we have expected our people out of poverty the only country which has actually in. 7 out of this 8 images and now where the by the united nations by my time so i think you have to see all those positive things we have achieved last day of the last over the rest of the attorney general. said investigated her uncovered

serious abuses by security services at secret prisons in the capital and elsewhere do you know what your security officers were doing in the single prisons i don't know those big smites machine or did you ever ask go visit how can i do or if your intelligence doesn't give me information how can you know there were plenty of foreign reports that torture was going on which you didn't own it and you're not you're telling me you didn't know what was going on i didn't say you said no so far as your denials were just pro-forma denials no are not going to know everything when you were in office no not at all you did you said they didn't know everything you didn't you didn't know what was going on in these prisons you didn't ask you weren't interested. they know it or fish only we know some of the accused abuses and i have taken in my time some of the actions. of those things but i didn't know that there are you know informal prisons which has been there the attorney general

said there are people who have been blinded and held in darkness for long periods of time others have been left infertile because of blows to their genitals there are some that have limbs broken women have been subjected to go rape and men have been sort of mice all this happened until your rule so i had one she was shame that this was going to move on to you would rule no i mean would it be assured that when this happened but i didn't know those things and if i knew those things i would architected them because this is a very sacred things happened well it didn't take long for this prime minister to find out what was going on so obviously nice looking in light lace and you did not believe you know either you didn't want to look at italian in mid whom for this prime minister to art i struggled very hard to bring him to power and i did every you lost your job that's why you gave up you lost control of the party lost faith

in you that's why you gave up what i think you can you can say that going to be struggling to control the rest in the country because failure cases now is going to need my sense i did it intentionally because i wanted to see that this big change should come so i think this is genuinely what has happened and i did my best in paving the way for this to happen so i think that has to be clearly carter did and i did i think a big clearly wriggle of it when we have been in your prisons during your term in office with being subjected to gang rape and men to some of them are ization now that you know this even if you say you didn't know it at the time. was europe. the gene to the victims i didn't have all of the emperor's way when they said when they resigned because that's the system which was open to the unmedicated you meant to the victims and apologize personally to them if there is a need to be a will you haven't done some have you know i have i have been to get those plans

and then when we have been conciliation and threw them into consideration commission established and asked process as well how do you sleep at night knowing that this was going on in your torture centers carried out by your officials when you were prime minister how do you sleep at night if i knew. then i said to you that i was there to collect everything in my disposal if i knew it but i did know that your meal your said to be a religious man from a family of pentecostalists the state run that strong. however those gang rape and sodomy is ocean fit in with your religious values no i didn't know i say if a new it doesn't fit in in my prayers but you went on denying it denying it denounce news for now you have read the interview that that's the report there the noisy

despite the reports coming early human rights groups all over the world which you just rubbished you said that's not true they're outside as there are enemies don't listen to them everything is following you said i think i have never say everything is fine you said there was no nor mistreated us i said there was no mistreatment going on there is a problem but i was saying that my report is that it's not to the extent where it has been said that's what i'm saying by then any case i report which i was i was giving to the public which which was the case let's take another detention center gigo central prison otherwise known as jail or get their regional detention center in the east of the country but ministered in public by your special police it was closed in august last year you know what was going on there as well no i don't know why not you knew the prison existed and you know you were right you had no duty

officer to you have no curiosity mr high among you didn't want to know what was going on in your jails no it's not their kids you know that if you tell governments have their own rights and i think the whole thing is i did my my work according to the reports they get from my intelligence and from my sources and therefore that's what what was the kids. people reported there were many of the former prison those who said they saw people dying in their cells after being tortured by officials in this or garden jail and as it was called what should happen to the officials who carried out this torture. i mean what should happen to them. they're in prison and that's it. just prison sentences and what should happen to you for turning a blind eye to it that depends on the legal system of the country you know i had in

his own this simply because to take all the responsibilities but what is extraordinary is that with all the abuses that were carried out when you were prime minister you accepted from the new prime minister the nation's highest award for service without even blushing without any embarrassment whatsoever now that you know what was going on while you were prime minister why didn't you get back to work. why should i because i have a number of positive things i have because you failed to show all this is one part of it and it's the incident that says you tallest is when you watch your eyes water could hit my my country that doesn't explain that's not the only thing you know i have done many good things there are issues in the system which are definitely what i initiated reform and did conduct reform because i understood that age of you know before his admission and this too that there are something

going on therefore i initiated this reform and then i have released 95 percent of the you are in if you were in office for 6 years and this new prime minister has come in and done more for human rights than you did in all the time you were there this because they paved the way for him to be really the u.s. state department in 2016 published a catalogue of the human rights abuses taking place on the your rule which of course you deny it but then there are known to be true arbitrate killings disappearances torture harsher life threatening prison conditions detention without charge you know minute where they really weren't but that's what they said but how can you tell you that you didn't know what was going on when all these reports were pointing to what was yes and whenever they knew that there are things going wrong i initiated that form and the serious reform and the before and that's the result where the prime minister has come into power. you said when your is on that you

wanted to be part of the solution in ethiopia how can you be part of the solution when you so much part of the problem. you know i would become part of the solution because in there is a problem which would result in procuring to created the atmosphere of permissive out in the sphere in which your security officials believed they could torture but it was all right to torture go on torturing disappearing people no judicial excellence no do you created the atmosphere in which that was possible no i didn't create the atmosphere so while profile and then the constitutional system has been established then anyone who is the one where there is could be accounted for but i didn't create this this point this the environment for them it is a deep system which i was not given to look into because of my background and because of my you know i must say that are coming into the deep system so i put it

see that when mr big came into power he couldn't wait to condemn the legacy of your government and draw a line in the time in office could be a pro last year he said that the government your government had sanctioned torture of its prisoners and said it had been guilty of state terrorism you said it he said in parliament does the constitution say anyone who was sentenced by a court can be tortured put in a guard netscape doesn't that's the rule that the government was in his eyes were not only mine you were the prime minister i was in this order but with you is there also the buck stopped yeah politically decided to inform including indian outs of what the responsibility lay hailes not to you how do you yet use the ends it is now to try to get out of it mike to try to get out of his relationship and form that's why admission that you know what i needed to do for the here in a shared vision for you blocked every attempt by the united nations special

rapporteur should come to you or anyone has an issue call from an attempt is should come easy or at least we should. come up from us and the only message i need locked i believe is in you blocked my list be gating was because you didn't want them to find out what was going on i did and i initiated that before before my eyes that mission a year ago and out before me is that what the result of pain is that i'm going to come to power conjured so beautiful i'd be all of it in him to power the conscience of people were killed in the your regime and you refused to have an independent investigation led by the un chief human rights official if you ask the killings the last one and half years the number of killings side passed in 6 years what happened in my town if you ask for killings look that is ridiculous so the whole thing is you know i initiated this new form and

a year ago before my dissemination and i pay of their way in for the new system you would have in the bush was mean you say you are surely to reform you created a regime where people were tortured and disappeared and had their rights taken away from them consistently tens i have thousands of people i was not needed i was on the getting a basket an apology to my people that the region has some abuses of you know who my doubts and the deficit and democracy and that has happened i am and i still feel that i'm sort of for that but i can dish it out for change to come that's not much of an apology as it really is and that's a half hearted apology no it is not a new to my we are not the same you know i could have taken you to the last as many leadership programs are as you may want to spare you lost the faith or not i haven't lost that security forces haven't was the army they're all going to have a rest for the rest and they should know by this that they should have been

investigated and under your time a worthwhile one to continue as the others you know i could have used everything up to the. last of my bit if you want your spirit is a dictatorship yet you always claim that democracy took time you always said this is a fledgling democracy it takes time and decision you see is what every dictator says act the way they just said well if you give i'll follow yourself in europe you pass through any number of civil wars before you can use to see what a person read to you t.j. says it's not target on somalia that's on the far east this is why are they show or even york united states everywhere in the western countries you democracy has taken time and it has not come in one short and one day and one week and one minute it has taken you to much of that school and that will continue democracy is building them over the culture here is not justice everything to slow it down this trial of

war and we've never shied away from associations or friendships either with indicted or convicted war criminals do they hold some special fascination for you these people of which ones like mr r. bushehr the former president of the bill in august you posted a controversial picture on facebook of you smiling next to ethiopia as exiled marxist leader megastore haile mariam and then you took it out when there was a huge outcry because this man of course was found guilty and of sent here of genocide by the way i made him incidentally when i was there in some buy when he was in the president's office when i was there in the president's office when i made him and i talked to him so that's what happened in any case and you posted a comment saying i wish to see more former heads of government and states in my country contributing their parts in different capacity of the peaceful transition

of political blog that is not me it is the officers there who did it and they say this is wrong. so you don't want mr mengistu with his conviction for genocide to play a part in the new ethiopia i think if we go through through is an adequate solution commission and if he is also given the chance to go to our job is and then anything whether the through is any consolation commission bleeds into it i then that leads the country in the sequential mission i have a deep belief that we need conciliation what mother says well some of the past even the future is worse of the possible mottos the genocide isn't something you just you just out there see by just feeling our way when the capital did it was an illusion to the to make up to explain to me please how a conviction for one of the most serious crimes on the planet would qualify mr mingus to contribute to the well being of your country howard how would a man with

a qualification like that. i think it depends on how that one conviction for the side of genocide of the most serious crime the most you are entirely this is south africa as if you can say apart it isn't genocide it was the whole marinette for you it's not just a few times it is more than genocide where is your truth and reconciliation commission it is it has been established and we see that is that for you years apart and this not by for us it is so your quite happy for convicted war criminals to come back to your country and play their part good ole boy is good all the most efficient pulls it allows that yes if not then no how should future generations in africa protect themselves from people like you. this should the most happen is their countries grown dictators like you. i think

letting me dictator is wrong. is wrong this is use is not my my people so i think this is misplacing again. this is from yourself. thank you very much for being the culprits themselves.

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