right ready for rugby ball all the way to rely on rhetorical solar. we're not totally accept this piece of. wood for the spray he's cleaning up your mess isn't a no no how do you sleep at night i have a basket an apology for my people living in the middle east from ethiopia has come a long way in a short time there's a new peace deal with eritrea and a new prime minister apparently determined to bring accountability for the human rights abuses of the past my guest this week here in brussels is his previous highly mariam decile and who denied for many years that human rights violations had taken place and whose government locked up many thousands of political prisoners as

you know showing for the torture that was perpetrated and the lives that were ruined during his time in office. haile mariam welcome to the conflict zone thank you so much thank you for having me ethiopia has a new prime minister now of the who took over after you resigned last year he's now received the nobel peace prize basically for undoing many of the evils of your government and doing what you couldn't do within a 100 days. don't you feel something of a failure when you look at what he's done. i know that because. i have done my share to bring this change to happen. premise that abby

has not come from blue moon it has come from the party which i was it is a dream here but he's begun to correcting the massive human rights abuses which were prominent feature of your time no trace that is it is that my party which started the reform process and we say. the process should be a deep one to the country basically but also to the party itself so i think that is a process which yielded prime minister rabin. prime minister so he continued with the process pro reform my gender that my party and his party whether this is nobel committee cited his achievements as lifting the country's state of emergency granting amnesty to thousands of political prisoners for years you always denied there were any scrapping media censorship legalising outlawed opposition groups dismissing military and civilian leaders suspected of

corruption all the things that you failed to do when you were in office by the way do you know that 9095 percent of the prisoners released due to my office. before i left office and before i resigned so i think what i would be did was they remaining 5 percent which has to be released so the decision was a decision of the party. and i took that action before i resigned how many did you release almost all the millions something. more than 3000 or so here where there were many more than 3000 in jail yeah but it's only young people who've recently been arrested been released but the main political figures which has been that mr been released. do it in my terms before i resign in may this year the attorney general. filed criminal charges against your former intelligence chief true as

alleging human rights abuses and corruption he's gone missing that you know where he would have it i don't know i'm not in office now no information 20 other people were charged with him he had served until june 28th being. he had served you as prime minister who were denying that any human rights abuses were being committed i think you're you're lucky information lucky evidence it is my government and my party who have admitted that there has been a human rights abuse if you start here often here in interview say nobody is being mistreated we have no political prisoners one of the other you gave interviews sitting smiling across the fields of usa oh everything's fine here you know you always forget you have to understand the way how our part to operate was the way the study the way you operate with literacy than if you like there was handoff let me finish 1st if that's the case then you know that we have been historically.

we have to understand that in the 1st place this is a party fired left and you know us. when there is a communist mentality and when it is a marxist mentality there is a centralism. you do in the toward your party decides one issue even though you have differences in as a minority you take with you so you just hold the line whatever it is because you are too cowardly to say anything about what's really going all i said is that it's no excuse that sort of misplacing the whole thing is that we believe that in our party and the government that we need to reform our system we need to bring up. changes that we need to democratize our country and because that's a country always number of interest this and there is an introduction of ethnic

mobilized politics which is very dangerous and therefore we have we have disabled that we need to go or how does that in deep lead into forming our country with a person of the actual believe is in washington you didn't get it i need we're going to have a force think well if you had done that prime minister when he came in by mr abbey wouldn't have had to condemn police brutality pledged to return rein in the security services tackle what he called economic mismanagement corruption and rights abuses all of this spending fauji what is the spin off of this is also misplaced see because premise that abby has not come from a blue moon he has been the other way where he came from there with us he's cleaning up the mess isn't he no no it's not he's not cleaning up his mess as he's been on the hill messed up the mess you left the heart and i think this is also misplacing and i really always say that you know correctly this is our party's admission of our collective mistake and then we put in place properly he's told

things that you failed to do by november last year dozens of intelligence officers and high level officials have been arrested including people from the military run metals and engineering corporation metric on charges of corruption and human rights abuses you have ever put those charges to that speed that is the study which i introduced you know you have to be finished i mean it. november last year you weren't in office i did it you don't have any business i did it by lunch in the studies and then completion of the other studies then action has been taken the attorney general said 63 people have been arrested that's months november last year 27 for corruption $36.00 on charges of human rights violations that included the former head of mattick conflict dagny or a brigadier general over whom you did nothing you did nothing about and made that

study you lucky with this i love the study and the group of people who study the study it's charging people with human rights an orphan charge of every issue to leave or you try to rob the child to people after you said after concrete even there is a criminal investigation unit that investigation has been launched by may 10 local media said huge sums of money were missing from this company a matter of whether the girl let the let the court decide on it as prime minister he was supposed to look after the public places the military was supposed to follow your orders. and you feel seem to fail spectacularly to make them do that since you feel any remorse at the crimes you were allowed to take place when you were prime minister no i think i have resigned because i was not able to you know change dramatically whatever has to come between 2 week because no i i say fiction actually i have my own the strangeness and i have my own weaknesses and you have to

not to look into only the weaknesses but you had to also see the strength of this country has gone and you know you know that my country has been visited during my tenure by 6 of the 77 leaders and they all announced that this country has been working very hard at double digit grows and the economic. achievements where we have expected our people out of poverty the only country which has actually and. 7 out of this 8 images and now where the by the united nations by my time so i think you have to see all those positive things we have achieved last their verbal laws that over the start of the attorney general. said investigated her uncovered serious abuses by security services at secret prisons in the capital and elsewhere do you know what your security officers were

doing in the single presence i don't know those thieves wives and children did you ever ask i go to visit how can i do or if your intelligence doesn't give me information how can you know there were plenty of foreign reports that torture was going on which you did learn of it and you're good enough you're telling me you didn't know what was going on or i did it so you said miles your denials were just pro forma denials no are not going to know everything when you were in office no not at all you did you said they didn't know everything you didn't you didn't know what was going on in these prisons you didn't ask you weren't interested. they know it or fish only we know some of the appeal abuses and i have taken my time some of the actions to correct those things but i didn't know that there are you know informal prisons which has been there to eternity as it was said there are people that have been blinded and held in darkness for long periods of time others have been left infertile because of blows to their genitals there are some that had

limbs broke or women have been subjected to go rape and men have been sort of modest all this happened until your rule so i had to ask you and she was shame that this was going on until you were ruled no i am a bit of a shared that when this happened but i didn't know those things and if i knew those things i would architected them because this is a very sacred things happened well it didn't take long for this prime minister to find out what was going on so obviously nice looking in light lace and you do not believe you didn't want to look at you in mid june for displaying to our. tribe in the very hard to bring him to power and i did everything you lost your job that's why you gave up you lost control of the party lost faith in you that's why you gave up what i think you can you can say that going to be struggling to control the rest of the country because failure because of those who are out in it myself i

did it intentionally because i wanted to see that this change should come so i think this is genuinely what has happened and i did my best in paving the way for this to happen so i think that has to be clearly kind of did i did i think a big clearly wriggle of it when wimmin in your prisons during your term in office were being subjected to gang rape and men too so the money ization know that you know this even if you say you didn't know it at the time. europe. the gene to the victims i didn't want to be a political winner when they say when i resigned because that's the system which was open to me and many of you meant to the victims and apologize personally to them if there is a need to be and when you haven't done so have you i have i have to get those plans and i with we have with conciliation tools and a conservation commission established and asked process as well how do you sleep at

night knowing that this was going on in your torture centers carried out by your officials when you were prime minister how do you sleep at night if i knew that i said to you that i was there to collect everything in my disposal if i knew it but i did know that your meal your said to be a religious man from a family of pentecostalists is that right that's wrong. how others gang rape and sodomy ization fit in with your religious values no i didn't know i say if a new doesn't fit in in my prayers but he went on denying it denying it denouncing those going to every interview that that's the report they're the noisy despite the reports coming early human rights groups all over the world which you just rubbished you said that's not true they're outside as there are enemies don't

listen to them everything is fine you said i think i have never say everything is fine you said there was no mistreated us i said there was no mistreatment going on there is a problem but i was saying that my report is that it's not to the extent of what has been said that's what i see by then any case i report which i wish i was giving to the public which which was the case let's take another detention center gigo central prison otherwise known as jail or get a regional detention center in the east of the country administered in public by your special police it was closed in august last year do you know what was going on there as well no i don't know why not you knew the prison existed and you know what you were right you have no duty officer to you have no curiosity mr high among you didn't want to know what was going on in your jails no it's not the kids you know that if you tell governments have their own rights and i think the whole thing is i

did my my work according to the reports they get from my intelligence and from my sources and therefore that's what what was their kids. people reported there were many of the former prison of those who said they saw people dying in their cells after being tortured by officials in this or garden jailers as it was called what should happen to the officials who carried out this torture. i mean what should happen to them there in prison fax it. just prison sentences and what should happen to you for turning a blind eye to it that depends on the legal system of the country you know i it is only simply because to take all the responsibilities but what is extraordinary is that with all the abuses that were carried out when you were prime minister you

accepted from the new prime minister the nation's highest award for service without even blushing without any embarrassment whatsoever now that you know what was going on while you were prime minister why didn't you give back a little more. why should i because i have a number of positive things i have because you failed to show all this is one part of it and it's a darn incident that says you torture is when you watch maurice walk in my in my country that doesn't explain that's not the only thing you know i have done many good things there are issues in the system which are definitely what i initiated to the form and the conduct before them because i understood that. you know before my use of mission and or stood that there are something going wrong therefore i initiated this reform and then i have released 95 percent of the humor in if you were in office for 6 years and this new prime minister has come in and

done more for human rights than you did in all the time you were there this is because they paved the way for him really the u.s. state department in 2016 published a catalogue of the human rights abuses taking place under your rule which of course you deny it but they're never known to be true arbitrate killings disappearances torture harsher life threatening prison conditions detention without charge you know minute where they really weren't but it's what they said but how can you say that you didn't know what was going on when all these reports were pointing to what was yes and whenever they knew that there are things going wrong i initiated that form and the serious reform and the before and outs that resulted where the prime minister has come into power. you said going to resign that you wanted to be part of the solution in ethiopia how can you be part of the solution when you so much part of the problem. you know i've become part of the solution because in there is

a problem which would result in procuring to be created the atmosphere of permissive outness fear in which your security officials believed they could torture but it was all right to torture go on torturing disappearing people not a judicial exodus no do you created the atmosphere in which that was possible no i didn't create the atmosphere so while crossfire is then the constitutional system has been established then anyone who's in one where there is could be accounted for but i didn't create this this point used to be environment for them it is a deep system which i was not able to look into because of my background and because of my you know i must say that are coming into the deep system so i couldn't see that when mr big came into power he couldn't wait to condemn the legacy of your government and draw a line in the old time in office quoting april last year he said that government

your government had sanctioned torture of its prisoners and said it had been guilty of state terrorism he said it he said in parliament does the constitution say anyone who was sentenced by a court can be tortured put in a guard let's say doesn't that's the rule that the government was in his eyes with not only mine you were the prime minister i was in this order by the way he was there also the buck stopped yeah he could literally decided to reform including indian ultimate responsibility highly you know do you how do you yet you this yes it is that you're trying to get around to get mike to try to get out of his relationship with them for that's why admission that you know why i'm here thank you for being here when a serious issue for you blocked every attempt by the united nations special rapporteur that should tell you or anyone has a call from a terror issued can you see or i really feel. come up from us and the only method

locked i only reason you blocked my leash to gating was because you didn't want them to find out what was going on i did and i initiated that before before my eyes that the mission a unit will undoubtedly for me is that what the result of pain is that i'm going to come to power mcconnell said so before i could overtake him to power hundreds of people were killed in the your regime and you refused to have an independent investigation led by the un human rights official if you ask the killings the last one and half years the number of killings side passed in 6 years what happened in my town if you ask for killings look darkest look that is so the whole thing is you know i initiated this new form and a year ago before my dissemination and i paved the way in for the new system you would have this in the bush was mean you say you are surely to reform you created a regime where people were tortured and disappeared and had their rights taken away

from them consistently turns i have our sense of people are the masses not needed our biases are beyond our basket an apology to my people that the region has some abusers of you know who my doubts and the deficit and democracy and that has happened i am and i still feel that and sort of for that but i can dish it out for the traditional companies not much of an apology as it really isn't a half hearted apology no it is not and you my it we are not the same you know it would have taken me into the last as many leadership programs are going to want you to spell your last phrase no i haven't lost that security forces avon's was the army they are all going to have a rest for a rest and they should know better that they should have been investigated under your time a worthwhile one to continue eyes of the others you know i could have used everything up to the. lost of my bit of fuel your spirit is

a dictatorship yet you always claim that democracy took time you always said this is a fledgling democracy it takes time and to see that this is what every dictator says like the way they just said well if you give i'll follow yourself in europe you pass through a number of civil wars before you can use the word person read to you he just says it's not our gay bar did that son hari nice this last while they show or even a york united states everywhere in the west from countries you have democracy has taken and it has not come in one shot in one day and one week and 1000000 because they can use too much of that hospital and that will continue democracy is building them over the culture here and just does everything to slow it down responded more and we've never shied away from associations or friendships either with indicted or convicted war criminals do they hold some special fascination for you these people

of which runs like mr r. by sheer the former president of the bill in august you posted a controversial picture on facebook of you smiling next to ethiopia as exiled marxist leader megastore haile mariam and then you took it out when there was a huge outcry because this man of course was found guilty in the sense here of genocide by the way i made him incidentally when i was there in some buy when he was in the president's office when i was there in the president's office when i met him and i talked to him so that's what happened in any case and you posted a comment saying i wish to see more former heads of governments and states in my country contributing their parts in different capacity of the peaceful transition of political bloc that does not need it is the officers there who did it and they say this is wrong. so you don't want mr mingus to with his conviction for

genocide to play a part in the new ethiopia i think if we go through true isn't it a conciliation commission and if he is also given the chance to go to apologize and then anything what the through senate conciliation commission bleeds into it i then that leaves the country and it's a conciliation i have a deep belief that we need conciliation what matters is whether some of the past even the future is worse of the possible mottos that genocide is not something you just you just either see by just feeling the way we really did it was delusional dr may come to explain to me please how a conviction for one of the most serious crimes on the planet would qualify mr mingus to contribute to the well being of your country howard i would imagine with a qualification like that i think it depends on how they've been conviction for the side of genocide for the most serious and probably not tell you this is south

africa is if you can say a part of it isn't genocide with the whole marionette for you it's not just the times it is more than genocide where is your truth and reconciliation commission it is it has been established and we see that it is that 4 years up our time is not before us cities so you are quite happy for convicted war criminals to come back to your country and play their part good old boys good old boy solution procedure i love that yes if not then no how should future generations in africa protect themselves from people like you they should the macadam is their country's credit taters like you know. i think levy needed the title is wrong is wrong this is use is not my my people. so i think this is misplacing again this is

a group from your side. thank you very much for being on carpets.

and knocked me out. and call me promising. never to feed me. up thank you thank you from atlanta.

thank you thank you. i'm going to go back tomorrow for good. or for a joke about the. old. because in the public perception africa is now assuming the position to which i was always entitled to some fellow you their views of if you don't. think something genuine. something. has become one of the most controversial issues. i've never seen anything like this

. we have pretty reached a new high tide peak. the prices remain. completely out of play are regarded as migrants will end up. the last time the world has ever heard me speak also claims it is some demonstrating here in the template. because times change we'll keep watching. d. w. made for mine.

this is news live from scrambling to escape the flames and mass evacuations are underway in australia as people flees the deadly wildfire as thousands are on the road all those awaiting to be ferry to safety by boat and the hawks try and windy conditions are expected to get worse we'll go to sydney for the latest also coming out.