intense does a camp like all. key mean a lot of the walking. nations and the pink. elephant story. starts january 27th on d w. let china have a lot of what you've read about the minds of most of the people of the training camp over training which reminds me of all those other traditional camps it is now called law and all that mattered much at stake in hong kong china is recent celebrations for its 70th anniversary one quite a public relations triumph they were supposed to be not worth continuing protests in hong kong and fresh revelations about human rights abuses in machine jang rachel

mark guest this week here in london is victor gao the chinese academic and lawyer and vice president of the center for china and globalization how does he justify china's catalogue of human rights abuses and the continuing pressure on hong kong. welcome to conduct so thank you for having me china has always insisted that it will do anything to avoid chaos it shot a large number of its own people in beijing 30 years ago to do that but it's failed comprehensively to address the protests in hong kong why maintaining stability has always been a pillow for china's development since the late a 19 seventies. it's failed to do it in hong kong so how close

a different ever since 1907 we're told this part of china and china has practice to one country 2 systems so in hong kong the primary responsibility of maintaining law and order is resting on the shoulders of the hong kong government and the chief executive carried the hong kong government that's approved by beijing absolutely hong kong is part of china and one of the one percent it is doing beijing's business not doing it not doing it very well is it its effect it's failed to keep the hated extradition morden was forced to withdraw that it tried threats calling the demonstrators rampant in the range them warning that a blow from the sort of law was waiting for them in the future these threats have no effect well i think there are china not understand what it's dealing with because i think there are many different ways to look at what's happening in hong kong i would say the primary situation right now is law enforcement you are talking

about a restoration of law and order in hong kong and democracy of course when the british left hong kong in 19 only 78 in up leave behind a lot of democracy to talk about but the british did leave behind deeply entrenched the rule of law traditional i think we all need to be very grateful for that and it is now law and order very much at stake in hong kong we should not be confused with been the other grievances and political pursuits in hong kong they are important and they need to be dealt with but law and order is the primary responsibility of the hong kong government right now if it took a look at the results of the local elections in november the enormous blow to turn his prestige 22 years after the territory was heard is over by britain the pro-democracy camp tripled its vote from 2015 they won 7. team out of 18 councils

none of which they previously won allow me to make several points 1st of all the district election results speaks for itself however the district councils in hong kong cannot operate without stability and evaluations prevailed none of the 18 district councils can really serve the primary purpose they are set up for you are missing the point of my question perhaps intentionally i don't know but the point is that this was the largest probating party which was forced to declare defeat for this major defeat we said we do not want to find any excuses and reasons this was starring the chair of the largest probating party this is a big blow to china's best pieces and that no my reading is very different hong kong is a democracy and there is universal suffrage in hong kong for the people of hong kong for the district council elections therefore the fact that the election results are such speak loudly for the favor of hong kong has democratic rights

people can volta whatever they want to do for the results speak for themselves because none of the persons are running for the described district council had a in the courage to stand out for violence they stood for legal and lawful means of exercising their democratic rights i think that counts so so long as democracy democratic rights are exercised the peacefully and lawfully everyone is a winner no one is a loser what we need to a pops in hong kong is violence you that is the key you ignore the fact that china's plan has been to chip away at hong kong's freedoms and democracy until they were all meaningless and then beijing reassert full control well in that that's been the plan hasn't it well a lot again with due respect i disagree why should beijing of the central government. one can. take away any liberties or freedoms in hong kong but they did

not they did mr y. like the kidnapping of 5 booksellers it just happened to turn up in mainland china the crackdown on those who led the 2014 process the highly controversial decision to allow mainland chinese police to operate in the west cullman station all this is chipping away at the freedoms of hong kong to beijing imagine that people wouldn't notice this i think we need to really keep an eye on the big picture that is ever since the 1997 hong kong has managed to keep its relative independence judiciary independence for example political system there has been no change is set or if you talk about specific cases we can go into details if you have more time let's deal with universal suffrage because that's been most controversial the refusal of the hong kong government to move towards universal suffrage for the chief executive position as outlined in the basic law even after the standing

committee of the national people's congress in beijing route 2017 could see the start of universal service with this position the date came and went so the promise hasn't happened has it and perhaps beijing never intended for the promise should be fulfilled and i think we need to be clear as to what we are talking about universal suffrage no problem with that you already have universal suffrage for the district council election in hong kong as we wish using it doesn't. it or it's meaning it's a very important that you don't have it for the chief executive despite the fact that it's promised it's in the basic law then again allow me to measure you you are talking about universal suffrage or direct election of the chief exec exactly does the united kingdom have to or election for the prime minister not all we are not we're talking about what's in the basic move for hong kong but we're not talking about what things are like in britain or in. or on mars you can play the what about

game indefinitely i'm talking about hong kong what it said was in the basic law the ultimate aim is the selection of the chief executive by universal suffrage upon a nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures and that didn't need these questions are everywhere for everyone to see the in a certain universal suffrage is the other problem direct election that the protesters are now demanding is a problem because why do you want to give something that neither the united states nor the have had 400 years is what they see that they were promised mr get out right now as you pointed out hong kong residents have freedom of the press freedom of the internet absolute dependent courts multi-party elections even with the district councils this beijing seriously think that by 2047 these people

are ever going to willingly give up you know i think the one country 2 system approach comes to an end in 24 plies only up to 2047 now remember when people were still alive and he was the key architect for the one country 2 system he said for the record that if the one country 2 system will work out for the 1st 50 years why couldn't it be extended for another 50 years so there is an uncertainty as to what will happen in hong kong after 2047 i would say everything will come to their end if for example violence continues in hong kong however if stability prosperity development and the improvement of the people's living standards are the normal things all the way leading up to 247 why couldn't the one country 2 systems apply more years ago asking me you have to talk to. beijing's leadership but if the

if if things don't go to page ings liking and i'm sure they're not too pleased about the protests and demands for freedom and the demands for china to live up to its promises in its international obligations. do you think people are going to accept life in china a crushing level of censorship what the un high commission for human rights recently called a context of increasing limitation on fundamental rights in china people in hong kong will never accept allow me to mention one point you know putting hong kong in the overall magnitude of the scale of china or whatever bad things that have happened the home of the past 6 months and things in china is is is at the best can be called a storm in a teacup it's not going to change meaningfully anything that's happening in people's republic of china at all what beijing is are happy about and adamantly is a pollster to is the violence in hong kong let's be honest as straightforward with

them no country either president of the united states will tolerate the level of violence that has engulfed hong kong for the past 6 months no country and one or of those china step in and stop it one of the. well let's be philosophical about it if you read the basic law the primary responsibility of montagne law and order rests with the hong kong government yes only failure approved government yes it's a doll sed a mandated by the basic law my point is though that if china fully takes over control of hong kong in 2047 and think so little of human rights as the un says it does do you really expect the people of hong kong to embrace the kind of life you have been chosen i mean the legal obligations and commitments the multiple maus decrees and policies in particular those concerning national security and

terrorism which the un says deeply erodes the foundations for the viable social economic and political development of society you think after having the freedoms that they have in hong kong they're going to accept. kind of life from china let's be honest about it china is in firm control of the situation in hong kong are as far as solar in t. is concert no one in the world care really 2nd these 2nd guess this point or really take kankar a waiver on china that's for the wreck or old that's do not 2nd guess about that of course are no one caja to system hongkong peeps its political system in the hong kong the capital is the says them but do you do think any while we'll realistically expect the hong kong can be misused to as a strong hold against china nope i've that day iow all the way to trudge you 47th click or go your lansing the question our us which is where the beijing

imagines hong kong would everett's that the kind of restrictions that people in the mainland after 2047 china has fall discretion to decide what kind of political sister will prevail in hong kong to more know in one evil of hall co will get in return for being subsumed into chill in or a chance to be spied on by was human rights watch chord one of the world's most intrusive mass surveillance systems whatever happens will happen in hong kong after 2047 their owners recorder of arbitrary detention torture than violations of right child you really thing the people of hong kong a sec need some a valid my life not only looking forward to that i thing in today's world shit we should be very objective and non-biased about china let's look at how child as developing let's look at china lifting hundreds of millions of people al a poverty lets you look at how or hong kong has benefited

a tremendously over the past 22 years after being part of the one country it is system after chana re exercised is sovereignty of a hunk cults to i'd as this is no make a t. let's talk about says it was the go in in the in an interview earlier in the year you cord it unfortunate censorship in china you said hopefully eventually there will be less censorship leading towards no censorship at all and i hope they'll be a day when people in china can freely watch foreign broadcasters that's pretty full on hope isn't it when you consider that 400000000 extra c.c.t.v. cameras ago alive and the unprecedented degree of intrusion by the state into people's lives that we're seeing things are not moving in the direction you hope for the what you call to was my view earlier this year it is still my view today and i think it will remain my view for the rest of my life but it's a lesson on hope business things are not going this way not lesser such

a ship may be good however every society has its own says divisions do says about look at the united states this says a lot of things that the people here in britain do not care about in britain e.u. says other things in israel there's a while ago you were talking about every other civilized let's just stay with china you admitted this you said the monitoring of social behavior of people in china does exist there are quite a few aspects of that which i personally do not like is the detention of around a 1000000 with the muslims engine junk one of the aspects that you don't personally like i visited many times of many wheedle friends islamic friends in china didn't ask you that i deal with them as brothers and sisters i think to really ask responsible questions about we need to know all the spread of terrorism and separatism and extremism. hasn't been

a terrorism issue in jail for the last 4 years why because you were the government is you have locked up people without rights and without recourse and without any redress and with the ability to challenge their own incarceration you think that's a good way of doing things we're talking about the detention and so cool. training centers which were 1st denied and then finally admitted by beijing last year the un says people were sent there under the guise of counter-terrorism and extremism policies which you've just mentioned and amid extensive limitations on the exercise of fund the mental rights. part of the. make a point terrorism just do not come out of the vacuum terrorism is the result of a process and the process is very much dominated by indoctrination and extremism for example engine john there is no denying there is an increasing level of radicalization many families actually deny their kids the right to education

which in china is considered as an offense or a crime no one in china has any right to deprive their kids mr ground war is i believe one was expressing concerns about increasing practices of arbitrary detention in force disappearance absence of judicial oversight and restrictions on the right to freedom of expression freedom of thought conscience and religion quite a list isn't quite a list also the right to freedom of assembly and movement within what it calls an increasingly securitized environment this is a catalog of rights to which your government has formally signed up in binding international treaties and which it is now violating wholesale a number of asking you whether you're proud of all that 2 points 1st of all the united nations generally speaking is in line with what china has been doing over the past 4 decades or so if there is in line with the treatment as you well know

more than 50 countries in the world support what the chinese government is doing in dealing with terrorism extremism if the inventor separatists who are hardly beacons of human rights many of which are muslim countries let's let's be honest about many of these countries. islam and many of the inquiry's states you're proud that the us china israel mind you say that all in the world no really you're proud that the un had to remind you that you have an obligation to respect and protect individual rights under the universal declaration absolutely human rights are a very very important yeah why do you think all you of your international obligations because you're violating them wholesale law if you will put it in international contests the united nations keeps reminding the united states and many other developed countries of the rights that they failed to give to their people that's honorable t.v. we're not talking we're not talking about the u.s. i know you want to evade it. you cannot just have

a listening isolation we can have that we can absolutely talk about what china is doing in cian jank in isolations but one of the requests for information submitted to beijing last month by 12 un human rights rapporteurs was was this please provide detailed information on the judicial oversight and control exercised by judges of a person's placed in riyadh facilities following charges under the counter terrorism law let me make a bet with you this request is never going to be answered by beijing is this i hope with my help or with other peoples help you can do an interview joe i can help you to read some of these yards from my question it's not because i feel a thing is not go lawrence of this because there's no judicial oversight over the 1000000 or so we get in detention most of the inmates have no the been charged with not convicted of any crime nor been given any chance to challenge their incarceration as i said earlier and that's fair and you're happy with all that no i

think you'll miss called the situation radicalization is a process at different stages of radicalization you need to come up with strategies to deal radicalize the population including for example what i emphasized for the red. thought denying any family is misbehavior of depriving their kids the right to go to school thanks to leaked documents and despite considerable attempts at secrecy by beijing we now have massive amounts of detail about what these institutions are doing including a leaked manual for officials running and operating these places one of the documents that was released describe detailed controls on each individual the student should have a fixed bed position a fixed queue position a fixed classroom seat and fixed station during skills were strictly forbidden to be change you like this kind of repression you support this kind of repression.

you may call it repression or you may call it educational or training school or teaching methods if you go to a cadet school for example if you're training for the u.k. military you need to exercise alcohol as hard as a comparable mr gubb we've also seen beijing's instruction to officials in these camps implement a view of norms and discipline requirements for getting out rocor washing going to the toilet organizing and housekeeping eating studying sleeping closing the door and so forth you're trying to build robots inch in jan what you're read about reminds most the people of a training camp over training that reminds people of the camps and the mind of people of concentration and what will serve china to concentrate people up to let's say in using only at number 1000000 or 2000000 this is not a concentration camp as far as based on my personal knowledge of my dealings with

the wiggles brothers or sisters in this is not what you are describing i know of are cries from reality. not not according to the evidence seen by the un and democratic governments around the world these camps let's call them concentration camps they violate all basic rights and freedoms belong to human beings under the universal declaration of human rights which you are supposed to abide by not i would say that china fight this war against terrorism let the british fight your war against spread terrorism and let's stop confused terrorism extremism and the separatism with what you would call human rights no longer is even if one accepted your pretense you have taken away every right that the set you have illegally incarcerated these people without trial and without any chance for them to challenge that incarceration that is illegal i wouldn't that doesn't need me. to

your international obligations i would say you're imposing your view of the rule of law onto china let china have its on the rule of law this is the rule of law all offenses at is as it see fits we are not talking about britain well not talk here by your united states we are talking about a sovereign government with legal rights to deal with the threats of terrorism and extremism we're talking about lies asian that's the key in china no one in china wants to be a victim of terrorism is the guy you allow you know that he was a should according to the doctors you're looking at people who harbor vague understandings negative attitudes or even feelings of resistance carry out education transformation to ensure that results achieved that's the instruction that beijing gives you look here people who harbor vague understanding is that all they've ever done wrong and for that you put them in one of these camps and throw

away the key so you're wrong and you think that's ok and i think a lot of people including the u.n. and human rights organizations believe that you have forfeited the right country so you are quoting something as if it is from the bible no this is not sacred things this may not be verified already using your standard of journalism i hope you'll be realistic it's an validated by considerably people than journalists i hope you will really verify this with me it's not all journalistic standards you're telling me it's not true i don't think this is true because what china is faced away with is terrorism radicalization and separatism and extremism that's the menace in china which is also faced by many other countries in the world look at the bombing here in lebanon look at the terrorist attack against innocent people you really want to have this kind of terrorist. disease prevailing in your country or europe

we have a common common task to do and you are united against terrorism and that's a challenge not faced by china long that's a challenge faced by mankind as a whole. you're a lawyer mr geiger yes you're even a lawyer who's licensed to practice in new york absolutely do you think being out of this kind of behavior by you government is acceptable that's remarkable i think the libbers test is to put that end to terrorism that's the key not why shouldn't. draw and human rights wholesale that's what you say you want that's aleikum spend our time with the reality on the ground probably have no shame about these conditions protecting those human rights protecting human rights will always be the most important thing as promoting democracy but on the other hand fighting terrorism and extremism is equally important in china as well as in your case of

everywhere else in the world that's the bottom line we need to work together to fight against terrorism. but to go thanks for being.

every 2 seconds a person is forced to flee their home. the consequences are disastrous. our documentary series displaced. the venezuelan exodus. people are starving who wants to survive it needs to leave. the country for.

some 15 minutes on t w. a a. or. my 1st boss was a sewing machine. where i come from women are bound by this notion to remember something as simple as learning how to write them by said those isn't. since i was a little girl i wanted to have a bicycle off my home and it took me as the months might have. finally gave up and mentioned by me on my side that and returns with the sewing machine sewing i suppose was more appropriate for those than writing i'm biased as knowledge i want to meet those woman back home who are bones by their duties and social goals and inform them of old dead babies and writes my name is dave out of the home and i

work ads to them. i'm not laughing at the shit well i just sometimes i am but most of the things which are the germans digs deep into the general culture of looking at the stereotype question but interesting to see from the country that i now know the time. needed to be taken as grandma down to go it's all about their new primary job join me to meet the gentleman from d.w. post. in the army of climate change. funds from the students who. want to do yours do they have the flu future.

g.w. dot com for candidates or the media. could cut him short. this is deja vu news live from berlin and more extreme weather will be part of our future australia's bushfires are just one result of the warmest decade ever recorded in a major new study all is saying that the carbon dioxide released by those fires is making global conditions even worse also coming up. the speaker of the house nancy pelosi zines articles of impeachment against president they were then delivered to

the senate where the trial will take place only the 3rd such trial in american history.