you have a question. you could have fired or give a sample of all the way there are. we're just learning this through those who feel. the situation in the middle east remains explosive after tensions between the united states and iran took the region to the brink of war the what about the other big players such as russia when for instance german chancellor angela merkel wanted to talk about efforts to resolve the ongoing crisis in libya it was bloody putin in moscow that she turned to an old washington until not too long ago a waning force in the middle east russia is now one of the most influential voices in this turbulence arena but of course it's a both of policy to the conflict as in syria and to peace efforts so our question

is moscow in the middle east putin kind of the power broker going and going to. meet. up. with us very much for joining us on to the point and my guests here in the studio include reggaeton am who is a freelance journalist from lebanon she says russia wants to be in a position to ease all worsen tensions in the region that will deepen migration flows to europe and continue kyra saying america and its allies also with us is about american support for t w s russian department and he points to a russian saying that goes wholly space is never seen russia has filled the vacuum created by others. and a very warm welcome to to daniel gallup editor in chief the middle east course in the senate and die. new argues that in the middle east russia is making very

efficient use of it's very limited resources which can't be said for countries in the west interesting or good thank you all 3 for being held like to begin with you are again a full blown war between the u.s. and iran appears to have been avoided for the time being but where does that leave us in the middle east and what can you tell us about the role of russia in the region. well of course i mean if we look at the last few years in the middle east of course we can all agree that russia has gained more weight. recently especially in places like in syria and recently in libya but i think this is all because the americans have chosen to step back from the region at least militarily and at the moment politically they don't seem to be interested in and they couldn't get any any peace deals or be an involved watch so when the russia saw that void i mean we can go back to this in the and the course of the conversation to speak of all

started but the russians saw an opportunity it's can step in and try and really embrace the fact that it was once a big power in the world at once a big power and and really still a snow is once again the german magazine cicero described russia is the central actor in the whole mideast region is that over the top reserve plausible i think it is a little bit over the top but i mean it is as i said it is only a big power of the moment because the americans have chose to be if the americans decide to step back and decide to be involved as they once were then that russians would not stand a chance to stay the big powers the big the big players they out at the moment but want to be russia is resurgent at the moment moscow has a real clout in this region were without sidenote how do you explain the return to power and influence from your perspective while russia has a very strong and very long history of military presence in syria and libya from

the soviet times russian troops and russian lupin's were delivered to syria from late fifty's years very based there until the collapse of the soviet union the same for you the russian government soviet government was one of the 1st in the world to recognized. qaddafi as a huge of state after the putsch and the year after. the troops are present in libya as well so it's a quiet historical link but they're both country and now we have 20 years in the power in russia last year in december so huge doing step by step reconstruction of the russian influence not to the soviet level of course but i'm quite agree with you that the russians trying to use this not limit not putri sources it's have but limited resources but very very smart very very smart indeed i just want to. be there at the beginning of the show we have this quote from you holy spaces never empty was not all of it it's about if you leave some space it's not about

geopolitics it's a general life. rise from the altar iceman's saying if you leave a space which is very attractive to many parts many many participants someone will jump on that so if america leaves a place or europe leaves someone didn't jump jump in and try to them in the space and it's those not only for middle east which i'm done you know there's a certain fascination for russia even after mitt among the analysts and on the people that are dealing with the middle east professionally. sometimes middle east experts are jokingly saying that the reason why we are so fascinated with russia is because one of us made it to the top of the country because i'm talking about of course they used any pinnacle was a very influential in very influential soviet leader and it was a middle east expert and very eloquent arabic speaking but beyond this. there is myth and there is reality of course and the russian role is important but the

strategies and tactics that russia applies are not so difficult to decipher and secondly i think it would be easy to follow the example of russian policies in the middle east europe could do that very easily but then it would have to stop caring about human rights it would stop caring about values whatever the russians challenged is well used and it would have to abandon certain of its foreign policy principles and that's the dilemma because what russia does basically is stabilizing governments they consider legitimate and. we all know that something else about values based policy of course of course going in this is something that is completely i would say anathema to the russian foreign policy but it's something that they consider hypocritical and a western idea and so they say our the foreign policy argument goes we are with the

state we are with the government regardless of the expenses and. russia is not limited by the limitations or so from intentions of the rest of iraq there's no talks of democracy in russia or very close russia is very pragmatic in their foreign policy. having that's why is that actions were never bothered by all the massacres that happened in syria. and they were facilitated by the russians made when when decided in 2015 when he said the russians were never told that are you talking about the russian the russian policymakers the russian the love the leaders i mean because of the russian going to happen about him that i mean that russia is no one who is a true bite i am if you look back and the 2nd foreign judge now it was the same script apply to syria which was a player purchase now in the 2nd for the you will destroy the moderates and then you destroy the extremist and then you establish is the beauty of it nor

regret in no no cost and that the people involved by the way because it was putin's war at least with regard to the 2nd message is not no it's not a new script it's quite by all for us or us i have no limitations and all very nervous but just clearly russia is here to stay reflecting what you were saying about the just the fascination that some german commentators have with running germans by the way not only journalism i want to see one senior german spokesman recently describe russia as indispensable so clearly russia we mightn't i don't know i'm not i'm not sure who's going to break the lines here for the let me put in today but we might not like. policies but the but they're here to stay i think i think they have put in has and this is probably the strategic i don't want to call it genius but the strategic advantage of prudence you did. genius because i want to step back for from this i don't want to express that too much admiration for this

because if you analyze it is actually not so difficult he put himself in if into a position from which he can benefit from all the mistakes that others make in the region and he can somehow he can digest. something that the others cannot and and by and by these means project power and this is a situation of really unique situation and also what is interesting is like we've been probably will talk about the war of narratives that a boil on is the syria war is it a western conspiracy as many russians believe is it just like a terrorist uprising an attempt to destabilize the region or even to to oust russian interests in the region we have a lot of narratives going on my fascination my main rather intrigued i have to say also when i travel to moscow to talk to russian experts about this is that it doesn't really matter there is kind of you know there's a little bit of that is that they seem to be comfortable with with with these conflicting narratives as long as there is no western narrative that dominates and

. i find this very very interesting aspect of foreign policy also if it is it true that assad used chemical weapons or is it not true is it true that there is a conspiracy against the syrian government because the western countries wanted to allegedly establish a gas pipeline from the gulf to the mediterranean which would compete with russian interests no matter there is a lot of theories and a lot of narratives around and my feeling is that russia the russian the official russian state let's say or proponents of the official russian state narrative can very well live with these conflict narratives because it helps them to project their power in the region. putin may or may not be a genius but he has certainly played a game. with this slow withdrawal over the united states from the middle east as a result russia is now perhaps the key broker in the reach. in turkey

syria iran israel saudi arabia in egypt and libya. strongman around the mideast are building closer ties with vladimir putin. and he provides incentives in syria his troops are fighting to defend the bashir al assad regime in return russia gets to military bases on syrian territory nato southeastern tip. countries in the region are buying russian weapons systems even nato member turkey. russian nuclear plants are also in demand russia provides them fully operational to egypt for example and promises investments along the suez canal. offers diplomatic services as well mediating for instance between arch enemies iran and saudi arabia and between syria and turkey and between libya and german chancellor angela merkel. is russia ousting the united states as power

broker in the middle east. just in the moment we were talking about the methods being employed by the russian leadership. tell us a little bit more about what the strategic goal will to take. first of all is mention. original power. in the middle east through the old soviet. influence and in the region. security. there's no talks about democracy or human rights from russia what they want to mention as well. that in the russian public opinion syria doesn't play a huge role so there are politics do whatever they want in russian army as well on the ground but there are public is not as much as concerned of the happenings in syria or in lieberman as it wasn't it's now not concerned or they are actually

applauded then and not really concerned there or time to time have messages from russian contractors killed didn't leave. on the office the level denies the involvement because it's a private contractors which are on the ground in libya from private companies. their time to times news about people killed or injured in libya and deliver it back 2 or 3 men to russia but on the office the lives of the numbers are very low really has to be said you know i have no children i'm because the russians don't deploy like massive troops like the american did in the movie miracle where they just send mainly experts and they deploy small number of troops maybe because russia is incapable of sounding like a big number of troops its military is is lots of very well. went to. lax way behind the american military when it comes to to financing it so it doesn't really have that much money to be able to fund all its ambition in the region and

militarily it's cannot it's cannot support that i mean aside from sending experts and trying to politically play on on. use its leverage to mediate between some parties it's i mean it's better if it's aimed at the moment from it it has managed to has to be said that as managed to build their relations with the gulf is was with the gulf countries especially saudi arabia despite all the differences between them on several topics to start was in syria but they managed to agree on the oil market to be able to work together to stabilize the almighty what kids and look at the other one and this is you just read out like how they're dealing with their potential opponents and enemies the the friendship. or let's say the very very personal and at the same template technical relationship between the other one and putin is something really fascinating to see like how how those heads of state in the region that they're really afraid of russia because they say like the americans are far away but the russians can do us harm and we and we know they can do us harm

and so they go to moscow and this is a fast and if you look at the syrian opposition the syrian opposition has i think rightfully claim that russia is responsible for many casualties many dead in the war in syria actively and directly responsible however the syrian opposition has always gone to moscow it's always been open to moscow never tried to alienate moscow too much because they were afraid but also because they thought that it's absolutely important to to entertain relationships with moscow the russians have also brought up the negotiations and the attempts to bring in some political solutions alongside the military solution. the constitutional committee in syria that's being much talked about that is currently meeting or not currently but that that has started rethinking geneva thought it may be fail fail to be 40 even started but this committee was a russian project and the united nations implemented this because they said if the russians want this we will do it in order to be able to have the initiative i'm sure doesn't mean that it's successful as as we saw with you you're right that

might have been mr davis but doesn't mean that they're capable of making them get to places all right but that but that they're trying to offer a different scenario i've recently talked to a. pretty i think influential foreign policy expert from russia who said the war in syria for us was a successful startup but as every start up can be considered a cynical statement about if you look if you look at what would have the consequences but whoever he said it was it was a successful start a bit like every start of you need to have an exit you need to sell it and we haven't actually found a way to sell the start of successfully so they are trying they're trying to keep the political process ongoing also to gain international legitimacy and at the same time during this to. and they have blood try to find a military solution but i think the russians are honest about something they know that just conquering every bit of syrian territory with the bashar assad is not enough they need to find a political solution and they haven't found it so soon extend as a vacuum within a vacuum and a lot of people assigned to read the europeans should be doing rule is there are

they right to say that and if yes what should the europeans be getting up to well yes of course the europeans should do more because the you get these are the 1st suffers of anything that happens in the middle east and we saw the consequences of the syrian war on europe that it did not did not suffer from from the consequences it was germany particularly that suffered from the over 1000000 refugees from syria that's came here so of course that it does need to do more but if we look at the history of europe europe's relation with russia it's been really like nonexistent because we were the member in 2008 when russia had her small war with georgia and it was over a few days europeans the response was not like major and then there was also the other russian's adventure in ukraine when they took over crimea and they had opinions only imposed some small sanctions but russia 5 that it can get away with anything it's doing basically and this made her feel empowered to go further and

start in syria as well in the 1st kind of country which was harmed by war in syria was not germany and it was turkey which got to millions of refugees red letter and if you want job done like why don't our jordan almost 1000000 but there was no much talk and you're about the refugee crisis in jordan lebanon oregon turkey before 2015 because it was not right it was a very moderate not that all cited politics national do not let's just talk continue on the theme of the europeans they have tended traditionally to standards so i didn't leave the dominant role in the middle east in diplomacy at least to the more influential americans take one look at the current conflict in libya and you can see why after all they don't even have a shared strategy. libya's defacto strongman is cozy for have tar the field-marshal was long and of the cia. he and his libyan national army have brought large parts of the country under their control and that the islamist

militias now his troops are poised to take the capital tripoli. internationally recognized as libya's president. but his power is limited to the greater to poli area he receives military support from turkey and libya's former colonial power italy. but france and russia back qatar. denies sending military support. if there are russian citizens there they do not represent the interests of the russian state and do not receive money from the russian state. in the coming days the warring factions will attempt to negotiate a cease fire in berlin. commit squabbling european players and russia agree on a common approach to libya. the crisis in libya. together calling for us back to libya peace conference in berlin this coming

weekend what can we expect for realistically you know well both both have so far failed in their endeavor to solve this conflict and it's interesting that our now standing together russia has tried to broker a peace deal between. russia will support the general. operation took you on the other side. refused to sign this. for the moment. with a cease fire let's say he said he needs to get the backing off his tribal allies in libya before maybe he didn't want to be seen also as as a servant to russian interests and like show that he has a certain degree of independence however the german approached. was to talk to all the parties involved the united arab emirates saudi arabia turkey russia egypt algeria. france and italy and others so to make sure that they do bilateral talks with all of these parties before somehow understand their interest and then bring

them together to one table and this is happening now i think there is a realistic chance that they could force the warring parties into a cease fire because the government of the internationally recognized government has has no option has to agree with it because it's militarily very weak and then on the other hand maybe. all 'd his supporters if he refuses to sign this cease fire but what we're not sure about to what degree his supporters is that cars are honest about about this because it could very well be that the speculate that huffed are would conquer tripoli the capital of libya and then goods just like broker a cease fire according to his own terms and so they have to make sure that his supporters his backers are really honest about wanting a ceasefire and then i think this conference can ultimately be successful. yeah i mean this is another this is in

a tent actually by russia to prove that it can broker a deal it is or it is a big player and it can be seen as a mediator and working together with germany could that be a template for other peace initiatives or peace and food in the region while the germans or the russians have a good worker relations anyway it's a little it's a growing relationship. to the noise of the americans mostly but i mean we didn't we have to not forget that this process is also headed by the united nations and the united nations have seek the help of the europeans when it failed to get an agreement in the in the security council because of the big divisions between the russians and the western allies so yes they could i mean this could get to places and if it does then russia would feel more empowered basically as a big player on the international scene. we come back to the same question of vladimir putin is he a war monger over a peacemaker not has been the theme of the show i'm very interested in in the light

of these initiatives around libya and possible other will and issue tubes you know tell tell me about him what his role really means i think this i mean thing burning there will be a success for russian diplomacy because putin or us is back on the north stage the summit will be huge no no reason the how the result of the conference will be if any results at all but it's distracting the public opinion in the war from the ukraine from the crimea on the book involved in ukraine going that they're going to mark normandy protests it's completely gone you know talking about iran syria and libya and it's a war politics and middle east is much more important to smaller regions and it is to me your principle in this part of the russian political argument it's a success. but what's got me the price we should be we should really be aware of this and i think and it's realistic has also. put in will asked for a price able ask for for a compensations was effort also to support

a european initiative that is going to be set like he wants to talk about sanctions against russia because we always talk about sanctions against libya against syria but let's not forget that what is really harmful and really hurting russian establishment let's say about russian leadership are the individual sanctions against many russians because of. what happened in ukraine and in crimea and i think if the russians side with the europeans in their peace efforts they will. peons will will have to pay a price for that and i think that's what putin is going to demand and probably has already started to look forward to going through to the weekend indirectly to just one more question that we said that we would come back to you we've got trump the impulsive american president theoretic american president we've got vladimir putin the opportunistic russian leader if you so will the genius the dark gene. this who is these 2 gentlemen is going to whip out i mean definitely out of the traps administration have made it much easier for russia to be involved more in the

middle east of course the started before with obama when he broke his the deadline threats and he didn't offend syria but made it much quicker when he decided to pull out his the american soldiers from syria and left the scene for their actions or who is going to weigh in depends if trump wins and other ones the elections next year again. is going to stay in power. for. the one thing we do know for sure apparently. we speculate speculate. the situation in the middle east. very much for joining us on to the point today. showing up.

tomorrow.

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a person is forced to flee their homes nearly 71000000 people have been forcibly displaced the consequences from government to say stress were documentary series displaced depicts dramatic humanitarian crises around the world you know a. good thing we don't need and i didn't go to university to kill people. or to have my boss come to me and tell me to kill someone to get my and if i don't they'll kill me. she can feel for their lives and their future so they seek refuge abroad but what will become of course kristie behind it's it up a little my husband went to peru because of the crisis that the wanted that if he hadn't gone there we would have died of hunger that madonna down the law because this week to.

play. the bass player. this is d.w. news live from berlin iran's supreme leader heads out of the united states leading prayers for the 1st time since 2012 ayatollahs becoming a dismissed president trump as a clown wants to push of poison back up into iran's path also on the program. of libya's rival leaders as well as many world leaders to attend a peace summit a major peace summit in butlins this weekend they're hoping to secure a lasting cease fire in libya to many years of conflict.