both the trip believe both to the internationally recognized government and to tobruk bengazi. crowd and if the oil exports are stopped it's not only. damage damage done to the government in tripoli but it also means that general huffed on his side may have. income from the oil sales something i think that even he will not be able to keep going for a significant length of time michelle i hope you're still with us here you know one has to temper one's expectations when it comes to these kinds of talks particularly when the emotions are high and there's so much at stake but what's next what if these talks don't. produce any real fruit what's next. the question. be. heads of government that are sitting around in the

chancery behind me today around the table to discuss libya are simply too high ranking to not produce anything today there has to be an outcome because everybody's credibility is on the line to a certain degree but i dare say that germany that the european union has the most to lose because this could be the next crisis on its own doorstep the united states russia can see that literally with a bit more distance russia particularly being rather comfortable with unresolved conflict situations and the european union not being able to afford a further destabilization not just of libya but also the particularly the sawhill region where germany has own troops very few where the french are fighting with a much more robust mission but there where there is a recognition and it could come come about the defense ministry laid out several

times recently that more engagement will be needed in the future this could be mean more german boots on the ground it's unlikely to really increase under the current machall government with the current coalition partner the social democrats but having said that there is a recognition that europe here has to act together but this is all only theory unless. all sides will be able to some degree give ground on their particular economic and strategic interests in libya and this is a rather tall order when you look at the 55 point document which starts about has obtained a copy but there will have to be i mean they don't government refused to give some kind of benchmark on from when on words this conference would be a success. it would like to focus on the very fact that bringing all these sides together already is one. and it is to

a certain degree but at the very minimum we should be able to expect a. a military standoff a cease fire that can transcend just these this rather tense week leading up to this conference and ideally also at the u.n. weapons and boggo actually being implemented meaning that all sides recommit to it and just to illustrate how complex this issue is tacky has done a deal with the un backed government over oil exploration in the mediterranean which also includes the delivery of weapons from turkey to libya which under the un weapons and boggo would simply be illegal so there is actually more question marks here the more you look at the issue than solutions so time just take a step back and focus on the very minimum which would have to be

a cease fire that last for a significant amount of time to figure out how you can get out of this complex situation and michelle you mentioned you mentioned turkey but there are course also reports that france is has been involved in russia has been involved in in in sending troops mercenaries etc to fight in this conflict so i wonder it's not really overstating it perhaps it's a part of what's at stake in these talks is preventing enlarging this war that is in bringing european nations into conflict. boots on the ground is that is that not overstating things. well i think if we enter a situation where there is some sort of significant international peacekeeping force or monitoring force or whatever you want to call it and there are in fact european soldiers from various nations involved and this force were to be in some sense attacked all of the. to get involved in a conflict that would really be

a disastrous result of this but i think that is still very very far away the possibility of that even is very very far away at the moment as you are saying there are already a number of military advisors as there are cold or. some sort of military insists. involved in libya from various from various countries you've mentioned russian. missionaries these are ostensibly. put there by a private company they're not officially russian soldiers or russian forces but they are there they are also involved from neighboring sudan their. pilots probably from the united arab emirates flying. flying jets from the united arab emirates in that country there have been reports that france has been involved in some sort of intelligence assistance to general huffed at times really

has been involved in this region for many many years after all libya is a former italian colony there are significant italian interests and one can assume talian advisors of some sort also stationed in libya so there is already a very very significant number of foreign players that are on the ground many of them more of this in officially about this kind of mixture of interests this kind of crossing of various powers and their interests that is what makes this whole conflict so dangerous so potentially explosive german chancellor angela merkel likes to keep the watches running on time she likes or needs to be on time this one clearly looks like it will be delayed a little bit because we are still waiting for some very key players of course turkey's earlier one and of course of that to be a putin from from rome. they have not yet arrived but we understand that they were

holding bilateral talks in ahead of this this summit if you will. let me put this question 1st to you and then we can talk talk again to michelle yellin who's waiting outside the chancellor what might they be discussing those 2 major players in this of the actual peace talks broke out of iran has said here arrived in berlin earlier today we know that he is in berlin his plane has landed before he left turkey he gave a press conference in which he reiterated turkey's view of the situation is support for the internationally recognized government and the fact that turkey has signed 2 agreements with. this government concerning military assistance and also concerning economic interests in the mediterranean sea he will obviously wants to salvage those agreements he wants to salvage those interests that turkey is trying

to implement in that region at the same time both turkey president out of iran and russia president putin are men who are trying to increase their influence in the region and they're not interested in fighting they're interested in having this influence so if they can find a way to divide up their interests there spheres of interest to the satisfaction of both parties then they will step away from an open conflict we've seen some of this happening in syria where both of these countries are also involved on opposite sides of the conflict where they have also agreed on some common moves some common measures in the conflict and that is possible here as well so if the 2 of them sit together at a table they will talk about what is your interest where do you want to. find oil. do you want to keep. you know to what extent are you going to get

contracts for expanding oil fields for building roads for rebuilding libya after years of conflict all of this is significant money involved there's also some idea that russia might be interested in having some sort of military base in libya to extend its military influence in the mediterranean which is already started with a base in syria so they're very significant geopolitical interests involved in this and when these 2 countries try to. enforce in a sense a cessation of it it hostilities earlier about a week ago in moscow we could already see them sort of sitting on the same side of the table pushing common interests there they're really open to some sort of a deal we don't have it's a had any idea what the structure of the deal could be the shale it do you have

anything to add to that are these 2 players perhaps trying to iron out some details come to some sort of accord head of the talks. well i just want ads and i think it's pretty much marked out the particular interest but of course russia and turkey both are not opposed to having some kind of leverage over the european union and with libya further descending into chaos and then being major stakeholders that's exactly what it gives them just to bear in mind also that turkey has just received notice that is that it is receiving a lot less funding from brussels so certainly isn't particularly pleased about that and but i would also like to stress that russian leader vladimir putin and i'm going to machall have proved over this particular issue to be rather reliable adversaries in being able to talk to each other straight about libya the german chancellor having just

a couple of days ago been in moscow to go through the long list of conflicts and potential conflicts including syria but also libya particular to get both major players or the key players general have to around the table to have to it's been rather successful in recent years in particular in recent months to play a different sides along to take the benefits from different actors and make the most of those diverging interests and being able to split up the european union position here and this is the opportunity today for those size pick of the european union to find itself united on one side of the table and apply the kind of pressure that they can apply on khalifa haftar to at least agree to a cease fire or else face the fallout of having complete diplomatic embarrassment here in berlin or germany would like to see the but as the berlin

process leading to a political process and also potentially handing major player. is and adversaries like turkey and russia so more power over the european union particules of the flow of migrants so it's there are so many different layers of interests here and there's so much to unravel which also points towards what has been a missed opportunity in recent years to find a common european union line which could have saved the europeans more and more countries one by one waiting in this wall would i would say process if it was anything like that but adding their interests to this very confused situation in libya right now. you know policy is always a driving force when it comes to these negotiations but so is personality what do

we know if anything the relationship between letterman putin and. think what you can say is there for have respect for each other at least in the sense that they are very similar types of personalities they're both. very autocratic rule very. who pay a lot of a lot of regards to their own image to the image of strength and in fact that is what we are seeing here at the moment if you want to put a fact way. out of. putin making the world wait we are waiting here for them to arrive this is you know one of these. instruments for demonstrating. by by an autocratic rule how important he is by making everybody else wait for him this is what we're doing at the moment in that they are very similar and there have been times when these 2 leaders have been

fairly close to each other but around the situation in syria they have in recent years. significant clashes between these 2 very similar to. the main major clash happened when turkish forces shot stalin a russian airplane of assyria more of a spy mistake. a freeze on the relationship between these 2 countries and in fact this was only resolved when president out of one more or less apologized. took the plane as it were in other words he had to give in and that kind of standoff but within this. similarity of personality and their way of governing and so on that can also reach understanding's because i have similar ways of doing things. similar ways of defending the interests of pushing through their ideas and on that level i think

they do have. a line to talk to each other a way of talking with each other and a way of reaching agreements. you going to continue to stand by as we await the arrival of more dignitaries including those to everyone in putin in the meantime let's step back and give our viewers a little perspective libya was divided after its long time ruler of mama khadafi was overthrown in a civil war in 2011 the year since then have seen those divisions multiply and increasingly draw in a mixed bag of international players the country and its backers are split between 2 rival governments in tripoli the un backed government. and the libyan national army led by general khalifa haftar. strongman general. wants tripoli.