about the ceremony and i thought what was very appropriate and beautiful in the ceremony is the fact that the survivors were the focus there were other speeches mentioned. notably of course by the polish president. and. also by run of the lord of the world jewish council but the the main speech is with those of survivors and i think it was very for me which was a particularly moving is that they were not strident the speeches they were not full of hate and resentment they were not. political speeches in the sense of nationally orientated speeches they were not for example. speeches of propaganda speeches the state of israel or whatever they they were an appeal to fundamental human values and tied very much to the

personal experiences of the people who were who were making the actions and they were really some very profound very urgent messages in fact which were conveyed here in fact one of the survivors speaking and illustrating the fact that this is probably the last commemoration that he will be able to attend because he might pass on before the next one due to advanced age or very much speaking to the younger generation was through some of those messages well i think that's that was really very moving for me because i think it's i think it's absolutely correct it's placing the emphasis exactly where it ought to be when people like ronald lauder appeal for stronger penalties against anti semitic i trued says and actions on the one hand and education for the people i think those things are bull but they're not really the answer the answer is of course for in the peer group. people

to influence their own peers and it's a simple sociological fact that the vast majority of new nazis around the world at the moment are young males in the early twenty's and so it is really important to put people in this group make it simply uncool to be racist and it needs to be needs of peer pressure and that it's really young people who are who are here have the real responsibility when governments try to have to introduce programs of education is often simply a sort of pushback against that there was also a sense that you know we all have a role here in society and i remember one of the survivors saying do not be indifferent when you see lies you know run a lot of highlighting the fact that you're a allowed the holocaust i mean there's a sense that we we all have a role to play when it comes to avoiding complicity and the risk that this might happen again and sighed i was i was sitting in that connection i was particularly

moved by the speech of the one of the survivors who talked about. the very slow incremental introduction of anti-semitism in germany and he detailed that it was like a tap dripping and it's very easy to accept the early stages of racism. and excuse them or live with them or be indifferent to them things for you the 1st things you mentioned was benches in berlin district having suddenly signs on them saying that they were not for jews it reminded me because i grew up in in apartheid so south africa of the benches in parks in south africa saying whites only and when we protested against that i was a young student and when we protest against that that was precisely our argument that this in itself is not a major catastrophe but you need to stop that kind of racism nip it. right in the

bud because you have to see that there is a continuum from that kind of that kind of small petty racism as it were to the atrocities of our shifts and these 4 survivors i mean they took us back to their experiences they lived through it i mean they shared you know intensely personal moments of what this was like for them but we also had a very political message interesting lee at this ceremony this 75th anniversary of the liberation of auschwitz and i just want to quickly play that for our viewers and then get your reaction in 2020 we hear the same as the nazis you saw effectively in their propaganda they said jews have too much power do to control the economy and the media jews control government us jews control everything we hear this madness. in the media and even

within democratic governments. rob a lot of there we know he's a very influential businessman from the united states he is jewish he is head of the world jewish congress he says that anti-semitism is around all of us and that more needs to be done our countries around the world doing enough is germany you know after. what i think the german political establishment at least the various governments of germany since the since the 1960 s. have actually taken the lead as one would hope considering their own history of course the history of this town tree have taken the lead in for example the displaying of nazi insignia memorabilia nazi salutes hate speech and so on are illegal in this country that even to read. might come from the the notorious memoirs of hitler was until very very recently was was illegal in this country except with the only exception made for

historians and students of history who had a specific reason to do so so there has been and the present. justice minister has said that he wants to in fact increase the punishments the penalties for and the semitic language and actions i think the problem is i was saying i think you know as we know from from say the united states where there is in many states the death penalty still the death penalty high to coney and punishments don't necessarily act as a deterrent. it's i'm not suggesting that we abolished it turns you know as and penalties but that is not in itself i think the solution the only solution can be a sensitizing of people that is likely to come about as i said the main group that is here that is threatened there are exceptions of course but the main group is young white males they are thank god minority in the world are to very much of my.

honestly but the people who are best able to influence sevens is inside them or their peer group of course and i think that is where. one really must make an appeal. we have to mention though something else that ronald lauder set in he essentially equated criticism of israel to anti semitism highly critical in fact of these united nations resolutions he may mention that there were 202 of them against certain actions in israel what do you make of that particular message especially at a ceremony like the one that we've seen today because there is some controversy well i think myself that whatever you think whatever you will put political views in terms of the state of israel the middle east conflict that this is not in my view your taste to use history to do that the oldest by

a president incidentally i think did something rather similar in his in his speech also he off to saying that it should not be instrumental ised or exploited for political purposes he did it on the side in his speech i think into glorifying the role of the poles and and poland in the 2nd world war and i think that that is not appropriate in these circumstances and i think it it really can easily backfire particularly what ronald motor was doing identifying. anti semitism with and he's dion ism and with criticism of specifically criticism of the israeli government a good example i think is the present. president of germany. he has had 2 terms of office and to various governments as as as foreign minister of germany he's considered a great friend of israel germany has stood very firmly by israel and sees itself very committed to israel but he also personally for example he supports the

2 state solution. in israel where as his counterpart the israeli president does not the israeli president. its advocates a greater israel with guaranteed rights for the minority it should be possible in a friendship and a political friendship to have respect for each other and still different politically and not to be able to immediately and december's because it isn't necessary tell us a little bit more about the messages from the survivors in fact you don't talk before you do that i want to play one of the messages for the survivors this is one which is really quite poignant and then get your reaction there after let's listen i may just say one thing that is very near to me. in times like this when minorities have to feel vulnerable again i can only hope that everyone would stand up for democracy and human rights think.

what a story that we heard from this woman baker she actually had somebody speaking on her behalf reading the speech that she wrote because she can no longer see and it's a message that came up actually in the speeches of a number of the survivors that the society is only as strong as the way that it treats its minorities tell us a little bit more about about what she said this this moved me personally very deeply because i've been living for the last for 4 years in romania which has the largest. population of of roma. commonly called gypsies. and i was a pool when i 1st went to remain and to see how little in that country. people have confronted what act in fact happened to the roma in cincy during the

nazi era that's lady that was her mother was a sin to me. and. she was sent to auschwitz because the nazis not only wanted to destroy the jews they also wanted of course to destroy the romans and to be called gypsies. i think it's particular movie because today in romania my own experience is this it least today 1st of all that the majority of remains who i personally know even educated ones. tend to be racist in their remarks about roma i mean i know that's quite an allegation i'm making but i stand by it it is almost without exception even. remain and so i speak and the 2nd thing that disturbs me about the situation there is that i'm to nest school who was the remaining dictator in the early part of the war became an ally of hitler he set up concentration camps in transnistria. the room.

virtually worked to death and that's the chapter of remaining history for example that most remain ends in fact almost all of those i've spoken to have not worked through it and that is a terrible danger because that is the message of auschwitz need to confront the shamefulness of our own store of in order to prevent it from happening again and that is certainly a message which came up over and over and over again this does need to remember history that this need also to tell history accurately yes and the fact that you know to say truth is very much something not to be taken for granted these days in fact i'm just focused i mean the work which has been done by different societies different different countries in order to preserve this particular history. well there all. it's strangely enough i discovered this myself and i just recently when

i was thinking about this program knew that i would be coming on to this program that there are more holocaust memorials in the united states than there are in poland and germany and israel put together there are lots of memorials around the world memorials in themselves. i think the important don't guarantee that people will reflect on what happened even more importantly they don't they don't necessarily make people make the connection to what is going on in this society now which is really the purpose of remembering not simply to have to be as it were to be in motion and moved by what happened in auschwitz as terrible as it was but the real purpose of it must be surely future oriented and i think that. that in this regard i'll schmitz is has a unique importance. because it's not simply

a museum. that it is this is well but a museum that it shows you the historical reality it actually presents you with odds of facts that have been concerned because i remember when i went myself standing in front of a pile of those suitcases little battered suitcases with the names of children stenciled on to them these children had brought them their little suitcases with them to auschwitz and then what. put it immediately and into the gas chamber and i think to be confronted with this and to realize this is not something that i'm simply seeing on film. or is fictional or you know a fictional film this is these are the actual suitcases and there's a whole team of world expert. conservationists who are working at it all. you know the year in our streets conserving not not restoring repairing but

conserving what is the so that for example the human as used to stuff mattresses is actually one stones that are in what looks good and once you see these these piles of what we do have here especially in europe we have certain political parties which have gained popularity trying to read for him the narrative around the 2nd world war around the holocaust for example here in germany we have the f.d.a. some of the politicians there have spoken out against what they call a cult of guilt is around in world war 2 and we also have and you touched on this a little bit more in poland along justice party. they've been criticized for not doing enough to combat anti-semitism and said that they have been highlighting the polish terrorists heroism that there are goals in world war 2 where you think we stand right now at this point in history when it when it comes to the narrative of what happened and what could that mean for our future and i think you're.