keep together they're making something new in the 7. $160.00 s. on t.w. . they will not succeed in dividing the subtle not succeed in taking the people off the streets because we're tired of this dictatorship. taking the stand global news that matters. made for minds. here in london it's still all about bricks it bricks it bricks it strikes it debate the analysis on what breaks it really means is still out there. what we opted for was making our own decisions and steering our own ship frags it breaks it wrecks it we want to stay friends with our british neighbors. that is that i have to defend the interests of european citizens the fact that referendum has been hugely divisive in this country and that conflicts so special this week we'll look back at some of the

key arguments for the shape this often angry debate. one of the accusations against the leave side is that you consistently fail to articulate what the british economy would look like after bracks. last december we got a flash of real honesty from nigel farage at the oxford union when he said that i will accept that none of us knows what the risks are if we leave the european union . muppets the most momentous decision that the british being required to take in 40 years. and you know what the risks are so not sort of fly with me and we'll see what happens yes but that's it isn't it is the whole point is that if we don't

think the country is worth more than then the whole point is if we put the x in the box in the right box on the ballot paper we then have 2 years of hopefully a responsible government hopefully a responsible chain that will negotiate a at exit package which is $1100.00 words it's like surely isn't it may be you know with luck yes as is this is a huge gamble you want the british people and it's a huge it's a huge gamble for both sides and nervous times for you coming up to the referendum so nervous that you've even started talk about what it would be like to lose haven't you. well what i was actually trying to do was say that the leave campaign has made no attempt at all to describe what a post that u.k. would look like so the question i was raising was if we were to go to the rich are clearly hoped that we weren't what would the mandate be because there's

a huge difference between staying in the single market or leaving it but why residents in those you sense to feed you know i'm raising it now because i think it's really important that when people go to the ballot box on the 23rd of june they understand what leave means and at the moment there's a black hole you never stretch to fact in this campaign in every campaign some people have and no i don't think i ever did but some people on both sides used good and bad arguments but if you saw the people involved leave using bad arguments i'm using this method look there were always some losing argument the whole country was involved in this campaign so of course there were good and bad arguments that's not an excuse for misleading people and i don't think i've missed later but what about your campaign as you were leading right of the campaign some people who were campaigning for early vote used but are you only. did you want to rein them in. in life we are responsible for what we do we're not responsible for every ally who might have reached the same position as you were saying let me just revoke leave

camp you will know my son by name by audited you on the weekly sequestrated the strategy you have to answer to please do well here are a number of things that were said during the campaign that i think may now be fairly decried as false we were told that there would be an emergency budget that would have to be emergency tax rises we're now being told will be tax cuts we were told that our immigration officers just rode out our new to that the french government is now said that's not going to have as a consequence for what the other side said i'm only going to use sponsible for word usage and mind you can call your sense of what i said let's do a course 1st with what appeared to be radically conflicting claims by you and the leading lights in your campaign right after the vote you cause something of a stir on television by saying that you favored the free movement of workers to and from the u.k. it means free movement of labor you said it doesn't mean e.u. citizenship my question is at what point did you declare in the campaign vote it'll mean freeman throughout every minute of every of nearly every year well actually give me one example program me one example if you'll allow me to go well to yes on

that very program sitting around that very table with a very same interviewer at the start of the campaign i had said exactly the same thing i written a book called why vote leave which sets it all out which sold 20000 copies i hardly think i can accuse of which something this a small trickle means free of labor yes it does we will never accept to do the european union you cannot expect that if the british people or the majority of the british people want to go out of the european union that we shall destroy european union i have to defend the interests of european citizens that i have to defend the interests of the german citizens of belgium citizens who want to keep the european union because it's in their advantage what i was saying here is this it would be a bad thing for the peoples of europe if the political class of europe will. fully go for a bad deal with britain because they want to punish us they want to discourage other people leaving the club and i do not think that across much of europe that

the political elites are held in any high degree of regard so you can certainly accuse me of attacking the european elites but my goodness me they've given me some take all right hear this from the german car manufacturers you told everyone in britain of course the germans will never allow terrorists to be slapped on their car exports to britain would want it they wouldn't want it ok so what did chancellor merkel tell the world she said the internal cohesion of the e.u. would come before defending german exports to the u.k. the association of car manufacturers says the future of the e.u. is more important than short term exports which you know what this actually plays the ads even more this gives me this gives me an even bigger card that i thought i had to play because here is my i don't want your card that's what they're telling a little bit but i don't give a damn card oh come on the relationship between big business big banks and big politics is what it is they don't want things to change they like the status quo the way that it is what happens if it all goes wrong and we haven't even started

what how the negotiations do you said in 2015 you said in 2015 at the oxford union none of us knows what the risks are if we leave the european union none of us knows what the risks are if we stay in the year that is right so we were left to just you know take your bravado and your what it's very simple and your sure and some of it very simple we're left to do that very simple you could never predict the future exactly whatever side of the referendum or are you in as you said you u.k. what anyone thinks he knows the future should be retarded should have a default to be about. the real question with that referendum. was should we be responsible as a nation with its own identity for making the keep decisions that determine our future i want to get them right or get them wrong genuinely once every 4 or 5 years have the chance to hold to account the people who took those decisions or do we

think our future better to be a small voice as part of a bigger new state and i've been as objective about that as i possibly can but that's what the referendum was about what we opted for not by a massive budget what we opted for was making our own decisions and steering our own ship and that i believe to be right it off circumstances here's a context which is really important we've said that at the end of this process when people know what the breaks that deal what leaving the european union might look like we've got a few answers that we don't have at the moment then you give the people of scotland a choice and what's been fascinating as a way that's been embraced by politicians across the european institutions and across europe as well the conservative party is almost completely united around the process of leaving the european union and also by the way on leaving but it's the mechanics it's the time is where the negotiation skills we do know the outcome of the negotiations or we're talking about i can express it party doesn't give me the only advice the government the government the got just you know they want to know i

could go the government doesn't even know what is your business so we're in the middle of a negotiation my point is you negotiate that's what you do you negotiate with the european union european union has to know what it wants with this government does you say it well actually i did read the other day that a number of people in the european either don't agree with the commission for example i think it was the austrian finance minister maybe wrong about exactly what job he holds or maybe it was a commission i can't remember they actually said quite clear that he thought the u.k. was an incredibly strong position because the european union needed the trade we also had the fire he's the only one as in the who is the only one at me finish the finance minister of a very election mrs merkel the other day about making sure that she didn't screw up the negotiations because over a 1000000 and a half jobs in bavaria an export to the. u.k. of machine tools and cars alone there are plenty or as i talk to a lot of european businesses i was talking to a person the other day that does low tech product is a belgian manufacturer he would use of potatoes he said the last thing we need in europe is a tariff wall because my business will go down the tubes i'm poor lots of people i

said have you spoken to your politicians he said we're talking to them now so before we just get this out of kilter the european union is in a position where they're not altogether completely united and they also recognize that they do need a trade deal they want to hear a deal that is you know go into i know the bit more about traders and you do it not only trade deal let me tell you something about this trade deal i'm able to stop interrupting me and just let me tell you about a trade deal right you might learn something here's what has to happen as we leave the european union we will also reenter the w t o as a voting member were a member but we're not a voting member now the show jewels that are owned by the e.u. actually have a financial tag to them so unless they agree with us the amount of money that we pay to take some of those shell jewels relevant to us and lodge them at the w t o they will end up as the e.u. spending a great deal more money for less potency now here's the point they have to settle

that that's not they might they have to settle that at the time we leave otherwise they pick up a bigger bill so mr barney a knows very well that until this for example is settled nothing is settled but we are where we are there's no point in revisiting history there's no dance in the country for a further general election what their arguments for from i know from standing on doorsteps in my constituency it's for the u.k. government to proceed with the negotiations and then that the best possible deal so that's why all these things should be very much explored the my point is that in trying to get a solution that placates both remain as and brick city years britain seems to be reduced to putting forward ideas that are pretty much unworkable it's. really the best your party can do well i think that all options have to be on the table until there was an objective well i think the understanding is understanding of the why things are rejected now the fact that referendum has been hugely divisive in this country and i do think one of the mistakes made early on was not trying to

acknowledge that whilst the leave campaign 116000000 people 48 percent of those who voted had not voted for this so in trying to bring people together to explain that we would be leaving but we would do it in a way that was not going to damage completely unnecessarily people's own livelihoods and our economy that's what we're sort of catching up to now that's right spec to be debated both in parliament and in cabinet in the next few weeks looking back over the last 2 years you were part of david cameron's cabinet which approved this referendum why did none of you over the kinds of basic questions that people are grappling with know what if what if we lose the referendum what is the budget splits what if europe applies the rules what about the northern ireland border why were none of these questions thought about beforehand why can't say they weren't there weren't thought about. well partly because of course you and many of us campaigned in order to remain and it's difficult if you're campaigning for one

thing to gaze into the crystal ball and answer every question that's going to come up i deeply regret the result but the result is here is we in this country oversee had a fair and democratic vote difficult very difficult for people to accept but i think it is the right thing to do to balance those 2 now which is to say yes we are going to leave the european union but we're not going to do it in a way that is damaging if we consider back to the past a read of the vote from 2 years ago and actually i think what happens is that attention is not given so that future relationship between the 2 parties which is very important or as we call it resistance system. of democracy rule of law parliamentarism is under stress what happened in u.k. u.k. them the origin of modern parliamentarism moved the most important decision in the 1st occurrence in this century for you kate from

westminster to reverend i'm crazy misalignments this is the key sticking point the irish border the border between the irish republican northern ireland. if britain crashes out without a deal day one on this board or what happens there will be controls who put in of those controls well both sides will need to put their hands it isn't an arm themselves it isn't of course of finance is it isn't well we will need to have contingency plans for that of course so what are your contingency from day one of course you don't expect that smugglers will start importing goods into europe because at the moment we have alignment but very soon if this border is not policed well it will be of use and i'm of the e.u.'s plans than what you can believe that we're going to put these plants in the open to have 208 who are crossing yes and you propose to police all those to you when we will need to control we will need to come up against the wishes of the irish state against the wishes of the irish while

i believe made it perfectly clear what we're saying is very clear this from simon cove the foreign minister the irish government will not support the reemergence of border infrastructure on this island can it be clearer than not know it cannot be clearer than that but then they know the consequence is that then we will put the checks elsewhere than on the in try responder who who will put the change was a european union member states what do you believe what do these checks look like then who who's going to put them up from tax not from takes i mean the customs. the custom sort of already in the various member state i mean what you believe do you believe that we are going to let any good enter the european union just unchecked and so if if i respond to it then of course people on the continent will and so there will be a border between learned and other and and then i tell you that the republic of ireland is very much your complaint about the integrity of the single market and doesn't want to be excluded from the single market and believe me and this is

a calculus that many british are just ignoring is that yes heartbreaks it will be damaging for you $27.00 it would be even more for the u.k. but that is not our problem it will. probably 27 the european parliament has failed time and again to connect to ordinary people brett said is proof of that and you know i don't think breaks it is proof that we don't you know that the analysis on what breaks it really means is still out because i think you know the reasons why people voted for bricks are maybe very much connected to the reasons why american people voted for trump and incidentally to turn out if you're in because america really likes their freedom you can maybe you can hear me out the american turnout at the american elections is not very high either but it's clear that people are facing a choice of the kind of world they want to live in some people would like to go back in time take rights away from people you know end equality and pluralism and free democracy and that is really what's at stake here people are losing faith

through the here's the paradox isn't that pious level of support for membership since $983.00 but more than half the people of europe think he is likely to collapse within a generation all did well for the 1st breath also the legacy that our society south of the chaos and implosion that unfortunately we have seen in the u.k. has been a vaccination rather than infection for the rest of europe we have seen so you should be stronger so as a result of that we have seen if i can finish my sentence to you're a barrel mate took kountry of to count tree you're planning on popularity has increased even in hungary with a few exceptions the czech republic and we have seen one after the stream right political parties dropping the agenda of leaving the european union and leaving the euro so why do citizens have all these days and why liberals and greens have gone forward in your actions they want to stronger europe they don't want to weaken your so what you do is you go straight to the so-called future relationship. and you say

what is the desired end state at the end of all of these negotiations and that is a comprehensive free trade agreement between the united kingdom and the european union. so that we can try to our mutual benefit in advantage would lie or no tariffs into the forseeable future we were always going to have to you at some point agree the future relationship so my argument would be a little terrace that would flood britain's low. market manufacturing the market well that's a massive finish. but there is an existing template it's the e.u. canadian free trade agreement which was signed in 2016 which took how many years to look at well that took 7 years to negotiate it but the advantage of that is that we've already done all the heavy lifting so we all get all the heavy lifting it's a very different issue. what you would do very different well but what you do we see tight as a start point so you have a template that you know by definition the e.u.

did accept because they signed it and then you say you don't start with a blank piece of paper you start with that and then you see whether you can modify it so for instance it would be tough for the weaker position because by doing already out of the yes perfectly prepared to leave on w.t. terms while those negotiations take place but i would aspire to the fact the industry is warning that this is going to be a nonsense if you could say well you're project fantasy you don't know who did well the european elections the european elections in this country. who are overwhelmingly won by the brics party his policy was to leave if necessary with no deal the people in this country overwhelmingly voted for that so there is a mandate we can't leave russel's without a mention of bracks it british newspapers adjusting in the last few days that there are new overtures being made to boris johnson this after the european union has stressed repeatedly that there is no reopening of the withdrawal agreement is the

e.u. in the process of blinking at the 11th hour. no we have said and ordered off on the law and has repeatedly continued to say this we want to stay friends with our british neighbors that's not easy in the current political debate especially not easy in the current debate in the u.k. but that's the principle we want to stick to but it's obvious that the treaty that we have been negotiating about in the end to me government is the treated that is on the table and if you have new people now coming into the e.u. and you have a new person the pairing utilization government but the principles behind that treaty don't change it's only the one of the 5 european countries including germany and france allegedly making contact with johnson in order to see what chance there is of a new deal you know as i said the principle that we are having all together and i think it's not only these 5 countries all countries in the european union wants to stay friends with our british neighbors so the point is that the basic principles of the treaty they are they are they cannot be changed but for sure we have to stay

in touch with boris johnson and whatever other candidate that may win this battle because we want to make sure that in the long run we stay friendly neighbors we will always be there close to each other and we cannot afford a situation where we are in a bad mood hanging around together we have to face the future together even if the us me was a new overture from the doesn't it otherwise come october. you will both both the e.u. and britain will reach a scenario that none of you wanted none of you want out with the deal exactly doesn't doesn't say it's not resumption. for the last 3 years it's your presumption that there will be maybe a crash out without the deal but it's not the deal is on the table in the u.k. and the next prime minister can still subscribe to it or make propositions how we can improve it but despite what they've said and despite what he has said as change him that's obviously politics you can in politics discuss about everything but you cannot change the principles of the treaty they must remain and the principles of

the treaty are the basics of the treaty but what boris johnson or whatever candidate wants to do we have to see when they are in office here with a vis didn't the 1st thing ability european union this is was what he said within minutes of a vote for bret's it the c.e.o.'s of mercedes b.m.w. v.w. analogy would be knocking on merkel's door demanding there be no barriers to the british market didn't happen i think they said it was going to be the easiest deal in is didn't have what it should all the cards were going to be in britain's hands didn't happen this was nonsense wasn't project fantasy what we've what we've got is we do still have some semblance of democracy in this country whereby people who are dissatisfied what the government's doing come and lobby me our lobby the prime minister they lobby the prime minister directly due to the democratic deficit in the european union we're trading with germany france and all the other e.u. countries but they've given the powers of these negotiations to an another body called the european union and and it's. what it wants to get out of these

negotiations is going to be different to what our customers in those countries want to get on there is a huge democratic deficit with the people making the big decisions in the european union and not elected or not not politically account a lot of them on our elective of the we just had the largest the largest democratic vote is for the european parliament yes the large 400000000 people a lot of the largest party elected to the parliament is the brics it party. you're unhappy with the democracy for that's democracy is democracy distribution when you look around this country you can't fail to see people getting angrier more divided more bitter demonstrations are getting angry you know like it that way the country divided full of shit no invective no not at all and that's what you have as justin's to a deal has produced isn't it no it's the resistance to leaving as i said the democracy only works you had

a deal you could have left you would have been out by it was a very very bad deal and it would have it was a deal i don't think we ever would have got out of the backstop i think that was the end state for the deal got in mind for our country and they would have a fatalist in the article 50 process we can actually leave or we're in a time of along we extend it and however unpopular it is with our electorate once which sign that we draw agreement the e.u. would have a veto when we could actually get out of that treaty. and i do think the country can come back together but one thing for sure how is it going to come back to get when we lose so deep when we actually legally you're about to take a position in the arguments steering brakes it steering group well it's one of the leading breaks that anymore it's going to be you kick off in italy. and you get a deal in the 11 months while are not on everything might have a bare bones deal probably yes. you could have done a deal with the reason why why didn't he do that you would have had

a softer brecht's it and remember gross due to mistakenly i respect stop because it's killing that finished our off didn't do what she had no majority in her parliament and she could have got an agreement through if you'd let her on the backstop application of the real it i think that protecting the rights of our companies offer citizens are protecting peace in ireland was not a good priority i don't agree with a government so that was a key priority but the backstop wasn't necessary but you're going to end up now with a with an outcome if britain leaves without a deal that's an outcome that nobody wants as usually the brain yeah but you didn't want to dive they don't but going to cause massive disruption for you tell me why is my point is you plowboy it's a choice for the press if they want to destroy their country i don't think that is what they want they have to be responsible leaders it's time for responsible it's

going to suffer too that's for sure i mean there's no good writer.

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descendants. of the someone who dart in the 3rd rush starts feb 10th on d w. this is e w news live from valid security forces in thailand storm a shopping mall where a gunman was holed up the man a thai soldier went into hiding in the malls on a shooting rampage police state that more than a dozen people are dead and several more wounded after he opened our shopping center in the city of course at.