this is deja vu news of live from berlin the munich security conference brings a push for european armies and potential breakthroughs in afghanistan and between the vatican and china. you're seeing live pictures as the 2nd day begins world leaders along with top ministers and experts are preparing to talk about the future of nato and the spread of the throne of liars crimes so stay with us for a special coffee.

a michael local welcome to d w special coverage of the munich security conference the annual event brings together world leaders top ministers and experts the 1st day of talks have already shown potential progress talks between the u.s. and the taliban may lead to a fresh peace process for afghanistan and an unprecedented meeting between chinese and vatican diplomats has taken place for the 1st time in decades one topic has dominated the conference fears that the western powers could be losing their unified front on friday germany's president warned that a lack of western solidarity was fueling global insecurity today's panel is set to tackle that topic with nato chief u.n. stoltenberg and u.s. secretary of state mike pompei oh joined by pretentiously the russian foreign minister sergei lavrov we also. understand that mark esper the u.s.

defense secretary may also be at the talk today at the event in munich we have de w.'s chief political editor me. and here in the studio i'm joined by political correspondent emmanuel sheds good morning to you both michele is the 1st question is to you nato secretary general and u.s. secretary of state and the secretary of defense will make for an interesting discussion what do you expect. yes i mean one thing to salute when see a face off with sergey lavrov will be on a separate panel later on today but what we will learn is how the west defines itself and that driving force of what the west is particularly in security terms is of course nato and within it the united states now against also the nato secretary general has become even more something like a chief diplomat of the nato alliance since the trump administration isn't power

defense spending has gone up not just in nato but worldwide so we expect to see some kind of sense of satisfaction on the american side and we already expect to see some kind of response to a big speech that in manama call he will also be speaking here today the french president gave on his vision of more autonomy in europe bolstering european defense capabilities and particularly reaching out to e.u. partners to have a stake in the nuclear capabilities of france that may not go down that terribly well with the americans so everybody is listening out for that and everybody is also interested to see what the french president will have to say in more concrete detail whether there will be a concrete invitation which the german defense minister and i couldn't come on boa who will speak after him would then have to respond to us so it will be

a very interesting succession of discussions but also positions on how much strategic autonomy europe really wants or several various european leaders want and how much the united states are potentially willing to embrace or tolerate i want to talk more about the french president and i don't like on a moment but 1st i want to just caution our audience that as soon as those 3 principals get to the stage we will break away from this conversation of. bring it to you live michelle i want to i want to just follow up by yesterday frank walter steinmeier of course the german president all but scolded the world leaders and i'm paraphrasing now for abdicating their more responsibility on the world stage that's essentially what he was saying how or delegates at this conference reacting to that and might very well get more of this reaction from the u.s. secretary of state. well observers here feel that money did

was what it likes to do and what it does best is become something like a moral conscience. whose last 2 years here and 2014 as foreign minister and actually pledged more generally taking on more responsibility for security in the world at this time he was he is german president which is a role removed from daily politics he himself stress to somewhat create a bit of distance between government and himself and making him a bit more free to go down as it's perceived to be pretty hard on those key powers in the world of russia china and the united states who of course are also u.n. veto powers and just to remind them that with their great power in the world it also comes great responsibility cautioning that the multilateral order that we live in the west as it became known western values divide directly from the catastrophic

consequences of world war 2 he was very very keen on making that historic reference and warning that the world was going back into a logic of the day before yesterday as he put it with everybody thinking just of themselves and that potentially leading to the next arms race all against the backdrop of course of control regimes coming to an end and nothing that you were placed them. which really is a it's a big concern and moving away from the disarmament treaties to simply arms control is already seen as progress these days. of course material you'll stay with us mineral i want to turn to you now after this panel discussion french president and then you're on that call will be interviewed by the by the chairman of the conference ischinger what are we looking for there well you know in my near my home

for a certain time now has been trying to place himself us the leader of the free well that's something that i got america the german chancellor has been unwillingly to fulfill as a role for 4 years but now she is nearing the end of a mandate as a chance at our end emanuel a very much comes at the center stage now it's also where the 2 not is that is the 1st time in 15 years that a french president will visit to security conference that's to show how much is at stake here now a few months ago. a few months ago. talked about nato being brende they had everyone up in arms that all the a member states of nato are really shocked by those comments and yet that's led to a rethinking of diplomatic and military strategy nato for the west then amanda micro has suggested has put friends forward as

a nuclear power he off he offered france to act as a nuclear deterrent for europe at a time where military dominance is no longer a given the for the west and blocky have said if we can think of europe as a global power then it's with these appears so it's quite a strong warning so he's pushing for europe to become a more independent from foreign powers such as the us such as so rush hour or china so we very much expecting him. to put forward this line of thought at this conference and then you'll thank you for that of course you will be with us for the duration of this. lots of has happened already at this conference let's have a look at some of the key moments from the munich security conference is 1st day. of who's who of international politics. with plenty to discuss.

the german president. spent much of his keynote speech deploring the decline of internationalism and of european unity he had harsh words for russia china and the us. unknowns and stuff abundant our closest ally the united states of america under the current administration rejects the idea of an international community. great again great if necessary also at the expense of maybe. fittingly enough it was a former u.s. secretary of state from another era john kerry who made a plea for reviving international cooperation snow country can solve the problems we face of climate change cyber warfare nuclear challenge extremism disease all of these things require cooperation if we didn't have a united nations we'd have to invent it so people need to stop playing with

people's fears protesters gathered outside the hotel where the conference is being held they said social problems and climate change should also be considered major security issues and cities and i'm not. the kind of. you cannot exclude climate protection from the security issue because it's a huge issue. and war is definitely not climate neutral in. the conference continues until sunday with debates over the role of nato and the conflict in syria likely to dominate. but if you live pictures right now of what's going on at the security conference the chairman. now addressing the delegates. contributions from people who were actually speakers and the disciplines here from all over the world so i recommend it as additional reading to

our own official publications including the munich security report now we have an exciting day ahead of us we will start with nato secretary general will have to senior members of the trumpet ministrations speaking right after that we'll have a discussion with a moron who would call the president of france later this. this morning and then we will conclude with the foreign minister and state councilor of china and have an asian event just so that you know. foreign minister lover of russia was big in the afternoon right here. succeeding following following. a base edition of the german defense minister and a grade from current or so that gives you an overview of what's going on right now now. it's my privilege to well come now to this stage our 2

moderators for the morning this is terry shows. a journalist based in brussels reporting among others for. jeff ski who is the correspondent correspondent based in germany for the wall street journal. these 2 will moderate the 1st segment of this morning and it's my pleasure to invite them to introduce our wonderful nato secretary general it's. so over to you guys thank you very much. good morning everyone thank you for getting up early for what is going to be what i consider the most action packed events of the day i'll do my best to make it so anyway as everyone knows who knows me we would like to 1st introduce nato secretary general to the stage and he will be followed by secretary of state might pompei

o and defense secretary marc esper mr secretary general. thank you so much. it's always a great trip to be had a. call from. this year's conference resister question how's the west is way. indeed questions are being also all know both sides of the atlantic about this strength of our transatlantic bomb but. people wonder where we are heading and whether we will continue to go together but does this mean that we are lost. it is true that the past is not easy and sometimes we stumble. but we have not lost our way and more

importantly our values have not lost their value. freedom democracy under the rule of law they have brought unprecedented peace and prosperity and people remain and they remain the values remain a beacon of hope for people around the world. whenever they have been threatened we have stood up for them europe and north america came together to end 2 world wars countless men and women fault of question dude in the cold war and today people are standing up for their right to live in freedom from hong kong to head on. and people defused to be intimidated by terrorism and extremism from paris to christchurch. in many ways. nato is the

ultimate expression of the west europe and north america united in our vision of free and open societies and in our commitment to protect and defend one another. that he yalit is that we are doing more together now than we have done for many many years the u.s. is investing more in european security with more troops exercises and infrastructure with strong bipartisan support from the u.s. congress and while the us president has urged european allies to do more he has also recognized the enormous progress we are making. european allies and carbo are investing more in our collective defense adding new capabilities and increasing their contributions to nato missions and operations. and when we met in

london on nato leaders agreed agreed to launch a reflection process to further strengthen nato is political dimension. so europe and north america need to continue to stand together in the face of increased global competition a comically militarily technologically and more fundamentally over our way of life and our values this is what is at stake in our fight against terrorism freedom against oppression tolerance against intolerance and let's not forget that together we have made enormous progress isis no longer controls any territory in iraq and syria and millions of people have been liberated. but the fight is not over 'd we must ensure that

this can never return to threaten people in the region and our citizens at home. so therefore nato defense ministers this week decided to step up our support to iraq and to consider what more nato can do in the middle east and north africa to support our partners and stabilize the region. our mission in afghanistan is also about protecting our values which came under attack $911.00. 16000 nato troops are training the afghan forces so they can fight terrorism and create the conditions for peace. we are not leaving afghanistan but we are prepared to adjust our force level if the taller

bomb demonstrate their will and the ability to deduce violence and make real compromises. that could pave the way for negotiations among afghans sustainable peace and ensuring the country is never again a safe haven for terrorists. we also face competition from a more assertive russia which seeks to return to role those sparrow influence nato allies are responding significantly increasing the readiness of forces or poled in sanctions and counting russia as attempting to fair in our democracies. allies consulted closely over many years on their shows breach of the iron if treaty and agreed a joint response. all our eyes remain committed to arms control and to dialogue

with russia we continue to aspire for a better lation ship with our biggest neighbor. we also face competition from a shifting global balance of power china will soon be the world's largest economy. it old hoss the world's 2nd largest offense budget and it is investing heavily in new capabilities so the rise of china presents both challengers and open to that is for us we need a common understanding of what this means for our shared security for freedom and democracy. keeping our societies open free under syrians must be part of our response and says investing in new capabilities to maintain our technological edge we should not be tempted to trade

short term a comic benefits for longer term challenges to our security. so there is a competition out there in so many areas in so many different actors with so many different doctors but simply lamenting that you have lost our way will not provide us with a way forward we must have the ability and the confidence to compete. some say the answer is more europe and i agree. but this is only part of it. because more europe cannot mean europe alone. and the attempts to distance europe from north america

not only weakens the transatlantic bomb and our ability to compete on the global stage it also risks dividing europe. i don't believe in europe alone us or don't believe in america alone i believe in europe and america together. so we should not compete with ourselves and talk our differences while talking down our strengths europe and north america are indispensable partners 2 sides of the same korean. together we are harmful the world's military might and half of the world's economic might so when we stand together we can compete with confidence protect our interests and

defend our values thank you. i'm not on yet thank you very much section all right so we're going to talk about afghanistan because there is a crippling yeah yeah you could feel like i'm. sorry everyone. let's talk about afghanistan with the moves towards a potential reduction in violence. if all goes well possibly even

a peace deal this means that the u.s. will pull out troops that is likely followed by a withdrawal also of nato troops right the troops troops from nato allies but my question is if if we need to to monitor what's happening on the ground if these withdrawals at least on the nato side are conditions based but you are no longer there who's monitoring the far flung provinces how do we know if the taliban is respecting these deals and over the course of this war the longest in nato history you've now got isis as a complicating factor what are you going to do about that with fewer troops all i see is these groups rejoicing that you're going to be gone so 1st of all i think we understand that we are not leaving afghanistan and we don't have a deal but we are closer to a deal and what we have said that nato has said the u.s. has said is that we are prepared to adjust our presence if taller bonet

demonstrates really will capability to deduce violence and of course we are in afghanistan to commit to create the conditions for peace the aim is not to stay in afghanistan as long as possible. for our presence in afghanistan is to send the message that followed bomb but they will never win on the battlefield but they have to sit down and make real compromises around the negotiating table the only last thing solution to the. crisis conflict in afghanistan the is an afghan owned an hour. led peace process so actually the one of the main goals we have now is to try to initiate to facilitate start all afghan talks afghan negotiations but again we have said that everything we do in afghanistan will be conditions based we will only reduce our presence if we see that taliban is really able and willing to deliver and then we will do it step by step that most briefly and that

of course the u.s. is talking with the taliban but they use is consulting closely with all nato allies we have $16000.00 troops there many of which are. only u.s. troops and of course this is also about nato adjusting our troop levels in afghanistan if there is a deal but at the moment the taliban controls roughly half of the territory how does that look like a victory number this is about finding a compromise i mean we think we all have to understand that we have been longer in afghanistan than we expected when they went in as i was promised in norway in. 2001 when they made the 1st decision is to send the region troops to afghanistan and if they're not told me in 2001 that we are going to be there now i was at at out of question impossible but we are still in afghanistan so we need to find a way that we can in the responsible way reduce our presence in afghanistan make sure that afghanistan doesn't become

a safe haven for international terrorists and the best way to do that is to train the afghan forces build local capacity so they can take full responsibility for their own country and that's exactly what we're doing and it is not in a combat mission and immoral but we are training the training the afghans so they can be able to stabilize their own country and have the strength to make real deals with the column. so by general i wanted to pick up on something you said about the transatlantic bond and you appear to have succeeded where your european peers are struggling a little bit i mean prison macron who is speaking here shortly has tried everything ranging from a candlelight dinner top of the eiffel tower to the famous white knuckle handshake but you seem to be the only leader who has elicited positive feedback from the president of united states including on twitter is i mean this is sort of is this a lesson that you can give to your fellow leaders about preserving and sort of

improving the transatlantic bond. well as i believe in the strength of north america and europe working together and we have been extremely successful and we deliver a lot when we are able to stand together then of course i'm not naive and i'm reading newspapers so i have seen that there are some disagreements between us we are 29 different allies from both sides of the land to get with different political parties in goldman and there are differences there's no way to deny that but my message is that partly that we are seen differences before they think back to the suze crisis in 156 all the way to the iraq war in 2003 and we have seen that also the differences we have today we have been able to deal with them when it comes to what we do on the security and defense area no because the reality is that despite the disagreements we see on trade and climate change these are serious disagreements actually do knighted states is now the new bring more when it comes

to european security more troops more investments more exercises and european allies are standing up so i'm not saying that climate change trade on the other differences we see are not important only saying that the history of nato is that we have been able to overcome these differences again and again because we were able to see the importance of uniting around the courthouse to protect and defend a jogger and we actually make some progress for instance in the fight against the isis. so would you say article 5 is is still the detour in that it used to be because we've heard some very serious criticism from within you know just from some of the top. as an article for it is is the core overnight or. of course the importance of article 5 is to deter conflict nato's task is not to fight the war but to prevent the war and the best way of doing that is pirates in

the interest of any potential adversary that they've won allies attacked the whole nato will respond and by doing so we have been able to preserve peace for more than 70 years so as long as this collective defense is credible then we are safe to be in the conflict and then i think well as the best the united states and european allies are committed to article 5 of the treaty obligation but not only in words but also in these for me it's hard to imagine a stronger commitment to article 51 north america actually u.s. and canada than the fact that they have increased their military presence in europe just as we speak we have. defended you'd have 20 where you have 20000 u.s. troops deployed from the united states to europe the largest number of used troops deployed in any european exercise for decades for me it's hard to imagine a stronger commitment to articles than the reality done more troops and let me add to that that for the 1st time in our history we have combat ready troops in the

eastern part of the lines the battle groups in poland and the baltic countries. they are sending a very clear message that nato is all that is there so again for me that's a clear demonstration of commitment or to go forward so we're running really really tight on time but if someone would like to ask a question from the audience otherwise worker there's a guy jumping to speed in the back so if you could introduce yourself and give us a very quick question because we're going to perhaps can someone give us a microphone. thank you thank you i'm i'm fossilised. and i question that you don't stoltenberg is the following you mentioned china. challenge and opportunity. what role can nato play in helping avoid a rift between the us and europe in the manner in which to approach china

we already see today that there is a policy push by the united states and the 5 g. business europe is divided about how to respond what can nato do to avoid the china factor over the next decades becoming the wedge issue between the u.s. and europe. what we can do is that we can bring europe and north america together and to address and discuss. implications of the rise of china and how nato should make sure that we also are united in dealing with those challenges and that's exactly you know for the 1st time in nato sister we are now addressing china . it was me at our leaders meeting in rome we hugged statement and the nato leaders agreed that we need now to address to better

understand. the consequences of the rise of china there are some opportunities but also many challenges and i met with the chinese foreign minister yesterday and and and of course i stated clearly that nato is an alliance based on some core values the moccasins the rule of law. human rights and of course we don't always look out on all issues with china but i believe in dialogue with china and i believe in importance of talking to them on issues like the middle east of ghana stone arms control and many of the issues and then we also have both in the european union and nato developed was a guideline for basic requirements for instance investment in infrastructure including telecommunication 5 g. so i'm not saying that we have sold it that everything is coordinated but but nato is the only platform that brings together north america and europe on a daily basis to address

a wide range of challenges including the challenges posed by the road so we're trying also used usenet to ask that platform and then we will be able to develop more common responses. mr secretary i'd like to bring in a question from our audience from 100 women from the european parliament and i know this is something dear to your heart she asks how will you ensure that any deal in afghanistan will continue to promote women's rights this is something that you care about so deeply it's something that has been one of nato stated goals and i mean we can argue whether that's going so well at the moment but if you leave. who's going to be there to continue these programs who's going to protect the people who are continuing the programs as 1st of all we have not decided to leave afghanistan what we have decided is to be ready to adjust our force level if taliban delivers. and demonstrate the will and capability due to reduced violence 2nd i think that one of the great achievements we have to help to take place in afghanistan over

these years is to strengthen the role of women in afghanistan many more girls women have education and we have empowered women they are much stronger now than they were in 2001 thirdly at some stage the afghans have to be in charge fully of their own future. this is the message from from the afghans i mean the president gone yesterday of course at some stage it has to be an afghan owned peace process. and therefore we need to find this balance between supporting helping them but also at some stage and then bring them to fully be in charge of their own future we will do whatever we can to make sure. that the gains we made for instance when it comes to education women's rights are preserved. but at the same time we try it we have to try to find the last thing negotiated peaceful

solution i would do that step by step conditions based. make sure that we do what they we can to preserve the gains from it. so you can thank you very much for your time i know you need to rush there was wonderful we are now expecting the secretary of state's my computer to come up to you thank you again thank you thank you if i would say if we go. we can leave because he's going to talk. you know it's fun. to fix the teleprompter why. the speech but. then why did we keep talking with him it's just there it's.

these are these. this is you know this is very well you. think. well good morning everyone it's great to be with you all. foreign dignitaries distinguished guests ladies and gentlemen members of congress are with us here today it's my honor to be here this morning it's great to be back at the munich security conference i was just talking with some of the leaders it's been here many

times i came here with senator mccain i came here is the i direct or i'm also not new to munich and if you're looking for a good beer hall from the late eighty's i can find it. this is also the. 3rd trip to germany in just the past 4 months i was in berlin in november to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the fall of the berlin wall was an incredibly special trip for me for me personally as i had the incredible privilege to serve on freedom's front here from 196-1900 time trolling the then he strawman west german boundary during the cold war as a young officer in the united states army just a little younger not that much. it was it was thrilling for me i remember to watch when freedom one to watch people dancing on the berlin wall as we all saw people who'd been so cruelly separated for decades. it was an incredible celebration of

freedom and of sovereignty. the people of east berlin and the people of east germany knew that the end of the evil empires occupation was at hand. and our countries together have maintained our freedoms that are stopped for the past 30 plus years now we should all be incredibly proud that we've done it through the challenges of radical islamic terrorism we've done it through a global financial crisis and we're doing it now in the face of an increasingly aggressive chinese communist party. but over the past few years i've seen we've all 'd seen democratic leaders questioning america's commitment to the transatlantic alliance and america's leadership in the world. a few recent quotes from western leaders this quite frankly surprised me the 1st was from the middle of 2017 quote the fact that our friend and ally has come to question the

very worth of its mantle of global leadership puts into sharper focus the need for the rest of us to set our own clear and sovereign course end of quote the 2nd one is right about a year ago so multilateral order is experiencing its perhaps greatest crisis since the emergence of its emergence after the 2nd world war and a quote. the final one was from just yesterday. a quote suggesting quote that the united states rejects the international community and it quote. here this morning to tell you the facts those statements simply do not fact. in any significant way or reflect reality. i'm happy to report that the death of the transatlantic alliance is grossly over exaggerated . the west is winning we are collectively winning we're doing it together

let's start start with a simple fact. free nations are simply more successful than any other model that's been tried in the history of civilization our governments respect basic human rights they foster economic purpose prosperity and they keep us all secure. it's why so many people risk a dangerous journey across the mediterranean mediterranean to reach greece and italy but you don't see the world's vulnerable people risking their lives to skip illegally in mass to countries like iran or to cuba. it's why people clamor to study in cambridge and not caracas. it's why they compete to start businesses in silicon valley but not in st petersburg. it's why countries in asia went from abject poverty in the 1950 s. and sixty's to become the world's leading economies today you've all seen the map of the differences between south korea that lights that

a map with north korea in complete darkness. just look to just look at the winning westward path of other nations vietnam has moved into our same direction since the 1980 s. i'll head off from here to africa will be in ethiopia a country working hard to reform its economy it wants to be more like us today throughout the western hemisphere we have only cuba nicaragua and venezuela as redoubts of authoritarianism. meanwhile united states is thriving our political system is free and enormously resilient. our economy too strong the overall unemployment rate is the lowest in more than half a century economic growth tripping right along the unemployment rate for women is at the lowest level in almost 70 years. wages are rising for all income levels in the united states including our blue collar workers this is the power of the

western idea. you know i i saw the topic for this weekend's gathering the city of west was and this is the core theme for this year's conference and i'm sure to there many of you who would call yourself here realists. but let me give you an idea of what's real the west is winning freedom and democracy are winning and by that i don't mean just geographical nations the west doesn't define a space or piece of real estate it's any nation a nation that adopts the model the respect for individual freedom free enterprise national sovereignty they're part of this idea of the west. i want to talk for a minute this morning about how sovereignty underpins our greatness collectively. look we patrol our borders to keep our people safe so that they can continue to worship to work and to make our countries great without disruption. we honor the right of every nation to carry on their affairs as they choose so long as they

don't try to interfere with our sovereignty or do harm to our friends like we are other nations to protect human dignity because we believe in and they label rights we support independent nations our signature our signature military project together is a defensive alliance. we were specked the rule of law and we honor intellectual property rights we don't interfere in other nations elections as my 21 year old son would say in the west we just don't roll that way. respect for the sovereignty of nations this is this is a secret. and central to our success. the west is winning. but but now more than 30 years since the fall the wall countries that don't respect sovereignty still threaten us some nations still desire empire. let's talk about territorial integrity rather those nations that have contempt for it.

russia has seized premier and parts of eastern ukraine in georgia. iran's missiles explode on saudi oil facilities and its proxy forces are present in iraq in lebanon and syria and in yemen. china chad encroaches on the exclusive economic zones of vietnam the philippines and indonesia and on that point china has had a border or maritime dispute with nearly every nation bordering it. and let's talk for a 2nd about the other realm cyber security while way another chinese state backed tech companies are trojan horses for chinese intelligence. rushes to fit disinformation campaigns try to turn our citizens against one another. iranian cyber attacks plague middle east computer networks. about physical security we talked about cyber security economic coercion is at play as well russia demands

fail to in central asia china demand silence on taiwan and hong kong so that deals will keep flowing. exacts pieces of national infrastructure as payment when countries can't meet its onerous loan terms. let's talk too about respect for other countries political structures iran is stifling today as we sit here stifling young iraqis and lebanese who want nothing more than a clean and sovereign government. china is increasingly trying to co-opt officials at the state and local level our f.b.i. director or tourney general and i have all spoken about this in just the last week the trying to fit not only our federal level but our state and local officials as well and that is happening all across europe and indeed all across the world. but this matters this matters because assaults on sovereignty destabilize. assaults on sovereignty impoverish. assaults on sovereignty and slay.

assault and sob there are indeed assaults on the very freedom that anchors the western ideal. but here's the good news and there's a lot of it the united states has stared and will continue to stare these dangerous threats in the face and we will not blink. we're protecting our citizens we're protecting our freedoms we're picked acting our sovereign right to choose how it is that we live. in the united states has worked diligently to deprive the islamic republic of iran of diplomatic sanctuary and financial ability to fuel its campaigns of terror both in the middle east and right here in europe the united states has woken up to the world or china's unfair trading practices impact us the chinese communist party's newly aggressive turn and its military and diplomatic efforts that confront. the united states has armed ukraine to help that great nation defend itself from the russian aggression as work with the baltic

nations on cyber security to defend against moscow's repeated cyber attacks and and as a brand new statement today of our support for stopping to prosperity and energy independence of our european friends today i want to announce that through the international development finance corporation and with the support of our united states congress we intend to provide up to $1000000000.00 in financing to central and eastern european countries of the 3 season initiative our aim is quite simple it is to galvanize private sector investment in the energy sector to protect freedom and democracy around the world. now i would ask you as i go back to where i began are these actions these american actions are they consistent with the claim that america has come to question the very worth of its mantle of global leadership . consider to what we've done alongside each of you. what we've done to support nato in particular the united states is urging nato on to $400000000000.00

in new pledges we did this because our nations are safer when we work together and when we feel the strongest forces and capabilities the united states has to with our allies undertaken the most significant reinforcement of nato eastern flank since the cold war. the united states has restored credibility arms control when we withdrew from the eye and after 80 with unanimous nato support after russia repeatedly violated its terms. these are just a few signature efforts of american leadership with our partners we always work to bring allies and partners on board with everything that it is that we do or leading for example defender europe 20 and exercise along their allies the war just deployment of u.s. base forces to europe in more than 25 years. united states as marshall nations to help us protect the waterways of the straits of hormuz and to defend freedom of

navigation throughout the south china sea the united states to has worked with international sanctions. global sanctions to prevent north korea from continuing to develop its nuclear weapons program and we've worked to bring young inconsistently back to the negotiating table we've led 81 nations in the global fight to defeat the isis caliphate we took out al baghdadi we took out the leader of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula just this past month is this an america that rejects the international community. and i know of particular concern in this room we've pursued the mission of protecting sovereignty in the multilateral context a few examples united states support of the organization of american states in its efforts to revive institutions to go back to its mandate and improve its effectiveness leading a 59 nation coalition to oust major oil and honor the will of the venezuelan people

. and that is states is leading on the environment as well the international energy agency's latest global emissions report from just these past few weeks found that america's energy related c o 2 emissions declined by 2.9 percent in 200-1000 in spite of significant economic growth. the united states has convinced the c 5 plus one to bolster central asian nations sovereignty against russian hedge may and chinese economic pressure the united states too has warned the arctic council about russian and chinese designs to exploit the arctic for unfair game something i know we care about collectively so let's be straight up the. united states is out there fighting alongside you for sovereignty and freedom. we should have confidence in our alliances and our friends the free west has a far brighter future than illiberal alternatives we're winning and we're doing it together but the menace clearly on our side we've got to do more don't be fooled

don't be fooled by those who say otherwise when so-called iranian moderates play the victim remember their assassination and terror campaigns against innocent iranian civilians and right here on european soil itself when russia suggests that nordstrom to is purely a commercial endeavor don't be fooled consider the deprivations causing the winners of 20062008 and 2009 to 2015. when while we executives show up at your door they say you'll lose out if you don't buy in don't believe i. look i know it's not without cost to be courageous to stand up for our sovereignty and get it but it's never been the case that this was free. naimi a moment in history when the weak and the meek have prevailed. i'm confident i'm confident you all i'm confident and us together i'm confident that the west will

win. you know just 15 days ago i was in keep ukraine. visited a hospital where ukrainian service members who had been in injured in the conflict had been wounded in the fight against russia back across aggression were being convalesced there was a young brave warrior there we had a conversation i sustained a serious injury he was a significant pain we spoke for a few moments. to the translator told me that he was a captain i reminded him that several decades ago i too was a captain. and as we were getting ready to leave he got up to grab his crutches he moved across the room and he went to his wall locker grabbed his uniform pulled off his patch. and he handed me his unit logo. he told me to keep it he wanted me to have at that moment hit home for me he reminded me that she's worth fighting for and that it's real that we're all in this fight together let's keep out let's keep

winning god bless you all may god bless the free world in the united states of america thank you all forgive me if i. left him out of. we've just been hearing from the united states secretary of state mike pump aoe who came out with a very bold speech about what the united nations united states has done to contribute to the international cooperation and very much took to task i believe the words from the german president yesterday that question whether the united states was still invested in in fighting for any kind of international cooperation he's now speaking again to teri schultz a. boy in plain cesky back into those discussions with

which the organizers among other things mean. it suggests that actually there is a crisis in the relations between europe and the united states and this is reflected in the fact that europe seems not to follow your lead when you try to engage with iran when you try to redefine the relationship with china which is to go down to an task and a lot of people in this room would say you can only be achieved if europe and america work together but that does not seem to be the case there have been tariffs there have been sanctions used against allies. do you think you can master your priorities ranging from iran to china etc we doubt europe following or we don't you are being an ally the way it was when you were a cold warrior and serving in this country. so i was with secretary baker one of my predecessors who was in this job during roughly that time period he reminded me

that you could go back to that time and people were saying much the same thing there were still many challenges the the challenges the differences between our 2 places. these are these are for all time. myopic when you step back and raise up to a level if you look at iran when i talk to my counterparts here in europe everybody gets that. everybody gets the today iran still won't return the black boxes after having shot down an aircraft commercial aircraft with hundreds of people aboard everybody gets that the terror campaign the assassination campaign right here in europe is being conducted by this republic of iran everyone understands that these are folks that continue to build out their nuclear program so there's there's a common understanding about the threat and we have tactical differences about how to proceed. my observation about the work that's between us will always be know as they'll always be naysayers are our task is leaders is to rise above that it's to say focus on the things that really matter to us you mentioned the chinese

communist party in your comments which we understand we have deep commercial relationships with china we love the chinese people we have many chinese students studying in our nation but the chinese communist party presents an enormous risk to the central idea not the place of the west but the idea of the west and so our obligation to make sure we protect our people whether it's about infrastructure issues and making sure that information the travels across the network goes across one that we trust europeans care deeply about privacy we can't let information go across networks that we don't have confidence won't be hijacked by the chinese communist party is just unacceptable and i think i think we all know that our systems will work to get there we need to get there fast it's not about europe following you use that term several times it's not about them following us we want to work alongside you we want to work together we want to be good friends partners what will have challenges what will have challenges on trade wool have

disagreements about what the right levels are for certain trade systems and yet we have billions and billions of dollars that will transit between our 2 countries as we sit here this week there's lots of good things going on it's it doesn't mean there won't be problems and disagreements about how to approach them but it's the underlying values that we all share which will drive us to continue to success together we need all nations with the western ideal in their heart. this idea that human dignity matters that freedom matters that the sovereign nations are better is central to the idea of the west and those of us who care about that need to work together to achieve it it's not something that happens without hard work real dedication and the willingness to confront those who want to undermine it. unfortunately we are going to have to close the session now that one says that was more regret then i will take to talk much longer with you search for the questions you know it's not time actually i've been given strict instructions secretary asper is nothing says think you know what hold up my colleague thank you very much for

your time and let's continue the discussion on twitter everyone thank you very much . too quick of a session. thank you. you've just been listening to the u.s. secretary of state mike pompei oh if i heard this correctly the united states secretary of defense mark casper will now be addressing the public for i may have not quite heard that clearly but in any case we'll be waiting to see if that happens but if you were listening and taking notes as we were here in the studio you will take note of the fact that the secretary of state i certainly wouldn't call it an axis of evil speech but he certainly spoke quite boldly about the role that russia iran and china are playing in the world and took to task other

delegates who have spoken about the united states shrinking a world away from the world responsibilities let's let's bring in emanuel who's in the studio with me right now as we wait for the next speaker at the podium emmanuel what did you make of this speech by pumping well this conference was about taking the temperature and the tone has definitely set right now close off by mike pump a oh he used a very very strong camp a very when he defended. claims made at that the u.s. were actually rejecting the international community say does. adulterated reflect a reality nato was crusty exaggerated that the west was winning that's probably an expression that's going to stay today in the headlines that you need to spend 97 he said several times he said that 3 nations where more successful than never i wasn't

so quite astonished by difficult even though he used to speak about other nations to speak about other people he was talking about people crossing to me to meditate on the end because european nations were so successful that was a completely disregarding what was happening in the nations out refugees for example where deviating. so greatly you know i'm going to stop you know because we do see the secretary of defense from the united states mark as for speaking we're going to go live to him now will finish the conversation on the other. so i'd like to speak to you today about the number one priority of the united states department of defense implementing the national defense strategy the n.d.s. states that we are now in an era of great power competition with our principal challenges being china than russia and that we must shift our focus away from low

intensity conflict and prepare once again for high intensity warfare at the same time it recognizes that our 2nd tier parties are rogue states such as north korea and iran and finally dealing with violent extremist organizations will likely be an enduring threat for years to come. being in europe i know that there has been much discussion about the challenges from russia so this morning i want to focus on the pentagon's top concern the people's republic of china next year will mark the 20th anniversary of a decision that fundamentally altered the course of international affairs china's admission into the world trade organization. i was working in the united states senate at the time and 2 competing arguments over china's membership dominated the public debate the prevailing notion of the day was that if we allow the p.r.c. into the debt b.t.o. and other multilateral institutions china will continue on its path of economic

reform and eventually become a market oriented trading partner. more broadly increasing gaijin with a liberal world order would also spur political opening and help transform the p.r.c. into a responsible global stakeholder and who knows maybe even a democracy one day. the more skeptical voices argued that if granted membership china would use the benefits of free trade and open international order to grow its economy and access technology required to build a strong military and security state capable of expanding the reach of its author or terria rule. these are both credible arguments but we all know which one is rep winning right now it's not the former. in fact under present she's rule the chinese communist party is heading even faster and further in the wrong direction more internal repression more predatory economic practices more heavy handedness and

most concerning for me a more aggressive military posture. it is essential that we as an international community wake up to the challenges presented by china's manipulation of the longstanding international rules based order that has benefited all of us for many decades. the communist party and its associated organs including the people's liberation army are increasingly operating in theatres outside its borders including europe and seeking advantage by any means and at any cost. let me state upfront though the united states does not seek conflict with china in fact we look for areas of cooperation when our interests converge in the hope that they will choose the other path that they didn't select 2 decades ago. just look at the nearly 1000 tons of medical supplies the united states recently provided to the p.r.c. to help fight the coronavirus and last week we announced more than 100000000 dollars

in assistance to china and other countries affected by that malady. the world is too interconnected for us not to work together to solve some of our toughest problems however to be a responsible member of the international community china must be transparent and respect the sovereignty freedom and rights of all nations unfortunately their current behavior leaves great cause for concern. the united states' national defense strategy recognizes this critical challenge as we adapt and prepare our forces to deal with china in this new era of great power competition the p.r.c. is growing economic military and diplomatic power off to manifest itself in ways that are threatening coercive and counter to the rules based international order over time we've watched them seize a militarized allan's in the south china sea. and rapidly modernize their armed forces while seeking to use emerging technologies to alter the landscape of power

and reshape the world in their favor and often at the expense of others. i continue to stress to my friends in europe just as i did this past week at the need to defense minister conference in brussels. that americans can see america's concerns about beijing's commercial and military expansion expansion should be their concerns as well. this september will mark the 75th commemoration of the end of world war 2 and the birth of the international rules based order that has supported security and prosperity around the globe the united states our nato allies and partners or cross the into the pacific have sacrificed blood and treasure over the decades to protect and preserve it yet the p.r.c. seeks to undermine and subvert the system the same one that allowed them to rise and become what they are today as we speak communist china is exerting financial and political pressure publicly and privately on mandate many in the pacific and

european nations large and small while pursuing new strategic relationships worldwide in fact the smaller the country the heavier the hand the beijing. through its goal and road initiative for example the p.r.c. is leveraging its overseas investments to force other nations into supple security decisions this has wide range wide reaching ramifications for the united states and our allies in critical areas like data security interoperability and military readiness while we often doubt the transparency and forthrightness of beijing when it comes to their security aims we should take the chinese government at their word . they have said that by 2035 the p.r.c. intends to complete its military modernization and by 2049 it seeks to dominate asia as the preeminent global military power furthermore

the global community should be deeply concerned about the party's use of artificial intelligence and other technologies to surveil and repress muslim minorities journalists pro-democracy protesters and others. to make matters worse the government is now exporting those tools worldwide in a manner that could bolster other authoritarian regimes china's rapid ascent has stirred much debate over the promise of the united states in the west in the 21st century i understand this topic is part of this year's munich security conference report. china's growth over the years has been remarkable remarkable but many ways it is fueled by theft and coercion and exploitation of free market economies private companies and colleges and universities american and european institutions and corporations face the brunt of these malign activities and we have often seen a multitude of examples where our economy and our companies have suffered as a result of beijing's behavior bad behavior it will only take them so far the

world is increasingly aware of its motives and responding in turn. regrettably rather than change course party leadership continues its rampant technology theft while resolving to eventually end its reliance on foreign innovation altogether then independently develop its own systems and then dominate critical sectors and markets huawei and 5 g. are today's poster child for this nefarious strategy. history has proven time and again though that authoritarianism breeds corruption promotes conformity smothers free thinking and suppresses freedom. in stark contrast to this are our values sense of fairness in a culture of opportunity where which encourages destruction and unleashes the very best of human intellect spirit and innovation. this is why it is critical that together we all of us directly and unambiguously address beijing's actions and

intentions so that we are never intimidated or duped or pushed into bad security economic or political choices and maybe just maybe we can get them on the right path. again make no mistake we do not see conflict with china it's not what we want not at all rather we seek fair and open competition in the economic realm and in general we simply ask a beijing what we ask of every nation to play by the rules to abide by international norms and respect the rights and sovereignty of others. to restore an equal footing the department defense is doing its share we are focused on deterring bad behavior reassuring our friends and allies and defending the global commons and to maintain the peace through strength we are implementing the united states' national defense strategy. as part of this strategy we're doing our part to safeguard american innovation and to reinvigorate our industrial base. thanks to our largest research and development budget in 70 years we are investing in cutting

edge technologies and accelerating the modernization of our force while at the same time divesting from legacy systems and reinvesting those savings into hypersonic missiles artificial intelligence autonomous systems and many other game changing technologies. unlike china and others we will use these advanced capabilities to keep the peace to promote prosperity to ensure security and to protect the sovereignty the sovereignty of all freedom loving countries. for example while beijing uses ai to tighten its grip over its people the department of defense has established well regarded principles for the lawful and ethical use of ai while the p.r.c. develops and deploys long range fires to intimidate and threaten its neighbors we are investing in both conventional and advanced missile defense systems to protect the homeland our interests and our allies. and while communist china is weapon at weaponize in the space the main through the development of directed energy weapons

and killer satellites the pentagon is standing up its 1st new military service in over 70 years the united states space force to ensure freedom of use freedom of commerce and freedom and that navigation in to and through space for all. simply put the contrast between china's actions and united states leadership couldn't be more obvious at the same time we are protecting these high tech breakthroughs from theft and exploitation by strengthening our foreign investment laws supply chains export controls university based research and stop or defend its defenses all of which have been longstanding attack points of the chinese government. we encourage that our allies and partners are beginning to take similar actions as they thoroughly assess the long term threats and challenges posed by china among these concerns that dependence on emerging technologies that could inject serious risk into our defense cooperation. reliance on chinese 5 g.

vendors for example could render our partners' critical systems vulnerable to disruption manipulation and espionage it could also jeopardize our communications and intelligence sharing capabilities and by extension it could jeopardize our alliances. to counter this we are encouraging allied and u.s. tech companies to develop alternative solutions and we're working alongside them to test these technologies at our military bases as we speak. in the long run developing our own secure 5 g. networks will far outweigh any perceived gains from partnering with heavily subsidized chinese providers that ultimately answer to party leadership. in short let's be smart let's learn from the past and let's get 5 g. writes we don't regret our decisions later. the reality of the 21st century is that many economic decisions are also national security decisions. we're not asking our partners to reject engage with china just the opposite we want you to show them the

right path and we want you to nudge them down it in the meantime though we are asking our friends to clear to choose a global system the global system that supports democracy protects human rights and safeguards our greatest asymmetric advantages our values our shared interests and our unmatched network of alliances and partnerships. we feel that the choice is clear but recognize it may be tough that the economic challenges may take a toll in the short run but that our collective future may hang in the balance if we fail to make the hard choices now for the long run. the united states is not. a great country with an extraordinary history a rich culture and a wonderful people rather we want china to behave like a normal country that hears to the international order the generations before us to protect and preserve and that means the chinese government the government needs to change its policies and behaviors if the p.r.c.

will not change its ways in defending the system must be. we can only do this by making greater investments in defense by making the economic and commercial choices needed to. our shared security and by working together to maintain a ready and capable network that is prepared to deter any threat to defend. and to defeat any. thank you for your time and. i. believe what we've just seen is the 2nd part of what i will call a 12 punch that was the. earlier we heard from secretary of state. in the united states use much of this time to rebut claims that the united states has abdicated responsibilities to the international community using the refrain is that as a result of u.s.

involvement in world affairs that the west is winning now we just heard from defense secretary who addressed what he called the pentagon's number one concern which is an aggressive china let's go back to the life. on iraq you are asking nato allies to do more with the coalition to take over some of us some tasks being filled by the u.s. right now so that may free you up for for other jobs how have the nato allies responded what exactly are you asking them to do how is that going. afghanistan so we have on the table right now a reduction in violence a proposal that was negotiated between our ambassador and the taliban it looks very promising we have now been for a few days now in the process of consulting 1st with our congress i've had many conversations and then secondly concurrently with our nato allies in brussels we

had 2 good days of consultation well led by secretary general stoltenberg who by the way is doing an exceptional job i think there's general agreement it's my view as well that we have we have to give peace a chance that the best if not only way forward in afghanistan is through a political agreement and that means taking some risks that means enabling our diplomats and that means working together with our partners and allies on the ground to effect such a thing now yesterday i met secretary pompei and i met with president gone we had at least an hour long discussion with him i think he is fully on board he wants to lead his part of the process which if we get to that would be the a peace deal that would involve very soon afterward and. afghan negotiation he wants to be clearly a full partner in that and wants to lead on that and make sure that all afghans come together are well representative and can come up with an agreement that would

endure so that we could end this long conflict and make sure that afghanistan stays on the right path. and on iraq in the coalition no more details on what tasks nato allies may be willing to. so we had a good discussion also with our nato partners as you know. the proposal on the table that was agreed to in principle that nato would pick up more of a mandate would be willing to put additional forces into iraq as part of our nato mission in iraq that would allow nato to pick up more slack if you will and to a address that mission in a way that we continue the 2 most important things we're trying to do in iraq as a coalition and as an alliance 1st continue the enduring defeat of isis and by the way yesterday i in the german defense minister hosted 82 countries organizations we keep adding partners to this coalition all committed to the enduring defeat of isis

and that's very important the 2nd task we have in iraq is to train advise and assist the iraqi security services so that over time they could pick up in total that mission and ensure that isis does not come back and present the challenge does to iraq in particular but the region more broadly. so let me take you back to the main theme of your intervention china you mentioned while we know there has been a very extensive very complex complain only off of the trumpet ministration engaging with allies on this issue but it does not seem to be working because key nato allies in europe britain france germany are seemingly normal going to exclude one we from building their 5 g. networks i mean. i think members of your administration have said that this will have consequences could you tell me what kind of consequences will this have and will you reconsider to strategy on this issue. this past week was probably my 3rd

or 4th defense minister. at nato in brussels at each each time i've gone we've discussed this issue when i 1st got there in june we had a wide spectrum of views on this issue i can tell you that countries have moved you have some countries who clearly understand the threat the challenges you have some in between and you have some on the other hand who don't recognize the threats i think that if you look around the globe the united states clearly understands at this point in time i think it's a shared bipartisan view in washington of the threats and challenges posed by china in general and while way in particular it took us some years to get to that understanding and i think europe is a little bit behind us and i think over time as as we are able to share information intelligence and work with with one another we will get there the consequences of this are not made and clear in my remarks if we don't understand the threat and we don't do something about it at at the end the day it could compromise what is the

most successful military alliance in history nato something that we are deeply invested in something that i as a young soldier served in here in europe as an officer and we can't lose that we can't lose that ability to share information to exchange intelligence to discuss operational plans because we fear there. it works or compromise that is the consequence we face at least the 1st the foremost one for me as a defense as we look at look at this growing challenge the secretary even britain member of the fly on a 5 eyes and they have a very sophisticated capability to detect threats like that and they've decided to go ahead with it so i mean what specifically do you think will be the consequences of this will you stop sharing intel with with the british or or will it is that we'll want to just build the networks in europe and and that we have we have to take a look at these each countries approaches and thinking one step at a time i've yet been able to digest what the what the u.k.

has proposed and you know there's just because you want to take one step forward doesn't mean you can't take 2 steps backward we have to work with them and understand of course at the end they will have to assess what the threat is to our networks and to our ability to exchange information and we want to continue that dialogue and like i said one of the challenges the when you have a heavily subsidized company while way that is that is answers to the chinese government and they can use those subsidies to offer good technology at a very low price that's very seductive they can draw you in that's the way a company gets market share but you can't think about the long term consequences and that's what we're most concerned about and that's what we keep talking to our partners around the world whether it's europe asia you name it it's this challenges out there and different different countries have taken different stances on this and i've had many private conversations where you'll hear the this competition within a government is happening you know some folks have very clearly see the threat the challenge and others don't because of the because what's economically on the table

. we have a we have about about 5 minutes i'm going to ask one more question and then also take one from the audience so please whoever wants to ask a question get ready to hop up secretary rice i ask this also of the secretary general. are you concerned that if things move ahead in afghanistan and you are able to draw down troops that you will not have full visibility out in the provinces that you won't actually know if the taliban is at hearing to the deal because you don't have eyes boots on the ground anymore and you've also got isis there now so. how can you feel confidence how can you feel confident that you can pull back. well i think. that's why i think general made the same point nobody's right now calling for the complete removal of u.s. and coalition forces u.s. forces were remain there as long as necessary to support our afghan partners and allies we are committed to continuing our both our material and financial support

to the afghan national defense and security forces at the same time any reduction of forces will be conditions based and i've had extensive conversations with my commanders with general miller i've been to afghanistan a few times he is very confident that we have enough information sufficient information either through our own technical means through other measures to help with the afghans to understand exactly what is happening on the ground and to make sure that what the taliban commits to do will be what they have done and to make the decision at the right points every step forward to make sure that again conditions based apply and we're very careful and thoughtful as we move through this process and you're not worried about isis using it as a safe haven since they have moved in during the time that you've been on the ground there well you know ironically between coalition forces and the taliban we've done great damage to isis they are a much more reduced to marginalize force that said we have to keep a careful eye on them at the end of the day the goal was this make sure that

afghanistan never again becomes a safe haven for terrorists that can attack our countries that's our commitment that's our goal whether it's al qaeda or isis or somebody else we are committed to doing that. thomas elvis. the former president of a standing we please get a microphone him he probably doesn't need one. there's a secretary many of us in europe agree that there are significant dangers with hallway and the u.s. for at least a year has been telling us they're not use while way are you offering an alternative are you going to subsidize no. erikson i mean what do we get what is it that we should do other than not use what way. it's a great point we obviously have to develop alternatives right we can't say do nothing and leave the space open so these are the issues we're discussing with the united states government d.o.d.

is doing its share as i mentioned remarks what we're doing is hosting on a handful of our military bases we're asking providers of 5 g. to come in i have the ability to clear away any type of regulatory paperwork and obstacles so they can come in and test 5 g. systems on our bases to prototype and to see how quickly we can move forward and we're fully working this hand in glove with our commercial vendors to make sure we could dance those technologies but i think what you've raised are the things we've been discussing within our nato ministerial meetings. i'm actually looking for some national security women to raise their hand. we've got one and they're ok this is our last question please yes ma'am nathalie. many thanks nice to talk she from the institute for intervention if it is coming back to asia and china beyond transatlantic dialogue what would you like to see need to do more in asia and peace of the china. well i spoke in my remarks about

being aware of the challenges that china faces and in the long run i think right now the most important thing for nato is building nato writing this we had a very good meeting in london the leaders' summit where we all agreed on what's called the nato readiness initiative we met our marks with regard to having 30 squadrons 30 naval surface combatants and 30 mechanized battalions ready to go within 30 days that's very important nato is right now i think 1st and foremost nato should focus on the security of the continent deterring russian bad behavior and unifying and making sure the alliance is ready at a moment's notice and then beyond that we've talked about expanding we've talked about nato middle east but the same time concurrently we have to be aware of the long term challenges presented by china right now it's 1st and foremost would be what's happening in the economic and commercial realm and then over time as we think about china writ large is something by the way we agreed to in the leaders' summit about nato taking that approach toward china understand the long long term

challenge that presents a man may have less question from 10. i am actually waiting for instructions on whether president mcclellan is standing behind us. does anybody see em. throwing daggers at me out here we can have when we take one more question a question from china. yes to have them ok yeah yeah. thank you ok from china was written. you mention is that the united states is time to seek to confront them with china you state the united states. secret to cooperate of is china to give us some examples where united states the duty we need to work together with 10 that thank you. you know i think there are a number of areas you can look at the economic growth where we cooperate in the

diplomatic space we cooperated together for many years with regard to counter power sea off the african coast i think there's much more we can do in terms of disaster relief and humanitarian affairs but at the same time we're working together united states closely with many of its close partners to make sure that china respects the scenes in the fishing zones and the other territory territorial claims that are clearly within the bounds of international law in that part of the world so those are other areas where we need to work with them establishing a could of conduct for good behavior so i think we need to explore and exploit as much as possible areas of cooperation between the united states and china because i'm not willing to give up on the on the i don't think the united states government is either we've got to continue working with them it's not an issue of china it's a mission issue the leadership and make sure they recognize that we can all benefit to use their term when when we could have a win win strategy if we just abide by the international rules and norms that have been set in place for decades and the benefit of all of us and that respect human

rights and respect sovereignty and respect all the things that we value as western nation. so we have to wrap it up with a prison macro france is going to fold to the stage think you very much if you think you are making time to such great to have a conversation thank. welcome back to d. to abuse chief political editor michelle new who is in munich at their security conference and here in the studio w.'s political correspondent emmanuelle she has of course welcome back to both of you and i should say we are waiting to hear from the men right now cloyd's soon as that happens we will go back to the conference michelle i want to start with you very quickly you know we just heard from the u.s. defense secretary bar kasper following the address from the secretary of state mike pompei oh i would say that the united states has come out with guns blazing what did you hear. absolutely mark as to who we just heard from stress several times

that the united states was not seeking a confrontation with china but he did protest too much quite clearly clearly he said that the concerns the united states has about china uptick it's technology it's seeking its own interests commercially but also in terms of security world wide and not being in line with international rules and regulations should also be the concerns of the allies and the easiest example to take really is the 5 g. net many european countries including germany are still kind of on the fence how easy it would be for a time this way a corporation who is a technology leader undoubtedly to actually make a pitch that and be part of that vital network that many countries so needs to be able to compete on a whole range of commercial issues so clearly this is a confrontation with china and

a clear expectation framed by the united states that once again although it was said in as many words you're either with us or against us because because the threat is on the table that united states would no longer be able to cooperate with countries who allow a chinese company to build their 5 network that would mean intelligence sharing but also security cooperation. let's listen to what mike pump aoe had to say about the transect manic alliance. i'm happy to report that the death of the transatlantic alliance is grossly over exaggerated. the west is winning we are collectively winning we're doing it together. so my question michel is or the u.s. and europe working together. yes they are working together a lot more than a lot of the rhetoric does suggest because after all this is the very vital defense

mechanism the 1st and foremost nato that is securing the defense capabilities of europe which is also a strategic important area for the united states is not no change them but the declaration the west is winning i would actually have to work very hard to find anybody outside the de u.s. delegation which would share that assessment it simply doesn't ring true for most people here after all the title of this is mix security conference is west lessness so clearly this seems to be some alternative facts presented by my comp a.o. when he said he would set that right and that he rejects criticism by frank for test time of the jumpers that he used to quote they didn't mention his name accusing the united states of undermining the very multilateral system that they appear to defend. alternative facts. and then you had as we see the

french president making his way to the podium not only course we'll dip into just remember. what did you hear in the address. that caused the death penalty off between the u.s. and arrested west talks. talking about this type of event a year ago we're going to live. many. of the president of france and he's being interviewed by the chairman of the company conference mr president mr volcker for those of you who don't speak french. you might be well advised to have your headphones around because i would imagine that. we'll probably tend to use the french language. and so be prepared for that. also. i want to say that i am particularly grateful to

president. for having agreed to the kind of format that i like that my team likes and that i know all of you like because he's now in not giving one of his major speeches he's just given one that. just a week ago he's given many many important speeches over the last 3 years but today he has agreed to just discuss issues and take your questions so let's give him were round of applause and they will start to a. i'll so i'll i'll try to do this in in english and the president will respond in french or english or german i don't know.

so. yesterday in this hall. fine but this time my rescinded a and important speech. a very very pro european speech europe as the destiny for germany strong. commitment to europe so you have made important speeches on. your vision of europe. so let me ask you the question this way what kind of e.u. what kind of europe. do you do envisage if you look 5 or maybe even 10 years ahead what kind of europe would you like to see that you and your partners can create a stronger a better a more respected europe tell us about your vision message. as

the good lady here thank you very much and bassett a suitable i'd like to welcome all my friends colleagues here at lax say hello so this is a far reaching question and i'm trying to answer it as quickly as i and therefore it will be general when i look at the world the way it looks like today and when i look at of the topics of your conference this year we can see that if there is a certain weakness of the west that has been observed 15 years ago we thought our values were universal values they will always rule the world and we are more dominant in terms of military technology and so on but now when i look at the world what it has as it has looked like in the last 10 or 15 years i can say that the values have changed and new value added new powers have a reason like china and they are regional powers that have arisen that they are very close by and they do not share our values as russia does for me that they call

for a different strategy we have to close to them we're neighbors with. on which i'm doing the we have victories also is in our neighborhood think of african and. when you look at the world as it has been recently and it will be in the next 20 or 30 years we will lose up elation and africa will explode in terms of population remember that. then think of american policies how they've changed in the last few years the government has somewhat withdrawn or at least relations with europe. are being reviewed so we have to take that into account and this has reinforced me in my belief that we need a european strategy a strategy that allows us to present ourselves as a strategic power and to view ourselves as a strategic power the you know i have in mind is in europe that is sovereign united and democratic and acts as such and in 10 years time i'd like to see europe that

has enough leverage to operate in when it comes to policy is to technology migration defens feeding the world and also in terms of climate protection environmental protection and a europe which has. relations with its neighbors russia and africa the middle east years ago the middle. europe which has decided to defy the final core that one is true saw frontier in the eurozone a europe which is credited. and europe which has modernized itself and that has reviewed in all its the rules that they believe in it cannot be a year old to go where we don't need majority where we need a unanimous decision when we look into the future 10 or 15 years we need more

commonalities in the heart of europe and we need some acceptance that we have such a call of europe such heart of europe that is of course the decision of sovereign countries call a heart that makes decisions and moves in the same direction with partners that are willing to do that this week with the partners that believe in our policy was a good mom single market and rules about convergence see it as rules about neighborhood. we are more moderate then countries that are less close to that core under stable neighborhood i think we're facing the odd truth here over and over but it was good in europe office as the possibility to protect our values our priorities we have a lot in common with the united states freedom and so on so this is why we fight together numerous wars but it's not quite the same as what america wants so we need

some freedom of action in europe we need our only strategy we need to develop our own strategy we have to do not have the sale and geographic conditions not the same ideas about social good if you would equate librium that i was socially welfare and they are ideals we have to defend and we need a policy let live neighborhood mediterranean. this is that this european thing not a transatlantic thing and the same goes for russia we need a european policy not just a transatlantic policy. you know your our this is what i would like europe to barely intended this time this is the europe i'd like to see a europe that can take the bases of itself a year out that has little vitality. and europe that is into the u.s. take about its future. if you go back to close this point by saying that just like you of course i have listened to president steinmeyer speech and it

is. absolutely what i believe i wasn't surprised by the speech this is what i would like to subscribe to as well put it very clearly. thank you very much mr president let me remind all of you that if you want to ask a question of the president the best way of doing it is use the electronic way use your. if all goes well maybe somebody could check this again the question should appear on my i pad maybe one of my team members could big sure that it actually works so write your questions down and we'll we'll pick them up i will also try to identify this or that question that i know personally so be prepared for that we'll go to you in to the audience in just a few minutes. on the bilateral issue. lifeforce

11 mind. i would think that you must have been quite frustrated over the last 2 and a half years with what some of my friends in france and strongly the media have called a non answer from germany to ground proposals coming from france so now yesterday interestingly enough and you alluded to it. the president of germany and the foreign minister of germany. came up with a positive response to your invitation to start this strategic dialogue on defense and nuclear issues so tell us a little bit about your degree of frustration with germany at this moment. and that of another manifestation you know. now i think this is a permanent story between our 2 countries. i remember several approaches our

proposals made by germans years or decades ago we think for french and says. your scottish made a great speech waiting for french answer. showed us before i mean we have a story of proposals waiting for answers i mean 1st i think of the european and the balloting old lovelle we worked very hard together during the past 2 and a half years the past 3 years with this gaffe and a lot of projects and i do think our ministers present here for the good work they made together. we allowed what was thought as impossible let's say 3 years ago. let's imagine we will make the future a common was germany a lot of people probably in this room would have said to me you are crazy. it would never happen you have the half and we have already abuse let's stop the discussion

. it's apne and we are progressing so we launch a series of bioterror approach and we launched a series of new initiatives at the european skate on batteries on universities europe of defense with a lot of initiatives and we're probably revert to that i think the big question mark now we have together is a magnitude of the answer in the speediness. and for me the main challenge we have in front of us is our ability to address the core problem of the european perspective. please get an old. sitting to the degree mccarthy it's not no longer the same crises that we're facing today it's not a crisis of european democracies and european middle classes before them in our countries many people i've dabbled fall in it is not europe they dealt with but.

the idea of a democracy there is more extremism we have to come up with a joint on so what is our perspective for the next 20 or 30 years for europe this is what is it is dangerous i'm not frustrated maybe i'm patient. and i hope that i lateral friend franco german level we can face up to the task to create a new dynamic of this european ram engine we need and we have the federal the new team. and i was happy to say that you told us here today our friendship mission and also the percentage of bill that is here today and other commission as i hear today so we do have a very good team we. share we have funded lined up ahead of the commission we have a new european parliament and this opens up new possibilities for a climate action and ford. 5 g. initiative that stands for european ambition and this is exactly what i have in

mind the key to me at european level than i've tried to make it clear by speech and so bond will tell you 1st of all we need to be faster we need to act faster to european level but it comes to stuff and questions as i mentioned before and then technologically hell can we be fast to help and we invest faster for our enterprises for our companies and our rules our initiatives how can we fast in proposing european initiatives 5 g. the cloud. you know that 1st intelligence here we need european initiatives what can we do peons to face up to these challenges now can we take care of the things that our populations are worried about the climate our borders protecting our borders. for years we have. been able to get to grips with these problems but we have to. out of work still before people expect us to cope with the problem of climate change they're afraid of touch climate change and sometimes they think

we're not fast enough we can only sit and solve this at the european level and i would like to be fast in agreeing with german need to be a successful income of the joint initiatives and the key to success is to be able to take risks together we've done that if we don't take risks we want made progress and that also means that our relationship has to be changed has to be adapted i believe in the future i believe in our joint investment in the future we are a continent or a guy that has stopped believing in its future. when i look at the mixture of different policies within to talk about the soon it will all be real real big we need to agree about our budget we're talking about small numbers 1.61.7 whatever that's not really proportionate to the magnitude of the tice we're facing it's not worth fighting about it but. china on the other one to invest enormous amounts of

money it's all public money that is invested. and i didn't say it's not necessarily clear what they're doing it's not always transparent but they do invest a lot in the digital feel they have a climate initiative don't forget that what it is that it was so chop that china is investing in its future and so is the united states they have to sided to invest more public money. and this is a magnitude we have never seen before defend this technology. of when you and they set the course for the future you want in europe. we have to talk about. the only way we have to talk at a level that we've agreed we don't. we have to agree to a common budget. so after the crisis there were too many rules but the financial markets have not been evacuated at this stunt of the me under section rules. but

insurances and balance are the keys to economic success so for the last 10 years we have had this construction of public and private finance and this policy mix is not responsible at the end of the day it leads to this is 0 percent interest rate that we have now will have but the pretty percentage of saving has increased in europe while we have no real integrated capital and financial market in iraq this capital cannot circulate there's no cash flow between the countries so good it means why we have that we will have that problem of too little investment for our economy so they're going to. by american. merican investment american idol is shares this so we are not fast enough and invest in our future money if in 10 or 15 years time we have the industry under the rules we have for

the future. so they will be prepared. but if they are not successful. what will this shows that we must invest in our future and as i said we have to be enthusiastic about the future and we must invest in the future and another reason i'm saying this is from a political point of view that is the only option we need to strengthen the european middle class and reconcile them with our idea of the future that is essential the prices in at. $28.00 eastern tonight and 10 took longer for europe to digest we have problems in greece and italy and spain and we expected enormous sacrifices of the people there unprecedented especially the middle classes decrease of income level for pensions and what it was to be sold also sometimes sold to china so and then the next crisis came

along that everything had to change it had to be changed yet again i come from a country that was prepared to take risks so again we have a pressure on the middle class it's all. what it means is in here up we have to be clear about this. where the hearts of democracy used to be this know a lot of doubt about democracy. and you got your days the impression is whenever there's an economic problems we have to pay when there is whenever there's a problem we are the ones who have to pay there is no fair burden sharing so how can we retain our enthusiasm about the future. and how can we. include the middle classes. europe is an adventure an adventure of freedom progress for the middle classes and social market economy and that is a very important subject in germany so if there's no perspective for the middle

class it's become not make progress so this is why people doubt the nature of europe the future of europe and of democracy this is what we have to do with the frank agenda level it's not about fresh presidential i am impatient because i believe we need to be fast in our reaction we need a clear. to our population we the franco germany tendon if we have do not find the answer to these problems if we do not come up with a prospective for the middle classes that will be historic failure 1000. results i would like to. go back to your most recent important speech the one at the gold digger a week ago in that speech you said and i wrote it down that french nuclear forces strengthened european security and also had and i quote

a truly european dimension and quote now. i am old enough to remember the night in 74 the clear ration of nato we need to members explicitly stated that french and british nuclear forces contributed and i quote from that there exists 97 before contributed to the overall strengthening of deterrence of the alliance and that the nuclear states in nato would undertake to make the necessary contribution to maintain the common defense so when i. look at that old text and what you said last week. i hope it is ok for me to us the question what's new. what's new in what you said or what are you hinting at where would you like to go on this

question of. nuclear strategy. for europe 'd for france in the 21st century. it's a question often with ilesha and ships and relations between ambitions. and . i'm convinced that we need more much stronger europe in defense so i think that what we have achieved last few years i mean your own defense fund. our european intervention. this is what i said at my star bond speech that these things are crucial these things are crucial so that we have european funds available so that we can develop joint capabilities like the future economy air system or the ground combat system

a. great examples for german cooperation and we need to joint strategy for defense and i think we need that due to reasons of sovereignty this has been misunderstood very often it's not a project against nato or instead of nato then i've said it before the common security and europe has 2 pillars and one of things because it's nato and the other one is a europe that defends these are no alternatives it's just a logical consequence of what happened in recent years we have an american partner telling us you need to invest more in your own security and that is true in the americans telling us that we europeans since the fall of the berlin wall have invested less and less in security because the world changed that was true and the americans say we're not the sheriff to provide for security in your neighborhood so if i look at what has been done under obama. one thing i can say that there was a new strategic position of the united states fewer investments in the middle east

and the. pacific and use of american say that the europeans need to take more initiative i do believe we need nato this is absolutely clear that. we need to work crew here in the with nato and in response to american desires and this is how we have to create our own capability that was. with every stows credibility on us so that we can protect ourselves and that we can be able to act i say that because this is fundamental also with a view to foreign policy that if we do not have the ability to act then in foreign policy we will not be credible. especially with regards to the united states when it comes to iran we have our own opinion i talked about sovereignty. it was economic and military militarily we kept our own diplomacy and we saw that

with edgy scipio way so we do need to hear about defense and in this framework i want to know progress in different areas what i said is indeed new actually and i picked up on that last week so it's nothing new with a view to needle in the framework of maybe we do make our contributions yes but we do not participate in exercises this has always been the case as. i'm telling you now that we need to have a strategic dialogue with all partners who want that also about a new player topics and in this train work we're willing to conduct joint exercises because the goal of that is joint strategic culture. so in a european sense it's about this france believes and you. of defense we're willing to undertake and we're going to walk that down that path together with our partners

and to come to a new strategic dialogue i think this is a very important point and this is indeed a novelty in got to do that in the framework to offer your defense also in the framework of need to. look at all the things that we didn't think of in our relations in the past when it comes to our military strength and power and many things have not been said but we've gotten to a point where we do need to take things into consideration there are things that we have not taken into account woman comes to germany or the east of europe and so. we've been especially with the history that we have we need to address these topics we build europe and rebuilt europe and we reduce germany's power and that's what we did in the beginning at the specially militarily and then after that at least lowly built this up friends the u.k. . they've been pretty clear in nuclear weapons germany didn't but

germany that you have to be very enduring discussions of the through the united states. and i mean and so basically we can almost talk about new u.s. nuclear assets but not about british or friends french the french nuclear assets because it always had to go through the united states. i think now we have to be able to see clearly that if we want to sort of bring in europe if we want to protect our citizens then we do need to look at that very aspect also with that you know to germany i'm speaking asked the french president here of course with the weight of our shared history on our shoulders but we have to overcome this we have a history with our capabilities i don't. this debate is not easy in germany but i do believe that we have to be able to conduct a calm debate and level headed debate so. we can not always have to

go through the united states no we have to sink in a european way as well and if you look to the east the eastern part of europe will have to say that since the fall of the byrne and why there's another topic that has never been raised in eastern europe kind of it was left as in the lurch for in a certain sense. it was just accepted that in 1947. out of. the. union and built its empire there were there were however relations with the attack and their accounts were supported us. and the question that arose with a view to europe where the view to the reunification of germany and the unity in europe. the unity also with our neighbors in eastern europe leads to a question and the question is this how can we provide for the security and the

common trust and hearable this is an important and a good topic i know there's a lot of insecurity there right now there is insecurity with the. confidence in the here about defense that we need to address that i know i talked for quite a while but that was important for me to be able to see that. if i. think you are absolutely right that of course you have in france because you have been a nuclear country for so long you have a certain culture of knowledge and discussion. this country is a country which is really good at nuclear weapons we have including for that particular reason much greater difficulties in raising. these. standing the complexities so it's not an easy discussion before turning to questions from all of

you let me ask one last question. you have said mr president when you spoke about russia you have said quote pushing away russia from europe unquote would be a major strategic error. now my question is very simple one after your recent visit to poland for example do you expect our eastern european partners and allies to support you in this vision of a new and reinvigorated different kind of relationship with russia. and what do you think present selenski will want to say about this who will speak in the other room in about an hour or in other words isn't the unresolved crane dunbar's issue a huge obstacle to any kind of renovated relationship with russia at this moment so

a little sherry with us your views about how how did deal with russia as we go forward. at acknowledging. one to take stock of where we are with russia right now and where we could move to with russia in recent years but we of course. took a stance towards russia and we have been a bit more distrustful and there are reasons for that we could talk more about these reasons than it but that's the way it is so let's look at the past few years . because of the get go this is going to be discussed we developed towards russia meant that we were recurred in our appearance in the 2013 and 14 we said the red line was crossed in syria but nobody did anything about that because we wanted to

know so this is what it meant going on in our strategy it seems to me it is trustful of the because we really only do know if we if we want to step up our values we have to appear stronger as well russia used to be weak. and then look what happened after the red line was crossed swords and when we just let them cross it their reaction was clear that a. mistake in syria has been corrected since then other powers entered into the syrian conflict but we just let it happen that the russians of the field you cannot appear more assertive and at the end of the day the ukraine activities were also a consequence of our behavior when i was running for president in france. and what happened was that you're right before the 1st round of elections of my election campaign teams was under attack and no no where that tech came from but i

also know that being skeptical and weak and went to being a neighbor on top of all of that no. one up on the stone and not trusting enough and also having the u.s. not trusting russia would. it's offensive and us being a neighbor i said said then that is not a policy the way we act. so there are many frozen conflicts now there are more conflict in cyberspace sanctions that didn't change one bit and russia i don't think we should abolish the sanctions i'm just stating that the sanctions didn't work sanctions and counter sanctions didn't really work out when europeans suffer as much from the sanctions as the russians do and the result is not exactly positive so let's look at all of this again. things won't change overnight. we won't invite them and it will come over and will make

everything better you know i just want to say we need credible strategy for a 1st scenario could be to us keep our skepticism and at pir more brutal and actually act more broadly to me to make sure that our red lines are being held up do we want that do we want to do that together i think nobody in this room agrees with me on that position 2nd because. if we need to be more demanding we don't know never leave our position but we don't let go of that but we need a strategic dialogue because the current situation is the worst situation possible that you could imagine we talk less and less but have more and more conflicts and at the same time we're not able of selling these conflicts so such an approach needs time but i think it is a path that finally could be credible because one of the by the end of doing that and you said that mr dishing or we will make profit in progress for more than 3

years of that there was no meeting in the normandy format on ukraine but we want to relaunch this dialogue with president putin it's accepted that for more than 3 years of different exceptionally so we have summit in the normandy farm and coming up and there were successes there when i'm president successes between the federal chance very important as what president well as well and after the summit. of exhibits that prisoners were exchanged. as in that has never been the case before and there were security measures that the minsk agreement isn't even for see i'm not naive there are many other problems as well that a certain dynamism started. and i will keep talking with the chancellor the next meeting in a while and hopefully in april in verlyn we don't have a lot of time but at least we really invigorated the process and the strategic dialogue with russia needs to rest on the opportunity to thaw frozen conflicts and

the opportunity to address cyber issues and to talk about the space and military aspects in space we need to be able to talk about addressing external conflicts like syria but we share the russia's opinion whatever happens in italy is not acceptable. and these proposals are more not coming from france historically seen a situation also has looked into a lot with our licorice and with what awaits us in this theater of operations so we do need to enter into a dialogue with russia here as well and take on responsibility russia is a permanent member of the u.n. security council and so russia cannot keep blocking progress in the security council up the i am very pleased with effect that president putin also agreed to do 5 meetings and so i hope that we will be able to meet process progress so the 1st step is to be european court you need coordination and also along the lines of the

often an agreement of this i keep talking to my polish colleagues of course they are worried they're concerned geography and history of course play their role here as well but what else can we do what remains. undone when we want to start dialogue and create trust and that's also beneficial for poland and one last thing if i put myself in russia's shoes what's russia's future respect if you're. always have to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes so in recent years there has been a greets military armada that was build up in russia they invested a lot into the militant in the military they built a military force and created something that they were thought was impossible 20 years ago and they are now. more powerful on the ground at sea in space and so this strategy for russia i think is not viable in a financial way and russia has a g.d.p. that corresponds with the g.d.p.

of a medium sized power so if i imagine i was russia i think yes right now they're still credible but in 20 years time i'm not so sure so russia has the same weakness he has exploited our weakness and our uncertainty in conflicts like libya and syria is this going to last i don't know but water rushes opportunities russia's options standing alone that's difficult. it's a huge country and a few people they need allies and the alliance with china as well we push them towards that after 20132418 but i don't think they have to and i lines with china it will be sustainable for russia china has never really culturally entered into such an alliance and president putin. and also. it's conservative his conservative political stance something needs to the fact that

such an alliance won't come into being i believe and china wants to be more autonomy and this does not go hand in hand with russia's pride i analyze that politically now so they do need a european partner and russia but. i said it in poland as well i'm not pro russian are pro or anti russian i'm just pro european but if you look at the geographic facts we it's clear that we need to do something together we need to build security architecture of mutual trust and that means also that we need to give russia strategic option of the. a little later this afternoon after the lunch break we will have set a good lover off right here and we can ask him i hope somebody will ask him the question about how sustainable this russian for policy is and maybe we'll quote

what you said to him and see how he reacts. i think we have good perspective with russia from the audience with your permission of the 1st question comes from. the audience somewhere. way back so i'll read it to make it make this brief question to presume. who comes from washington former senior official in the state department now chief executive officer of the new america foundation so a question you speak eloquently and compellingly of a european strategy. not. strategy although you point out the need for a different e.u. to be effective. when you speak of european strategy are you still

including the u.k. question mark so driven get your. uniform assume we'll deploy those coupons or pounds what is your pin if you them all in your bed for millions of. them this is a very good question of course it could hit it includes the e.u. but of the inside within the e.u. we can advance with some states if others are unwilling to go along this is why we have increased military cooperation for example we have an initiative that we started between the different governments they agreed on that as interventionist if and several european countries not all of them have decided to go along with that some nato members others are not thinking often that we so in that context in europe of defense yes of course the united kingdom is part of it belong with us

because they are very important ally. and we as france have 2 things in common with them 1st of all it will be a document security council and we are nuclear power as this is based on bilateral treaties we want to do all of that and we. did not suffer from breck said that we still have this vision of here of a defense and we need various formats for that we need a strategic culture. increasingly close and that of course includes the united kingdom because of the current treaties and agreements and future initiatives and i think we as europeans have the task to create fear of coordination formats for the united kingdom for the future and that includes the strategic level we will have a kind of security council in europe that we started with the an

agreement we started it between france and germany and we will asses continue along that road we need at the european level as well we need to vet your meetings and include we need to include the united kingdom in this so the answer is yes. but i think it's. no. he's tall enough to stand up and be seen so here's your question is it all one person to do short term we want to the long term in the short term are you afraid that russian intelligence and russian ai could manipulate the next election in france to the advantage of moving the pain and the question to the long term in a post putin era could you imagine that the old dream of. alliance an alliance between america europe and russia could develop or is that a dream. yes

your 1st question. i will not to try to revert to that old if. of whether intervention for one or another candidate took place but that has happened in the past but the strategy of russia has been to monitor the political movements in the past and to support non democratic movements anti migration democratic very conservative. movement if not they conservative forces and alliance forces so these are partners that do not one to europe to become close they do not want to develop europe further so this is why russia has long been see in the country it's better to have 27 divided states rather than 27. states acting together but this is not our approach so we need

a new strategy we stand united we want to joint approach with. a russia that is willing to build something even though we do not agree on everything i believe russia will remain. a country that tries to intervene either directly or by proxies by services i do not believe in miracles i believe in policies because we know about. human beings can change things if we have the means to do so i do not think things will change spontaneously and from one day to the other to everything will be light in the world will be different no there will always be such interventions there will always be this kind of meddling. in france we are not used to saying who did it who's done it of course we can all follow. certain attacks but we do not make it public some people do some countries do and sometimes we handle it with other countries sometimes they are like agents

to put it vaguely and sometimes it's private perpetrators private proxies so russia is very aggressive and will certainly continue to be that in the next months and years to come and there will always be such axes when it if it comes to elections because of course we needn't confine ourselves to russia there are other countries who do the same thing the ultra right american groups for example that. have interfered in european elections and of course it's not legal. so we need. to be farsighted we need a broad view of the situation and we need to be clear about what must we do what we need to defend ourselves technologically also by cooperating cooperation between the intelligence services and also cooperation between our legal systems we have very few antibodies against us kind of attack and that is the weakness of european

democracies. in all democracies of the world. not only if europe. changes to the system. through the may tear through technologies always lead to a lack of on that antibodies we need to protect democracies so that is one of the great challenges meddling by private plane is technologies deep fake money plays. in many feel ation of information information can be spread very quickly along different channels and we cannot go very far i don't that's the same in all democratic systems that is has an immediate effect deterring people intimidating people and that is incompatible with systems that are values based that based on freedom freedom of opinion freedom of the press and so on with. the various systems that were developed in the late 19th century. so of course freedom

of movement and so on it's all very fine but these are the rules of the 19th century we have adapted them but the main rules they go back to the 19th century so we are vulnerable we are very vulnerable. because not react quickly enough. technologically legally because not react quickly enough in order to counter these strategies that is the main problem i believe so russia will remain. a player on this stage and we need to take initiatives. we need deescalation but also transparency we need to act together transparently this is what we should do in the next few months this has to be a position because of the of russia whenever it's such private or public. actis intervene in our democracies of democracies of our partners we need to be quick in our reaction methodically and we need to be clear about who did it and we need to agree on sanctions. so we do need

a dialogue. and we need to stand up to this new method of destabilisation this criminal method of destabilization we need to act against private or public actors nothing is impossible. and. we will find solutions to many problems and there will be direct and in direct repercussions also when we think of chinese intervention the chinese method. also determines the american strategy that is not surprising and that is justified it goes for trade goes for strategic deliberations and so on and so if china continues to rise and if it continues to pursue policies aimed at infrastructure digital development is an expensive strategy is

strategy all. that exists in the strategy of. increasing its presence in the atlantic and pacific area that will mean that the interest of the other major power was. united states and so on. that may of be overtaken by china at some point in anomic terms so we need to develop something to react to this development that what you described is certainly not impossible but it all depends on china's future success and strategies that's one thing and secondly it depends on our european capacity to react to this development if we have to join strategy we can develop it together with the americans that our time is rapidly evaporating so i think we have time for maybe one of the last questions one hour read and one i think goes to joe you

off of that site so if somebody could give a microphone to show you off while i read this question to you this comes from the berlin bureau chief of the economist. tom not where were you tom somewhere in the room. the question is the following now that the european commission has revised its methodology for e.u. enlargement this is about the balkans will france lift its veto on beginning accession talks with north methadone year and again year if so when question mark probably applies even me i'm a tory they. let them do of it of. i don't really like this term of veto but i know i know that most of the members do. that but i don't

really like that so i reject that. is that it doesn't take a lot of courage to hide between france whenever there's disagreement so this is not about not taking our negotiations with north not the journey and albania but i'd like to add one thing that. many countries were opposed to that. and i think it is a major mistake or it was a major mistake. to separate this from the negotiations with one or the macedonia and that was you. before and so i said there is one condition one predict is it but we need to change the rules for what it is it will go expansion it is too. it is not death transparent enough we need to change these rules. so we need to talk about expansion. but this discussion must be clear and reversible so we

must be able to advance more quickly with countries that make quick progress this we need to invest in such a candidates that are successful but also we need to be able to walk away from that it once we see it doesn't work. so it shouldn't be a theological system. one of the many. many people don't understand that term we. non-theological country if you will for the whatever it is that if you know the problem you want to. start a good one of enormously the well we need to be able to walk away from such a development or through and go back to the previous position so that's what's our condition but i am i'm quite determined here we need to be strict here of the one we're talking about budget as a it's due. what is good news but when we. talk about

this in march we'll have to see what the commission says what progress we expect these candidates to make of any and all of the cydonia. because i've talked about the prerequisites and if the results are positive if this confidence that this will work then of course we should start we should be able to start negotiations but they are 2 things you need to keep in mind but 1st the strategic objective we pursue in the western balkans is we need to keep them in europe we need to firmly anchored them in europe and that is a strategic objective that i support because if and when we talk to them about the expansion they'll accession is that a good methodology question mark. i think i agree to respect president does an excellent job and he is a great leader. but what happens there is determined by russia and china not by

europe. it was so at the end of the day it has no bearing on minute of the life of the population so we need to make sure we invest in a culture in infrastructure we've had negotiations with serbia for 5 years and in 22 years time. we will say well yes serbia will have to join at last they're getting impatient and rightly so but others have made that investment and i think this is a very theoretical position we have here but if we have one to do to. include the balkans in europe we must invest in 2 culture language infrastructure i know what we did from the french side. would look like that but that's what we should do rather than just start negotiation. is that is it is is there some

hypocrisy to that so we start negotiations but behind closed doors we say no they come they say have no chance of joining in the next 50 or 20 years it's not reasonable so we're looking these people aren't we and this is what i call hypocrisy. it is frustrating for those countries we tell them in 10 or 15 years you know we can't you can't join the next 10 or 15 years no we must tell them you can join if you will fulfill the conditions. and when we think of neighbors we only talk about enlargement e.u. enlargement it doesn't work with so many countries we are not fast enough we are not agile enough it can't work with 2223 countries so we need a common. foreign policy do you think that will be easier with more members policy towards turkey and russia we're not on a consistent here. those who tell us we must be faster when it comes to new members

they say ok but not we don't want to spend more than one percent of our g.d.p. it doesn't work so we want to make a slice of bread bigger but you add less butter to it. so the implicit strategy we have in europe possibly is that europe is a large market that keeps expanding its not a political power a political power has certain preferences it has convergences it has. that it has to be serious about how it behaves towards its neighbors it's not the only idea to the extent the plug as quickly as possible that is my opinion too joe you have. 2 quick questions which are law for quick answers one thing is that the core issue of europe for the last 6 or 7 years has been who leads and who follows. now the question is would you like to be

led by mrs merkel or would mrs merkel like to be led by you the 2nd question is your 2nd question is in the strategic culture that you've painted this defensive unity that that you want what language will be all speak 27 nations. so the public is show. that on the coffee so the 1st question i don't quite agree with here is that since the statement that you made let there still you will hear. i think it's in the d.n.a. of the european union.