why subscribe to d.w. books you meet your favorite writer might object but i write is to share what i find beautiful. on you to. the war is ugly more than 17000 civilians killed and injured since 2050 i would not give up the future of my children and their children so you can sleep at night they have to come and part piece suit year after year the war in yemen goes on with no apparent end in sight but who's really trying to stop it my guest this week here in munich is the country's foreign minister mohammad abdullah i'm dreaming of the many thousands of civilian casualties and the enormous human suffering all being from nothing.

i have to me welcome to hold it so thank you for having me you have much to say about the violence of the who fees and human rights violations plans they've committed but you appear to have almost nothing to say about the shocking casualties and bombings by the saudi led coalition that's killed many thousands of your civilians why is that well that's not accurate actually you know. the war is ugly i'm not. even going to sugarcoat that for you or for anyone a lot of civilians are dead yes this is this is shocking of and you hear the news and you know it's a big campaign but there's a difference between having human shields like that who these or some mistakes that happen in every conflict and every component in the suit is no difference but you

know that human rights are being massively violated by coalition forces but to look the other way which means going to a certain extent your complicity in the something to well i'm not sure what you mean by the way we have this giant which is an investigation body that has investigated over 170 claims we know that some mistakes we prove that there are some mistakes some of them all i want to talk about the united nations and loads of both but since march 2015 according to human rights watch the coalition has conducted numerous indiscriminate and disproportionate strikes killing thousands of civilians hitting civilian structures in violation of the laws of war but you turn away and you left out how horrible let me put it on record this is horrible killing any civilians in yemen it's horrible we want to end this what killing even one life let alone a child which happens even by coalition let me finish so why go on with indiscriminate and disproportionate attack it ok this is a big campaign right and there are some mistakes and we approve of we know that

some business more than some wenzel i think the u.n. need to investigate more and we know it's you know this thousands and thousands of circling and that if there's an airstrike a mistake everybody's reporting a part and they should report apart we should hear about it but there's a lot of mistakes that the host is and i'm not here to talk about the who he's under coalitions having mistakes i want in this war i'm from san am from those territories my family says that we think of it and we need to end it and just blaming now the coalition for and for all these will not end the war we need to end it yes we do want to stop the killing even though i don't. out of work but why do so many civilians have to die for the sake of saving a chaotic divided government such as yours which barely has legitimacy with the wintry let's start with legitimate interests legitimacy is not popularity i'm from a different country than the president but the president is the last elected president 6 and

a half 1000000 people elected our president 2012 for 2 years he will to use his mandate run out of his moments i must go to use it and tell that we have a democratic system that we allowed us to elect a new president who is going to give us and decides what a democratic city has. exactly the good many people and who would do that those who would like that ok i'm not going to allow you or anyone to tell me you have to choose this leader to get you out of this week ok let me if we choose and be that and we need to get out of it we don't want to be there for life that's why we actually had the revolution back in 2011 most of the worst thing about the bombings is that in all these years they have proved absolutely futile you have won nothing and the who through is remain unchanged so the catastrophic injuries and deaths among the civilian population have been developing you haven't spent a change in the way the coalition has been conducting this war there's no more campaign to actually targets other cities they've been sometimes some of the

escalations with the who it is and the sudanese renard involved in them and then it didn't happen because we know we need to end this what i we need to talk how to end this war we you know everything that happens in yemen is a reaction to the who things actions we could be and so on and one week if they just do the right thing and there i think is not hard to do and why don't we ask them when we actually answer that question more than 17000 civilians killed and injured since 2015 the lives were sacrificed for a stalemate proxy war that created the world's largest humanitarian disaster you really believe your government is worth that horrendous human eye on these our future is worth the. fighting not about a future without you cargo the future was a cry i could resign even today not tomorrow you know what if you know the who thiis and few know their ideology if you know that they want to have this are the american who thought as a figure nobody could act buffer zone and then we'd have a puppet government they want we would not accept that i would not give up the

future of my children and their children so you can sleep better at night you know it is my country my people are dead they are dying every day you expect me to just to saddle for any peace that would explode in our face any time in the future no i'm not going to consider that with these i'm from the territories i am a cd we don't approve of what they do and they have to come and part peace soon and we have to actually send the right signals to do that they have these illusions of power that you and others would feed in but as i say they're called action has to go where the coalition will end if we end the war but not before that if they end if the coalition ends yemen would descend into more chaos it's not about me the government or the prison how they stayed in power is imo still in yemen from those that you talk about the investigations that have gone on into what you term euphemistically mistakes in most cases you're not going to find the perpetrators and bring them to justice are you we know that 3 attacks on civilians several years ago are being referred by investigators for possible prosecution just 3 out of

countless bombing strikes that have repeatedly this civilian infrastructure shingles or. change or let me put a foot in it should check surely chump change look i let me put it for the record and he civilians are that those responsible wherever they are they should be hold accountable they should be but they will be and you know it fact is previous investigations don't encourage up when we do about what investigations are when we know what we were some for show 3 that's what you say can flow in and i say come in many many years to get. started or we could pass it on what you think there are the facts i mean yes. civilians are dead this is horrible we do the investigations but we need peace we need peace i mean we're talking about having peace and it's not easy you know the thing is you want to get away from the subject no investigation because they did not let me let me just because the national spirit of the bureau if you need international justice unfortunately sometimes don't come and hand in

hand we have to have peace and then we'll have transitional justice afterwards to get all this done you're the one who's refusing talks with the who thinks that's what you think oh that's what you've said now your ministry of innovation said it no no no i represent the foreign policy feel that we need to park soon however i'm not going to let the horses get off the hook and data we went to sweden and we signed to be they came back one year they haven't done anything to prove it should i just let them go off the hook and then move on no they have to be responsible not destroying your country piece by piece child by piece of a no stratagem by on for a structure that is no longer and continue with this humanitarian disaster why is it only when i ask in this as if you think ok some airport let me let me just jump to that why do you think of these are holding it hostage we're all printed in for internal flights they're refusing because they want to create this seizure this aggression against them and to hold on to power which they don't have who gave them the right to speak and for and behalf of me on behalf of millions if you have

a nice and they use or power and they have this illusion of taking us back before 62 will the minister you've dug in your heels the u.n. is seeking unconditional talks unconditional talks between you and the movies you've dug in your heels and rejected all the talk as didn't i didn't who says so january the 20th the minister of information said we categorically reject any talk about negotiations x. what we said is i am willing to go now to peace or if we're going to talk peace however we need to have the right conditions to god are ok the u.s. wants unconditional talks hala i don't want to go off. r.p. so they could have a good report of the student council i want to go and part beast to make sustainable peace for yemen and if there are these would sign degrees sign and act like what they did in sweden and come back and not implement we should actually hold them accountable for implementing silva don't let your cherry bomb go on dying them because you won't sit down and all that is not your setting goodish ask around

not going to be met and you're ignoring the advice of these are not innovations we're just we're just saying they have to implement what this site is that it's really hard to ask we cannot just go on by them signing our course and not implementing anything you know what we did back in 2014 we had a peace deal just a few days after the coup 2 days after the call it was the partnership and peace agreement you know what they agreed to they agreed to partnerships but the security measures they never talked about it why aren't you talking about that i mean it is there you want me to i want to again about would you responsible for most that i understand there are no angels in war but according to international investigators your forces have nothing to be proud of last year the u.n. panel of experts on yemen accused all sides in the war of committing horrific abuses from arbitrary killings to rape and torture with impunity so not only have you not won this war you also lost the only claim was over i had moral ground haven't you i'm not a mind going to claim were angels nobody yes we just need to end the 2 i am i can

tell you it's a long way from being in this government not to address only a dual says we're not out but surely deterring forcibly disappeared schools of peace well we have no respect for the rule of law we do we do but sometimes it's really hard to control everything i can tell you but it's not systematic killing of the yemeni people like you want to show it to be you know you keep just talking about 2 sides have you been to yemen have you been to santa have you been to i didn't have you been to for dinner and matter of you listen to the people themselves and that you can't just brush everything as as as you know she has been a divide as a rich countries fighting a poor country that is not the way to. and this what we know there's some atrocities happened i mean we are a few you know a few miles from from just that we know what history is like why continue to block a vital goods and fuel from coming into us and this is good this is a good question we're not actually doing so what we did is we're trying to block

the oil shipments that come from iran to the who the so human rights watch are going to be wrong have there in the latest report they say that basically the saudi led coalition's restriction on imports have worsened the humanitarian senate we're not sure and let me tell you why if you were you know what we said as her data was opened we would a few kilometers from the port the humanitarian came in the u.n. says you can't do this we said fine let's go to sweden and we need to change this out of school one year it's nothing having let me go back to the question the questions that we had actually holding her did i say this is not true we have reports from the you one pound and say that that you're probably not going to mention that shipments of iranian oil coming with counterfeit documents today of these were free you know we said by the crew 75 let's just check the papers they're saying let me just finish it's going to just finish and then i'll hear you we just said let's just check the papers the papers came the who his hold hostage and asked every mercians not to submit the papers so they could get to phony shipments so who

is holding that and then we can see that we let it go then all right mr minister human rights watch is saying the coalition has delayed and diverted fuel tankers closed critical ports and stopped goods from entering who controlled seaport what is the fuel thing and i just finished fuel needed to power generators to hospitals and pump water to homes has also how is the lock how do you justify preventing not only a chance but when i was justifying preventing anything in the past 3 months have been more fuel than that and that in the previous 3 months or so you checked the statistics and we're talking more than 2 years ago the u.n. high commissioner for human rights big both you and the rebels to let splays of food. to the country all parties to the conflict so the panel of experts on yemen have obstructed the distribution of humanitarian assistance the high commissioner begged you. have mercy on the people of yemen you know far as this gone when you actually know in order to show mercy on your own people we give you something you

know what i don't like something about the un is that they call everyone when they know exactly who's making the problem let me just give you an example a few days ago they had a meeting in brussels above the earth charter is that the who these are doing to the humanitarian field you know their want to tax your taxpayers' money that comes to yemen so they could steal it and not justify where they went to bias against you is this $1.00 of those not more they just want to see in a neutral part they don't want to say ok i am willing to receive any criticism but don't say all the parties tell me what i did wrong and i'll fix it but you have to point fingers also at the truth is point finger at me and also point 4 was that there you cannot just staff their kind of bad pointed chain you live in those are they going on it was clear to them now i know what i do and we're trying to struggle and as i said to you earlier government affiliated forces arbitrarily deterring forcibly disappeared schools of people when you say mistakes happen in war. no i mean we i mean give me specifics and we would actually fix them i'm

not saying them were you know you haven't read the report but i have read their own experts yes yes and there are plenty of service areas it was handled by as the very 1st reports so it is not you have kids and they were being fired we're talking about different everybody who violates human rights accuses the ideas of that but mostly it's just be more specific so we can know what we talked about we have an expert group which is the u.n. . panel according that that is actually following this recount said that movies are not even never made it to santa we believe whatever they say and whatever this is not biased we will check if we have mistakes would. there's another really experts to come from the human rights council the 1st really the 1st report was so by it just took exactly from the propaganda of the who thing and we looked the no we said you can't just have and factual checks you have to check them before you reported and then you can just say you know everyone you've never met let me give you some

facts 20100 strikes on the island by the coalition forces since the war began an average of 12 attacks a day these attacks have blown up hospitals school buses markets mosques farms bridges factories went out attention centers coalition air strikes the u.n. human rights commissioner said in 2017 coalition airstrikes continue to be the leading cause of child casualties as well as overall civilian casualties so he didn't know what he was talking about it's not rock ark we leave you isolation of human lives they have no idea what they saw things that happen and i told you before but you have to be a better leader than this you have to be clear on the report now it's a policy of you can't using civilian infrastructure other pilots so incompetent that they can't tell the difference to muffle up in a man we've been fed have and then we can then that we would continue years later that if you like half your life you will point out for what they are doing we need to make peace we don't want to continue this war and we have to do it

a few just weeks ago a few days ago they destructed hospitals it's not right but we don't want just to dwell on it we want to know what is now required to make peace and i know what is required to make peace we need to crack the illusions talk that joking is required on a daily mark talking over this is going to end as a negotiating table otherwise surely it won't be changed and the sooner it gets there the better and the moment you know what is and preventing those is one in yemen including the truth is no one needs to be done we debated it for $100.00 days in kuwait and you know what happened at the end they changed their mind you know why because they know that they would have. the thing if they don't cite and fortunately the international community especially some parties sending the wrong thing and that maybe if you just hold on to take in yemen hostage you would get a bit of the that's what happened and that's what we need to close the last year as well as fighting the who 3 rebels you became embroiled in another civil war this

time with forces in the south and then as the transitional council so not only are you failing to beat the who things you can't even keep your own side together and you cannot ignore the great react negatively about that if it was not a great record now let me talk about that as a precaution what happened is another complication that is not 12 months of course you know and very want to seed the determined to succeed on the comp of complication what it is that it won't of ok it's really hard to discuss something without really properly those jested of where this is actually happening if the s.t.c. our brothers and the f.c.c. really really represent all sufferance it would be an easy problem to solve the s.t.c. have a problem with south koreans themselves not with the f.c.c. it s.t.c. is just units outside of the control of the government that have been beaten up by the not at of eminence and then eventually they decided in august to oust the government from our 2nd capital that cannot happen and we made it clear to the un

again they were difficult for and it was only the saudis that patched together the agree i agree you called the riyadh agreement that's not working out there is when it is not working because there are some intransigence and we believe this at least would be a on all sides not and the s.t.c. site and we could prove it we have to tax we have the metrics that actually explains what we did but you know we have to pass that you've given away a lot to get the 3 agreement term to you've basically given saudis control over major decisions that your government has taken you say no according to the carnegie middle east center several articles of the riyadh agreement emphasize some of the supervision of this new government both vary and the u.a.e. will continue. intervene as they wish in your internal that i was there a price for your dream and that is not completely out of the price of the riyadh agreement is to get united so we can pick it back and make peace you know you can just have everything perfection is not really a possible way out in yemen and it is actually the enemy of good and that's what we

want at the sardar center for strategic studies says that your president hadi the s.t.c. the southern transitional council have accepted that all major government actions be coordinated by saudi arabia so basically you saw you know that is not true i am the compass of the saudi got that's what you think the foreign minister of yemen and i say a word i believe it is for the right to the yemenis now with the saudis want to know what the immoralities want network anyone wants and that's proven yes we in riyadh we go back to add a bit we speak our minds and it is our responsibility and decisions we have in the riyadh increment conceded to have some way in actually dealing with the south of the sudanese now that instead of them are these and we need peace we don't want to fight a war in the northern wall in the south and we know that the f.c.c. is do not represent all the step of the whole southron and that that's the issue too and they have to know that they cannot just continue being outside the form of the government if we if this government is dissolved you would have more chaos in

yemen then you would think it is not as easy as you think last year the saudis actually expelled one of your government advisors to the because work he'd wanted to sayas criticized coalitional actually and the son of a man is a diplomat with me he actually came and did something against protocol it's not because he still has to do anything they don't expel him his chairman ended and we did it from the office because he actually vitalism of the cause of the diplomatic court now you can't just politicize everything like this i don't think it is right i don't know it's asked a very important matter how do you know he's a diplomat who actually didn't actually respect the rules of law can conquer about the rape when what but you could go back to yemen he could be anywhere else because go back to saudi arabia why not but not as a diplomat it ended. talk to me about corruption go on in your state because it's

not enough that there's a huge war the humanitarian disaster seems that the state money is not being siphoned off and corruption is goes involving the central boke of yemen where is that going where the central bank i read the report which you're referring to now we have from the u.n. panel of experts just yes of course and that's what you're referring to yes you know it's talking about and some paragraphs and so it is about you know i spoke to the prime minister about it we've sacked 2 governors already our books are open anderson youngest coming to an end to actually check the books of the central bank it's open there we also the bank having been audited for 6 years i asked the prime minister of this report why don't you just let the panel going check the books you know what he said didn't ask to go and check now anderson young and come in to check if we have some mistakes if we have some corruption charges we will be ready to act upon them we're transparent common check them send them in the team you want to do so we need to end this war we don't want to continue yes there's some corruption i'm not going to deny it but we need to end it and we're willing to

crack any cases if you if you just fight them i mean just point them at us and we will do so you keep saying you want to in this war do you really believe that a single unitary state is going to emerge from the turbo destruction that you and the other combatants of inflicting on the us there is something i think we as yemenis need to know what's the difference between and means to prove something and the goal you know i'm talking about the massive divisions in your understand and get to that the goal is to raise up the standards of living of the yemeni people unfortunately some camps would actually create the means which is unity central government that is as actually the goal which is wrong you know so we gave the central government to go it didn't work and the national dialogue everyone including the who of the said thousands decided on a federal system let's just give it a chance let's just give this for the sun a chance to see. not all of it quite a lot of it no wider lauded for all and said so you know the central no longer the

last go along and i took the divisions on your interest rates and i sent to you actually quoted have actually sung paul in the south and not all of them more than 50 percent even 60 percent want to stay in some form of for drug government not not everyone in the south want to secede and even if they know you have a civil war within a civil war that's quite an achievement isn't the it's not a civil war than a civil war there were so few skirmishes back in the south and it's over now skirmishes that kicked you out of aden yes you know we went through other asylum issues and yes but now it's all over the sky who was in the other no prime minister just came from adam yesterday and he's gone back now i mean it's not like the whole south of turning against the government in check the south showed what had been violent and the hedge i mean it is not the case you know the s.t.c. need to know that they have to cooperate to be part of this government they don't they don't have the backing of all the south africans those in the south opposed them more than those in the new serving need to know they have to cooperate they

are dead set on well known as a session who said so they did know that is not correct ask how do as the others who signed the riyadh agreement i mean it is not correct they want to stay and they said so that the southron issue for them not what we say would come after we finish the war with the who thinks and then we can discuss it that's what they say so you know just the facts. oh peace and you were over and world com and we wanted to come but we're not just going to have any peace with the who is you know i'm not going to give the future of a few men to those who believe that they could just you know men and have this defined why to all of us look what they do in iraq we're not going to accept that they need to know that they could share power but they cannot get to do it with guns facing and you know pointing in our face more hollowed out on what thanks very much for being more thank you so much for this particular discussion.

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