i'm not laughing at the germans because sometimes they are placed and i think with the family and i think deep into the german culture i. knew to take this ground that day out to you it's all out there next time a child joined me to me that at. last. the war is ugly more than 17000 civilians killed and injured since 25th i will not give up the future of my children and their children so you can sleep at night they have to come and puff piece year after year of the war in yemen goes on with no apparent end in sight but who's really trying to stop it my guest this week here in munich is the country's foreign minister mohammad abdullah dreamy of the many thousands of civilian casualties and the enormous human suffering all being from laughing.

all of them have to me welcome covert so thank you for having me you have much to say about the violence that the who feeds the human rights violations the plans they've committed but you appear to have almost nothing to say about the shocking casualties and bombings by the saudi led coalition that's killed many thousands of your civilians why is there well that's not accurate actually you know. the war is likely not. even going to sugarcoat that for you or for anyone a lot of civilians are dead yes this is this is tracking i mean you hear the news and you know it's a big campaign but there's a difference between having human shields like that who these or some mistakes that happen in every conflict in every campaign and the suit is no different but you

know that human rights are being massively violated by coalition forces but to look the other way which means going to a certain extent your complicity in the something to well i'm not sure what you mean by looking the other way we have this giant which is an investigation body that has investigated over 170 claims we know there's some mistakes we prove that there are some mistakes some of them all i want to talk about the united nations and loads of both but since march 2015 according to human rights watch the coalition has conducted numerous indiscriminate and disproportionate strikes killing thousands of civilians hitting civilian structures in violation of the laws of war but you turn away and you left out how horrible let me put it on record this is horrible killing any civilians in yemen is horrible we want to end this what killing even one life let alone a child which happened even by coalition let me finish so i go on with indiscriminate disproportionally is it ok this is a big campaign right and there's some mistakes and we approve of we know there's

some business than some whens look i think the u.n. need to investigate more and we know it's you know this thousands and thousands of circling and dead if there's an airstrike a mistake everybody's reporting a part and they should report a pilot we should hear about it but there's a lot of mistakes that the host is and i'm not here to talk about the who he's on the coalition's having mistakes i want in this war i'm from san am from those territories my family says that we're sick of it and we need to end it and just blaming now the coalition for and for all these will not end the war we need to end it yes we do we want to stop the killing even if i don't. stellar work but why did so many civilians have to die for the sake of saving a chaotic divided government such as yours which barely has legitimacy with a wintry start with digital service legitimacy is not populated i'm from a different country than the president but the president is the last effected president 6 and

a half 1000000 people elected our president 2012 for 2 years where he will to use this man in this round of those moments i must go to use it and tell that we have a democratic system that we allow this to elect a new president who is going to do so and who decides what a democratic city has. exactly to get many people and who would do that those who would like that ok i'm not going to allow you or anyone to tell me you have to choose this leader to get you out of this week ok let me if we choose and be that and we need to get out of it we don't want to be there for life that's why we actually had the revolution back in 2011 mr the worst thing about the bombing says that in all these years they have proved absolutely futile you have won nothing and the who through is remain unchanged so the catastrophic injuries and deaths among the civilian population have been developing haven't they spent a change in the way the coalition has been conducting this war there's no more campaign to actually targets and other cities they've been sometimes some of the

escalations with the who it is and the sudanese renard involve them and then it didn't happen because we know we need to end this what i we need to talk how to end this war we you know everything that happens in yemen is a reaction to the who things actions we could be and someone one week if they just do the right thing and there i think is not hard to do and why don't we ask them when we actually answer that question more than 17000 civilians killed and injured since 2015 the lives were sacrificed for a stalemate proxy war that created the world's largest humanitarian disaster you really believe your government is worth that her ruthless human imams leave our future is worth the. fighting not the behavior which without you can go the future without trying i could resign even today not tomorrow you know what if you know the who thiis and pheno their ideology if you know that they want to have this under medicaid who the as a figure nobody could get that buffer zone and then we'll have a puppet government they want we will not accept that i will not give up the future

of my children and their children so you can sleep better at night you know it is my country my people are dead they are dying every day you expect me to just to saddle for any peace that would explode in our face any time in the future no i'm not going to consider that with these i'm from the territories i am of the we don't approve of what they do and they have to come and part peace soon and we have to actually send them our signals to do that they have these illusions of power that you and others would feed in but as i say the calderon has to go where the coalition would end if we end the war but not before that if they end if the coalition ends yemen would descend into more chaos it's not about us only the government or the president how he stays in power it's about still in yemen you talk about the investigations that have gone on into what you term euphemistically mistakes in most cases you're not going to find the perpetrators and bring them to justice are you we know that 3 attacks on civilians several years ago are being referred by investigators for possible prosecution just 3 out of countless bombing

strikes that have repeatedly civilian infrastructure shingles or. change or let me put a foot in it should check should chump change look i let me put it for the record and he civilians are dead those responsible wherever they are they should be hold accountable they should be but they will be and you know it factors previous investigations don't encourage up to a lot of over investigations and when we know what we will some for show 3 well that's what mistaken float and i still call it many many years to get. started or we could classify what you think there are facts i mean yes. civilians are dead this is horrible we do the investigations but we need peace we need peace i mean we're talking about having peace and it's not easy you know the thing is you want to get away from the subject no investigation now because they did not let me let me just be a national story just if you need international justice unfortunately sometimes

don't come hand in hand we have to have peace and then we'd have transitional justice afterwards to get all this done you're the one who is refusing talks with the who thinks that's what you think oh that's what you've said now your ministry of information said it no no no i represent the foreign policy feel that we need to park soon however i'm not going to let the horses get off the hook and her data we went to sweden and we signed the deal they came back one year they haven't done anything to prove it should i just let them go off the hook and then move on no they have to be responsible not destroying your country piece by piece child by piece of a nurse to go on for a structure that is no wrong and continue with this humanitarian disaster is a documented asin disaster if you think it's an airport let me let me just jump to that why do you think that these are holding it hostage we're open it in for internal flights they're refusing because they want to carry this siege this aggression against them and to hold on to power which they don't have who gave them the right to speak and for and behalf of me on behalf of millions if you have an

ease and the use or power and they have this illusion of taking this bad before 62 will the minister you've dug in your heels the u.n. is seeking unconditional talks unconditional talks between you and the movies you've got the new to your heels and rejected all the talk as didn't i didn't do since all january the 28th floor minister of information said we categorically reject any talk about negotiation hasek's what we said is i am willing to go now to peace or if we're going to talk peace however we need to have the right conditions to god are ok the u.s. wants unconditional talks hala i don't want to go off. r.p. so they could have a good report for the student council i want to go entire piece to make sustainable peace for yemen and if the truth is would sign degrees sign i like what they did in sweden and come back and implement we should actually hold them accountable for implementing something i don't like your cherry bomb going on going then because you won't sit down and know who that is now and you are setting goodish ask around

not going to be met and you're ignoring the advice of this is not in addition to just ok we're just saying they have to implement what this site is that it's really hard to ask we cannot just go on by them signing our course and not implementing anything we know what we did back in 2014 we had a peace deal just a few days after the coup 2 days after the call it was the partnership of peace agreement you know what they agreed to they agreed to partnerships but the security measures they never talked about it why aren't you talking about that i mean it is that you want me to not try again about would you responsible for most that i understand there are no angels in war but according to international investigators your forces have nothing to be proud of last year the u.n. panel of experts on yemen accused all sides in the war of committing a reflective uses from arbitrary killings to rape and torture with impunity so not only have you not won this war you also lost any claims over my moral ground haven't you a mind going to claim were angels nobody has we just need to end the 2 and i can

tell you it's a long way from being it was a government government especially etudes the losses were not arbitrarily deterring forcibly disappeared schools of pain well we have no respect for the rule of law we do we do but sometimes it's really hard to control everything i can tell you but it's not systematic killing of a yemeni people like you want to show it to be you know you keep just talking about 2 sides have you been to yemen have you been to santa have you been to i didn't have you been to for didn't matter if you listen to the people themselves and that you can't just brush everything as as as you know sheer us in a divide as a rich countries fighting a poor country that is not the way to. and this what we know there's some atrocities happened i mean we are few you know a few miles from from dresden we know what history is like why continue to block a vital aid goods and fuel from coming into this and this is good this is a good question we're not actually doing so what we did is we're trying to block the oil shipments to come from iran to that all the social rights watch are going

to be wrong have been the latest report they say that basically the saudi led coalition's restrictions on imports have worsened the humanitarian that is we're not sure and let me tell you why if you were you know what we said as he did i was open we were a few kilometers from the port the humanitarian came and the u.n. says we can't do this we said fine let's go to sweden and we need to change this out of school one year is nothing habit then we go back to the question that questions that we had actually holding for data say this is not true we have reports from the un paddon said that that you're probably not going to mention that shipments of iranian all you're coming with counterfeit documents today these were free you know we set by the crease 75 let's just check the papers here saying let me just give me just finish and then i'll hear you we just said let's just check the papers the papers came the who his hold hostage and asked every mercians not to submit the papers so they could get to phony shipments so who's holding that and

then we can see that we let it go then a great minister minister human rights watch is saying the coalition has delayed and diverted fuel tankers closed critical ports and stopped goods from entering controlled seaport what is the usual 'd thing and i just finished fuel needed to power generator stars because and pump water to homes has also how in stock how do you justify preventing the heart of a real chance when i was justifying preventing anything in the past 3 months have been more fuel than that and in the previous 3 months or so you checked the statistics and we're talking more than 2 years ago the u.n. high commissioner for human rights big both you and the rebels to let splays of food. and to the country all parties to the conflict so the panel of experts on yemen have obstructed the distribution of humanitarian assistance the high commissioner begged you. have mercy on the people of you have you know a month far as this goes on when you actually know in order to show mercy on your

own people we give you something you know what i don't like something about the un is that they call everyone when they know exactly who's making the problem let me just give you an example a few days ago they had a meeting and brussel about the charter is that the who these are doing to the humanitarian field you know their want to tax your taxpayers' money that comes to yemen so they could steal it and not justifiably went to bias against you is $1.00 of those not more there's one to be in a neutral party you don't want to say ok i am willing to receive any criticism but don't say all the parties tell me what i did wrong and i'll fix it but you have to point fingers also at the truth is point a finger at me and also point forward at that with you you cannot just paragraph they're going of they have pointed chain you live in those are they going to be always clear and then now i know what i do and we're trying to struggle as i said to you earlier government affiliated forces arbitrarily deterring forcibly disappeared schools of people when you say mistakes happen in war in transit they fancy excuse no i mean we i mean give me specifics and we would actually fix them

i'm not saying you haven't read the report but i have read their own experts yes yes and there are plenty of serious a very serious report it was i'm told by as the very 1st reports so it is like you have closing them up being 5 we're talking about different everybody who violates human rights accuses the ideas of that but mostly it's just be more specific so we can know what we talk about we have an expert group which is the un. panel according to that that is actually following the story council that movies are not even let it get to santa we believe whatever they say and whatever that is not biased we will check if we have mistakes would. there's another really experts to come from the human rights council the 1st really the 1st report was so by it just took exactly from the pay gap propaganda of the who thing and we looked the no we said you can't just have and factual checks you have to check them before you reported and then you can just say you know hello everyone let me let me give you

some facts 20100 strikes on the island by the coalition forces since the war began an average of 12 attacks a day these attacks have blown up hospitals school buses markets mosques farms bridges factories where no detention centers coalition air strikes the u.n. human rights commissioner said in 2017 coalition airstrikes continue to be the leading cause of child casualties as well as overall civilian casualties so he didn't know what he was talking about this natural are we you i said mission of human rights they have no idea what they're saying is that i've been and i told you before but you have to be a penalty more than this you have to be clear on the report now it's a policy of you can't using civilian infrastructure other pilots so incompetent that they can't tell the difference to them are fed up in them and we've. had happened then we can then that we would continue years later that if you like half your life you will point out for what they are doing we need to make peace we don't want to continue this war and we have to do it a few just weeks ago

a few days ago they are struck at hospitals it's not right but we don't want just to dwell on it we want to know what is now required to make peace and i know what is required to make peace we need to crack the illusions talk that joking is required or it is not talking over this is going to end as a negotiating table otherwise sure it won't be shared and the sooner it gets there the better and the moment you know what it is and prevent those is one young man calling the who these no one needs to be done we debated it for $100.00 days in kuwait and you know what happened at the end they changed their mind you know why because they know that they would have a. better thing if they don't cite and fortunately the international community especially some parties sending the wrong thing and that maybe if you just hold on to take in yemen hostage you would get a bit of the that's what happened and that's what we need to close the last year as well as fighting the who 3 rebels who became embroiled in another civil war this

time with forces in the south known as the transitional council so not only are you failing to beat the who feels you can't even keep your own side together and you cannot that is another great that it is about that if it was not a great record now let me talk about that as a precaution what happened is another complication that is not 12 months of course you know and they want to cede the determined to succeed on the comp of complication what it is that it won't if ok it's really hard to discuss something without really proper those jested of where this is actually happening if the f.t.c. our brothers and the f.c.c. really really represent all sufferance it would be an easy problem to solve the s.t.c. have a problem with southrons themselves not with the f.c.c. is that s.t.c. is just units outside of the control of the government that i've been beefing up with another of m. and s. and then eventually they decided in august to ask the government from our 2nd capital that cannot happen and we made it clear to the un again they were difficult

for and it was only the saudis that patched together the agree i agree you called the riyadh agreement that's not working either is when it is not working because there's just some intransigence and we believe this at least would be a on all sides no and the s.t.c. site and we could prove it we have the facts we have the metrics that actually explains what we did but you know we have to pass that to you've given away a lot to get the 3 agreement term to you basically given saudi's control over major decisions that your government has taken you say no according to the carnegie middle east center several articles of the riyadh agreement emphasize saudi supervision of this new government both very and the u.a.e. will continue. intervene as they wish in new york in term of that as i found out was the price for your dream and that is not completely out of the price of the reality griminess to get united so we can big get back and make peace you know you can't just have everything perfection is not really a possible way out in yemen and it is actually the enemy of good and that's what we

want at the sardar center for strategic studies says that your president heidi to see the southern transitional council have accepted that all major government actions become warden noted by saudi arabia so basically you saw you know that is not true i am the compass of a society that's what you think the foreign minister of yemen and i say a word i believe it is for the right to the yemenis now with the sudanese want to know what the iraqis one network anyone wants and that's proven yes we in riyadh we go back to other but we speak our minds and it is our responsibility and decisions we have in the riyadh increment conceded to have some way in actually dealing with the south of the sudanese now that instead of them what are these and we need peace we don't want to fight a war in the northern wall in the south and we know that the f.c.c. is do not represent all the state the whole southron and that that's an issue too and they have to know that they cannot just continue being outside the form of the government if we if this government is dissolved you have more kind us in yemen

then you would think it is not as easy as you think it is that last year the saudis actually expelled one of your government advisors to the mood because work he'd want to size criticized coalitional actually in the son of god and then is a diplomat with me he actually came and did something against protocol it's not because he still has to do anything they don't expel him his chairman ended and we did it from the office because he actually vitalism of the cause of the diplomatic corps now you can't just politicize everything like this i don't think it is right i don't know if i stay for the whole matter how do you know he's a diplomat who actually didn't actually respect the rule of law can conquer about the arabia when one but you could go back to yemen you could be anywhere else we could go back to saudi arabia why not but not as a diplomat it ended. talk to me about corruption go on in your state because it's

not enough that there's a huge war the humanitarian disaster it seems that the state money is not being siphoned off in corruption scopes involving the central boke of yemen where is that going where the central bank i am or the report which you're referring to now we have from the u.n. panel of experts just yes of course that's what you're trying to guess you know is talking about and some paragraph that's you know i spoke to the prime minister about it we've sacked 2 governors already our books are open anderson youngest coming to identify actually check the books of the central bank it's open there we are so the boat haven't been audited for 6 years i asked the prime minister of this report why don't you just let the panel going check the books you know what he said didn't ask to go and check now anderson young and come in to check if we have some mistakes if we have some corruption charges we will be ready to act upon them we're transparent common check them send them in the team you want to do so we need to end this war we don't want to continue yes there's some corruption i'm not going to deny it but we need to end it and we're willing to crack any cases if you if you

just fight them i mean just point them at us and we will do so you keep saying you want to in this war do you really believe that a single unitary state is going to emerge from the turbot destruction that you believe other combatants of inflicting on the usa something i think we as yemenis need to know what's the difference between a means to prove something and the goal you know i'm talking about the massive divisions and you understand i get to that the goal is to raise up the standards of living of the yemeni people unfortunately some camps would actually create the means which is unity central government that is as actually the goal which is wrong you know so we gave the central government to go it didn't work and the national dialogue everyone including the who the stuff our friends decided on a federal system let's just given a chance let's just give this for the son a chance to see. not all of it quite a lot of it know why the lord for all of this said so you know the central no

longer the last go along and i took the divisions on your interest rates and our center there they actually quoted had actually sung paul in the south and not all of them more than 50 percent even 60 percent want to stay in some form of for drug government not not everyone in the south want to secede and even if they know you have a civil war within a civil war that's quite an achievement isn't the it's not a civil war than a civil war there were so few skirmishes back in the south and it's over now skirmishes that kicked you out of aden yes you know we went through other asylum issues and yes but now because of all the disco who was another know of prime minister just came from adam yesterday and he's gone back now i mean it's not like the whole south is turning against the government you check the south showed what had been violent and the hedge i mean it is not the case you know best you see need to know on that they have to cooperate to be part of this government they don't they don't have the backing of all the south and those in the south opposed them more than those in the new serving need to know they have to cooperate they are

dead set on well known as a session who said so they did know that is not correct ask i'll do as the others who signed the riyadh agreement i mean it is not correct they want to stay and they said so that the south korean issue for them not what we say would come after we finish the war with the who thing and then we can discuss if that's what they say so you know just the facts. oh peace when you go over in world com and we wanted to come but we're not just going to have any peace with the hoovers you know i'm not going to give the future of a few men to those who believe that they could just you know. and have this defined way to all of us like what they do in iraq we're not going to accept that they need to know that they could share power that they could not get to do it with guns facing and you know pointing in our face more a whole lot of drama that's very much being more thank you so much for this particular discussion.

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