the 1st beethoven is for her. is for the. plato is for cause plato for his for play beethoven 202250th anniversary here on. you know more you talk about a world who is being protected i'm asking you very simply who's protecting him i'm all. i keep on saying. i will keep on pushing for all the truth come out after the murder of the prominent multi-use journalist daphne carolina going to malta itself has become a byword for violence and corruption my guest this week here in munich is the

country's foreign minister everest bartolo he says he wants to improve malta's tarnished image but how many more secrets have to come out before that will be possible. ever aspire to welcome to conflict so thank you you've made it clear that in the wake of the murder of stephany corona and all the corruption scandals that have followed that malta needs to rebuild its reputation that isn't going to happen until their body starts telling the truth is that i agree at the fact when i was appointed for and i 1st minister because they told me a goal ahead then to what you can do i made it very clear i'm not a beautician or a plastic surgeon have there are a guillotine which have to be dealt with they have to be dealt with in malta in terms of the reality or not of the presentation of reality where we're getting to

possibly what some of those 30 things are but i'm curious why former ministers like you supported a government that you knew was rotten to the core. where when things started coming out of the time of the panama papers for the last 16 i made it very clear that thought i'd accept a bit. but you say go on i stayed on. i had the choice. i admire savonarola but i admire good. more i have to i had the survival strategy where i could fight another battle we used that experience together with got to fallujah who was europe of the party at the time and now he's in the democratic party to negotiate things to make the government more accountable but your collective silence over the years helped cement in power a government that became a byword for corruption with conflicts of interest multiplying in the prime minister's office and the rule of law or seriously undermined and you went along

with by staying in the government. they have said recently that perhaps. it would have been wiser to resign in 2016 as a pressure to change things i acknowledge that but i have spoken even of the over the last 4 years against what you have just said it is the big question of a lot of. moving i will get on to say that i don't think it was very very i don't think of if you were to live in a small society like mortar you know the rules the way i spoke and what i said was very very clear o.c. c.r.p. the highly respected organized crime and corruption reporting project i'm sure you know it they named joseph must get person of the year for 2019 an annual award that highlights an individual who has done most to advanced organized criminal activity and corruption in a given year it's a pretty shameful ward to the man you worked for isn't it but i've made it clear to

him even in 2016 that the tours going to be in his interest to take the necessary steps to get those people in government who are involved with them on a lot of papers and he didn't have to pay the huge price for it so how do you feel he deserves the award. i think i made it very clear to him that it was in his interest for a person to have contributed so much to a konami group to the introduction of civil liberties and more to it then to have his record painted with that weather doesn't excuse him for what he did later doesn't know just because the economy was booming you know of course murder and corruption were also new meaning of the time i have made that also very clear that economic growth shouldn't come at any expense we should have a can on the growth with rule of law and where it can govern o.c. c.r.p. said that on the muskrats leadership criminality and corruption have flourished and in many cases gone unpunished creating an environment that led to the 27000 murder

knicker on the goalie if they knew that the same message was coming from other international watchdogs you had to know what was going on yourself delusion. not completely and while i go to and i'm not trying to get away from this. first of all one of the big problems that we have and again i'm not trying to explain it away is that in our small society. personal networks personal relations are stronger than institutionally once and at the expense good public has been so smart because unfortunately the rule of family or do law friends is stronger than the rule of law and this is an issue that we have to deal with and we've come to a point now that we cannot delay taking all the necessary steps and more. so that's an outrageous assertion doesn't it minister say the personal relationships are worth more than the rule of law but i'm saying if you were in government what's worth more than the rule of more yes but in the small societies i'm saying and

there again i'm not trying to excuse anything small island states like malta microstates which are not as the size of minnesota but one 3rd of its population. it is true that when you look at the primary groups of friends and family and then the 2nd the groups are institutions should come in the 1st group and the 2nd group it's very poorest there's no bond there between one and the other holland saying is that in our society this it is a more formidable challenge to make sure that there is the rule of law that there are rules and there are regulators who serve in government are expected to accept that challenge and rather they are going to. give one of the things you limited was that you didn't take a stronger stand in 2016 against at least one of those minister friends of the former prime minister conrad mitzi who had been named in the panama papers your biggest political mistake yet you called it even so your behavior was inexplicable

wasn't it you called publicly for mits his resignation but you refused to endorse the parliamentary vote of no confidence against him or because the way the motion had been framed and then the amendments that were put to death made it possible for us to hold the government to my government to introduce measures to increase accountability there but in the end you helped to keep in office a man whose behavior in your own view had been shot the a new adequate mycenaeans your old my single vote would it have made a difference it had every was going to vote makes a difference on islam but now doesn't it not but not in that case with you where you have suppose you started another going to you didn't stand for your principle i agree with you but i tried to use that to negotiate measures to hold the government to account now when it happened when the city was impossible. well some measure started coming in but then when this time the news started coming after november i

made it very clear that i was going to resign and they said either they go or i go and they made enough pressure for them to go. but the fact is that your silence and your continued support of the former prime minister made you and your colleagues complicit in this dysfunctional corrupt system i tried to use internal pressure to get things done this time in november told me to remain where they wanted me to me pete called part of this swamp of corruption and financial curd. i try to do my bit better they haven't done enough but i am committed to do all i can to because this is a very important time for us it's a moment of truth i would call it we can exist a shared crossroads since our independence 55 years ago we either get our house in order or we i think threaten our sovereignty and our livelihood the motor but there been so many warnings like that before have and then they were ignored in 2017 year

and chief justice sylvia comey larry warned that instead of the rule of law motor was heading to what he called the rule of delinquents another that was enough to change anybody's mind then wasn't warning in stark sharp terms like there. could be when when things started becoming more clear for us because you might think that i'm trying to get away from what you're telling me but. it's only recently that things became so clear to us what was happening i know that even in 2016 they warned that there was a shadow government and the network of decision makers that were that were influencing what was happening pretty to name names did you might think it was clear who was a fairy really it wasn't oh it's not going to 63 they think it was doing it live given that the same people were still in government and still are part of the establishment. i made internal pressure and i didn't manage to get them committed to concede that the whole system was in fact set up to to bypass independent

scrutiny and prevent any kind of accountability wasn't it i mean the pit the prime minister's office for instance took over responsibility for areas that presented particular opportunities for money laundering online gaming investment migration regulation of financial services it was clear that it was these areas were drowning in corruption and by the pratt getting the prime minister involved directly in them was keeping the regulators at bay wasn't it but i'm not changing i'm not i don't agree that all these activities and all these different economic sectors are rotten and corrupt there are definitely parts which are and where one of the problems i think that we had. respective of the share of human nature with design of the that there is when you have such strong economic growth and the regulators are not given enough resources or intentionally. to

a certain is there is a skills intention to a certain extent yes but not all of them either but for example when it comes to financial investigations those have been given a lot of resources i think the biggest problem that we have and the weakest weakest link in the chain is the economic crimes unit of the police and unless that is beefed up and really resourced with well qualified people of integrity this problem will remain because ultimately we're going to be judged on how many people are prosecuted not what i'm telling you now or what we say in granting ground that it's really difficult when the judges and magistrates were appointed by the prime minister was that were the case in a system described by the council of europe's parliamentary assembly as incompatible with judicial independence and the rule of law but i think this is not fair in this case for a very simple reason it does government the appointment of magistrates hand the judges have been more independent of the executive arm of government than ever

before before the prime minister had talked to jurisdiction no it's not like that anymore there is a judicial appointment committee and we are intent definitely on taking the steps that the venice commission has indicated which runs through is to do so for not on but we have started that i don't use it don't even in the last thought that differ in the last week even sorry even in the last month apart from the last week sets have been taken to start implementing those recommendations under did you prime minister. in may 26th. when you said things were fine. they plainly weren't were they you said the government had already started in 2016 to introduce a culture of better political responsibility and transparency that wasn't true will you know it all's true those were the measures that i told you about 3 years later the council of europe reported that major scandals were rising going unreported and

uninvestigated for the 1st time we have we have introduced this is the contradiction of this government and of the government as well for the 1st time we introduced measures to hold government to account that had never been introduced before now where they were they were they weren't working or nuff but why give them away give them a free pass say a culture better political responsibility and transparency has been introduced then we had the panama papers the electric gas the further hilman the further vittles global health care for the golden passport all all time and again featuring the same key figures close to the prime minister and the police and several instances mysteriously failing to act and none of that was serious enough for you to say you've crossed my red lines you've crossed the many many times i did see it entirely. and they repeated the weakest link was and still remains even know and we have to act about the economic crimes in it because it's not enough to name people

it's not that i have to investigate them then you need to prosecute just about although you know much much more than you are telling them to do more than you've ever told you no names you know places you know where the bodies are buried don't you. have you taken a vow of silence no i haven't and if the hell are you afraid for you're alive one of them you seen what happens to people no tell the truth and will know that you know very little that if there is anyone who has not taken a vow of silence. me because i have spoken i have spoken up time and take in marriage you don't surround the subject you make cryptic comments like justice can be served without fear or favor without burning this country to cinders and without burning or hurting those who want justice done what on earth does not mean it's not critical to the earth does it mean who is it addressed to was addressed to my government but then they pull enough pressure for that change to happen

you also there are very facebook the country cannot protect murderers money launderers and other criminals justice has to be done and i don't really wasn't the country protecting these people was it it was your fellow politicians and lawyers servants like you were either turning a blind eye or actively perverting the course of justice and pushing for that to happen it still has to happen and pushing for that to happen just about all who exactly was and is protecting murderers in malta who 1st of all when it comes to the assassination of the cabinet ality we have. a judicial process going on now because the alleged killers have been brought to justice but you know more than this don't you you know more than this do you mean i know more than this you know more you talk about murderers being protected i'm asking you very simply who's protecting them on malta who i keep on saying when i will keep on pushing

for all the truth to come out but you're not answering my question i'm asking you i cannot give you my not no course an abundance of because of their names why do journalists of the police if there are investigations that i can assure you that i'm doing my duty and my only being to the police. i'm doing my duty that i don't know what that means because you kept a 1000000 as i will who was clearly more corrupt than he should have been hugely so i will i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out and they would stake my reputation on that how do we know that when you won't you know just use it in front of the camera and you won't tell me what you'll not be judged you will be trashed by what happens but it's this is exactly this climate of silence and these networks of criminal corruption that created a permissive environment and allowed someone to believe they could get away with the killing of dufner corona girly and silence free journalism they have no better

they haven't got away with it they haven't come here with it we have had political assassinations before and no one was brought to justice at least in this case we've started doing these things this isn't the end of as story no it's not the end of the story and it cannot be the end of the story that all the truth it's uncovered and by the by admitting that it isn't the end of the story you know that the story goes further and you know that this network that arranged for her assassination hasn't come to light yet has it but this won't has we have to keep on pushing for all the truth to be uncovered. we only have your word that you'll do that and with that we'll do it it will happen we have the commitment of the prime minister of israel and the minister for the interior who has started taking a courageous decision but this investigation was tainted from the start with and the truth is that no law some of the council of europe warn that a series of magistrate should have been taken off the case because of conflicts of interest likewise the investigating police officer false claims that sayed said

were made by the minister of the interior about progress in the investigation if that's not an investigation tainted with only the will because it did give results and 11 important point in all this is that there are other services involved including europe so even if there are elements who want to cover up that information is available to the force beyond malta so that there's a good guarantee that the whole truth will come up that nicaragua leads here didn't have much that was nice to say but you did see. december 26th in she wrote the tolo were decent and honest with the of stuck with the labor party since the 1970 is of course not decent and honest people left in droves when they saw what was going on she's right isn't she and no i don't think so i don't i don't agree with her comment i respect what she has this done but i think she was very prettiest against him and if you were decent would he have allowed himself to be

part of muskets power hungry bandwagon because if i and others worked it out from the outside he had to have known it from the inside that they were planning corrupt deals and i don't agree with him because i did in my own little way and i'm not trying to. put myself in the in the role of a knight in the shining garment in my own little way i did what i could to train change things since i've entered politics and these problems that she's writing about she didn't try clegg and the other party was in government i have tried to bring about changes in my own lives a look at anyone just corrupt as you're aware that is a but i beg to differ i beg to differ. she reported what she saw in front of she reported what she saw going on in malta the time she will be as per the 2 way should try to kill before that i think it's unfair and the baton but it's just about all if you want malta's reputation response you're going to have to prove

that this new government is better than the last one so far the signs are so far the signs are good no i don't think it's the koran they're going to tell you no santa son of daphne says musket is still the power behind the throne the huge networks of influence and fanatical support in the labor in the city no i don't agree with matthew and the steps that have been taken during this month shows that there is a new good will to get things done really look no further than the man and i would go himself and his family have been happy with the person who has been investigating the death of their of their money people that they did not they did not say that the investigator was was corrupt so i didn't say i didn't say they did but look no further than the man with the new justice portfolio edward zammit described as a family friend of the muskets used to go on holiday with them but i can tell you again that the new subs of have been taken in the last month shows that there is

a new good will we will be judged not to pete not but what you are saying now but what will happen in the next weeks and in the next month really it doesn't look very much like it when the contract the government awarded a contract to the disgraced former minister conrad mitzi the man you wanted to resign after he was named in the panama paper he was offered a job as a tourism consultant on $80000.00 euros a year which had to be council rapidly obviously a huge public out and it was a new say this government and that is it was can sit here can somebody to through public know russia know i don't agree why was he given his account contract in the 1st place if he was about to be a legal rubbish a new broom sweeping up the corruption you bring in the one of the most highly. i mean that contract was done before before the change not after that wasn't a contract signed but under the new prime minister and without public pressure he would have kept you know not you totally disagree and they know what i'm telling you there was

a lot of internal pressure and the board through the minister if you want a better reputation for malta a lot of people are going to have to tell the truth about the corruption in the murder and we've been pretty far from that aren't we especially given the continue attacks we're seeing on free journalism in malta but what you've actually taught journalists what worked with you a lot of know what that something needed a watchdog reporters without borders spoke last october of a hostile environment for independent. you're showing you don't leave us alone with . journalists in malta and the prevalence of lawsuits to silence public interest reporting they don't know what they're talking about you know nowhere in the sense that i'm not saying that they don't know what they're talking but again you might find that this is contradictory but it's true we have liberalized freedom of the press and laws attributed the press in the last 7 years we have decriminalized libel cases we are referring to

a number of cases but to show to give the impression that that is rampant and that journalism in malta is in is in jeopardy or a risk is not fair malta is your need for low if you are twaddle or what our journalists strike and it's very robust and very strong criticism of what goes on more to it says is unique among a you countries for having extensive political control of the news media the 2 main political parties own their own t.v. and radio stations as well as both the daily and weekly print media and online portals and the international center for press and media freedoms at the worst risk for malta was a lack of political independence in the media haywood again defend the reality of a mike ross here where you either have certain excuse not just because you smith is trying to explain because whole how can you have a small newspaper which is viable a mortar it's a there you either have a political party doing it or you have the state doing good business organizations

don't find viable to have a media so on asli it is a big challenge to try and understand how to have the media system in malta which is part of the checks and balances in a democratic society but i repeat that is coming out of the reality of our microstate and that's not only water that has this perhaps the most unpleasant aspect of your party has been its attempts to dehumanize stuff and occur on the glitzier not just while she was alive but after her murder. an undercover investigation into secret restricted labor party hate groups online published by the digital paper the shift showed labor party supporters celebrating her killing within hours of the crime being committed the journalist was described in the facebook post as an evil witch who should burn in hell are you proud of this part of your definitely not and that it still be an acceptable and they made it very clear that it was thought to lyrics have been and totally unacceptable and i hope

and and i'm at least happy that in the last month even the national monument where there is a memorial to her has not been disturbed at all and they really hope that nearer the sun it is a little more it that they want to tell it is a great deal more moral not to celebrate them saying that that pleased that this happened and they really hope that very nearby there would be a monument to her for what they were that she did the part that she did above to investigate who investigate them corruption these facebook groups were actually administered by and home to senior government and labor party officials at one point the prime minister himself former prime minister was part of it but does that tell you about your beloved global pirtle that part i don't like and it's part of the local political culture which is not nice of the local political culture to celebrate her assassination calling her relatives a family of animals and completely unacceptable but there are fortunately it's part

of the terminology sometimes the local political culture which if something was used that is the labor party supporters as well you don't have the all the way to deal to get in your reputation with all this behind you don't you the room you as i said you have to change change is painful but it will be more for you painful if we don't change every spatola thanks very much for being in for a cup of so thank you. an

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