ringback i think there has been a lot of. listeners and attention when it comes to feel depressed we don't actually very well you rank 120 of us out of 180 countries some of glorious record is a list of things that a lot of ignorance i'm not talking this chief well or something has to be that you're covering up damaging evidence presented it doesn't look here's a clue and has been taken care of despite promises to respect the rule of law nigeria's government stands accused by the international community of serious human

rights abuses my guest this week here in london is live mohammed the country's information minister how does he defend against the country's many critics when the evidence of wrongdoing is so compelling. like mohammed welcomes conflicts thank you for the human rights record of your administration has been widely condemned by the un western countries your own lawyers international human rights bodies for brutality and the stunning lack of accountability why do you say this go on and nigeria why didn't you get a grip on this i think there's been a lot of. misrepresentation. by all these groups absolutely really working concert well or you know they're working constant or they're working

you know a little but i know for a fact that dissension in particular as being very sensitive to the issue of human rights most sometimes terrorists politicians actively. are confused with human rights so you put it all down to confusion i would do that because i do not know as a fact and i've been minister for almost 5 years that this any policy of my mistress. that is deliberately targeted at infringing on anybody's rights missed the last september the un special rapporteur on extrajudicial summary

or arbitrary executions agnus kalama she launched a damning report on nigeria i'm sorry and the human rights abuses of your security forces she said that she spoke of countrywide patterns of abuses include the police military's excessive use of lethal lethal force in violation of the political international standards i'm sure you read the report and she's not a person who makes these accusations lightly indeed i did but i would up the much more impressed even example was. i given now you must not forget that then you has been locked in a war of attrition with the book for almost a decade and the kind of. war we are fighting is a war amongst people. and. even then the military has been very

careful to ensure that as much as possible writes i know about it now i've also read about the reports of people who claim that there isn't balloted simply because they have been arrested by any of the security agencies and they've been asked to go through due process but i know their support to see this government does nobody tell him what is right if it's not a matter of policy why have there been so few investigations the un investigator spoke about the absence of meaning effective investigations the absence of meaningful prosecution all of which are compounded she said by the lack of transparency over the vast majority of security issues that accusation about lack of transparency and effective communication strategy goes straight to your door minister doesn't it you are the minister of information serious criticism here

but what i do know is the fact that. several keys of abuse of you know rights really against soldiers have not only be investigated but people have been punished and have been made public how many how many people i don't know of had but i knew the minister of information was of course i can't know everything but i knew for i know that the military or so is very jealous of his reputation and the set up made me say you know. i also and i think it offers up i've been dismissed or imprisoned. the international criminal court isn't isn't impressed by a record that says in 20000 there was a reasonable basis to believe that the nigerian security forces committed the war

crimes of murder torture cruel treatment outrages upon personal dignity and intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population but you have failed to cooperate with the investigators and failed to provide information that they requested and if you take these things seriously and you cannot but take the word of the international criminal court seriously you would have provided that information why didn't you how do you know what information they are asking for a lawyer provided by another would be operating with every aegis history they want to come through they say they want they were getting help from you they were getting the in from the say nor the the i.c.c. . met with the authorities in a career and we would have no choice but to cooperate they've been waiting for years to get your cooperation and it hasn't come minister maybe you are out of the loop here what maybe you don't have information about what's going on in your own

government and very. informed or go so my government and our self at least i do take the trouble to ask and. i'm not sure that is a good i'm not aware that we have we done our cooperation from the i.c.c. the un special rapporteur speaks of countless allegations of excessive use of force by your police in particular officers of the special anti robbery squad or sars you said you wanted specific examples there's a specific examples they've been accused of widespread torture in some cases leading to deaths in custody and extra judicial killings through unit is clearly out of control isn't it because the un human rights committee warned your government to ensure that this group operates in accordance with international standards because they don't trust that it's doing that at the moment why would that be i guess that i think i'm aware of that and at

a point in time when the support came out the sas was disbanded and or little billy constituted and you know weren't there as forth they must. sure that they operated within the confines of the law your own national human rights commission investigated their activities and even held public hearings but the results were never published were. not aware of them are not aware that i was on what are published and i took my assumption has to be that you're covering up damaging evidence doesn't it with your friends i don't think so we had a couple of brain damage in the b.s.m. some police men were dismissed their targets science was disbanded and reorganized there after. minister on the question of providing information to outside investigators you failed to provide information to the

u.n. under the international covenant on civil and political rights which nigeria has signed last august the treaty body accused you of failing to honor your reporting obligations under article 40 of the covenant and ignoring numerous reminders to do so why is that when you told me all cooperating so openly with these bodies why would they say that what the housing true i would in no no i do say that but i know that we have never shown any internationalization we are very open as to the facts those who are not hersh's the movie as much as possible for any country who is in a with an internal you know who is president and you know it is so jesse a very open and we we operate with international you know

regulations and laws well clearly you don't go into the bodies that monitor these situations well it depends a for it it depends on from which perspective they're getting the information where they're getting it from different perspectives on them we're talking about human rights organizations international human rights organizations we're talking about the u.n. we're talking about. all kinds of bodies the international criminal court they're all saying the same thing that you're not cooperating and you sit here in front in front of me minister says about simply not true it's like saying it's starkness outside when we can see it's very like no no no i think that knowledge is not correct i ignore the daily we receive we entity and we engage all these bodies. as a government and you're not going to move from that version despite the evidence that i have quite a level of i am yet to see any every any evidence that them. that is

so very unlike a white as a cause really that has not responded to it when you talked of a suspect side method that yes it will be pursued report and we took action mr we're all not stonewalling on requests for information you're taking radio stations of the air and having reporters arrested or beaten june last year you tried shutting down nigeria's oldest private t.v. channel as well as radio stations owned by a member of the opposition p.d.p. rayment dock pacey a federal court overturned your suspension but the nigerian guild of editors called this a barbaric crackdown on free speech why are you launching a barbaric crackdown on free speech i think is a lot of ignorance and a lot of this jeev get it just don't know what they're talking about of read the press is station was closed down because he ordered the national red little not because of the news it was pushing out and in january last year soldiers raided

the offices of one of your leading papers the daily trust and arrested reporters in march or journalists have been held for 2 years was rearrested you rank 100 and 20th out of $180.00 countries in the press freedom in the acts of reporters without borders it's not a glorious record is it minister well as i think when it comes to the level of the press. we're doing extremely very well and if papers wrong fall of the law they must be the consequences but when you have back to the 100 newspapers in the country and i cited the example one is a battle squadron with here i think should be fair to us that we have a very robust free press amnesty international says that between january and september last year at least 19 journalists and media practitioners were attacked

those attacks including verbal and physical assault and indiscriminate arrest and detention by your security forces in the impression ministers therefore that your ain seems to be to stifle freedom of expression especially critical voices you don't like criticism that's the correct is it because i think many of these people don't live on that don't know the eco system of the media in injury virtually every major you know print media is owned by individuals and i can tell you that this they had a list of about 12 national newspapers and trust their literacy i thought i don't remember what the story was but you cannot take the example of one newspaper among about 20 to say that the country is stifling the media on the contrary at a point in time i felt that was the government was actually at the receiving end of the media what has also worried people enormously his decision to submit

a bill which in its original form would have seen anyone convicted of so-called hate speech actually sentenced to death by hanging on the particular circumstances you actually wanted and you sort authorization from parliament to kill people because of something they said why would you do a thing like that extraordinary and shocking provision at a what is the right. shock is the ignorance of people there's what is cause oppression of power in order in a democracy is this but you can't be talking about is it built of pretend not by designating a body legislations by the listed of arm of government so how can you accuse the. you submitted you submitted this we did not as is also the sort of ignore us we did not this is a private member's bill but is senator we just the you have this and

you telling me you didn't want it to go through is that we do have a choice in which bills to go through or not the bill has been discussed this public airing what is it the government does not commit to when the bill has been passed and you didn't use any influence together. absolutely none if this bill had gone through minister journalist could have been jailed for any article didn't threatening abusive or insulting and could have been hung if their work caused any loss of life what you didn't object to this bill that you ignored as if. they were the what is called the tree of subpoena power. the only thing you can do as president is refuse your absent such a lot the last club in past love what was not our data but executive the law is still going through the senate so how the how did i just miss the president started with i've been accused of not dictatorship and muslim the you telling me you

wouldn't have signed the law with that provision in it i think this you can tell me that you have been speculative you can't tell me why when we when we get when we get that bridge right across it would look at what are the contents of that law in what form will it be passed but you see people rushed in order to history to judge to judge when you can't if we don't have one you said we submitted that that's bill we did not we know nothing other than wanted submitted. we don't micromanage the parliament we what about the protection from internet for sword and manipulations bill also carrying draconian provisions on the journalists could be in prison and who for publishing content all the author of that bill are you against this bill will not i'm not even aware of that bill you're not i'm the protection from internet falso the manipulations bill you're not even aware of nowhere bit so i

cannot because it is causing it's causing an outcry internationally and you're the minister of information and i have nothing about as nor thought bill before the house there is a bill that authoritatively that it is really that is not such a bill before the house reporters without borders these bills talking about the prohibition of hate speech bill and the protection from internet falso the manipulations bill and they said these bills contain extremely harsh penalties that violate international law and are likely to be used to gag the media and you are saying you know nothing about the doctors saying with they were wrong in saying that the submitted the hate speech bill. mr let's talk about corruption because in your country seems to begin with the government doesn't it the international center for investigative reporting said last year that among 9 countries in sub-saharan africa nigeria has the worst managed sovereign wealth fund

based on accountability transparency and oversight why is your record so bad the absolutely false. absolutely false report by the national resource institute's africa office based on data from 2017 said you have failed to regularly disclose publicly the financial interests of government officials in the extractive sector or the identities of beneficial owners of extractive companies despite making public commitments to do so the subsidy forces the force to do or the 1st obligation as a minister or a public official is way too little it probably declare asian of oil assets. and any minister or public official who does not do so risks being prosecuted and we know many who are not been politically as a result of that too is to the credit of this administration that only a few months ago we passed you know we put in the in place a policy that compels every ministry every department to make public any

expenditure above 10000 pounds saw that the public can challenge what is being spent for is also good of a spirit as the sion that nor government has ever succeeded in securing the condition of high profile politicians and tradition as paid those of them would belong to william party we continue to fight corruption because and you for and you follow the rules do absolutely so in 2018 why in towards the close of president will his 1st wives of the auditor general himself raise serious concerns about the so-called excess crude account that you have this is an oil savings account which holds dollar reserves from crude oil that are sold above the assumed benchmark price and in july that year the auditor general warned you to bring your handling of this account into line with the more why if you tell me you follow the rules did

he feel the need to say this is precisely because he said it shows how to correct their decision is the editor there and is an appointee of just how shocking he thinks your behavior actually is no us nor on the contrary relays shows the level of transparency in demonstration that an appointee of god plenty can say this yet retain his job he noted that the actions from the account which appeared to have been made illegally in other words deductions that apparently violated constitutional provisions why would that be and why would he say that if you're following the rules. as you tell me you are everywhere in the world to live in the most well known democracies you have what it is generous you have what would it a generous yes yes and their duty is to monitor the excesses of government now the father has allowed to do the job and the searing mince in office i think is

testament to the fact that we're really britain's bread you know and station the effect if this is one congratulations for that or even further i want to for as good as russell get from you as i was supposed to know not just as i'm from the auditor general who says you're not in line with the law but with that you don't think that matters outside you destroy the. to the correctness or not of that you know and the fact that he can make that allegation submit it is built into understeering middle daughter and i think it's that will happen in the end station that does not believe interest me says the audit team could find no legal authority for even the existence of this excess crude account so it's a sham and a slush fund isn't it why don't why don't you admit it admit that yeah there's no legal basis for this for this account but i don't think it's correct to say that

this normally would be what because the. cult have known about it even before it came to government. it said the audit team could find no legal authority for even the existence of this excess crude account how come you didn't or persistent warnings from the auditor general as he said year after year not just your government but the previous one going back to 2007 to bring this in line with the law again you tell me you follow the rules but it's not backed up by the auditor general we follow the rules and like even that allegation even that arthur is correct the all idea of degenerate is to point out to you what do i do wrong unfortunately to write i don't see any goban deewar that is all we always follow the law were always do everything correctly what asiri get the fund that that original recommend report and nothing is happening is thin off is yes and what you

continue to make illegal deductions from the account what it depends what you may get a little legal doctrine deductions that violated constitutional provisions it's not easy if if a god member list concessional provision it is the little duty of parliament to take appropriate action but i don't believe that we do sponsibility the government if it cares about the people's money to mend its ways and oh of course and will but that's if you have believe that you have evil bolleter the law did the laws but what are some sins and yes they are today out of our funds and my normal is the all our sins of a degenerate anywhere in the ward that will be just ambulances and ali as does what will put it out here is that there are some regularities and then the appropriate you know i am of governmental who did it for so what are you going to do in future about this i'm sure it has been if he what are you going to do if those ideas are true and she has been taken care of but hasn't been in these been reporting and

complaining about the government's attitude to the sick since 2007 well just as the un has been complaining that you haven't been giving information about top. and excesses of violence used by your security forces as the international criminal court has been complaining all these complaints are piling up minister what are you going to do in the future when we stonewall we look at every calm place we look at our tent there and we take action like i've told you there have been several yes many military officers are been jailed some have been dismissed and it's now interests global witness says despite a 50 year all boom which transformed nigeria's economy into the largest in africa 80 percent of your people live on less than $2.00 a day they say that an estimated $400000000000.00 has gone missing from state coffers are you going to tell the people of nigeria where that money has gone.

on and our watch between 201521000 nobody can supply suffered in such allegations and i can only speak for when i became minister and i can say that between 2015 and 20 nobody can talk about all the money missing. my mama thanks very much for being accomplished so thank you very much.

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