my to my city's day for centuries the company of my country. until the day i mean if. not the time to. dance april and. i think there's been a lot of. misrepresentation when it comes to the double depressed we do an extremely very well you rank 100 and 20th out of a 180 countries some of glorious record is that the list of things that a lot of think you know resume a lot of this chief the assumption has to be that you're covering up damaging evidence doesn't it if those ideas are true interest been taken care of despite promises to respect the rule of law nigeria's government stands accused by the international community of serious human rights abuses my guest this week here in

london is live mohammed the country's information minister how does he defend against the country's many critics when the evidence of wrongdoing is so compelling . like mohammed welcome to comfort zone thank you for the human rights record of your administration has been widely condemned by the un western countries your own lawyers international human rights bodies for brutality and the stunning lack of accountability why do you say this go on in the june why didn't you get a grip on this i think there's been a lot of. misrepresentation. by all these groups absolutely really working concert well or you know they're working constant and they're

working you know a lot but i know for a fact that's essential in particular as being very sensitive to the issue of human rights most sometimes. terrorists politicians attributes i confused with human rights so you put it all down to confusion i would do that because i do not know as a fact and i've been minister for almost 5 years that this any policy of my mistress she. deliberately targeted at infringing on anybody's rights missed the last september the un special rapporteur on extrajudicial summary

or arbitrary executions agnus kalama she launched a damning report on nigeria i'm sorry and the human rights abuses of your security forces she said she spoke of countrywide patterns of abuses include the police military's excessive use of lethal lethal force in violation of the political international standards i'm sure you read the report page is not a person who makes these accusations lightly or indeed i did but i would have been much more impressed if an example was. i given now you must not forget that then you're as beloved in a war of attrition with a book for almost a decade. and the pain of. war we are fighting is a war amongst people. and. even then the military has been very

careful to ensure that as much as possible writes i know about it it now also read about the reports of people who claim that they're awesome balloted simply because they have been arrested by any of the security agencies and they've been asked to go through or due process but i support to see this government does nobody today but is right if it's not a matter of policy why have there been so few investigations the un investigator spoke about the absence of meaning effective investigations the absence of meaningful prosecution all of which are compounded she said by the lack of transparency over the vast majority of security issues that accusation about lack of transparency and effective communication strategy goes straight to your door mr doesn't it you are the minister of information serious criticism here but

what i do know is a fact that. several keys of abuse of you know rights early against soldiers of not only be investigated but people have been polished and have been made public how many how many people i don't know of had but i knew the minister of information was of course i can't know everything but i knew for i know that the military or so is very jealous of his reputation and they have set up many. piles and african offers of i've been dismissed or imprisoned. the international criminal court isn't isn't impressed by a record that says in 2018 there was a reasonable basis to believe that the nigerian security forces committed the war crimes of murder torture cruel treatment outrages upon personal dignity and

intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population but you have failed to cooperate with the investigators and failed to provide information that they requested and if you take these things seriously and you come up but take the word of the international criminal court seriously you would have provided that information why didn't you how would you know what information they are asking for a lawyer provided by another would incorporate in with a brief aegis history when it comes to they said they weren't they weren't getting help from you they weren't getting in from the they nor the the i.c.c. . met with the authorities they create and we would have no choice but to cooperate they've been waiting for years to get your cooperation and it hasn't come minister maybe you're out of the loop here what maybe you don't have information about what's going on in your own government and very. informed

or go so my government and ourselves i did i do take the trouble to ask and. i'm not sure that is a good i'm not aware that we have we don't know cooperation from the i.c.c. the un special rapporteur speaks of countless allegations of excessive use of force by your police in particular officers of the special anti robbery squad or saw as you said you wanted specific examples there's a specific examples they've been accused of widespread torture in some cases leading to deaths in custody and extra judicial killings through unit is clearly out of control isn't it because the un human rights committee warned your government to ensure that this group operates in accordance with international standards because they don't trust that it's doing that at the moment why would that be i just think i'm aware of that and at

a point in time when the support came out the sas was disbanded and only little constituted and you know one thing that as forth they must. be sure that they operated within the confines of the law your own national human rights commission investigated their activities and even held public hearings but the results were never published were. not aware that the of them are not aware that i was on what are published and i took my assumption has to be that you're covering up damaging evidence doesn't it with your friend i don't think we have a couple of brain damage in a few days some policemen were dismissed their science was disbanded and reorganized there after. minister on the question of providing information to outside investigators you failed to provide information to the

u.n. under the international covenant on civil and political rights which nigeria has signed last august the treaty body accused you of failing to honor your reporting obligations under article 40 of the covenant and ignoring numerous reminders to do so why is that when you told me your cooperating so openly with these bodies why would they say that what the housing true i want to know why did you say that but i know that we have never shown any internationalization we are very open as to the facts don't support whatever she wasn't as possible for any country who is in a with an internal you know the internet. is so jesse a very open and we we operate with international you know regulations and laws well clearly you don't go into the bodies that monitor these

situations well it depends upon it it depends on from which perspective they're getting the information where they're getting it from different perspectives and then we're talking about human rights organizations international human rights organizations we're talking about the u.n. we're talking about. all kinds of bodies the international criminal court they're all saying the same thing that you're not cooperating and you sit here still in front in front of me minister says about simply not true it's like saying it's starkness outside when we can see it's very like no no i think that knowledge is not correct i ignore that de de witt receive entity and we engage all of these bodies. as a government and you're not going to move from that version despite the evidence that i have quite a level of i am yet to see anybody any evidence that them. that is

so very unlike a white and official in that ad not responded to it when he talked about sus yes i admitted that yes it will be pursued report and we took action mr whether or not stonewalling on requests for information or taking radio stations of the air 'd and having reporters arrested or beaten june last year you tried shutting down nigeria's oldest private t.v. channel as well as radio stations owned by a member of the opposition p.d.p. rayment dock pacey a federal court overturned your suspension but the nigerian guild of editors called this a barbaric crackdown on free speech why are you launching a barbaric crackdown on free speech i think is a lot of ignorance and a lot of this jeev get it just don't know what i'm talking about of really good the press is station was closed down because he ordered the national red little not because of the news it was pushing out and in january last year soldiers raided

the offices of one of your leading papers the daily trust of the rested reporters in march are journalists have been held for 2 years was rearrested you rank 100 and 20th out of 180 countries in the press freedom in the acts of reporters without borders it's not a glorious record is it the mr well as i think when it comes to the level of the press. we're doing extremely very well and if papers run foul of the law the must be the consequences but when you have back today 100 newspapers in a country and a 2nd example one has to be about our squadron with here i think should be fair to us that we have a very robust free press amnesty international says that between january and september last year at least 19 journalists and media practitioners were attacked

those attacks including verbal and physical assault and indiscriminate arrest and detention by your security forces in the impression ministers therefore that your aims seems to be to stifle freedom of expression especially critical voices you don't like criticism that's the correct you see because i think many of these people don't live on that don't know the eco system of the media injuria virtually every major you know print media is owned by individuals and i can tell you that this they had a list of about 12 national newspapers and trust dilip trust i don't i don't remember what the story was but you cannot take the example of one newspaper among about 20 to say that the country is stifling the media and the contrary at a point in time i felt that was the government it was actually at the receiving end of the media what has also worried people enormously his decision to submit

a bill which in its original form would have seen anyone convicted of so-called hate speech actually sentenced to death by hanging on the particular circumstances you actually wanted and you sort authorization from parliament to kill people because of something they said why would you do a thing like that extraordinary and shocking provision i think what is it would. more shocking is the ignorance of people there's what does cause oppression of power in or in most major democracies this particular be talking about eastern bill submitted not by designating a body that is leisure but listed if i'm a government so how can you accuse the. you submitted you submitted this we did not serve as a source of the sort of ignorance we did not this this is a private member's bill by a senator with just the you have this and you're telling me you didn't want it to

go through is that we do have a choice in which bills go through or not the bill has been discussed this public airing what is it the government does not commit to when the bill a bill passed and you didn't use any influence to get the top sort out or absolutely none if this bill had gone through minister journalist could have been jailed for any article deemed threatening abusive or insulting and could have been hung if their work caused any loss of life what you didn't object to this bill that you ignored as if as to what what is called the tree of subpoena power. the only thing you can do as president is refuse your asset such a lot the last blood being passed the blood what would not or death or but desire to keep the law is still going through the cellar so how did that how did i just miss the president stop it would have been accused of no dictatorship and muslim

the you telling me you wouldn't have signed the law with that provision in it i think this you can tell me that caylee had been speculative you can't tell me why when we went we get when we get that bridge right across it would look at what are the contents of that law in what form will it be passed but you see people rushed in order to history to judge to judge when you can't if we don't have one you said we submitted that that's bill we did not we know nothing other than wanted submitted we don't micro-manage the parliament building what about the protection from internet for sword and manipulations bill also carrying draconian provisions on the journalists could be in prison for publishing content all the authors of that bill are you against this bill will not i'm not even aware of that bill you're not of the protection from internet falso the manipulations bill you're not even aware of nowhere bit so it cannot because it is causing it's

causing an outcry internationally and you are the minister of information and i love thing about as nor thought bill before the house there is a bill i can say that i diverted that it is really that is not such a bill before the house reporters without borders these bills talking about the prohibition of hate speech bill and the protection from internet falso the manipulations bill they said these bills contain extremely harsh penalties that violate international law and are likely to be used to gag the media and you are saying you know nothing about the doctors saying with they were wrong in saying that the submitted the hate speech bill. mr let's talk about corruption because in your country it seems to begin with the government doesn't it the international center for investigative reporting said last year that among 9 countries in sub-saharan africa nigeria has the worst managed sovereign wealth fund

based on accountability transparency and oversight why is your record so bad absolutely false. absolutely possible reported by the national resource institute's africa office based on data from 2017 said you had failed to regularly disclose publicly the financial interests of government officials in the extractive sector or the identities of beneficial owners of extractive companies despite making public commitments to do so this obviously forces the force to do what the 1st obligation as a minister a public official is free to make it probably declare ition of oil assets. and any minister or public official who does not do so risks being prosecuted and we know many who are not been prosecuted as a result of that too is to the credit of this administration that only if you months ago we passed you know we put him in place a policy that compels every ministry every department to make public any

expenditure above 10000 pounds saw that the public can challenge what is being spent for is also good of a position that no government has ever succeeded in securing the condition of high profile politicians like them strachan has paid those of them belong to the william party we continue to fight corruption because and you for and you follow the rules do absolutely so in 2018 why in towards the close of president bush his 1st why did the auditor general himself raise serious concerns about the so-called excess crude account that you have this is an oil savings account which holds dollar reserves from crude oil that are sold above the assumed benchmark price and in july that year the auditor general warned you to bring your handling of this account into line with the nor why if you told me to follow the rules did he feel

the need to say precisely because. he said it shows how to correct their decision is the editor there are is an appointee of just how shocking he thinks your behavior actually is no us nor on the contrary really shows the level of transparency in the instruction that an appointee of got plenty can't say this yet retain his job he noted that the actions from the account which appeared to have been made illegally in other words deductions that apparently violated constitutional provisions why would that be and why would he say that if you're following the rules as you tell me you are everywhere in the world to live in the most well known democracies you have what it will generous you have what would it a generous yes yes and their duty is to monitor the excesses of government not the part that is allowed to do the job and the sciri mince in office i think is

testament to the fact that we're really britain's bread in oh i am station the effect if this is one congratulations for that always be heard i am going for as good as or as good from you as as i was supposed to know not just as an from the auditor general who says you are not in line with the law but with that you don't think that matters are prejudice to the. to the correctness or not of that you know. the fact that he can make that allegation submit it has been looked into and is to remember that there are i think it's that will happen in it and station that does not believe interest me says the audit team could find no legal authority for even the existence of this excess crude account so it's a sham and a slush fund isn't it but i don't buy don't you admit it. and with that yeah there's no legal basis for this for this account and you know i don't think it's

correct to say that this normally would be as well because the. cult i've known about it even before it came to government. it said the audit team could find no legal authority for even the existence of this excess crude account how come you didn't or persistent warnings from the auditor general as he said year after year not just your government but the previous one going back to 2007 to bring this in line with the law again you tell me you follow the rules but it's not backed up by the auditor general we followed the rules and like even that allegation even that arthur is correct the all idea of an auditor general is to point out to you what you do wrong unfortunately to write i don't see any government in the war that is in all we always follow the law will do everything correctly but as he gave the fund that that original recommend the report and nothing else happen to him is still in office yes and what you continue to make illegal deductions from the

account what a deposit what you made a good look at the illegal doctrine deductions that violated constitutional provisions it's not easy if if a god member list concessional provision it is the little ditty of parliament to take appropriate action but i don't believe that we can sponsibility the government if it cares about the people's money to mend its ways and oh of course and will but that's if you had believe that you have even belittled the law did the laws but what i'm saying is that yes they are today out of alfonse i'm normal is the all essence of what the generac anywhere in the ward that it would be just ambulances and ali as does what will put it out here is that the asshole regularities and then the appropriate you know i am of governmental who did it for so what are you going to do in future about this i'm sure it has been and if he what are you going to do if those allegations are true and has been taken care of but hasn't been in these been reporting and complaining about the government's attitude to this since 2007

well just as the un has been complaining that you haven't been giving information about 2. and excesses of violence used by your security forces as the international criminal court has been complaining all these complaints are piling up minister what are you going to do in the future when we don't walk we look at a brick on places we look at our into the air and we take action like i've told you that me and several. many manager of us are been jailed some have been dismissed and it's now interests global witness says despite a 50 year all boom which transformed nigeria's economy into the largest in africa 80 percent of your people live on less than $2.00 a day they say that an estimated $400000000000.00 has gone missing from state coffers are you going to tell the people of nigeria where their money has gone.

and our watch between 20152980 nobody can suffered any such allegations and i can only speak for well again minister and i can see that between 25th and today nobody can talk about all the money missing. my mama thanks very much for being so thank you very much.

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