country in the corona virus pandemic more than 29400 people have died in death came quickly it took the u.k. less time than italy to reach today's number the message from the u.k. government tonight don't rush to judge and don't rush to make comparisons either tonight statistics and saving lives or is it statistics and saving face off in berlin this is the day. i don't think we'll get a real verdict on how we'll come to the until the pandemic is over there are different ways of counting deaths as we know we've had that debate in this country so in the short that the international comparison works on the show. if you if you want you. to all countries are measuring in the same way and it also depends on how good frankly countries are gathering that statistics but i don't think you can make

the international comparisons you'll suggest that at this stage i think you can make them reliably. also coming up tonight how to survive the pandemic without a treatment or vaccine for many americans the weapon of choice is not plenty of testing it's lots of guns with the uncertainty of what's going on on the pandemic they could be it could happen such as riots people going crazy you know. there's also also always racism in golf so having a gun will help with that self and also my family. and to our viewers on p.b.s. in the united states and all around the world welcome we begin the day with the u.s. and the u.k. and the tragic ties that bind politicians in washington in london often speak of a special relationship between the 2 countries. is a common culture and history

a shared language or denying to that relationship is one of shared sorrow as of today america and britain lead the world in the number of lives lost to the new coronavirus the u.k. has surpassed italy to claim the title of europe's deadliest country in this pandemic on both sides of the atlantic high were talladega has been reached in similar ways the governments of the u.k. and u.s. are accused of doing too little too late their leaders downplayed the outbreaks severity leaving medics unprotected and ill equipped at what is now the frontline in the most lethal pandemic in a century doctors say they should be doing more testing if only they had enough testing kits our 1st report takes us tonight to the u.k. during the government's donnelly coronavirus briefing britain's new deftones one official most difficult. and what he see is that deaths in the u.k.

is still continuing time and is. higher than we would wish i think it's all i can say internationally while the prime minister's deputy was eager to point out that figures couldn't be compared at this stage there are different ways of counting deaths as we know we've had that debate in this country we now published data include all deaths in all settings and not all countries do that so i'm not sure that the international comparison works unless you can you're reliably know that all countries are measuring in the same way the government's latest hoping the find against the coronavirus now lies here on the isle of wight the island of england's southern coast is the testing ground for a new contact tracing app that could be rolled out across the country the n.h.s. kovac 19 outlets you know quickly if you've come into contact with someone who has symptoms but is it too little too late even the government's chief scientific

adviser has now admitted failings. and maybe you don't think yeah we could have done differently there i think if we'd managed to ramp testing capacity quicker it would have been beneficial and. you know for all sorts of reasons that didn't happen so critics have long said that britain's conservative government responded too slowly to the spread of the virus and failed to contain the outbreak by widely testing tracing and isolating people and although restrictions have meant that the spread of the virus has slowed britain will likely end up being the european country hardest hit by the pandemic well i'm happy to welcome back to the day dr john campbell he is in defended health analysed and has a healthy following on social media where he offers insights into the pandemic you joins me tonight from carlisle in the u.k.

dr campbell it's good to see you again let me start by getting your reaction to today's death toll in the u.k. . well of course is a very sad milestone isn't it i mean to be fair we have been expecting this for some time that the trajectory has been up for. about 12 days now that the u.k. has been higher than most of the european deaths and as well the u.s. the lockdown in the u.k. some will be high and not of italy and spain and france for example so it was inevitable it was it inevitable it was going to carry on rising for a period of time of course it's still very sad to reach to reach these milestones the u.k. foreign minister said today and i'm quoting him here he said there are different ways of counting debts we now published data that includes all deaths in all settings and not all countries do that of course he was referring to italy there is he speaking the language of science in statistics or more the parlance of parlor

politicians what do you think. one of the sad reflections about this in europe is it's been a bit of a competition we're doing better than you or you're doing better than those oh we're not as bad as that guy over there which is a bit of a pity because the human beings at the end of this but having said that the testing strategy not the testing strategy that's been bad in the u.k. but the recording strategy in the u.k. is very good the office for national statistics discount this very meticulously and this data reason really quite accurate for deaths registered up till the 24th of april now is dominic rogers right there are different ways of accounting for deaths in different countries and it's difficult to know what include what to include say for example in the u.k. at the moment we are including deaths and home nursing homes deaths in hospitals on suspected now suspected deaths main 19 or coronaviruses actually mentioned

on the death certificate but even when you take that into account the overall amount of deaths is much higher for this particular week than it would be normally even if you account for the coverage 19 deaths this is still in excess of deaths so it actually looks like the real number of deaths attributable to conflict 19 is somewhat higher than the official figure would suggest at the moment unfortunately fortunately you know you mentioned comparisons here in europe we began this program talking about the parallels of the u.k. and the united states in this pandemic from where you are looking across the pond looking at your own backyard how do you explain the country's leading the world when we talk about mortality in this. i think there are 2 different mo donative action here really the response in the united states has been really quite disparate different states have kind of gone the way and i think it was only when

they had the wake up call from washington state in seattle and from the high numbers of cases in new york that the united states really became aware of the scale of what was going on and even then the response was somewhat disparate and quite often people weren't cooperating with it in the u.k. in the u.s. soil with the lock down whereas in the u.k. the cooperation with the lockdown has been basically good but we did start somewhat like the testing has been very poor in the u.k. and is still off to is still not really going well at the moment we're still not we have tests we had a lot of cases to begin with because of international connectivity with london as well and then there was this idea that the government had in the beginning where they were going to go for herd immunity but this idea would contain and then move on to the delay stage where i think it took their eye off the ball really inward looking for the individual cases anymore those sorts of issues the virus was there when actually you've got to chase every single case we have to test we have to

trace and treat and isolate every single case to get on top of this pandemic i want to ask you about a story that just came across this evening professor neil ferguson of imperial college he is a leading u.k. modeler he has resigned from the is scientific advisory group for emergencies after admitting that he made an error in judgment violated social distancing by allowing a woman to visit him twice during the lock down as a medical professional dr campbell how important is it that people such as professor ferguson practice what they preach. of course it's absolutely imperative and we saw this with the senior medical adviser in scotland as well that we can never say do as i say don't do as i do we must always say do as i do follow in my footsteps now neil ferguson to be fair hadn't had convict 99 had tested

positive for it so his thinking was that he was in you but of course that's a rationalization these rules are for everyone because we don't know apart from anything anything else just how immune people are ones that had the disease so he clearly broke the rules and he's unfortunately had to pay the price for that and it's a great pity because neil ferguson is perhaps one of the leading well certainly one of the leading epidemiological mathematically mathematical models in the world so even though is not officially part of the sage group writing on the scientific group says i certainly hope the government's going to be drawing on his expertise and certainly his department is is paid in and played an invaluable one in the go in the u.k. response to that to this pandemic so i hope he hasn't gone away altogether but certainly a major indiscretion yeah we we've had people from his department on the show talking about the models as you say very very important when you look at everything that's happened dr campbell bringing us to where we are right now do you see the

u.k. learning from these initial mistakes i mean is there a positive view that can be found moving forward. i think very much so because understanding the deaths is a very important statistic because that helps us to understand how many cases there were a few weeks ago because what happens with this virus is of course someone becomes exposed to the virus then they have a period of incubation perhaps 6 or 7 days then they have day one when they have their 1st symptoms then they have a symptomatic period and then very often the deterioration takes place in the 2nd week and death might not hurt all the 3rd or 4th week after that so we've got this long line in this long delay and the big hope in the u.k. at the moment is the total number of deaths happen gone down now it's concerning that the number of deaths in nursing homes has continued to rise but the number of deaths in the community the number of deaths in hospitals has gone down and 90 case that the rate of infection has been falling now for some weeks so that is promising

and just does show that the lockdown strategy for which we're now in the 7th week is being effective in that we need to carry on with it but we so desperately need this individual testing tracking tracing isolating strategy to go in tandem with that because that's our only way out of the law down until we get the reputed in until we get a vaccine. in the future we can spend more time talking about those lives saved instead of those lives. at a certain certainly there are. always it's good to get your insights appreciate your time tonight thank you. not. germany's car industry executives were in berlin today german chancellor angela merkel to throw them a lifeline they didn't get exactly what they wanted. and b.m.w. are calling on the government for help unprecedented plant closures and plummeting

demand measures being looked at include a subsidy for car purchases but environmentalist they are against state support for what they call the gas guzzling industry and the round of talks we understand is planned for june. all right from my colleague. exactly kind of like their state subsidy. you know we know how important the car industry is to germany and its economy i mean i can't imagine the german government not bailing them out in some fashion. i can't imagine the german government allowing the german car industry to go under absolutely correct brant but we mustn't forget that the car industry already receives aid in the form of the already existing massive coronas stimulus package that the german government has presented only last month 750000000000 euros and the car industry is not

going into handed also with those short our allowances so when production line stands still they don't have to pay the price certainly not the whole amount of it they don't have the exact people the government just so they're not going into a $100.00 and there's another point that this what they're asking for is basically a repetition of what we saw during the 2008 financial crisis with this cash for clunkers scheme very nice scheme many countries did that. but did it really do any good in the long term and we now know in hindsight it didn't really help the car industry that much because people went out to buy cheaper models so the margins were tiny and as soon as the situation recovered to they stop buying cars it wasn't sustainable and as i mentioned earlier because they can the car industry now has access to cash in the form of loans. we just don't need to the same sort of age but you're absolutely right they wouldn't lead the industry go under you mention the

word sustainable help big of a role do environmental concerns play here. i would think quite a lot i mean fred to remember until corona hit the world we were talking about one thing and one thing only climate change the friday futures movement it was on on top of the agenda of germany taking on the e.u. presidency now in july they want to doors it was an electric car is something sadly the german car industry is not at the forefront and i think there is the white consensus you mention it no more money for gas guzzlers. the most pop. the car in germany and experts told us today is still the folks goal of the regular model there is an environmentally friendly one but it cost $6000.00 euros more and i who aren't that interested in buying it so i think in order to have some sort of incentive maybe you would have to guarantee that the car industry makes these kind

of cars somewhat more attractive yeah i mean you have to think about people's pocketbooks let's go from cars to planes for a moment the german theory with tons of i understand is losing a $1000000.00 and we're right now and once a barrel well france is going to give air france cayle them a bill well the standard is we've times are going to get one. even well here it is quite interesting because they hear the german government is actually keen to step in and to support tonnes of it left on somewhat hesitant because that kind of model that you mentioned in france it's a bit different here in germany france it is not that unusual that the french state has some sort of a say in business for example in exchange for the bailout and france is expected to stop domestic flights in favor of the french state railway s.n.c. . which is also good for my call because we remember that public transport was the key driver in those protests against his reform plans of maybe that will sort of

calm them down slightly and look times are only privatized in 1997 and its c.e.o. is really resents the idea of the government meddling in a fast let me just mention that what is in discussion right now and it could play out that way that the state takes not an active equity role in it add that to government representatives will sit on the other guy's report where they content too much harm maybe that could be the deal we see you will see planes trains and automobiles we've got you all through the night mark it's good to see here at the table thank you chips. a few days ago hundreds of people demonstrated in. in lansing michigan that's the capital of michigan they were there to protest against the governor's emergency powers to combat the spread of the coronavirus many of the people attending the rally they carried firearms some entered the capitol building as you see right there armed with guns and a message of defiance it's. well the sight of armed men protesting

against a lockdown it's reignited the debate in america over gun control in michigan and in other states where similar protests and taken place it is legal to openly carry a firearm even inside government buildings some americans are again arguing for a change in the interpretation of the constitutional right to bear arms others are turning to guns to more guns to arm themselves against fear. magazine loaded release and fire. mason has been shooting firearms since he was a child but since the code at 19 pandemic the son of vietnamese immigrants has been beefing up his skills. he says there's a general feeling of insecurity among americans. with the uncertainty of

what's going on on the pandemic there could be anything that could happen such as riots such as people going crazy you know. there's also also always racism in volved so having a gun will help protect itself and also my family. shooting ranges and gun shops in the state of virginia are considered essential business and were allowed to remain open during the shutdown. the clark brothers range has twice as many customers as usual owner steve clarke says gun sales at the decades old family business have never been so high. there's just some people who said i'm not sure how to deal with this if i have a firearm i can deal with this if somebody tries to take something of mine i can defend myself. hardly anyone here wears

a face mask social distancing doesn't seem to be important but some have come to reflect on what drives americans to guns these days the explanation is we americans in the country have gone berserk we think this coronaviruses the next apocalypse and it's just in people are scared for some. unknown reason i think that's a simple as that. what's fear for some is business for others there's a one hour wait time and extra paperwork to get into this gun shop in the city of arlington the store was completely sold out in the early stages of the shutdown shop owner sean poole and says he is still struggling to keep up with the clients appetite for firearms. we can't meet the demand. of the customers we don't have the. the variety they used to have also access to variety of

pistol shot rifles ammunition ammunition is also being treated similar as toilet paper people are by in excess and without any real even. mace and fun has not bought any new weapons since the virus hit for him training at the shooting range is a great excuse to leave the house while he's working from home. in america more than ever guns are an essential business. conditions in many prisons in the americas region the worrying preexisting structural problems such as chronic crediting conditions coupled with a lack of proper access to health care have unable to grasp the spectacle that 99 in many facilities across. the united nations says prisons across latin america are

a breeding ground for the coronavirus we have heard similar warnings here in europe germany has prevented al breaks in its prisons by releasing prisoners up to 1000 inmates have gone free my colleague and reporter as if has been speaking with prisoners however paint a very different picture of what is going on behind bars i mean what they've been telling essentially that the measures put in place to protect them by state governments in germany are not being implemented that staff are still coming in going sometimes not wearing face masks not keeping their distance from prisoners getting very close to them also the prisoners themselves are not keeping socially distance that they're still eating lunch in groups i spoke to several prisoners at luton say here in berlin who said this they're very concerned i spoke to one prisoner 44 years old christiane if he is part of a high risk group so you has diabetes he has heart problems and high blood pressure

and he doesn't feel that the prison is protecting him and he fears for his life so let's take a listen to what he said. i wish to. the mood is relatively tense. many prisoners will anxious and insecure about the steps being taken. especially since we don't know what's coming and important information from authorities about where we should do is generally not available. when things will return to normal or rather a new normal no one knows. i talked to the spokesperson for the justice ministry here in berlin who contradicted what he said they said they're implementing all the measures possible to protect the prisoners and the prisoners inside prisons a prison are spreading rumors about the cause it makes you wonder who's checking on the people who are checking on the prisoners these prisoner thorns or do you think they're making a tradeoff between prisoners' rights and their safety whether in prisons

essentially are a tradeoff between rights and safety and i think what we're seeing globally is that a global pandemic makes this even more complicated so yeah the simple answer is yes . prisons all across germany have done things like ban family visits banned group activities like sports and church service so essentially prisoners are living in a kind of isolation that's usually used to punish bad behavior and this is taken a heavy toll on them psychologically i spoke to rio how brother she's a lawyer and expert in criminal rights and she said that the trade off is a hard one. isn't going to get some good you know what it's really really or the inmates now with the restrictions especially now that visit some time out what. about to be very clear no one wants to be the one who brings coronavirus into the prison because the if there is an outbreak and things would become much worse much

more disastrous. if your days are. now truly obviously something needs to be done to protect christmas and that will of course have drawbacks. advocates are also saying that the tradeoff is necessary but that prisoners could be urged prisoned rather could be urged to make a more difficult tradeoff and invest more money into better spaces and better health care for prisoners we'll see if that happens any time soon i mean as always thanks for your reporting thanks brant. well the day is almost done the conversation continues online you'll find us on twitter either due to the news you can follow be a bird got t.v. if use the hash tag the day i remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day we'll see that everybody.

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