in the light of climate change. africa. what's in store. for the future. to make a city to get inside. the church. this week on the 77 percent street debate. land not then the other way on the you know a number of any keeps telling my mom that it's something i never want to good through and i found a group of women and they disliked me even influenced me to. give you a bleeding may cause deaths so how do you enforce a law when they enforce those and not that. we do. ok and that i. and that. and i mean my boss

and. i would not. then i mean you couldn't buy. in the year 2011 kenya passed a law that basically said that female genital mutilation was illegal despite this it's still being practiced across the country and even here way we are in a rural county and you want to investigate why and i'd like to begin with so you know who's actually a member of this community and an activist this is still happening and i know that the school you're running is also facing this challenge can you talk to me about that we are from. originally so even even said that she doesn't want to go through their kids and how they're they're trapped there and they can't find themselves out even if they want to to get out of the situation. up or were you to look or to know

. who was channel kutta not to misc you want to talk on a while ambo how a tukey like you were coming. up are equal munity you know knock on my yoko kick it when you visit him and if you buy a new suit. when you need him. a month. what it is very young. the younger. me the modern way. camilla lange and i remember and i met. now you may only said that niggle anything get out while i'm alive i don't need as a book in there i would only get it there were none. were in the man has. more under way need i. my mathematical i have another comrade here that i wasn't a boy long now we are going in go and i know i'm out of my day here now with

a. mass i have on your i'll come back to you and now make it a little bit more personal i know for a fact that you had said to your mother the 2 didn't want to undergo this right and she forced you to can you talk to us about that. i think for me my mom of course she wanted me to grow up like a normal my site child girl child because my grandma was a cutter and i used to go to watch many girls being circumcised so it was such a traumatic experience for me and i kept telling my mom that it's something i never want to go through so she didn't think that my decision or my choice counted so she went ahead and decided for me the event planned as a surprise ceremony and upon coming home from visiting my uncle everything was said and i found a group of women and they dislike me in 1st me and. it's something that has been

kind of disturbing me for a long time and sometimes she would talk to read to get to have to look friends about it as a superhero story like a trap has she didn't know she didn't like it so i decided ok well i think it's time to part with my mom after 10 years of thinking about it i have proved her and told her i was like ok you have this society you made them have to go in. this dramatic ization mirrors reality and the trauma over an age old ritual more than 200000000 of women while white have been subjected to female genital mutilation it's a tradition that reinforces men's power in society girls are still being cut during initiation rituals in the forest without anaesthetic naturally the girls put up a fight so several women rest train them and push them to the ground it's not uncommon for the girls to end up with broken bones. and i'd like to introduce

durham because you are from us a bit which is a border town sometimes the girls choose to undergo this ritual how does that work . i'm going to tell you my story yes. for me i wasn't forced but i got into it due to be peer peer peer pressure how old were you i was 9 years old and i asked my grandmother that i should go through it i actually told her that i i begged her to go through it yes but what is the purpose of female genital mutilation in your community we've just heard from amala poso here that a woman is considered not whole unless she is mutilated essentially what's the reason they give you our community practices in gym to reduce sexual desires in a woman so even if a girl hasn't gone through f.d.m. in my community she is regarded as a prostitute or as a person who's lose yeah yes that's the main reason we practice in india ok i want

to go to study up because you're also a survivor of f. g.m. is this something that you also asked for in your community is there a lot of pressure in the village we know each other so we know who and who has gone through of g.m. so for me it was because of the oppression i went through with g.m. when i was 10 years old but because you are a very innocent child and people want you to be clean you go for it but afterwards you start regretting or nobody will is there to answer your questions yeah ok. so normally postle we've just heard from your daughter that you forced her to get if g.m. why did you do that. camilla and not the mother of a young. member of the mill wouldn't. let me hear you when i did. so you mean to tell me that if there was no law against if g.m. you would still practice it. among some i think i love one.

another then. but i don't know because our. local amongst and. so let me ask the many in this community we have some very good looking morons here though they come up one on me what you must say one is a koan one can buy i had to cut. mr. to cook 190. you're the closest government official to the people of this village and you have a lot to enforce but the people who are around you also your family members they might be the ones practicing it how how do the how do you enforce it in your own community 1st of all are you against it yeah i'm very much against it so what is the challenge of them forcing because we're hearing them up also here saying if it was not for the risk of being arrested i would still do it the talent we have

they not have now if it's legal practice so what they do they do it in secret which is a very serious thing because something done in secrecy. so we added then it is it is dangerous then the rest of their life and it is against the law ok so we'll come back to the to the enforcement a little bit later so just hold on to that thought i'd like to now speak to them say here because we're hearing that the mindset hasn't changed the law is in place but the mindset hasn't changed what do you think it would take to change my. opinion. why this thing has been practice is because people have been not have not been sensitized well and therefore for for us we have been since it urging the to be ball on harm caused by female genital mutilation

e g. t v a bleeding is that we may cause death injury of the over me. and the and many more the awful. the only thing to stop this is to create more awareness among the communities it is a deadly exercise which i'm opposed to. we're talking about a 100 full practice here one of the long term effects of f.j. and what have you had to contend with psychologically ok allow me to see that if jim is not something that in the day you have got something that follows you for a lifetime 2 hours after the cut you start shivering you start feeling fever your body temperatures rise so you can contract infections that those are the short times now when we come to the long time after you are no much you are even the mrs

coming out is challenge another thing is that when you are moderate again you go through a process called if you believe it's another to be open then when you are you want to give back and in our community we give but as long as we can so that means after everybody you have to be cut for you to pass the child yes you have 3 children did you have any complications related to f g m when you had to deliver yes when i was giving birth to my 1st daughter i was on labor pains for 3 days and what happened is that the traditional but attendance because i give birth at home while cutting me anyhow really so that only the. the child to come out but now again i thought it was over for the 2nd baby i was caught again for the 3rd in fact they went all spittle and i say i don't want to be cut any more i want to go to a safe place where can deliver well so i saw some caesars coming and i was like

what are these for that is i was even better fortunately this users were also better because i had to go through as easy and they leave very that's when he said it's over now the 3 daughters are enough for me i should talk to my community and tell them this should come to an end and for me i am fortunate those complications are talking at a minor compared to others who have now in blood living with a few still are adults now living with childless dram is this sounding familiar is this sounding like something you're also battling with psychologically and are you worried that physically your body might not be able to take a pregnancy. yes i wanted every single day because 1st of all the day you go through it you will never forget as survivors we never forget the day that you go through after all right we're also hearing from all these women who have undergone if g.m.

that it does cause complications that it's harmful so do you want another one of your daughters to go through that matter i am as. a matter of when i'm well i mean my boss and is with the guy and. then i mean good bye. dodie i want to ask you another question because you said that it is cultural you would not marry a woman unless she was cut to not so much. you are not near like you must say like you cannot realize in the numbers of a muscle a woman watching you might come up who are simba but don't know us in becoming i'm running. i'm not talking when i walk away and. it isn't you know matching him at all you could get good. at the your part of the mother not like i'm watching when billy matter to watch.

yeah not so clear where he is on that but we were talking about stigma of not going through the cut but there's also a 2nd layer of stigma once you're a survivor how does that work well as a survivor there are so many names that you are called 1st of all there is this notion that as a survive on because you're you know community sick your sexual desire as you do not have sexual desires so there are people who say that survive us do not have that that. they actually had which is not true it is not true we do have and that's why these are the reasons why survive us are not able to speak up because they are called names if i am told that as a survivor you can know to do this and this therefore i will have that fear of

speaking up yeah kaz cause is a sex educator and you might have seen on the 77 percent with the spread do we know enough about f g.m. as the people who are living in the cosmopolitan areas and if there's a disconnect why i think the way we're raised we're very disconnected from a lot of things that happen culturally in different parts of the country in different parts of the continent then the one thing that i'm hearing that is a common thread amongst all of these conversations is that the value of the woman is is there is no value to a woman from the minute that a girl is born into a family she is automatically. she's seen as a form of currency and it's just it's a material exchange because if she doesn't cut then it means that she can't be married that means the family can't make any money that also means that the family will be seen as outcasts within their community so a lot of these conversations just sound like very patriarchal conversations where the woman is not valued she's of thing so even with conversations around her health

and their set. things that she's not able to do she's not able to bear children. there are so many very many health issues around f g m a lot of people don't care the value of the woman is so low that even when you tell them that women are dying they don't care but do we care enough as the people who are privileged to a large degree do we care enough to create safe spaces so that when the survivors you know survive that we're listening to them yes but i feel like a safe space is never enough like what's the next move from there we need to be able to actually physically do something we need to be able to help certain communities i'm aware that in loiter there is the ritual of the female genital cutting also known as mutilation has been changed the ritual is changed so that the little girl where's the blue shield they should have the women dancing with her she's taken to the hut she's laid on the mat but instead of cutting have

a poor milk over her volga eliminates the harmful part of it ok n.g.o.s were mentioned catherine i have to come to you because you've been accused of and you know i've heard it said and read a couple of times that n.g.o.s a hijacking this conversation but you're not really listening to the people it's a 2 sided way because those who are working at the ground really they listen to the people they do sensitized the people they do help the people but help those who are decided that they will be who are doing nothing they don't come to the ground so it's a 2 sided with ok i want to go to sat there for just a little bit you know you come from a community where 9 out of 10 women have been cut what would happen if say somebody got cut today and they went to the police station how how how is the law meant to be to work the law is supposed to be there to help the gallows the victims this of all of us but unfortunately most of the time there are a lot of gaps in the law itself because once it was reported that means even the victims will be carted along as witnesses. and in most police

stations we don't have child protection sent us child protection units we don't have rescue centers in all the counties so that means these gallus who are already victims while i've already suffered we'll again safa another violence. like. maintaining them as witnesses so another issue with the law is that was the girl is caught she did she will automatically drop out of school and all that a lot of challenges how is the education sector now helping in the law enforcement are they reporting these dollars who are dropping out of school what about the administrative. the chiefs for instance we have a let's let's let's let's ask him actually because you brought him up chief here you are somebody comes to the police station and says i've just been forced to go through and we've read some instances where the police officers ask them for photos of the thing happening this is not realistic what makes me not report the time they

got there that being. there stigmatized with their yeah that is that is that it out he'll be. yeah because. most of the. press tent protection most of the. battle maybe i had to go to the trooper to the police station so but isn't that why we have so many layers of administration so that if the police if you as a chief is not able to come to this community should you be able to send people to survey. i sent people to suffer today to check no i mean if we're saying that the people being circumcised or you know going through f g m a 9 or 10 how will they know to come to reporting what we do and that probably helped us a lot we collaborate with the churches the village elders and the community

applied ok but to to to be fair chief we already know that that's not working it's not really working entirely so let's talk about arrests have there been any people arrested in iraq. yet i thought many even the kids even the chief ok we have achieved have been arrested for theft i'm placing his daughter and have been taken to court. it is an example to other community the when they feel they have been arrested you do so if you believe the they don't believe because they know the law . is not agreeing with you but i want to come to salina 1st because is this ringing true to you do you feel like you can trust the police officers to enforce the law 1st of all we don't have any police station in. yeah so i don't even know how it works with dealing with the police yet chief we're being told you don't even have a police station here so where would you even begin. in fact we have

a she say she's saying in most or in most recently in fact that is no so how do you enforce a law when they enforce those are not that we do try ok so speaking of stakeholders cause. what more can we do as women to work with the women who are still going through this how can we be more active stakeholders i feel like we really need to be able to understand the ways in which different communities are able to absorb information and then use that and take that and find ways to educate women if it means showing them some of the effects of f.d.m. with young girls and the continued effect alikes idea said throughout the lives of women and if they are so fixated around the idea of young girls getting married i feel like it would be if we could use that as a form of education to show them how it affects their marriages in a negative way how it affects childbearing in a negative way because children are such an asset and also just create spaces to

actually discuss the vagina the evolve to actually look at it to talk about women and their experiences be it sexual be it physical to discuss the actual organ itself what can we do better to stop f. g. and a lot of the things that i'm hearing is set or colored to say here and you know the police post is so far away and so on and so forth and there's there's so many problems around it but i'm really curious with what we have and with what is available what can we do to make actual changes and. more precise question is how do we begin to change the mindset of mama who is old and very set in her ways how do we begin to educate or to have conversations with her in a way that she can have a ha moment where she's like actually we need to stop that ok let's ask a question but here. you know we just ask the question what can we do better

because what we're doing so far doesn't seem to be working this thing is because of the culture and the very deep and rich culture and they believe india. therefore the only best way. yes i have seen to stop. is to have a collection fall in between the government and the chiefs the d.c. is the governors that come out and say no to end of quote education department must also come to think and make it stop i think if this collection. collective holes is done then how traumatic event really the thing is going to stop ok christopher has articulated the knock on effects of after very clearly education is something that you're very

keen on is this the way forward to stop after him do you think i think gus indication is one of the big the big solutions to ending if g.m. and child marriage and internet pregnancies because this aid f g m does not stand as an issue alone and this organisations that are fighting to end g.m. cannot end if g.m. as one entity alone they have to address girls' education because once girls and school they're built to learn about their bodies we have a center in mostly row and it's more of a rescue center now and a boarding school because girls are fleeing into that institution escaping child marriage and g.m. so creating such safe spaces and gusset new kitchen will be a huge. thing that can solve this issue of g.m. alright saudia what is your proposal moving forward how do we finally get rid of this ok for me i would decide just like we need to have county and

community based approaches like a specific county and community based approaches because what works for my community does not work for the most a community. for my community maybe engaging the religious leaders in a walk for the must i mean the alternative right rite of passage might what we need love breasts are all based companies we need to leave the conference rooms and go to the community where we have so i was affected and another thought the thing i would suggest is that the content of the message we tell the community really matters a lot because these people are have values attached so how do we do linkage how do we do link if jim from the legion how do we dealing if g.m. from culture the government also has a big role to play now that in kenya our president committed to end of june by to to to what are the political leadership doing about it these are people who also

need to speak up a very male politician single politicians to begin with you're talking about changes right from the top all the way to the bottom so finally what do you think can be done and what can we do huge platform for survivors so very best do not have a chance to even speak out there stigmatized a lot and i would love to see our world we are survivors are considered there listen to also our level in the village set up there are things that there are forums that are all my that would go to forums in most of our communities discussing these issues at a time when you cannot just speak about after them just like that so having such forums giving women space to speak would be something that will really help ok i know that there are couple of people who want to say a few more things but unfortunately this is where we have to call it

a wrap they've been fantastic solutions which have been suggested i really hope the people who can implement them are listening and speaking to you chief thank you for watching.

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