the abandoned. the water. stopped it's happening faster than anticipated. necessary or supposed to prevent flooding but they only delay the inevitable. how will we live in the future. 66 meters rising sea levels starts to sit on. the list those will say what makes people panic when they work with me is that i might say to an activist play jesus or i might tell

a child they have to play perfectly or tell an actor that i'm not going to give him any lines or tell him what he should do so. in the end he might turn out to be the dramatic advisor and not on stage at all times you know. this man never takes a break. let's cut his throat on the 3 song rock god. is one of europe's most successful and controversial directors he has a clear mission he wants to make the world a better place with his art. always gives his all in theater film and political activism what drives him easy.

the city of ghent in belgium is small and yet incredibly lively a remarkable cultural scene has developed here in the shadow of the belgian capital brussels we met me you know how at and t. get to the theater where he is now artistic director. 50 or swiss and known to be a restless spirit what brought you to get. it this could no longer go back a long way not only get it done a lot of co-productions in brussels over the past 1015 years there are many minorities here though if you can't compare it with a german city at all there's another audience there's more access to a cosmopolitan society and at the same time it's a tradition of mixing john resig theatre here the show all of us mixed to us many artists have been combining dance performance film and theatre from the start. but

when i arrived and said i needed a lamb and 2 dogs and a jihad is that they all said ok we'll get that for you. in germany and they would have said you're crazy you've got to work with our ensemble and that's a bunch of old white men. especially the most men don't know how the 1st piece is artistic director at mt kent pedo marched against famous altarpiece and the city's residents he didn't just put lambs on stage but amateur actors children migrant seniors he want to create cosmopolitan theatre but he doesn't only want to direct place. but i really like it and i'm passionate pedantic about it them talking with them but then it can become boring and stressful to me more. than this one has so i'm glad when i can travel and do something that automatically makes sense if seen you know how i have spent a lot of time in africa in hate radio. he examined the $994.00 genocide in rwanda

specifically the role of the radio r t l m which broadcast racist propaganda during the massacres. up to 1000000 people are estimated to have been killed most of them tutsis most of the killers were hutus. survivors of the genocide played the radio hosts in the production was there through. the. money and. continues to work on projects in and about africa. should look to for lunch from the u.k. when i worked in that region by chance 1st in rwanda and then i went to eastern congo and saw that all the problems the crises and the genocide had been exported because so many people had fled to eastern congo and there was instability in the state collapse. not that. many companies exploited the fact that it

was a failed state. they saw i think it just right someone and mine is going to hold hard and there are huge deposits there and the war is still ongoing on. the creek at the . very end of. them and. so i thought let's set up a tribunal to examine the situation with the set up an international court of people so we got judges from that made where there's an international criminal court and from congo mixing different legal systems and we took 3 cases involving companies so that we could create a space to make such trials possible. if it's really you know. is even less about. reduce us here because this is a really that i like your logic. the symbolic tribunal and the

film were a way of encouraging democracy in congo. and as we've done. when we toured through the mining towns to show the film 2 years later this is people said that what was happening was terrible but they said they would stop voting if there wasn't any change and there would be a revolution and that's what we saw in east germany when everyone said that's enough this is enough so it's been time to you want your theater to have an impact on reality and that happened in congo as a result of the tribunals didn't it. the consequence was this i mean the impact was that 2 ministers were fired from the provinces we had worked in the mining minister in the interior minister. but i buckets i could see it was obvious that they were completely incompetent and corrupt and even criminals. my

hope is always that the political class and the business elite should have to justify themselves in front of an institution that's the ultimate goal. because this is this this is this this and. he does one project a year in a crisis zone with his theater in 2019 he went with some actors to mosul and iraq to stage a modern day oresteia the trilogy of ancient greek tragedies by escalus. business those who focus on numbness there is no theater there we found a kind of fine art academy 1st but 1st the city was conquered by the americans and then by al-qaeda and then occupied by us of the ho as the capital of the i s calif it all art forms were banned and artists were executed if they didn't renounce their art i couldn't slow europe the poor so whites in the complaint that. it was not an easy project the iraqis had very little theatre experience and they were not allowed to go abroad as had originally been planned so how filmed them in iraq and

projected the scenes onto the stage during the performances in belgium there's. a star like. this over. and age and greek tragedy about murder and revenge within a royal family transposed to contemporary iraq ringback. it's a country which knows all about murder and revenge once again me though how explored how victims and perpetrators can continue to live together. what can be done about the fighters of the so-called islamic states prevent. for retribution.

the and. i'm glad he asked the iraqi actors what they thought should be done. and i think. those are the men you just go off and believe you know. i don't think. that's. the month it's going to stick around don. lemon you said there are many might be what you know coming out of the meeting. come on the camera time and time. when asked again they answer differently. it's been another fake expected they'd all vote for forgiveness but they all abstain. they said it's and we couldn't even kill a chicken because so how could we vote to put someone to death and yet if we forgive

them we've abolished justice and that's why my hope still lies with the institutions and if it's a justice can exist so people say i can't kill the guy but i don't want him to go free so i'll hand him over to a judiciary i trust you know but when there isn't any like in iraq and what do you do then when this nice does to me of course most of them. blame me in the lower house staging the character orestes is gay a taboo subject in a predominantly muslim country like iraq. this kiss between 2 men caused an uproar at the performance in mosul. actor johan lace and was there does he think all went too far. he likes to push things a bit further than other people and i think that's what theatre should do and that's what we what we should do make people think make people think about lives and about

our life together and that's what he does so he's maybe provocative and maybe goes a bit too fossum times but i think it's ok i think it's better than the opposite we don't go straight there where that's. the performers also push things to their limits and beyond what does a project like this do for localism. as you pick them do as we were leaving people said that was cool to go on this for the 1st time in 20 years a large group came here to do an art project and not to conquer the city with so arrestees i'm also it's a success story unesco watching the film. the secretary general said you must advise us they're going to think that shows how little contact the rest when they

ask us been there twice who they should support i'm of the up on. the streets and can it's hard to would if i was just named consultant director of the film and theater department of the revive the spirit of mosul programs on top of. i'm going to build a theater there and do an exchange with 3 border countries germany belgium and maybe france put it on a solid footing a fist a few millions are flowing into the feast that's what you want in this are you really a political activist in charge the activist. i mean it's interesting to me super time and again when i'm doing rehearsals like now i realize. that's really work to be on the ball when you're involved in activism you kind of just get carried along . by not to be when i think sure activism isn't for me if you're theater work isn't either fun as it's unfolding but it was really nice in italy. because i chewed a jesus scene in costume and then take part in some demonstration. it

was to look cool. cool yeah great you know lho shot his latest film the new gospel in my terre in southern italy jesus and most of the apostles are african immigrants and refugees some are christian others muslim call caste people living around the terra often in camps are makeshift settlements. 7 but this is not a historical film it's a sad story from our times calls jesus is a social revolutionary fighting for the disenfranchised. and. that's. the way. it.

has to go your religious. i mean atheist i don't believe in god and i never have not even as a child and not through these rooms and of course when you deal with it you're impressed by the power and the complexity of the bible. and then you understand why this book this faith still survives because there's something different about it. i mean the desire for basic humanity fundamental solidarity and dignity. as to take for example how absurd it is that jesus surrounds himself with the lowest members of society in a bid to seize power so that he could have set up better associations and he didn't train a fighter so like they didn't islam they trained fighters built an army on the cheap

power ok to. use this but jesus also preaches complete nonviolence so he's also a crazy guy who goes around shouting acts ruthlessly can't take any criticism and in the end he's done in by his own people he could play them and then you might say it's because they can't take any more of him. and i found all of these points really impressive. punished with the wind and the fence act on the one hand and the film shows stations in jesus's life but on the other there is this revolt me tell this revolt of dignity because on real demonstrations by migrants is that what's the situation like for migrants there and what problems did you have recruiting people in these camps. you know. i travelled there and realised that this lovely little city which is doubled for jerusalem in many films is

ironically surrounded by refugee camps. they're full of people who are thanks to the dublin regulation are stuck there. they're exploited on the huge tomato and orange plantations until they die or i don't know disappeared one told me. so they have. or go away either good for their prisoners in italy or lightless illegal nameless just the kind of people jesus spoke up for. pretty useless because. the boundaries between reality and fiction blur. performers are fighting for better working and living conditions in real life they've all personally experienced exploitation as field hands who have no right. to live. now the revolting against the mafia and big companies who profit from their labor in. places where people no longer have to work for the mafia but on their own

plantations for example you can. try to remind people that a legal basis exists that it's a scandal these laws are enforced and tried to help them and force it like it says in the bible i didn't come to destroy the law but to fulfill it is to fully. migrants from the camps around my chair i have come for the big rally they're preparing for the revolt. initiated by the actors jesus and his disciples. that. the. local people also demonstrate solidarity with their demands for a right of residence and an end to the exploitation this protest will also become part of the new gospel. to boost your ass theatre director and

a university lecturer and you're bringing out a book series that are always doing 234 things at once are you a workaholic. yeah yeah yeah i was always that way. i've always liked to work a lot because it's my way of coming into contact with people if i just worked like crazy and i don't know maybe produced 500 machine parts and not just 50 then i'd be a workaholic and i wouldn't really find that acceptable. interaction here stare into. this incidentally i earn astonishingly little for the show if i count the hours i've worked and still work every day that it's not worth it at all. the new. type incurred a mountain of debt is through all of my projects which were always completely underfunded and always caused tax chaos that went to liverpool and you name it.

could leave with that you can be honest i found it companies which then collapsed somehow. all that just so i can work a lot it's pretty contradictory this oleson with me to shoot a hole but this is. also a father is there any time left for your family. for you to be unique to be in far too little i have a screensaver of my daughter's and often when i look at it i think that the most important thing. this be fixed as a horse i feel that the most important demand from them but i do miss a lot of the same times i'm working in ghent and i live in cologne which are pretty close. so i try to be home for 2 or 3 days each week that's why i often do rehearsals and conduct meetings in cologne. because of my family people always have to come to cologne to meet me and i try to spend as much time there as possible. with flaxen though maybe they're glad not to have

such a go getter of a father around all week. yeah. i think that's true with my family just like with my coworkers here who also don't see me all the time was a positive side to it. when you're really glad to see one another really communicating there's not such a torturous routine to it. routine has to be the last thing most people would associate with me though he's positively brimming with energy and extraordinary ideas. that bulis networker he's always curious and not afraid of getting involved in things but he's also someone who knows no boundaries someone who's constantly challenging himself. and those who work with him. actress was seen a lot he has collaborated with on several successful productions currently they're

preparing a new piece about disenfranchised people in brazil. and. i think that i have been in contact about this project for over a year. and the direction frequently changes radically for the since i've grown used to it and now i think it's wonderful brings disorder into order also into the order of the theater business and that's his great strength though it's stressful too but mainly it's the strength. in compassion the history of the machine gun was you know lardy plays an ngo worker who finds herself confronted with her own limits and prejudices.

here. so. i think that's lovely that you keep on tackling highly charged topics but also shun the usual theatrical effects or bigger motions and outbursts on stage your performers act more like witnesses so do you make it hard on the viewer. that was in my theatre but then i'm not german people don't go around screaming mice and then but then they don't in most countries luckily it's only that way in german regional theater. that's always put me off the wire these people shouting at me how can i get close to them when they're busy showing me they've taken an elocution course. the numbers are pretty major and another thing that's always interested me is listening to someone who. listening to a story produces something in me and this is one of the quieter effects of theater city into us and the things that. we can affect with just.

this is the way stage 5 easy pieces a play about belgian child molester and murderer mark to took most of the roles including that of to true action by the children to emphasize the power relationship between adults and children. and you have always asked myself why isn't this power relationship visible on stage and when this case arose i thought i must use the article methods to show what it really is. kidnapped the children but basically he told them stories to control them and to get them to do things that they really didn't want to do but did all the same. and in my playing we see an adult director getting children to cry and undress and do things they actually don't want to do suddenly and this is the

really uncomfortable part of the you understand how that really works when you have to go. see you know. 5. or. 5 easy pieces proved very controversial it was praised by international critics yet performances were banned in some places . is handling such dark material too much to expect of children will they be traumatized by the experience. what does it do to them to portray a child murderer or to play the role of the victim. for the desperate parents. let's get to those this too you don't consider that animals and children are always

authentic. i mean simply rehearsed with the children until they played all of these roles completely professionally employing different methods and all the while observing how the audience broke into tears and even in this place i would i think about the only people who were traumatized at all were the children i found that cool somehow it is because there's kind of a liberation in the portrayal of not being free it's often that way in theater. and then the my basically you overcome trauma by going through it what are you working on now. i mean editing my jesus film the new gospel and doing a play called family. we can from unity be in it i ask a family to recount the story of another family who killed themselves for reasons that remain completely unknown to this day and at the same time to understand why things like this happen. so you're dissecting evil. yes i

always have. but. we're going. to. go to. the ban on this.

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