but all of them come straight from the heart the explorer c.e.o. you put it towards no more dealers in the marsh who. come. from you to move to their farm the resting place the russians d.w. documentary. the we believe that we. should probably even fear that if you are ready to go to the highest levels of government why not just investigate. earth. we have both to take painful decisions to decide economy more than 2 years ago zimbabwe and its long time grueling exam party appeared to be turning a corner when amberson and non-god work took office and promised a break from nearly 4 decades of robert mugabe's brutal authoritarian rule and economic mismanagement but hopes for

a quick recovery have been dashed the country now faces the worst economic and humanitarian crisis in a decade and critics question the political will to stamp out rampant corruption and human rights abuses my guest this week is in bob ways minister of foreign affairs and international trade see both see you do more you as a former army chief he was also the face of the military coup that propelled him non-god what to power was involved way ever be able to see genuine political and economic reform. foreign ministers see both you so much oil welcome to conflict zone thank you. you were the face of the military overthrow of robert mugabe back in 2017 as a commander you got on television in your uniform to assure the public of

a stable transition back then you were the heroes of the hour now you have an economy close to collapse with fuel food electricity shortages where is the hope in zimbabwe right now. world thank you very much sarah yes the change in 2017 and the advent of the current government which is the 2nd dispensation was as a result of a lot of issues but among those was the issue of the economy and the disappeared the public took over an economy which had been in distress for many years for different reasons some of the decisions could be sanctions and then some of the reasons could be that of management but this me say that there was hope and there's still hope because we have got to take painful

decisions to the 5 the economy from where it was and these political decisions are the ones which appear as if they're making people lose hope but in reality they're. getting things right and i want to talk about you mentioned sanctions you mentioned management of the certainly issues that we're going to address but right now the i.m.f. is saying that you're in an economic and humanitarian crisis the worst economic crisis in more than a decade against that backdrop i'd like to talk about the priorities of your government right now because you have recently made headlines for splurging millions to purchase top of the range vehicles for nearly 50 ambassadors across the globe while the state is failing to pay civil servants a living wage how can you justify such a spending spree when millions are facing hunger. no the whole issue.

is is is is best on the fundamentals this economy has got very strong fundamentals if that strong of sentiment those done what was there before and only the issues which we are they forming at the moment in his eyes the economy is concerned is the. currency it has been the patterns which has caused inflation but as you are well with the auction system but mr foreign minister just to bring it back we see issues because ultimately you purchase these vehicles and just to give our viewers a bit of context they were between $40.00 and $50000.00 per via call when we're talking about the average civil servant this is the middle class in your economy they are making the equivalent of $1.80 a day and you're purchasing $40.00 to $50000.00 vehicles on you not out of tune

with the priorities and the needs of your population with that money have been better spent elsewhere not most sure said i would say it was talking about the variables which the one for the new orleans very limited we have had to ensure that our own diplomats. are more well. and that that was quite a serious issue when we took over because the conditions of our diplomats externally was really. quite ups because they were moving with was there were moving with. something which is not. appropriate for the deployment we've assigned for that mission and therefore by a very for the deployments was one of those measures which would turkey to address

the situation of our diplomats but finally you had made it doesn't look good it doesn't look good in an economy where we're 63 percent of the population live below the poverty line yeah but whatever the cost of those there was not necessarily the issue which is caused the economy to be way the quote on me has been like this we are changing we are forming again we are undertaking specific key decisions which are oriented to the economy and among them is the stubble as they should of this side of it but we're also doing a lot of the economy to forms which ensures that even the investment development community is free to come in within the hour months are. open for business let's talk a little bit more about that mantra and those reforms that you have been making in order to get the economy back on track because as you mentioned you promised that

the economy would be open for business i'd like to begin on the economic front with your currency reforms because a really big source of tension right now has been the reintroduction of your local currency. last year after a decade of official use of the u.s. dollar very quickly that local currency rapidly lost value with 10 prices rocketing raising fears of renewed hyper inflation but you have been quoted as saying the following that the return of the zimbabwean dollar is basically stabilizing the economy from what it was. is that really a message that's appropriate to send to the people of your country when the price of almost everything has ballooned a loaf of bread can essentially gobble up a few expansion up sell the scenario which is happening on the ground is that this economy had norm wanted out of policy. way of fixing it it only had to fiske of the fiscal side and therefore the 2 what

one systems of fixing the economy was the fiscal and the monetary policy had to be readjusted and that's why we head to introduce our own currency and our own currency is critical for our own people in terms of economy planning and in terms of expenditure yes we are facing challenges because of the changes we've had to place and the the did challenges have been that our currency was not stable and it therefore we had to have been turkey measures such measures which are to stubble as all but i mean this year with introduce the. oh excuse me foreign minister i just want to follow up with you and ask you because to address some of this criticism though and the way that you rolled out this currency because we have a condom

a saying that you rushed to reintroduce it without the backing of a foreign currency the i.m.f. cites missteps in foreign exchange and monetary reforms that have failed to restore confidence chatham house also saying that it is had limited results do you have any regrets not at all in fact. it is appropriate and it was an appropriate decision that we introduce to our currency so that the. site with foreign exchange operations and that has been the desire of this government so we are not necessarily trying to eliminate remember we have been in this period for some time before this. ended up when there was a shortage is when there were issues a lot of issues which would put outside the control independent of the.

of the month that it was what it is because of that it was important that we introduce our currency in our currency which is ok supposed to operate. with u.s. dollars just briefly foreign minister i'd like to ask you because you mentioned in the beginning of our conversation that one of one of the ills that is affecting your economy is sanctions we've actually had your president saying that their impact on our daily lives is a measurable that the consequences are dire but are they really because. or is your just your government just continuing to perpetuate a false narrative here as a convenient scapegoat the united states for example says they only have. 141 individuals or come for companies singled out in your country right now in a country of 16000000 not to do all sarah do all government of sanctions

to this country has caused the serious and unintended consequences of all is called it a weapon of mass destruction because this is the dead which exists now is. to study islam and to act on zimbabwe specifically that it shall not access in external support from either the i.m.f. world bank or other international financial institutions and the because of that its means that the risk of. a perceived risk of this country whenever these that hitting us but of assumption means it is higher it to deter is investors would lend to come into this country despite the fed that as a mole was open for business which has been propagated by president musser now

governor and therefore we believe that these sanctions are now irrelevant it is far as the situation is about with its content but there are causing untold sufferings not probably to the if you live but particularly to and that took must publish of the people and that's what is written by the european union in order the united states however i would just like to ask you because you're continuing that with this narrative and by blaming the west for your country's problems aren't you actually shooting yourself in the foot i mean you mentioned that you need foreign capital because the truth is you need very engaged in order to improve your economy which is saddled with billions of dollars in debt at the advent of the 7 the public . president obama clearly articulated us foreign policy objectives and that's was a reengagement engagement basically he will say we must be

a friend to everyone and that we must be and they need to know one and that zimbabwe was open for business and the whole objective of that process was to ensure that we are members of the family of nations who can and who can. allow even the companies particularly from the west to come in and invest in zimbabwe and the west is encouraging and that is developed up to drive to ensure that somebody is from the u.s. from the european union from all of these countries from germany should come into them so that they can be able to invest and take opportunities that have been to say that zimbabwe is probably presenting. the best events but the but you need to promote investment which emerges for the movers in the international community however now that is. that

investment for many international partners one of the precursors for that is the fact that many want you to tackle corruption in your country on july 11th president and he once again he declared war on corruption as he did in 2017 post his takeover speech and here in his inaugural speech after the 28000 election so i would like to ask you why should zimbabweans and the international community believe that these are more than just shallow phrases i mean they're phrases that have been around for a while these are not just phrases. the president do when he. particularly made his detriment on the undercoating day was clear and in terms of direction in which we're talking of corruption and a quarter of is something which we are at to mourn and not just. something which is

the radical and you're aware of that already. to covenant ministers have been trained. in the not irrational and of the body how is it not their radical mr foreign minister when you've had when you've had more than 2 years in office and several of us have been made that there have been no convictions to date no convictions to date and even the president acknowledges that there is a so-called catch and release system in place yes but remember we have what separation of powers between the legs of the deval selves and the judiciary and therefore when people have been arrested and will be charged and everything it is then that is the responsibility of the judiciary to handle the cases but clearly the prosecution side so that if they do this with the cases. they are being given the court dates and did they have been appearing in court of moment and do we

believe that we. should and the not theorising of the whole process is when many people believe in fact it is the 1st time that i have seen has been handled head on in this country ever before ok so let's look at a very high profile case a concrete case on corruption and that is the case of coulda tog theory he is the boss of such a holdings it is said to have purchased buses from a chinese company and then resold them to the government at twice the price it's costing your citizens a lot of money he apparently made a $54000000.00 profit here tell us is this an example of the type of business practice that needs to be investigated because there's talk that he got this contract without a proper process of for tournament. i think that is a misinformed position is far as we're concerned and if there's been any. kind of

complaint it should have been reported to to this mobile and the corruption commission but that is what has been reported to me and the ravishing to patients who don't are former youth leaders in fact reported it to your anti corruption commission the i.m.f. reportedly also privately warned zimbabwe that the state payouts of sequential were quote undermining trust in the economy you are pushing it to your program hiving fears of your highest levels of government why not just investigate. earth. because he's politically connected not at all in fact. talking about the issue of buses those buses. a way of bought from. what is the this of of and it was a deal of the bus company here in zimbabwe not even. out of china that it

but through the agent we had supplied buses before all into this country and with is there were wood said as to contract and these buses were bought when ordered and ordered and they delivered foot but our transport system is efficient more so under the covered snoddy so. there was like there won't be an investigation there everything's above them. so mr foreign minister then let me. just let me ask you about another case where everything does not appear to be above board we also have to mention this high profile case which is currently ongoing that your health minister who would fire this month for inappropriate conduct after he was accused of illegally awarding a multi-million dollar contract for covert $1000.00 medical supplies and just to give a reference point these masks were apparently costing the government $28.00 per mask there's been public uproar over this he's facing 15 years in prison if convicted

will your citizens see real consequences well that is exactly the testimony all for how the the corruption drive in this country is because he has been arrested and he has been charged and therefore it means. and what at least. no no no no it's not being caught and released remember this just in this country he's going to appear in court and of the of if it is going to be presented and then it would be up to the judiciary. to convict him or not but that's just not it is not the responsibility of of of this sort of. ok mr foreign minister i'd like to turn to another issue now and that is the issue of human rights particularly the issue of freedom of assembly has been criticized in your country the president has said that everyone in

zimbabwe has the right to express themselves freely to criticize to protest but i just like to bring in one example because these are the protests back in early 2019 security forces responded reportedly with lethal force killing at least 17 people raping at least 17 women shooting and injuring 81 people or arresting over 1000 suspected protesters during door to door raids that doesn't sound like an ideal condition for people to express themselves freely or does it to you. well let me assure you. and all the viewers that this government and the constitution of this country clearly article is old the rights rights all through the. freedom of expression freedom of religion and so on and besides that there's been

a lot of emphasis in terms of. embedding these rights among the people but there is no freedom in the constitution or in demonstrations all protest there is no freedom. of. bending people's cars and of the like that but it must be this which respects other people's right as well let's talk about other people's rights out of interfering and also just to acknowledge that the violence in this case was against the protesters they were the ones who experienced the fatalities but let's talk about the rights of others and turn to another case. a crackdown on dissent and this happened in may when 3 female opposition activists were on their way to participate in a peaceful protest organized by the opposition they were reportedly stopped at a police checkpoint in harare subsequently abducted by state agents tortured sexually assaulted a very high profile case in your country is this what opposition leaders can expect

in your country they've subsequently been arrested themselves they haven't even received an investigation into what happened to them. set out its must you must be very careful when you. are sessions because in the 1st place we were in the closet period and because of the cost eat you cannot have done with sessions of or symbol for about $50.00 people in town now if you breach but the law in that regard and you then cause a danger to the rest of the population in terms of the instructions it is you are fitting other people's rights to life which is not in up it which is not appropriate and the other 2nd issue is that you you believe at the moment that that agency is ducted those women but this is

a must which is under investigation and this if you are a minister it is i have truly been produced. have been produced by the minister of home of his which is clear that this could be leading to one of those issues which is take money to while a particular donation are already done event ok but you think united nations is calling for their release it's also not my assessment it's my assess the assessment of the un but i'd just like to ask you generally speaking because international n.g.o.s they describe a lack of political will when it comes to instituting reforms in your country i just like to quote human rights watch it says the following zimbabwe's failure to decisively deal with cases of abductions disappearances and torture severely undermines the standing of the country within the international community the country needs to end impunity if symbolic way is to be respected failure to do so undermines the country's reengagement efforts with the international community how

can you possibly convince the international community that's involved ways open for business when these assessments are so damning. appreciate that but you must understand exactly where these are being provocative from anywhere they are they coming from mainly the opposition in this country has got this strategy of attracting attention by stage managing events which we should apply to the international community. has eyes and content and in the reality when there's not been any of such an abduction the example is the mug one day the doctor and even the current ladies is something which is under investigation which i don't want it to continue or really delving in in it but i can assure you that we have made reforms and this is the reforms at add to the place you are aware that

the the west has been very concerned about the pasta and that pasta has been repealed the west has been concerned about a plan and that has been repealed and there is progress in reforms and we are saying that this is the reforms in the study being undertaken for the for the sake of. the international community or the western. capitals but they are also being done for the benefit of our own people so that they should benefit our own people and that this government the 2nd republic zimbabwean foreign minister genuinely pursuing zimbabwe in foreign minister says he's a lawyer we have to leave it there thank you for joining us on conflicts out. thank you.

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