they are guarding cars as passed in the parks. a legacy in black and white. collective memories starts of august 14th on d. w. . corona virus infection rates are on the roadways across the world on the global covered 19 death toll is now over 700000 in germany thousands including far right group ngs have protested against anti corona hygiene rules like masks and social distancing they believe that their freedom is under threat from government regulations meanwhile in germany and elsewhere fears of what will happen when whole they make his return home and children return to school so on to the points we also coronavirus 2nd wave scaremongering over real danger.

or thanks very much indeed for joining us here in the studio today my 3 guests include yulia fish a former doctor and now journalist and author she says we must make no compromises in implementing the lessons learned so far is not the 2nd wave will be very very painful she said. also with this is a rica how man business and finance journalist with the berlin based daily the target sites of all the tuts and orica believes that by the full the latest the latest corona will be back and she warns the economy will be hard hit on a very warm welcome to it's her biggest squatch professor of public health and deputy ology had been shot at a hospital he says we must do at. thing in our power to keep infection rates low

and protect the public sector. thank you all for being here once again i'd like to begin with utopias cotton until very recently there was a sense here in germany that we had the situation with the coronavirus pretty much under control it's fair to say so is it fair to ask what has gone wrong i'm not sure something went wrong. slides rice that we're seeing right now was expected because we open the borders we allow people to travel abroad people maybe behave something somewhat different than they would do at home they come back some of them are infected the schools opening public life is opening which is a good thing i think the issue that we see over the last days is the sudden rise in the numbers about. the numbers up yes not. a very low level still so there's an increase and if this is a really big wave that we that we seeing right now we have to wait and we have to everyone really take control on that infection rate wearing masks keeping their

distance so we can keep the public life open that's really important you know not think yeah i'm totally agree because i also think that it's not surprising that the numbers are coming up. says parts of it is due to the. parties that are happening in private places with fancy it's an answer strange isn't it for viewers outside germany or outside berlin specifically it will seem strange that we talk about corona parties here and yeah yeah the ones i was talking about right now are not corona parties i would say but it's people getting together and having gatherings or bigger gatherings than were allowed a few weeks ago and i mean i think it's normal that the numbers are gonna rise after having more parties or get togethers more gatherings like that but that we can still react and that we still have it under control we're not being. hits by

a wave yet it might develop to a wave but we're not there yet i'm going to. do she uses the german word of course she uses the word life. which means sort of complacency it appears to me and so many other observers to be dreadful can complacency your your you your response the notion that it's sort of all part of human nature it is part of human nature we've been in a time that was hard on us it's a burden for everybody having to live in this situation not knowing when it's going to end living a life that's not like the life we used to and that causes stress and that makes it hard for us to keep to the rules but still of course we have to stick to the rules and we have to keep going but it is part of human nature that we have what we want and that we get especially if we don't see the numbers rising and in summer we had a really calm time and that's what we the prevention paradox. if

you don't see the numbers rising in the virus being really really dangerous you might believe it's already over and of course that's not the case it's natural to think this but we have of course to tell the people it's not over yet we really have to keep taking the measures ok. 3 or 4 of these in germany have been broadly praised for the response to the crisis so far do you share in that well i think that. german authorities reacted in the right way but it's not true and that's something that the germans tend to think that it was only german germany that was successful in fighting the pend that make for example a country that is always overlooked and that was even more successful than germany is greece because greece stopped carnival for example very beginning various in germany we had big parties at carnival with the. so the greeks didn't half

stopped. up. you are clearly worried from your statement of the top of the show. be overstretched despite everything that we've just been hearing. about the health services about public life as a whole so. concert halls that we can keep this open so we just minutes to open them up again and the numbers were low and so we really have to make efforts to keep them open and we all can change the numbers by wearing masks but keeping the distance and eventually hopefully we have medication or

vaccination available. make a big difference but until we have to work together to prevent further lock down ok despite all that we've heard so far. talking about. that divide is the growing number of people joining protests against regulations and claiming that fundamental freedoms are at stake. the estimated crowd of 20000 people who demonstrated against compulsory masks and other coronavirus restrictions last weekend. among them were coronavirus deniers and right wing extremists and conspiracy theorists all united in their anger against the federal government their motto. of the pandemic day of freedom. they're just plain scare tactics i don't see any danger i don't know any people. basically going back to. away with these laws that have been imposed on us we have

the masks that make us. through. people who don't do research the way we do it they are kept stupid and believe what the government tells us and they buy into the fear that the government peddles to us and fear attacks the immune system freedom or safety is this the choice that defines the pandemic. that's the big question isn't it i mean we've all been following the debate here in berlin here in germany it was triggered by the demonstrations last weekend is it public health against freedom of the debate i don't think so or it's difficult to say i mean. i think great parts of germany and the people in germany understand that these measures are needed and that it's ok and that it's not really our freedom being taken away from us it's just a piece of cloth that we have to wear on the face but then there's also other

people who. can take the situation her being more stressed by it maybe and who are trying to find an answer to why this situation is so difficult to stand and that's why they're making up. other explanations because. people clearly do believe that democracy is in danger. then the others you've been exploiting who do see the other side of the argument. here in germany talk to the people in these protests and co video it's. pretty extreme stuff surely we need to have more sympathy or more understanding for people who. i think it's you have to differentiate between the people here have to see the ones that are claiming difficulties with the situation that are perfectly. right just like. people want to see their friends meet friends people want to work people. not

having their financial. they don't want to be destroyed financially and. all of these things are problems that we need to hear and we need to talk to the people and explain to them what is important but then of course there's the ones that it's difficult to talk to because they have complaints that are just not right . corona is a false alarm. it's not a false alarm corona is real is dangerous and you can measure corona clearly and if you say corona doesn't exist in a very dangerous situation the the protest the mix of different groups of already difficult to to understand and actually does there's a danger and when you have rights when groups have a certain agenda and trying to use this momentum and their people and if you should just who have real concerns about a situation who see that really we have low numbers so obviously not much is going

on as some was beautiful outside and not much is happening so why can't i so that's a normal reaction and in a democracy we should we should be able to discuss this and we should allow this voices to speak up and we should openly discuss their concerns to understand their concerns and jointly really target their pandemic because we can only do it jointly if one group things that way works and the other just idiots that is really dividing the population and we should not do that but it was interesting to know that there were practically no masks inside the burning demonstration. feels like a form of sort of russian roulette. i wouldn't be deadly extreme you certainly risk getting infected whether then you're actually getting sick is not a question and obviously you're risking that you infect other people and then they infect other people and so on so i think it. was not a smart move to not wear

a mask during a demonstration where you were really close together but obviously that was one of the reasoning to to not wear a mask i think we all have to understand that each of us can make a difference and if we wear this piece of cloth for a couple more months and maybe select its own airplanes for example or public transportation. has to since many many years people will mask in public transportation it's a normal situation there maybe that's a new normal for us and if you where it is for a couple of minutes a couple of hours i don't think that your freedom is in danger or do you do with people who do refuse to work to wear masks maybe men. the case i mean that's something that we also know that in our newspaper that we get letters by men who always. complain that they have to but they are not allowed to celebrate than 17th . so yes i think that you should just find them i think that it is important to

talk to people but i think it's also important to show that the state has authority because those who always complain about their freedom if you look at their personality usually it's people who somehow crave authority and they every react positively to authority they just want to see where the line is i mean it's exactly those people not all of them but many who are right wing parties so they want to have as we say in german. sorry terry in person so i think in a way it's good of the state on the government just shows. how the rules all your official what would your response be to people who simply refuse to wear masks i mean i came in to do the show today and i was sitting opposite our guy who was wearing a mask it's all or it was on his chest well you know what do you do. you address

people do you. that's difficult. i think i would decide in the moment if if i think the is open for debating and talking or like in the subway for example maybe i would just let them pass but i would always try as a science journalist to address the people interviewed me explain why masks are important that are the important measure that we have you think it's ok to find them they have to pay 150 euros i think that's fair i think it's i think it's fair in the subway and supermarkets when you know you can't keep the distance i think it's ok to do so in order to make the people have the people that. their actions have effect it's interesting i was talking to a friend of mine from from thailand who was sorry that in large parts of asia we're just saying that it's a it's a real affront to other people's well being and he actually used some he said it's

like you're a dancing in the corner it's that extreme but we sort of for some reason more or less accepted difference of mentality somehow and a difference of being used to things that are polite and that are normal to do in a society in it's way more polite and it's normal and we still need to get used to it i think we can but it still needs some time just about these protests before we move on to a different how typical is this something specifically german about the protests. i wouldn't think so. the last pandemics we had over the last century you always have this and you always have a smaller less obvious and you always have people who have to feel uneasy about a virus about a pandemic and the reaction how do governments react and so on so in germany we're used to go out and opinion and that's

a good thing and so to having this particular demonstration is also i would say a normal blood was expected and i'm sure it will happen again and so i think it's important to to keep up the discussion while obviously we also need to make sure that the minimal measures that we have to take wearing mask i don't think is about mask i think is about a system trying to tell you what you have to do and wearing a mask it's more or less easy sometimes getting uncomfortable after hours if you want glasses little bit difficult but i don't think it's about a mask and. was just 20000 people and we have 4000000 inhabitants so innovative as a very small minority and they came from all parts of germany. people. but they all gathered ok we will continue to monitor the situation around the world lockdowns have certainly had a devastating economic embargo many countries still struggling to recover including

in southern europe particularly spain. it is a clearance sale and although it has already drastically reduced its prices few customers come to buy anything or even able to buy anything. yesterday i made 102 euro's at most honestly i don't know how long we can survive with these prices . crespo has already had to close one of his 3 stores the spanish economy suffered an 18.5 percent slump in the 2nd quarter while the average across europe was a solid 12 percent. drop. now shopkeepers like chris both fear a renewed increase in the number of infections because another lockdown would be his ruin. can't europe's economy survive a 2nd coronavirus wave. it's a big question we're asking. the question. explain survive.

to survive if it's being helped by the other european countries because unfortunately in europe we have this divide between countries like let's say spain or portugal or grace and rich countries like germany for example germany it was no problem to survive carbone also fall because what the government did was just to print new money by taking out loans and there's no limit for the german government when it comes to. taking out loans but for those poor countries it's really difficult to get finance so what we need is that all of europe agrees on a package that has already been proposed. around 750000000000 euros. supposed to be voted foreign policy and then to go to the poor countries and it's really very important that this package of 750000000000 euros is. decided on and

perhaps the situation in spain can be alleviated what about the role of people like us ordinary citizens in germany and in the rest of europe what should we be doing i mean if you. should go out and buy as much as you can i mean it's you know from a. from a vantage point of environment it's of course horrible but. let me have to consume but in order to save the economy it's the best thing to do people need to go out and shop and. start at home and worry you know. that's basically it big questions about the future of our economy because people who are you know the the economy's slowing down that's the essential message here yes of course and it will take a long time for the economy to recover. while germany for example just at the decline of 10 percent in the 2nd quarter it was not as bad as spain that had

18 percent but nonetheless 10 percent is a lot and the whole of 2021 in order to somehow get back on track what about the global economy meanwhile i mean that sort of sort of it's all interconnected it's all some financial results are going down and especially you know it's hardly possible to somehow see what will be happening in the united states because they do not get the pandemic under control so probably they will have us hanging up down and that of course is very bad news for the whole of the world because the united states is one of the most important customers for example for the german economy it's really very difficult to see what will happen to be. a little list of the countries that are. struggling the most to me so many countries are struggling us sir. i japan morocco hong kong australia go on obviously you know what public health measures do they do does the global community have moving into the future now what new measures what new proposals it's very difficult to answer

is on the global scale so each region has to specific settings a specific health care system specific economy specific social psychological systems so it's it's really difficult to say what we all can do is certainly what we have to try to do is get the numbers under control and so important also for germany to to keep on going to. not advice but really tell other countries how it may work and w.h.o. obviously has has experts who can assist but often people don't listen and the initially a pandemic was not taken seriously so say the mouse just a little flu virus and so let him come and and obviously now to suffer the most is these countries other countries they have a different set up in terms of having no resources to actually do something so it's very difficult for them to actually react and do this if they are thought they

cannot afford it and people living conditions and working conditions. living condition and at home are very difficult and challenging and increase the likelihood of getting infected. it is a search a certain social gradient where you have sort of those on the low and the more likely to getting affected and those countries who are less resources are more likely to having a big issues and then you have countries like the united states and others with enormous resources but they just didn't want to react so it's a mix of both and we have to understand that. the globe is important also for the economy like even germany all as well we export a lot if the others don't buy them we also have a problem so we need to help other countries in europe and elsewhere to really get the numbers. infection under control just one quick word from you though in the last couple of days there's been a new tool that has been talked about as a contact diary for possibly moving forward into the winter months. just give us an

idea of what that's all about that sounds quite interesting pretty much right down with. the idea of a nap i'm not so convinced it is a great idea but it only works with a smartphone and it only works on the smartphones of the news generation so those who are tyrus of getting infected those who cannot afford it cannot use it so we have to find ways and maybe the diary works but. i can't see how it really helps to control the situation it will help specifically to say do you do you did you write down with whom you had a contact so you hope to public health officials to retrace other people. it will remain difficult. how do we learn to live with the crisis but these ongoing going to be with us for 6 months now as you mentioned earlier but it's not it's not going away how do we learn to live with it. we have to learn to live with it we have to get used to it we have to accept that it's

a stressful situation and that it's going to be hard for everyone but that if we all work together we can keep the injuries small we can try. to identify the class terrorists and to isolate customers so that we meaning groups of people that get infected and they're at risk of 1st spreading that is these so we have to really go to those classes and isolate those. that way we could keep the measures low for the rest of the public and that is a aim i think that we should all work for looking forward to using what we've learned to make a life that's ahead. more normal the my. there is something out there however cold response for t.v. . that is worrying i mean it's part of human nature.

because we're stressed and we can't take that for a long time and it's difficult but all we can do is keep telling the people that we have to work together and that we have to watch out for one another that it's not only it's not myself that i have to be worried about but all the other people i think we can only keep talking keep explaining also not judging on the people but talking to them and explaining. them one final word give me a very quick. what you expect we're going to. control it by identifying. and. very much for joining us here on to the point today.

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. clock. deep deep didn't they tell you ended in the end jazz. it isn't just out of 60 with the world without beethoven i can't even begin to imagine. what a total close to september 16th w. w's crime fighters are back again never goes most successful in radio drama series continues this season the stories focus on hate speech color of prevention and sustainable charcoal production. all of a sow's are available online. and of course you can share and discuss on his facebook page and other social media platforms. and fighters to know.

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player . this is news live from berlin and the number of coronavirus cases in india tops 2000000 but experts fear the true number could be much higher as infection spirals into densely packed megacities. here in germany health officials also sound the alarm over a spike in infections there are fears that returning the kids shooters could bring the virus back with them and.