interests always. begin with the biggest computer time i can't begin to imagine a world class horn player several years on a musical journey of discovery. without. starts to temper 68 mt w. . you know more you talk about a world who is being protected i'm asking you very simply who's protecting him on the. whole i keep on saying. i will keep on pushing for all the truth come out after the murder of the prominent multi-use journalist. all to itself has become a byword for violence and corruption my guest this week here in munich is the country's foreign minister everest bartolo he says he wants to improve malta has tarnished image but how many more secrets have to come out before that will be possible.

everest welcome to conflict so thank you you've made it clear that in the wake of the murder of duff nicaragua and all the corruption scandals that have followed that malta needs to rebuild its reputation that isn't going to happen until their body starts telling the truth is that i agree at the fact when i was appointed for and i 1st minister because they told me to go ahead and see what you can do i made that very clear not a beautician or a plastic surgery have there are a guillotine which have to be dealt with they have to be dealt with in malta contemptuous reality or not of the presentation of reality where we're getting to possibly what some of those 30 things are but i'm curious why former ministers like you supported a government that you knew was rotten to the core. well when things started coming

out of the time of the bottom up a person of last word to succeed i made it very clear that thought i'd accept the bill. but you say well i stayed on. i had the choice. i admire savonarola but they had my go a little more i had to i had the survivor strategy where i could fight another but did we use that experience to get there we got to do with of the party at the time and now he's in the democratic party to negotiate things to make the government more accountable but your collective silence over the years helped cement in power a government that became a byword for corruption with conflicts of interest multiplying in the prime minister's office and the rule of law seriously undermined and you went along with the by staying in the government. they have said recently that perhaps. it

would have been wiser to resign in 2016 as a pressure to change things i acknowledge that but i have spoken even of the over the last 4 years against what you have just said because the big question of a lot of those who get on to say look i don't think it was very very i don't think if you were to live in a small society like martha you know that there was the way i spoke and what i said was very very clear o.c. c.r.p. the highly respected organized crime and corruption reporting project i'm sure you know it they named joseph must get person of the year for 2019 an annual award that highlights an individual who has done most to advanced organized criminal activity and corruption in a given year it's a pretty shameful award to the man you worked for isn't it but i've made it clear to him even in print to $16.00 to $2.00 is going to be in his interest to take necessary steps against those people in government who are involved with the money

part of our papers and he didn't have to pay the huge price for it so how do you feel he deserves the award. i think i made it very clear to him that it was in his interest for a person to have contributed so much to working on the growth of the introduction of civil liberties in malta been to have his record painted with that weather doesn't excuse him for what he did later doesn't know just because the economy was booming you know of course murder and corruption were also new many of them to have made that also very clear that economic growth should and can have had the experience we should have occurred on the growth with rule of law and with clean government o.c. c.r.p. said that on the muskrats leadership criminality and corruption have flourished and in many cases gone unpunished creating an environment that led to the 27000 murder of tough knicker on the goalie if they knew that the same message was coming from other international watchdogs you had to know what was going on yourself delusion.

not completely and while i'm too and i'm not trying to get away from this. first of all one of the big problems that we have and again i'm not trying to explain it away is that in our small society. personal networks personal relations are stronger than institutionally once and at the expense of public these guns because unfortunately the rule of family or do law friends is stronger than the rule of law and this is an issue that we have to deal with and before come to a point now that we cannot delay taking all the necessary steps and no more. so that's an outrageous assertion there isn't it when the government said the personal relationships are worth more than the rule of law but if you were in government what's worth more than the rule of law yes but in small societies i'm saying and there again i'm not trying to excuse anything small island states like malta microstates which are not as the size of minnesota but one 3rd of its population.

it is true that when you look at the primary groups of friends and family and then the 2nd the groups or institutions should come in the 1st group and the 2nd group it's very poorest there's no bond there between one and the other all i'm saying is that in our society this it is a more formidable challenge to make sure that there is the rule of law that there are rules and there are regular joes who serve in government are expected to accept that challenge and run it is really all they are i agree one of the things you limited was that you didn't take a stronger stand in 2016 against the least one of those minister friends of the former prime minister conrad mitzi who'd been named in the panama papers your biggest political mistake you called it even so your behavior was inexplicable wasn't it you called publicly for mits his resignation but you refused to endorse the parliamentary vote of no confidence against him or because the way the motion

had been framed and then the amendments that were put to death made it possible for us to hold the government to my government to introduce measures to increase accountability there but in the end you helped to keep in office a man whose behavior in your own view had been shot the a new adequate my signature old my single vote would it have made a difference it had every was going to vote makes a difference on islam but now doesn't it not but not in that case where you where you have suppose you started another regular you didn't stand for your prince i agree with you but i tried to use that to negotiate measures to hold the government to account now when it happened when it was impossible. well some measure started coming in but then when this time when you started coming after november i made it very clear that i was going to resign and they said i had their day go or i go and they made enough pressure for them to go. but the fact is that your silence and

your continued support of the former prime minister made you and your colleagues complicit in this dysfunctional corrupt system i tried to use internal pressure to get things done this time in november talk to remain i want only m.e.p. called part of this swamp of corruption and financial. i try to do my bit better they haven't done enough but i am committed to do all i can to because this is a very important time for us it's a moment of truth i would call it we are at an existential crossroads since our independence 55 years ago we either get our house in order or we i think threaten our sovereignty and our livelihood the motor but there been so many warnings like that before have and then they were ignored in 2017 year and chief justice sylvia comey larry warned that instead of the rule of law malta was heading to what he called the rule of delinquents now that was enough to change anybody's mind then

wasn't warning in stark sharp terms like the. debate when when things start to become more clear for us because you might think that i'm trying to get away from what you're telling me but. it's only recently that things became so clear to us what was happening i know that even in 2016 they warned that there was a shadow government and the network of decision makers that were that were influential what was happened didn't name names did you might think it was clear who i was referring to believe it wasn't how it's all going to 63 they think it was their unit leave given that the same people were still in government and still are part of the establishment. i made internal pressure and i didn't manage to get them committed to concede that the whole system was in fact set up to to bypass independent scrutiny and prevent any kind of accountability wasn't it i mean the pit the prime minister's office for instance took over responsibility for areas

that presented particular opportunities for money laundering online gaming investment migration regulation of financial services it was clear that it was these areas were drowning in corruption and by the getting the prime minister involved directly in them was keeping the regulators at bay wasn't it but i'm not changing i'm not i don't agree that all these activities and all these different economic sectors are rotten and corrupt there are definitely parts which are and where one of the problems i think that we had. irrespective of the share of human nature with the zone of the that there is when you have such strong economic growth and the regulators are not given enough resources or intentionally. to a certain instances kills the intention to a certain extent yes but not all of them either but for example when it comes to

financial investigations those have been given a lot of resources i think the biggest problem that we have and the weakest weakest link in the chain is the economic crimes unit of the police and unless that is beefed up and really resourced to it well qualified people of integrity this problem will remain because ultimately we're going to be judged on how many people are prosecuted not what i'm telling you now or what we say in ground in ground that's really difficult when the judges and magistrates were appointed by the prime minister was that were the case in a system described by the council of europe's parliamentary assembly as incompatible with judicial independence and the rule of law but i think this is not fair in this case for a very simple reason it does government the appointment of magistrates and the judges have been more independent of the executive arm of government than ever before before the prime minister had talked to jurisdiction no it's not like that in the model there is a judicial appointment committee and we are intent definitely on taking the steps

that the venice commission has indicated to us used to do so for not on but we have started that i don't you see even in the last ali that differ in the last week even sorry even in the last month apart from the last week sets have been taken to start implementing those recommendations under dinu prime minister. in may 26th seen when you said things were fine. they plainly weren't worthy you said the government had already started in 2016 to introduce a culture of better political responsibility and transparency that wasn't true you know it all strong those are the measures that i told you about here but 3 years later the council of europe reported that major scandals were arising going unreported and uninvestigated for the 1st time we have we have introduced this is the contradiction of this government and of the muskoka are meant as were for the 1st time we introduced measures to hold government to account that had never been

introduced before now where they were clean they were they weren't working going off but why give them away given a free pass say a culture of better political responsibility and transparency has been introduced then we have the parliament papers the electorate gas the further hilman the further vittles global health care for the golden passport all all time and again featuring the same key figures close to the prime minister and the police and several instances mysteriously failing to act and none of that was serious enough for you to say you've crossed my red lines you've crossed the many many times i did see it entirely. and they would be the weakest link was and still remains even now and we have to act about the economic crimes of it because it's not enough to name people it's not enough to investigate them then you need to prosecute just about although you know much much more than you're telling them. more than you've ever

told you know names you know places you know where the bodies are buried don't you . have you taken a vow of silence no i haven't and if they are you afraid for you're alive one of them you seen what happens to people no tell the truth and will know that you know very little that if there is anyone who has not taken a vow of silence. because i have spoken i have spoken up time and take notice you don't surround the subject you make cryptic comments like justice can be served without fear or favor without burning this country to cinders and without burning or hurting those who want justice done what on earth does not mean it's not critical to the earth does it mean who is it addressed to was addressed to my government but then they pull enough pressure for their change to happen you also there are very face book the country cannot protect murderers money launderers and other criminals justice has to be done and there was no it wasn't

the country protecting these people was it it was your fellow politicians and the royal servants like you were either turning a blind eye or actively perverting the course of justice and pushing for that to happen it still has to happen and pushing for that to happen just about all who exactly was and is protecting murderers in malta who 1st of all when it comes to the assassination of the cabinet ality we have. a judicial process going gone now because the alleged killers have been brought to justice but you know more than this don't you you know more than this you mean i know more than this you know more you talk about murderers being protected i'm asking you very simply who's protecting them on malta who i keep on saying well i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out but you're not answering my question i'm asking you i cannot give you my not have no source and the bones of because of their names why

don't you know to the police if there are investigations i can assure you that i'm doing my duty in my own have you been to the police. i'm doing my duty that i got there was that means because you kept a 1000000 miles of it who was clearly more corrupt than he should have been hugely so i will i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out and they will stake my reputation on that how do we know that when you won't you know the judge you sit in front of the camera and you won't tell me what you will be judged you will be trashed by what happens but it's this is exactly this climate of silence and these networks of criminal corruption that created a permissive environment and allowed someone to believe they could get away with the killing of definite corona girly and silence free journalism they have and will but they haven't got away with it they have a lot of it is we have had political assassinations before and no one was brought to justice at least in this case we've started doing these things this isn't the

end of as story no it's not the end of the story and it cannot be the end of the story that all the true is uncovered and by the by admitting that it isn't the end of the story you know that the story goes further and you know that this network that arranged for her assassination hasn't come to light yet has it but the phone says we have to keep on pushing for all the truth to be uncovered. we only have your word that you do this and on with it will do it it will happen to have the commitment of the prime minister of israel and the minister for the interior who has started taking a courageous decision but this investigation was tainted from the start with and the truth is that no law some of the council of europe warn that a series of magistrate should have been taken off the case because of conflicts of interest likewise the investigating police officer force claims that sayed said were made by the minister of the interior but progress in the investigation if that's not an investigation tainted with all because it did give results and 11

important point in all this is that there are other services involved including the report so even if there are elements who want to cover up that information is available to the force beyond so that is a good guarantee that the whole truth will come out that nicaragua leads here didn't have much that was nice to say about you did she. understand the 2016 she wrote if bartolo were decent and honest would be of stuck with the labor party since the 1970 s. of course not decent and honest people left in droves when they saw what was going on she's right isn't she and no i don't think so and i don't agree with her comment i respect what you have done but i think she was very prejudiced against him and if you were decent would he have allowed himself to be part of muskrats power hungry bandwagon because if i and others worked it out from the outside he had to have known it from the inside that they were planning corrupt deals and i don't agree

with him because i did in my own little way and i'm not trying to kill. put myself in the in the role of a knight in the china government in my own little way i did what i could to train change things since i've entered politics and these problems that she's writing about she didn't try clegg when the other party was in government i have tried to bring about changes in my own lives a little girl wasn't just corrupt as you're aware that this is. but i beg to differ i beg to differ. she reported what she saw in front of she reported what she saw going on in malta at the time she will be as by the way should try to. before that i think it's unfair and the baton but it's just about all if you want malta's reputation respond a you're going to have to prove that this new government is better than the last one so for the sides are so far the signs are good no i don't think it's the other

car on the going to the son of death he says must get the still the power behind the throne the huge networks of influence and fanatical support in the labor liberty no i don't agree with matthew and the steps that have been taken during this month shows that there is a new good will to get things done really look no further than the man and within themselves and his family have been happy with the person who has been investigating the death of their of their money bill that they did not they did not said the investigator was most corrupt so i didn't say i didn't say they did but look no further than the man with the new justice portfolio edward zammit described as a family friend of the muskets used to go on holiday with them but i can tell you again that the new service of have been taken in the last month shows that there is a new good will we will be judged not paying to pete now but what you are saying now but what will happen in the next weeks and in the next month really doesn't look very much like it when the contract the government awarded

a contract to the disgraced former minister conrad mitzi the man you wanted to resign after he was named in the panama paper he was offered a job as tourism consultant on $80000.00 euros a year which had to be counselled rapidly after a huge public and defrauded new say this government handout it was can sit you can celebrate or through public no rush no i don't agree but why was he given a 2nd contract in the 1st place if he was about to be a legal grudge a new broom sweeping up the corruption you bring in the one of the most and. i mean that contract was done before before the change nothing after that wasn't a contract signed but under did new prime minister and without public pressure he would have kept you know not you totally disagree and they know what i'm telling you there was a lot of internal pressure and the board through the minister if you want a better reputation for malta a lot of people are going to have to tell the truth about the corruption the murder

and we're pretty far from that aren't we especially given the continue attacks we're seeing on free journalism in malta you've actually taught journalists what work they do you allow them know what their next on new day a watchdog reporters without borders spoke last october of a hostile environment for independent. you're showing you don't leave us alone with their own journalists in malta and the prevalence of lawsuits to silence public interest reporting they don't know what they're talking about you know nowhere in the sense i'm not saying that they don't know what they're talking but again you might find that this is contradictory but it's true we have liberalized freedom of the press and loss of tributed the press in the last 7 years we have decriminalized libel cases they are referring to a number of cases but to show to give the impression that that is rampant and journalism in malta is in is in jeopardy or a risk is not fair malta is if you are in need for

a low if you are twaddle or what a journalist strike and it's very robust and very strong criticism of what goes on more to it says is unique among a you countries for having extensive political control of the news media the 2 main political parties own their own t.v. and radio stations as well as both the daily and weekly print media and online portals and the international center for press and media freedoms at the worst risk for malta was a lack of political independence in the media haywood again defend their reality of a microstate where you either have certain excuse no system because you smith is trying to explain because whole how can you have a small newspaper which is viable and monitor its side there you either have a political party doing it or you have the state doing good business organizations don't don't find viable to have a media talk on asli it is a big challenge to try and understand how to have a media system in malta which is part of the checks and balances in

a democratic society but i repeat that is coming out of the reality of our microstate and it's not only more thought that has this perhaps the most unpleasant aspect of your party has been its attempts to dehumanize stuff nicole and the girl it's not just one she was alive but after her murder. an undercover investigation into secret restricted labor party hate groups online published by the digital paper the shift showed labor party supporters celebrating her killing within hours of the crime being committed the journalist was described in the facebook post as an evil witch who should burn in hell are you proud of this part of your definitely not and that still to be an acceptable and they made it very clear that it was still collective different and totally unacceptable and i hope and i'm at least happy that in the last month even the national monument where there is

a memorial to her has not been disturbed at all and they really hope that nearer the sun has a little more going on to tell it is a great deal more or not to celebrate them saying that at least that is happening and they really hope that very nearby there would be a monument to her forward to the world that she did the part that she did above to investigate her investigating corruption these facebook groups were actually administered by and home to senior government and labor party officials at one point the prime minister himself former prime minister was part of it what does that tell you about your beloved global pirtle that part they don't like and it's part of the local political culture which is not nice of the local political culture to celebrate her assassination calling her relatives a family of animals and completely unacceptable but there are fortunately it's part of the terminology sometimes of local political culture which she thump and use that is the labor party supporters as were you during the all the way to deal to get a new reputation with all this behind you have done to remove her as i said you have

to change change is painful but it would be more for you painful if we don't change every spatola thanks very much for being a local council thank you. he

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