but all of that comes straight from. the. delusion. into. their final resting place the russian. documentary. you know more you talk about a world who is being protected i'm asking you very simple who's protecting them one more time. i keep on saying. i will keep on pushing for all the truth come out after the murder of the prominent multiuse journalist. motor itself has become a byword from violence and corruption my guest this week here in munich is the country's foreign minister everest bartolo he says he wants to improve malta's tarnished image but how many more secrets have to come out before that will be

possible. ever aspire tolo welcome to conflict so thank you you've made it clear that in the wake of the murder of stephany corona and all the corruption scandals that have followed that malta needs to rebuild its reputation that isn't going to happen until their body starts telling the truth is that i agree at the fact when i was appointed for and i 1st minister because they told me to go ahead and see what you can do i made that very clear not a beautician not a plastic surgeon have there are a glib things which have to be dealt with they have to be dealt with in malta in terms of reality or not of the presentation of reality well we'll get into possibly what some of those 30 things are but i'm curious why former ministers like you supported a government that you knew was rotten to the core. well when things started coming

out of the time of the panama papers of course to succeed i made it very clear that they thought i'd accept a bit. but you say go on i stayed on. i had the choice. i admire savonarola but they had my galileo more i had to i had the survival strategy where i could fight another but there we used that experience to get there we've got to follow draws do up of the party had the time and now he's in the democratic party to negotiate things to make the government more accountable but your collective silence over the years helped cement in power a government that became a byword for corruption with conflicts of interest multiplying in the prime minister's office and the rule of law seriously undermined and you went along with the by staying in the government. yes i have said recently that perhaps. it

would have been wiser to resign in 2016 as a pressure to change things i acknowledge that but i have spoken even of the over the last 4 years against what you have just said it is a big question of a lot of lives and not to get on to say that i don't think it was very very i don't think if you were to live in a small society more though you know that there was the way i spoke and what i said was very very clear o.c. c.r.p. the highly respected organized crime and corruption reporting project i'm sure you know it they name joseph musket person of the year for 2019 an annual award that highlights an individual who has done most to advanced organized criminal activity and corruption in a given year it's a pretty shameful ward to the man you worked for isn't it but they made it clear to him even in 2016 to tours going to be in his interest to take the necessary steps

against those people in government who were involved with the money part of our papers and he didn't pay the huge price for it so how do you feel he deserves the award. i think i made it very clear to him that it was in his interest for a person to have contributed so much to a k'naan grew up with the introduction of civil liberties immortal then to have his record painted with that weather doesn't excuse him for what he did later doesn't know just because the economy was booming and you know of course murder and corruption were also on too many of them to have made for so very clear that the economic growth shouldn't come at any expense we should have occurred on the growth with rule of law and with clean government o.c. c.r.p. said that on the muskrats leadership criminality and corruption have flourished and in many cases gone unpunished creating an environment that led to the 27000 murder of tough knicker on the girlies here if they knew that the same message was coming for. other international watchdogs you had to know what was going on yourself

because you're not completely and while i'm too and i'm not trying to get away from this. first of all one of the big problems that we have and again i'm not trying to explain it away is that in our small society personal networks personal relations are stronger than institutionally once and at the expense of the public. because unfortunately the rule of family or do all of friends is stronger than the rule of law and this is an issue that we have to deal with and have come to a point now that we cannot delay taking all the necessary steps and more. so that's an outrageous assertion doesn't it minister go and say the personal relationships are worth more than the rule of law but if you were in government what's worth more than the rule of law yes but in the small societies i'm saying and i again i'm not trying to excuse anything small island states like malta microstates which are not as the size of minnesota but one 3rd of its population. it is true that when you

look at the primary groups of friends and family and then the 2nd the groups or institutions should come in the 1st group and the 2nd group it's very porous there is no bond there between one and the other all i'm saying is that in our society this it is a tougher and more formidable challenge to make sure that there is the rule of law that there are rules and there are regulators who serve in government are expected to accept that challenge and run i agree i agree i agree one of the things you limited was that you didn't take a stronger stand in 2016 against the least one of those minister friends of the former prime minister conrad mitzi who'd been named in the panama papers your biggest political mistake yet you called it even so your behavior was inexplicable wasn't it you called publicly for mitt's his resignation but you refused to endorse the parliamentary vote of no confidence against him or because the way the motion

had been framed and then the amendments that were put to death made it possible for us to hold the government to my government to introduce measures to increase accountability there but in the end you helped to keep in office a man whose behavior in your own view had been shot the a new adequate mycenaeans your old my single vote would it have made a difference it had every was going to vote makes a difference on the bottom but now doesn't know but not in that case with you where you have suppose you started another regular you didn't stand for your prince i agree with you but i tried to use that to negotiate measures to hold the government to account now when it happened when the city was impossible. where some measure started coming in but then when this time when you started coming after november i made it very clear that i was going to resign and they said i did they go or i go and they made enough pressure for them to go. but the fact is that your silence and

your continued support of the former prime minister made you and your colleagues complicit in this dysfunctional corrupt system i try to use internal pressure to get things done this time in november talking to remain i don't want only me p. code part of this swamp of corruption and financial. i try to do my bit better they haven't done enough but i am committed to do all i can to because this is a very important time for us it's a moment of truth i would call it we are at an existential crossroads since our independence 55 years ago we either get our house in order or we i think threaten our sovereignty and our livelihood the motor but there been so many warnings like that before have and then they were ignored in 2017 your own chief justice silvio comey larry warned that instead of the rule of law motor was heading to what he called the rule of delinquents another that was enough to change anybody's mind

then was a warning in stark sharp terms like the. debate when when things start to become more clear for us because you might think that i'm trying to get away from what you're telling me but. it's only recently that things became so clear to us what was happening and i know that even in 2016 they warned that there was a shadow government and their network of decision makers that were that were influencing what was happening but you didn't name names did you might think it was clear who i was referring to really it wasn't out so in the 63 that i think it was doing it live given that the same people were still in government and still a part of the establishment. i made internal pressure and i didn't manage to get them committed to concede that the whole system was in fact set up to to bypass independent scrutiny and prevent any kind of accountability wasn't it i mean the pit the prime minister's office for instance took over responsibility for areas

that presented particular opportunities for money laundering online gaming investment migration regulation of financial services it was clear that it was these areas were drowning in corruption and to buy the product getting the prime minister involved directly in them was keeping the regulators at bay wasn't it but i'm not changing i'm not i don't agree that all these activities and all these different economic sectors are rotten and corrupt there are definitely parts which are and where one of the problems i think that we have had. irrespective of the share of human nature with designers the that there is. when you have such strong economic growth and the regulators are not given enough resources or intentionally. to a certain is there is a skills intention to a certain extent yes but not all of them either but for example when it comes to

financial investigations those have been given a lot of resources i think the biggest problem that we have and the weakest weakest link in the chain is the economic crimes unit of the police and unless that is beefed up and really resourced with well qualified people of integrity this problem will remain because ultimately we're going to be judged on how many people are prosecuted not what i'm telling you now or what we say in granting ground that's really difficult when the judges and magistrates were appointed by the prime minister was that were the case in a system described by the council of europe's parliamentary assembly as incompatible with judicial independence and the rule of law but i think this is not fair in this case for a very simple reason it does is government the appointment of magistrate turned the judges have been more independent of the executive arm of government than ever before before the prime minister had talked of jurisdiction no it's not like that in the model there is a judicial appointment committee and we are intent definitely on taking the steps

of the venice commission has indicated you want to use to do so for not on but we have saturday i don't usually don't even in the last 30 that differ in the last week even sorry even in the last month apart from the last week sets have been taken to start implementing those recommendations under dinu prime minister. in may 2016 when you said things were fine. they plainly weren't were they you said the government had already started in 2016 to introduce a culture of better political responsibility and transparency that wasn't true will you know it all struck those who had the measures that i told you about here but 3 years later though the council of europe reported that major scandals were arising going unreported and uninvestigated for the 1st time we have we have introduced this is the contradiction of this government and of the moscow government as well for the 1st time we introduced measures to hold government to account that had

never been introduced before now where they were they were they weren't working or nuff but why give them away give them a free pass say a culture better political responsibility and transparency has been introduced then we had the panama papers the electric gas the further hilman the further vittles global health care for the golden passport all all time and again featuring the same key figures close to the prime minister and the police and several instances mysteriously failing to act and none of that was serious enough for you to say you've crossed my red lines you've crossed the many many times i did see it and turned. and they repeated the weakest link was and still remains even now and we have to act about the economic crimes in it because it's not enough to name people it's not enough to investigate them then you need to prosecute just about all you know much much more than you are telling them to do more than you've ever told you

no names you know places you know where the bodies are buried don't you and have you taken a vow of silence no i have it and if they are you afraid for you it is a live one of them you see what happens to people no tell the truth and you know that you know very good if there is anyone who has not taken a vow of silence is me because i have spoken i have spoken up time and taken her to dance around the subject you make cryptic comments like justice can be served without fear of. favor without burning this country to cinders and without burning or hurting those who want justice done what on earth is not clean it's not critical to the earth does it mean who is it addressed to it was addressed to my government but then they pulled enough pressure for that change to happen you also don't have a facebook the country cannot protect murderers money launderers and other criminals justice has to be done and i don't really wasn't the country protecting

these people was it it was your fellow politicians and lawyers 'd servants like you were either turning a blind eye or actively perverting the course of justice and pushing for that to happen it still has to happen i'm pushing for that perhaps mr brattle who exactly was and is protecting murderers in malta who 1st of all when it comes to the assassination of the cabinet galatea we have a judicial process going gone now because the alleged killers have been brought to justice but you know more than this don't you you know more than this do you mean i know more than this you know more you talk about murderers being protected i'm asking you very simply who's protecting them on malta who i keep on saying well i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out but you're not answering my question i'm asking you i cannot give you my note and no course not the bones of because of their names why did general to the police if there are investigations i

can assure you that i'm doing my duty and my only being to the police. i'm doing my duty i don't know what that means because you kept a 1000000 as i will who was clearly more corrupt than he should have been. hugely so i will i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out and they will stick my reputation and how do we know that when you won't nobody judge you sit in front of the camera and you won't tell me what you will be judged by will be judged by what happens but it's this is exactly this climate of silence and these networks of criminal corruption that created a permissive environment and allowed someone to believe they could get away with the killing of definite corona and silence free journalism they have done more but they haven't got over it lit it they have a lot of it it we have had political assassinations before and no one was brought to justice at least in this case we've started doing these things this isn't the

end of story no it's not the end of the story and it cannot be the end of the story did all the troops it's uncovered and by the by admitting that it isn't the end of the story you know that the story goes further and you know that this network that arranged for her assassination hasn't come to light yet has it but this phone says we have to keep on pushing for all the truth to be uncovered. we only have your word that you will do that and that will do it it will help to have the commitment of the prime minister of israel and the minister for the interior who has started taking a courageous decision but this in those education was tainted from the start for them to do this is no law some of the council of europe warn that a series of magistrate should have been taken off the case because of conflicts of interest likewise the investigating police officer force claims that sayed said were made by the minister of the interior but progress in the investigation if that's not an investigation tainted with them is all because it did give results

and 11 important point in all this is that there are other services involved including the report so even if there are elements who want to cover up that information is available to the force beyond malta so that there's a good guarantee that the whole truth will come out. definitely khurana gilead's here didn't have much that was nice to say about you did she. december 26th in she wrote the tolo were decent and honest with the of stuck with the labor party since the 1970 s. of course not decent and honest people left in droves when they saw what was going on she's right isn't she and i don't think so and i don't agree with her comment i respect what she had this done but i think she was very prettiest against them and if you were decent would have allowed himself to be part of muskets power hungry bandwagon because if i and others worked it out from the outside he had to have known it from the inside that they were planning corrupt deals and i don't agree

with him because i did in my own little way and i'm not trying to. put myself in the in the role of a knight in shining armor in my own little way i did what i could to train change things since i've entered politics and these problems that she's writing about she didn't try to like that and the other part was in government i have tried to bring about changes in my own lives they look at me with interest corruptors you're aware that there's a but i beg to differ i beg to differ. she reported what she saw in front of she reported what she saw going on in malta at the time she will be as but that the way should try to. live for that i think it's unfair and the baton but it's just about all if you want malta's reputation response a you're going to have to prove that this new government is better than the last one and so for the sides are so far the signs are good no i don't think it's the

koran they're going to tell you no sound the son of death he says must go the still the power behind the throne the huge networks of influence and fanatical support in the label bertie no i don't agree with matthew and the steps that have been taken during this month shows that there is a new good will to get things done really look no further than the minute we can sense and his family have been happy with the person who has been investigating the death of their of their money because if they did not they did not say the investigator of us was corrupt so i didn't say i didn't say they did but look no further than the man with the new justice portfolio edward zammit described as a family friend of the muskets used to go on holiday with them but i can tell you again that the new subs of have been taken in the last month shows that there is a new good will we will be judged not pay a repeat not but what you are saying now but what will happen in the next weeks and in the next month it really doesn't look very much like it when the contract the

government awarded a contract to the disgraced former minister conrad mitzi the man you wanted to resign after he was named in the panama paper he was offered a job as tourism consultant on $80000.00 euros a year which had to be counselled rapidly after a huge public and defrauded new say this government done that it was can sit here and so going to through public no rush no i don't agree but why was he given a 2nd contract in the 1st place he was about to be a legal grudge a new broom sweeping up the corruption you bring in the one of the most had. i mean that contract was done before before the change not after that wasn't a contract signed but under the new prime minister and without public pressure he would have kept you known until i totally disagree and they're not what i'm telling you there was a lot of internal pressure and the board through the minister if you want a better reputation for malta a lot of people going to have to tell the truth about the corruption in the murder

and we've been pretty far from that aren't we especially given the continue attacks we're seeing on free journalism in malta you've actually taught journalists what they do a lot of know what their next on new day a watchdog reporters without borders spoke last october of a hostile environment for independent. you're shaking your head at the hospital of the defendant journalists in malta and the prevalence of lawsuits to silence public interest reporting they don't know what they're talking about you know nowhere in the sense that i'm not saying that they don't know what they're talking but again you might find that this is contradictory but it's true we have liberalized freedom of the press and loss of tribute in the press in the last 7 years we have decriminalized libel cases they are referring to a number of cases but to show to give the impression that that is rampant and that journalism in malta is in is in jeopardy or a risk is not malta is if you are in need follow if you are twaddle or what our

journalists strike and it's very robust and very strong criticism of what goes on more to it says is unique among a new countries for having extensive political control of the news media the 2 main political parties own their own t.v. and radio stations as well as both the daily and weekly print media and online portals and the international center for press and media freedoms at the worst risk for malta was a lack of political independence in the media haywood again defend their reality of a microstate who are you why there have been excuse not just because you smith is trying to explain because whole how can you have a small newspaper which is viable in malta its side there you either have a political party doing it or you have the state doing good business organizations don't find viable to have a media talk on asli it is a big challenge to try and understand how to have a media system in malta which is part of the checks and balances in

a democratic society but i repeat that is coming out of the reality of our microstate and it's not only in water that has this perhaps the most unpleasant aspects of your party has been its attempts to dehumanize stuff and occur on the glitzier not just while she was alive but after her murder. an undercover investigation into secret restricted labor party hate groups online published by the digital paper the shift showed labor party supporters celebrating her killing within hours of the crime being committed the journalist was described in the facebook post as an evil witch who should burn in hell are you proud of this part of your definitely not and it's totally unacceptable and i made it very clear that the 2 are still clearly accepted and totally unacceptable and i hope and i'm at least happy that in the last month even the national monument where

there is a memorial to her has not been disturbed at all and they really hope that near it both the sun and it is a little more a good day on the hill it is a great deal more or not to tell a brit i'm saying that that please that is happening and they really hope that very nearby there would be a monument to her for the word that she did the part that should be a devolved investigate could investigate in corruption these facebook groups were actually administered by and home to senior government and labor party officials at one point the prime minister himself former prime minister was part of it what does that tell you about your beloved global pirtle that part i don't like and it's part of the local political culture which is not nice of the local political culture to celebrate her assassination calling her relatives a family of animals and completely unacceptable but there are fortunately it's part of the terminology sometimes of local political culture which is sometimes used because the labor party supporters as where you don't have all the way to deal to get a new reputation with all this behind you don't you who has i said you have to change

change is painful but it would be more for you painful if we don't change every spatola thanks very much for being for culprits thank you. i'm going to.

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play. this is the news live from a crucial phase in the race for the white house democratic presidential hopeful joe biden holds his 1st campaign event with his newly named running mates come on harris the senator from california is the 1st woman of color to run on the major parties. also coming up a human chain of the. protests against police brutality a 4th night of mass defiance following president has disputed.