rocks to. many different walks of life. some are. awfully strong not all of them come straight from the heart. you put one through the morning delicious the mushroom. from the logs to their final resting place the russians w. documentary. will he stay or will he go donald trump kicked off his party's convention by joking that he might stay not for but even 12 more years it came as no surprise that the convention nominated the president for a 2nd term were unexpected was the dark mood at a meeting that had been billed as sending a message of hope and optimism instead trump sharply attacked his rival joe biden

and accuse the democrats of scheming to manipulate nail when. biden himself says he will be an ally of the light not the darkness trump versus by a dirty fight for the us presidency that is our title and. welcome to to the point it is a pleasure to introduce our guests sudha david will is deputy director of the berlin office of the transatlantic think tank the german marshall fund and she says american elections are always full of dirty campaign tricks but this year the rhetoric will be harsher than ever. and it's a pleasure to welcome growth and he is a political lobbyist with republicans overseas and his opinion the track record of both candidates doesn't lie and in the long run. and quality always succeeds

therefore trump will prevail. and great to have with us once again soraya sarhaddi nelson she is the program director of the english speaking radio station t.c. r w berlin and she says the republican national convention this week shows how damaged the presidency is many prominent republicans didn't even take part. so let me ask you souter you say american election campaigns are always dirty so was there anything about these 2 party conventions that actually surprised you know i think it's to be expected given the you know how strong polarization is in the united states at the moment certainly there's always dirty campaign tricks over you know in u.s. election history but i think this time it's 2 parties pitted against each other framing each other as sort of enemies for the united states or existential threat for the united states and that's why it's especially harsh and that mood of

darkness that we heard particularly on the 1st night of the republican convention nothing there that really stood out for you particularly. harsh well i think you know president trump in 2016 we saw this and also during the 2018 midterm elections his montra for winning elections is like let's play the fear let's use fear as a way of winning and the question is of whether a work in 2020. well for him to the republicans have promised an upbeat convention but in fact they will largely delivered the opposite what's the message behind that well the message behind the convention is that he has a strong team he has a strong family he has a message we transport and he's a track record of course the track record is a cut anomaly until carona quite successful i think he's going to play the car that he's the leader that he's a good econ economic

a leader and i think we'll see in the future you know in the next 8 to 10 weeks whether we get a more a a a campaign towards more economically issue was or more little right sort of mentioned the fear element in fact we've heard a lot of speakers at the convention saying the president is the only one who can really protect americans and keep them secure but the fact is that the chaos we're seeing right now in the united states has occurred on his watch well the point but the question is who is possible for parts of the chaos i mean he didn't manage money from corona for instance it's not been his responsibility it's on the individuals they the point is he's responsible for it for the economy yes but he's not responsible for this little rights discussion i think i think it's be very very have to be very cautious who is responsible for such problems maybe if we've we've talked about this for more than 1020 years now that there are problems and we have

that at the obama biden administration and they haven't been doing much against that as well soraya you talked about prominent republicans not taking part in the republican convention in fact a number of them took part in the democratic one warning voters and not to vote for donald trump once again my question to you would be though how many people are really getting that message will it change support for donald trump because if you look at the numbers it seems. that at most 30 percent of american voters have been watching these conventions that's true but on the other hand and there's no doubt that there's you're talking about a big that's going to stay with donald trump and it's going to be very difficult to move them but there is also that large i mean there are republicans who perhaps you're in for a different time our party i mean this party has been redefined at this point to be a trump loyalist party i mean in the in the people who are not showing up you know

that that that's because they just refuse to follow that line and so i think that there are a large number of voters out there that could deviate i mean that could go in another direction to somebody like joe biden and come alive harris because it's just it's more moderate and so there is a there is a large component there that is not being addressed by this very narrow definition that we've seen or that we're seeing roughly as you say about this trump a loyalist party in fact to this convention the republican convention has been absolutely dominated by the president's family the party for good for went having a program a platform that's a historic 1st it seems like the platform is donald trump has the republican party become in fact a personality cult well of personally cold but finally now compared to last as it has a track record you know don't forget he was not a politician before he went into office and he was a he was a businessman now he has

a 4 years you know track record and now he can claim what i have been doing the last 4 years and basically i've kept a lot of promises and he's playing that card very well i mean let's hear from the president himself and come right back to us or i i see you want to respond but let me let me 1st hear from the president himself he has been claiming for some time now that the only way he could lose would be if the election is rigged and as the republican convention got under way he spelled out how he thought that might happen . we caught them doing some really bad thing is in 2016 let's see what happens we caught him doing some really bad things we have to be very careful because they're trying it again with this whole 80000000 mail in ballots at their work you know. sending them out to people that didn't ask for that in a state just gave them the only way they can take this election away from us is if

this is a rigged election we're going to win this election. so serrano you wanted to respond just now to ralph that perhaps you can also tell us what's the president doing there. well he's doing what he does and does very well which is sort of elevate the fear factor and basically say this is the trump reality there's no way he could lose unless this is a rigged election and there are a lot of people who believe that so that is a card he's playing even though it may come back to haunt me you know we'll have to see how that goes i was just going to say though about the loyalists thing i mean i think it's what trump is all it has established is not just a record but he really has been much more about who says what i mean he's fired people for not being 100 percent loyal to him anybody who questions him or questions and his policy is gone i mean the people who are left the white house right now are diehard trump supporters and loyalists who will even to the point of the medical people who are advising him in the pandemic you know it's it's like my

way or the highway so to me i don't know i don't i find that to be new i don't think this is just an incumbent president having you know his supporters sort of rallying around him for a 2nd term so what do you make of the fact that the president is saying he can't lose the election unless it's rigged what are the implications about well it sounds like he's setting things up so that if he is to lose he can say point the vicar and say look it's unfair and he can still sort of hold clout outside of office so he. still sort of be an agitator outside the white house but the irony actually is that you know recently there was a bipartisan report released from the u.s. senate both republicans and democrats said that in 2016 the russians did it to fear in the u.s. elections and that's kind of ironic actually that he's saying that because there is there has been a bipartisan report saying there was russian interference and there was collusion but there was no evidence to convict ralph in

a climate as polarized and heated as the one that we have in the u.s. right now are 2 words like that that essentially throw doubt skepticism on the entire democratic process the very core of that process and election are they playing with fire absolutely and a point i have a different opinion i think it's an appropriate for a president to say that like stuff like that also he claimed 4 years ago he's going to throw a hillary clinton into prison i thought that was inappropriate either so i think there's a red line and the president shouldn't pass this line was not too often do you think there's a real chance that if the results of the election are indeterminate those mail in ballots they may take weeks to count is there a real chance that he would contest an election result. i've no idea so the 1st time in history that that would happen at this point i don't have the fantasy to go that far i don't think that's going to happen serai talked about playing with

fire we have seen president trump discredit democratic institutions again and again what are the systemic consequences that well i mean he still is playing to a populace that wants to see things shaken up i think that the lines become so blurred as to what perhaps could use reform institutions that we stand by that i think this is something that's going to be very hard for whoever is the next president to kind of heal i think that people are going to continue to react with emotion and with you know defend their positions without facts necessarily and that's that's still sort of i think the mantra that sort of has become america and it's very dangerous i think it's dangerous as you mentioned for democratic institutions you know we have yet to see what will happen with with the election you know postal service you know you name it there are just things that are there

are crumbling and that people don't really understand what the damage could be if that continues let's perhaps dig a bit deeper on that dark mood to that we have seen at the republican convention and maybe also tie it to some of the events international wisconsin this week numerous speakers have stoked fear and anger at the republican meeting with predictions of mob violence in the streets and one of those who found the flames was the president's son donald trump jr in a speech that many observers saw as a launching pad for his own political ambitions. people of faith are under attack you're not allowed to go to church but mass chaos in the streets gets a pass it's almost like this election is shaping up to be church work and school versus rioting looting and vandalism.

so let us now go to a suit and pseudo on the same evening that donald trump jr spoke we heard a very striking appearance by a couple named mccloskey mccluskey's have been charged with a felony for pointing their weapons at black protesters who were going through their streets. are the republicans with a statement like that with statements like we just heard from donald trump jr are they indirectly if not directly exploiting racism well i think it's become sort of a party of grievance and you know there are of course in 2016 i think donald trump was very smart to see that there were parts of the u.s. electorate that were still suffering and people feeling left behind the question now is where does the lines cross as we've often talked about how dollar trump breaks norms and crosses certain lines where it becomes taking advantage of people

with fear and also actually harming them because they're stoking division and what . is describing in a world according to biden is actually happening now under donald trump's watch so i hope getting back to your question also about the results of the election i hope that there is a resoundingly win for either side because then i think that the country can sort of move on and not have this sort of neck and neck division of you know polarization we need to have some constructive work moving forward. from republicans abroad sorry i think i got that name wrong at the outset of the show in wisconsin those divisions have been on display this week on tuesday night we saw armed civilians get into a scuffle with protesters while they were trying whether armed civilians were trying to guard a car dealership 2 people were killed isn't your party the republican

party playing with fire when it's instrumental izing racial resentment and fear of mob violence in a way like what we have seen this week well the point is and then along order and the president is as well the point is how far do you go right i think if we have it at this point we don't get. he's on the streets you need to strong a strong administration i believe but there's a certain point a red line where this is crossed and where will where there also racism is involved so i believe we should really as you say we should really like like come down a little bit and watch it come up as after perspective after i have to say i asked myself yes when i saw the events in khost on tuesday night to what degree the appearance of charged people charged with a felony on the 1st night of the convention incites people like these armed

civilians in can osha to take to the streets. the as a german the whole situation is awkward i mean absolutely and you we were talking about gun laws are we talking about. scenarios which we will never have in this country so this point i'm i'm i'm very modest person i would never agree to that i mean president trump we have to say has certainly played you know he's very he's sort of stoking the flames of white nationalism and the united states and his own assistant secretary for counterterrorism and homeland security just came out with a video she's a former official and said that president trump is doing that and you saw what happened with the synagogue in 2018 you saw the white nationalists and charlottesville and the republican party and also donald trump have to vehemently reject those ideas of having any place in the republican party soraya much of this

is aimed at white suburban voters there's been a lot of talk about the suburbs and the mccluskey's of course are the incarnation of those white suburban dwellers not coincidentally because it is precisely white suburban residents who have been discerning the republicans for the democrats particularly in the midterm elections in 2018 do you think that this kind of talk that we're seeing would win them back to the republican party i don't think so and i don't think i'm a clock mccluskey's really represent white suburban voters or at least the white suburban vote. associated with i mean i honestly do think that people are you know they want to tone down i don't think that this. i don't think it helps when you have downtowns on fire and you know if for the people who are violently protesting i think it unfortunately gates you know to a large extent the peaceful protests that you see and that is the danger but i just

i don't see that message or those sorts of people. somehow swaying the those suburban voters in last and there's if we can last if the fear factor somehow takes hold together if the discuss and the frustration and it's time for something new is replaced by that fear factor again let's just give a quick listen to donald trump space all of you have pointed out that he seems to be playing to his base and they seem prepared to stick by him. i think he's doing his best i know he loves this country and i b.b.'s best the best because i've been so happy with him from day one. what is it that you like about. just the fact that he's. trying to. live the christian life. that democrats have become socialists communists. and all they want is the structure and prefer.

the black lords not our movement a terrorist organization very much similar pitch it was brought in for. souter as the democrats have repeatedly pointed out at their party convention the trump administration has perhaps the worst record on colona management of any country and certainly of any industrialized country why would that matter to term space i think the republican party is just a split of the democratic party and the voices that we just heard from are you know certainly one extreme wing of the party but they're also interested in social issues so you know the question of abortion and the question of sort of religious freedom for christians those thing play a larger role and they ignore the distasteful tweets they ignore the fact that president trump has cut taxes for the you know one percent in the united states and not necessarily help working class white people in the united states and is also

trying to strip away obamacare right and also that hurts people with preexisting conditions so there's a lot of. pocker say but i think that they believe that he's delivered for them on the social issues on the so-called culture wars rougher and can president trump win by appealing to his base alone well he did it last time which is. as i said a couple times before. dawn comes also the outcome of the administration obama and biden and a lot of democrats are dissatisfied with was there actually what they claimed him finally fulfilled so yes it worked last time and probably the mobilization of the republican party is usually higher than of the democratic party but the democratic party has probably in the sun most voters so it's going to be very interesting to to see if if if the president is able to mobilize his voters what do you think

soraya a campaign based on fear and anger on indirect if not directly says i'm really think it can can win i think maybe we'll see some republican voters staying home this time if they can't stomach voting for the for the democrats but i i also think that the democrats don't have it in the bag with their own voters i mean there is. what who is a democratic voter these days you know the progressive certainly are feeling left out of this particular race and i there wasn't much outreach during or at least didn't feel like there was much outreach during the democratic convention so that has to change in the coming week a super quick listen to one of the speeches at the democratic convention namely biden's acceptance speech. i'll be an ally of the light not the darkness. joe biden promises the usa a better future. his words were underscored by big emotions despite the

fact that the democratic national convention took place on line. the current president has called america darkness for much too long. too much anger too much fear too much to vision. here and now i give you my word if you entrust me with the presidency i will draw on the best of us not the worst i'll be an ally of the light not the darkness. as a man of the people and crisis manager joe biden wants to heal the usa which has been hit hard by economic and societal turmoil at his side is common to harris and as his vice president she intends to help him win the white house we must elect a president who will bring something different something better and do the important work a president who will bring all of us together black white latino asian

indigenous to achieve the future we collectively weren't. we must elect joe biden. but the democrats haven't offered many concrete strategies about how they plan to overhaul the country is not being donald trump enough for them to win. sooner can the democrats really go high when the republicans go low or do they have to resort to dirty tricks as well to win well i mean i think that never trampers are being dirty for. you know the lincoln project for. golo for the democrats but at the end of the day i actually don't think vice president biden is a necessarily a different candidate but he's back to some sort of normalcy back to you know an america that had stability but that may not be enough in the long run and that's

why i do think that vice president biden if he does win is sort of an interim solution for the democrats sariah unlike the republicans the democrats do have a party program and it actually does incorporate some pretty progressive issues and suggestions including strengthening unions for example is that enough to get the kind of broad mobilization the democrats are going to need i think that he and or also common law they'll need to reach out more they have especially because the primary showed you know where the divisions lie and i think that there needs to be more outreach i mean that that to me is what i hear from younger people like my son casey segment of the voters will be black americans rougher on both parties are striving to mobilize them we've seen a very powerful speech by a black senator at the republican convention who's more likely to garner their votes will be going to towards the democrats but that is the argument 4 years ago was what do you as a black voter have to lose if you voted republican i mean the track record towards

the black voters 8 years ago on them 4 years ago and more was in that successful leaders so so what do they have to lose let me ask of you to say in one word whether you agree or disagree with michelle obama when she said believe me things can and will get worse if donald trump is elected let me ask you this now going to get worse in the next 2 months so i mean i agree simply one word i agree or do i can i elaborate i mean the adults in the room are gone it's a different type. trump administration unpleasant soraya now and after the election get worse yeah i think that's the direction it's headed. i'll say we're going to. then very successful economies along. ok many thanks to all of you for those brief last answers and for this very very interesting discussion and thanks to everybody out there for tuning and saying he sent.

me a much. much the bottom of.

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morning to you those limits a series of implosion on the long run. this

is the news live from berlin echoes of history as u.s. protesters renew calls for racial justice 57 years after martin luther king jr's i have a dream speech tens of thousands of people gathered on the same spot the rally follows another shooting of a black man by a white police officer. also on the show respect to so.