we are working tirelessly to keep you informed on all of our platforms. and together make it. to you see everybody. stay safe stay safe please stay safe. they have done a better job in terms of i think he has done oh sure. someone amazingly to promote the away from trouble should remain people alone. in their bedrooms. these days america's religious rights are in the spotlight as they support donald trump spent to get a 2nd term in the white house for their activities on confined to the u.s. numerous groups are active in europe and elsewhere seeking to overturn a whole raft of lords of legalized among other things abortion and gay marriage the

well congress of families provides a powerful platform for such groups and this week one of its founders allan carlson joins me from rockford illinois what lies behind these close connections with russia and why won't he leave the gay community alone. alan carlson welcome to conflict zone. the world congress of families is a very benign name for a group that's credited with inflicting considerable misery on many people around the world these days the southern poverty law center which has tracked your movement for a very long time says you're one of the key driving forces behind the religious right's global export of homophobia and classifies you as a hate group do you wear that with pride i don't accept the label at all not we're

not a group at all the southern poverty law center has its own agenda its own fundraising goals and it distorts the truth of a vast i.c.'s approach away group yes as a pro-life group we affirm understandings of the natural family of family based and focused on the procreation bearing of children and we see that as protecting nationally style that family form is vital to the future of the human race so why is it then the conferences have frequently featured plenty of hate speech haven't they let me quote some of them to you tell the l g p t tolerance tyrants this lavender mafia these homo fascists these rainbow radicals that they're not welcome to promote their anti religious and anti civilizational propaganda this was from one of the speakers in to police in may 26th that certainly fits the hate speech bill doesn't it i don't think someone i think it

talks some article a conflict over only different views of human life and human nature. and it also reflects the reality that the l.g.b. table but in some places and in some ways and sometimes has become very. actually hate based has focused very much on attacking its opponents and dehumanizing them so that they have a they are now about. are there the hate groups now are they well certainly they they they bear some of the characteristics of being a hate group yes they are they do not listen to arguments they do not respond to rational arguments they seek to silence people and they seek the silence particularly those who are motivated by religious faith so i yes there is something close to 8 replaced though i'm not. again at the sustaining that well you have had frequent speaker joe conferences scott lively the man who proclaims that gay

people were responsible for the holocaust and the rwandan genocide he was sued in u.s. district court for his role in promoting an anti-gay law in uganda and the judge ruled the case couldn't be tried in the u.s. but his comments were highly constructive if scott lively he said had added a did a vicious and frightening campaign of repression. by people in uganda this crackpot bigotry he added could be brushed aside as pathetic except for the terrible harm it can cause a question before the court is not whether the defendant's actions in aiding and abetting efforts to demonize intimidate and injure l g b t people in uganda constitute violations of international law they do that really sums up what you and your friends are about doesn't it crackpot bigotry the words of a u.s. district judge well scott likely has not been that close of a friend to this but it is true it through something of

a mid-air one of my colleagues invited him to a planning meeting and he was there i certainly know it's true i'm not sure and i think scott goes too far and has gone too far so i don't think you're dealing with a representative person of our of our movement or organization i think scott's work pushes the edge too far and i'm not i don't affirm it well you haven't repudiated him in the past have you. well actually i have i have a saying saying jackie what i said in a number of interviews that is claims to have influenced policy in places like uganda and russia i said i just don't think are true this is just one example as i said the of the rhetoric used by you is stuff designed to inspire fear and hatred of homosexuals isn't that in 2014 the w.c.s. claimed that it's cofa civic dialogue that it had never taken a position for or against so called sodomy laws nor had it attempted to roll back

the rights gained by these individuals that was pure nonsense wasn't it the human dignity trust claims that through your support fandy gay legislation you helped turn gays in many countries into outlaws outside the protection of the law was that your aim i don't know of any case where we had any direct role or even in any direct role at least in such changes it is true we have never taken a formal view on i guess or on any sodomy laws. and in fact my main my focus and my concern when i was certainly right was lead in the organization i retired now but when i was leaving the organization my focus was always on the protection of natural marriage and the understanding is that by and large leaving people alone. in their bedrooms was was birth of illegitimate. what became an issue is when they

wanted to make public policy building around alternative family forms as some call it i would call it as a builder of rejection of the natural family model and the recently extended should support that in that model alone it does that's where children come from that's for sure born it's where stable relationships between mothers and fathers are really important finally the future of their nations and each of the children that's been our focus and i think you'd be looking at sort of what i recall some say. not the main message but maybe some extreme edges of things where. i just don't accept the argument where you say you have never attempted the you and i was asian says it's never attempted to roll back the rights gained by the l g b t community the w.c.s. never has never will advocate for any policy that bring harm to innocent

individuals but one of your leading lights in africa to raise oka for former w c f person of the year as being key in trying to roll back al g b t rights in africa she strongly supported again a harsh anti-gay law in nigeria and this is a law that not only mandated long jail sentences for gay sex but banned gay people from meeting in groups that's policing the bedroom isn't it and that's what she stood for up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex if you feel good about that. well if you're going to monasteries is a good roman catholic and she's been working to defend and protect. the christian understanding of marriage and. and defend and protect our children and she's been there done that i don't like on that hasn't she done to carlson she's been pushing for laws that provide for up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex i'm asking you whether you approve of that throughout

approve of and i sodomy laws in the united states joe nigeria deal with its own issues i think you may be exaggerating her views on some of those things but let's assume that they're correct again i'm. certain that your is a different circumstance a different situation different point in its history that we are to so. i will i will say that the research has been a friend of the of the movement. and. i'll just leave it at that and you think it would be fair for somebody to spend 10 years in jail because they love someone of the same sex i think it would be fair that society and law reinforces a protection defends the natural family and that it reinforces a protection defense children and protects them from sexual behaviors but you're not healthy for the children you're not on seeing the question the garson you like

to play something you like to play semantic games up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex whose business is that it's not your business somebody is business who people love is it is an american city right here you're right it's not my best. but you've spent many many years trying to get people to police sexuality personal sexuality. to protect children yes. that's because nowhere are they casualties your organization has produced more power than in russia your major partner in trying to crack down on the gay community where you've been incredibly i would say even brutally successful 5 years after russia passed its law against gay propaganda a law that you personally and the w.c. have to light it in helping to construct hate crimes against lesbian gay bisexual

and transgender people were reported to have doubled do you consider that a good achievement. i don't think you're drawing some conclusions or that may or may not be correct. to may not be related. to law in russia which again i think was related and focused on russian situations and russian issues and russian historical developments were focused on the protection of children not authorize sure encourage in any direct or even indirect way. 8 actions or to describe it it said no you cannot assess propagandize. sexual radicalism torched that's a chair whether you intended it or not in the 6 years after this law was passed police in the semi autonomous region of chechnya felt chechnya felt empowered to launch a massive wave of unlawful detentions beatings and ritual humiliations of men presumed

to be gay police kicked them with booted feet beat them with sticks and pipes and tortured several with electric shocks. why don't you stand up for their rights do you think that's a good think police to do with gays. a no i don't and i don't think the right my russian friends would say that was the way the law was intended to be implemented as i don't think it was why don't they say that in public and why don't you say that in public they have to sit in public i just have yeah but why didn't you say it before i actually have when i've been asked the question i mean a few years ago the british actor in mckellen visited moscow he required a bodyguard as he pointed out for one reason only he's gay and that's the kind of russia you praise isn't it the one that presents such a threat to the l g b t community. i present russia has come out. a

russia terrible period known as communism a terrible century of the 20th century massive period of death from slaughter if you logical conflict. followed by a period when they tried western liberalism not the good kind of western liberalism or the bad track and that left everything run loose and free and they found that their families just a must in collapse and so they're trying to put things back together again. and i think there's a pretty good job. in the last 1520 years. not perfect. certainly has not written the laws that they have but most of them look. big improvement for russia they have done a better job in terms of protecting family and i think children from crete from mercian and the sexual bit sexuality that's not healthy for the children as a. really good job and the fact that the kremlin uses laws to silence l g b

t activist suppressed peaceful protests and sense a online expression is not your concern. well you say those things i'm tired not sure what specifics you're talking about it is my concern that they try to do this as as and as reasonable and honorable way as they can sometimes that doesn't happen i grant that but i can't just sit here and. condemn her precise specifics which i have not had a chance to look at it well has a specific has been in 2014 just off the russia had seized crimea in an operation almost universally condemned you know managing director at the time larry jacobs declare i think russia is the hope for the world that right now to be clear about the context russia had just bought through an international border and that the

staggering state aggression and the w c f was simple tenuously telling the world what a great country russia was you happy that you become a fully fledged p.r. agency for the kremlin. actually i was very unhappy for personal w.c.s. reasons about the wii u. earlier in incursion the invasion was actually a sion of of the crimea why we had planned a world congress a family session in moscow for over 2014 where we were going to be the primary sponsor and that was on its way happening the invasion of the crimea took place sanctions were imposed by the united states and by european union and those sanctions some of them were targeted at people who were involved in the russian meeting we had to cancel our there's a patient you went along anyway you went to you you know people went along anyway

and you name the congress something different. i wasn't there and i hope that you know people date you had people who when i see you some some of my allies did none of them were actual employees of my organization some were contractors who were some of the essence faces on set or would be an example that was always a contractor not a white none of our employees well why did you not stand up and condemn the repression that followed russia's seas of crimea. you set yourself up as as a more hands and i phone hasn't one has to choose one's issue is i'm a historian i'm a story in a modern europe and i understand the complicated history behind. well the relationship of trade crimea ukraine russia belarus and the old soviet empire. now i wish they had not done so and sacked when i was asked i did but i abide by my issues i've tried to stay focused on the family issues.

and like to say my own. potential to take part in that moscow congress which i didn't want to do very much was spoilt by the invasion of the crimea and so i regret it for a very personal reasons you don't seem to regret what your own government has been talking about which is that the russian authorities in occupied crimea were continuing and are continuing to persecute and intimidate minority religious congregations you of course said nothing about that either you seem to manage a kind of tunnel visioned up to carlson in which you don't look at the bigger picture you're simply interested in your own rights and you don't care whether people repress others or create unfair conditions for them you simply focused on your own issue. you preach a kind of morality to the rest of the world but what's what's moral about the

russians persecuting and intimidating minority religious congregations and you staying silent about that what's moral about that. first of all i say i would agree with you i do have a kind of a tunnel vision in terms of the public at the extent of the work i've done i don't reject them because one starts one's once one starts wandering into other questions related questions then there are others or not there's another pretty soon you're lose your focus and no one's going to pay attention to you so yes i do have a kind of a tunnel vision on the. other side the blind eye to to repression on a grand scale just to advance your own rather not a definition of what you think a family should be you have no redlines nobody's to shady to morrow to cook it for you as long as they're on your side when it comes to the family your happy to deal with the all right well i want to say that there's certainly there are lies or some people i don't deal with and you mentioned scott lightly i made it very clear i

didn't want to have scott lightly involved in our work going forward. so now there are lies and. there with asset and in politics your alliances are with sometimes with people whose maybe you're whose motives are not pure that's all objects you know when you claim to vote for some from someone for political for other oluseyi like cancer there and equally analyze what lays behind that well if you care about humanity you would you would on the lies that if you cared about religious freedom you would care about what the russians have been doing to persecute religious minorities in crimea but you've never spoken publicly about that. well that's your vast true but i let's let's let's go with what you just set what we have been know it and i think one of the things our involvement in russia has done has been to change the trajectory of

the russian orthodox church which. prior to about 20 years ago was very inward looking. just focused on its own agenda its own the ology its own relationships i think we have helped to bring the russian orthodox church into a new kind of i think human isn't it human ism. of. involving working together for the 1st time. with roman catholics with protestants with that even mormons the latter day saints church on a pro-family pro-life agenda and i think it's it's been a dramatic change in the look of the orthodox church how they still jealously protect their own privileges and interests in russia i am stand that i think that's loosening up and i hope maybe we've had some effect and help in doing but then

again you know i'm not interested in any of that. oh i'm interested in all of it but i also understand the limits of my own involvement in these things how much money have the russians given you know group not a single dime no not in terms of sponsorship not in terms of funding you know some of your congresses never received any money that nice congress in moscow was funded completely by russian sources but in terms of money passing through our books share . we we have not received anything now. one point i would have happily accepted so that we said we did she could i would grant that but it's really since $242015.00. there's not even efforts to seek funding from the russians chuck asterisk in terms of money coming into this organization. from russia. we've never accepted any money and they're

really given any money is another way to put it. let's talk up to carlson about donald trump you'll get your vote in november willie. probably a serial liar who paid off a porn actress to keep quiet becomes the standard bearer for the christian right in america i don't get it is this the best you can do sadly it may be the best you can do right now given the way the american political system works donald trump is a flawed human being by all of us but his flaws are a little more flagrant some. last and he has done a superb job somewhat amazingly to promote the pro-life agenda that got him portion that. far more consistently than any other. president before and for that you're prepared to you know prepared to look away i mean this

is a man so crooked where he's hand picked senior assistance that 6 of them have face criminal charges the president has authored more than 20000 false or misleading statements since he went to the way that's according to the washington post a bipartisan senate report last week on his campaign connections with russia actually described the president and associates of his campaign as often incapable of candor and both republicans and democrats signed off on that what more does trump have to do to lose the support of groups like yours. well the bill stopped if he stopped. it lamenting policies regulations are opposing laws involved in foreign policy such as the united nations stocks are supporting family and life. we lose our support. our american system is a very strong one i am some ways wish we had a european multi-party system but it would be

a lot is here right now donald trump is the is the only game in town and he's a fool again else lot of character but on these issues he's done remarkably well and is. better than i anticipated 4 years ago that's because on a final thought your morality seems very much like a movable ceased on the one hand you condemn l g b t activities because you say that to morrow but you're prepared to really look away from some of the egregious faults of donald trump and his team in the white house doesn't add up does it your very selective about morality and you. i'm selective on what i do focus on i will grant that yes there's a tunnel vision i'm focused on the protection and promotion of the natural family the family farm by a man and a woman marriage their relationship to 2 of the relatives of the past is the future

why because that's where children come from in unstable homes so structure all the research and all of human history best advice that's the best place to raise children what the west in particular faces a childless true church or as the sexual gender is going forward. donald trump is a flawed human being is a flawed liberal leader but he's the only option there is right now and he's done a better job than anticipated for years i don't consider that i'm selective morality i think i'm fairly focused. but. it's an imperfect world and you have to make hard choices in an imperfect world and you're not making it any more perfect by making those choices i you know i think i think i have and i hope i am contributing to a better. outcomes and thanks very much for being

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