pete. rock n. roll the romance of stolen beethoven. more self-conscious always. with the biggest composer of all time i can't begin to imagine a world class horn player sailing with us on a sticky journey of discovery. without a. start september 16th t.w. . have done a better job in terms of family and he has done oh sure. someone amazingly to promote the pro-life people alone. in their bedrooms were. real and generally these days america's religious rights are in the spotlight as they support donald trump's spin to get a 2nd term in the white house about activities on the confines of the u.s.

numerous groups are active in europe and elsewhere seeking to overturn a whole raft of lords for the legalized among other things abortion and gay marriage the world congress of families provides a powerful platform for such groups and this week one of it's found those alan carlson joins me from rockford illinois what lies behind his close connections with russia and why won't he leave the gay community. alan carlson welcome to conflict. the world congress of families is a very benign name for a group that's credited with inflicting considerable misery on many people around the world these days the southern poverty law center which has tracked your movement for a very long time since you're one of the key driving forces behind the religious

right's global export of homophobia and classifies you as a hate group do you wear that with pride i don't accept the label at all not we're not a group at all the southern poverty law center has its own agenda its own fundraising goals and it distorts the truth of events i see as a pro se only group yes as a pro-life group we are firm understandings of the natural family of family based and focused on the procreation and bearing of children and we see that as. a thing that family style that family form is vital to the future of the human race so why is it then the conferences have frequently featured plenty of hate speech haven't they let me quote some of them to you tell the l g p t tolerance tyrants this lavender mafia these homo fascists these rainbow radicals that they're not welcome to promote their anti religious and anti civilizational

propaganda this was from one of your speakers in tbilisi may 26th 18 that certainly fits the hate speech bill doesn't it i don't think someone i think it talks some article a conflict over only different views of human life and human nature. and it also reflects the reality that the l.g.b. table but in some places and in some ways and sometimes has become very. actually based has focused very much on attacking its opponents and dehumanizing them so that they have a halo now about. are there the hate groups now are they well certainly they they they bear some of the characteristics of being a hate group yes they do not listen to arguments they do not respond to rational arguments they seek to silence people and they seek the silence particularly those who are motivated by religious faith so i yes there is something close to 8

replaced though i'm not. propaganda pieces saying that well you have had frequent speaker joe conferences scott lively the man who proclaims that gay people were responsible for the holocaust and the rwandan genocide he was sued in u.s. district court for his role in promoting an anti-gay law in uganda and the judge ruled the case couldn't be tried in the u.s. but his comments were highly constructive if scott lively he said it added a did a vicious and frightening campaign of repression of. people in uganda this crackpot bigotry added could be brushed aside as pathetic except for the terrible harm it can cause a question before the court is not whether the defendant's actions in aiding and abetting efforts to demonize intimidate an injury l g b t people in uganda constitute violations of international law they do that really sums up what you and your friends are about doesn't it crackpot bigotry the words

of a u.s. district judge well scott likely has not been that close of a friendship to this book but it is true it through something of a mid-air one of my colleagues invited him to a planning meeting and he was there i certainly know it's true i'm not sure that i think scott goes too far and has gone too far so i don't think you're dealing with a representative person of our of our movement or organization i think scott's work pushes the. too far and i am not i don't affirm it but you have been repudiated him in the past have you. well actually i have i have put out a saying saying jacki what i said in a number of interviews that is claims to have influenced policy in places like uganda and russia i said i just don't think are true this is just one example as i said the of the rhetoric used by you stuff designed to inspire fear and hatred of homosexuals isn't that in 2014 the

w c f claim that it's cofa civic dialogue that it had never taken a position for or against so called sodomy laws nor had it attempted to roll back the rights gained by these individuals that was pure nonsense wasn't it the human dignity trust claims that through your support fandy gay legislation you helped turn gays in many countries into outlaws outside the protection of the law was that your aim. i don't know any case where we had any direct role or even that perhaps any direct role at least in such changes is true we have never taken a formal view on i guess or caught at a sodomy laws and in fact my main my focus and my concern when i was certainly right was leaving the organization i retired now but when i was leaving the organization my focus was always on the protection of natural marriage and the understanding is that by and large leaving people alone. in their bedrooms was was

perfectly legitimate. what it became an issue is whether they wanted to make public policy building around or truly family farms as some call it i would call it as a builder of rejection of the natural family model and the reason a big state should support that and that rattle alone because that's where children come from that's where children are born it's where stable relationships between mothers and fathers are really important finally important to the future of their nations and if you're the children that's been our focus and i think you'd be looking at sort of what i recall some say. not of the main message but maybe some extreme edges of things where. i just don't accept the argument where you say you have never attempted and i was ation says it's never attempted to

roll back the rights gained by the community the w.c.s. never has never will advocate for any policy that bring harm to innocent individuals but one of your leading lights in africa to raise oka for former w c f person of the year as being key in trying to roll back al g.b.t. rights in africa she strongly supported the gay cost anti-gay law in nigeria and this is a law that not only mandated long jail sentences for gay sex but banned gay people from meeting in groups that's policing the bedroom isn't it and that's what she stood for up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex if you feel good about that. well if you get him out is teresa's a good roman catholic and she's been working to defend and protect. the christian understanding of marriage and. and defend and protect our children and she's been there and i don't like on that hasn't she done to carlson she's been

pushing for laws that provide for up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex i'm asking you whether you approve of that so i approve of and i sodomy laws of the united states joe nigeria deal with its own issues i think you may be exaggerating her views on some of those things but let's assume that they're correct again i'm. certainly not your is a different circumstance a different situation different point in its history that we are today so. i will i will say that the research has been a friend of the of the movement. and. i'll just leave it at that and you think it would be fair for somebody to spend 10 years in jail because they love someone of the same sex i think it would be fair that society and law reinforces a protection defends the natural family and that reinforces

a protection defense children and protects them from sexual behaviors but you're not healthy for the children you're not on seeing the question the carson you like to play something you like to play semantic games up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex whose business is that it's not your business somebody is business who people love is it is an american city right here you're right it's not my best. but you've spent many many years trying to get people to police sexuality personal sexuality to protect children yes. that's because nowhere are they casualties your organization has produced more power than in russia your major partner in china to crack down on the gay 'd community where you've been incredibly i would say even brutally successful 5 years after russia passed its law against gay propaganda

a law that you personally in the w.c.s. delighted in helping to construct hate crimes against lesbian gay bisexual and transgender people were reported to have doubled do you consider that a good achievement. i'm think you're drawing some conclusions or that may or may not be correct the 2 may not be related. to law in russia which again i think was related and focused on russians situations and russian issues and russian historical developments were focused on the protection of children not authorize sure encourage in a directory of an indirect way. 8 actions or to describe it it said no you cannot assist propagandize. sexual radical or supporters that's a chair but whether you intended it or not in the 6 years after this law was passed

police in the semi autonomous region of chechnya felt chechnya felt empowered to launch a massive wave of unlawful detentions beatings and ritual humiliations of men presumed to be gay police kicked them with booted feet beat them with sticks and pipes and tortured several with electric shocks. why don't you stand up for their rights do you think that's a good thing for police to do with gays. a no i don't and i don't think the right my russian friends would say that was the way the law was intended to be implemented as i don't think it was right and they say that in public and why don't you say that in public they have to say it in public i just yeah but why didn't you say it before i actually have when i've been asked the question i mean a few years ago the british actor in mckellen visited moscow he required a bodyguard as he pointed out for one reason only he's gay and that's the kind of

russia you praise isn't it the one that presents such a threat to the l g b t community. i present russia this has come out. a rough terrible period known as communism a terrible century of the 20th century massive period of death from slaughter if you logical conflict. followed by a period when they tried western liberalism not the good kind of western liberalism or the bad track and that left everything run loose and free collapse so they've been trying to put things back together again. and i think there's a pretty good job. in the last 1520 years. not perfect. certainly has not written the laws that they have but most of them look. big improvement for russia they have done a better job in terms of protecting family and i think children from crete from

mercian and the structural sexuality that's not healthy for the children as a path that really goes up and the fact that the kremlin uses laws to silence l g b t activist suppress peaceful protests and sense a online expression is not your concern. well you say those things i'm dying not sure what specifics you're talking about it is my concern to that they try to do this as as and as reasonable and honorable way as they can sometimes that doesn't happen i grant that but i can't sit here and. condemn her precise specifics which i have not had a chance to look at it well has a specific been in 2014 just off the russia had seized crimea and an operational most universally condemned you know managing director at the time larry jacobs declare i think russia is the hope for the world right now to be clear about the

context russia had just bought through an international border and an active staggering state aggression and the w c f with similar tenuously telling the world what a great country russia was you happy that you become a fully fledged p.r. agency for the kremlin. i was very unhappy for personal w.c.s. reasons about the wii u. earlier and incursion the invasion with the i am actually a sion of of the crimea why we had planned a world congress a family session in moscow for over 2014 where we were going to be the primary sponsor and that was on its way to happening the invasion of the crimea took place sanctions were imposed by the united states and by european union and those sanctions some of them were targeted at people who were involved in the russian

meeting we had to cancel our there's a patient you went along anyway you went to you you know people went along anyway and you name the congress something different. i wasn't there and i had you know people date you had people who went by she some some of my allies did none of them were actual employees of my organization some were contractors who were some of the essence faces on set or would be an example that was always a contractor not a white none of our employees well why did you not stand up and condemn the repression that followed russia's siege of crimea. you set yourself up as as a more hands on i say as if one has to choose one's issue is i'm a historian i'm a story in a modern europe and i understand the complicated history behind. relationship treat crimea ukraine russia belarus and the old soviet empire.

now i wish they had not done so and sacked i was asked i did but i. made my issues i've tried to stay focused on the family issues. and like to say my own. potential to take part in that moscow congress which i didn't want to do very much was spoilt by the invasion of the crimea and so i regret it for a very personal reasons you don't seem to regret what your own government has been talking about which is that the russian authorities in occupied crimea were continuing and are continuing to persecute and intimidate minority religious congregations you of course said nothing about that either you seem to manage a kind of tunnel visioned up to carlson in which you don't look at the bigger picture you're simply interested in your own rights and you don't care whether people repress others or create unfair conditions for them you simply focused on

your own issue. you preach a kind of morality to the rest of the world but what's what's moral about the russians persecuting and intimidating minority religious congregations and you staying silent about that what's moral about that. first of all i say i would agree with you i do have a kind of a tunnel vision in terms of the public at of the extent of the work i've done i don't reject them because one started ones once one starts wandering into other questions related questions then there others are now there's another christian you lose your focus and no one's going to pay attention so yes i do have a kind of a tunnel vision on the. other side of the blind eye to to repression on a grand scale just to advance your own rather not a definition of what you think a family should be you have no redlines nobody's to shady tomorrow to cook it for you as long as they're on your side when it comes to the family your happy to deal

with the how right well i wouldn't say that there's certainly there are lies or some people i don't deal with and you mentioned scott lightly i made it very clear i did want to ask out lightly involved in our work going forward. so i know there are lots and. there with assets in politics your alliances are with sometimes with people whose maybe you're whose motives are not pure that's all objects when you collect a vote for some from someone for political for other oluseyi like cancer there and be fully analyze what lays behind that but if you care about humanity you would you would on the lies that if you cared about religious freedom you would care about what the russians have been doing to persecute religious minorities in crimea but you've never spoken publicly about that. well that's your vast true but

i let's let's let's go with what you just set what we have been joe and i think one of the things our involvement in russia has done has been to change the trajectory of the russian orthodox church which. prior to about 20 years ago was very inward looking. just focused on its own agenda its own the ology its own relationships i think we have helped to bring the russian orthodox church into a new kind of a victim in essence if human is a move. of. involving working together for the 1st time. with roman catholics with protestants with it even more immense the latter day saints church on a pro-family pro-life agenda and i think it's it's been a dramatic change in the look of the orthodox church how they still jealously

protect their own privileges and interests in russia i am standing up i think that's loosening up and i hope maybe we've had some effect and help in doing but then again you know not interested in any of that. i'm interested in all of it but i also understand the limits of my own involvement in these things how much money of the russians given you know group not a single dime no not in terms of sponsorship not in terms of funding you know some of your congresses never received any money that nice congress in moscow was funded completely by russian sources but in terms of money passing through our books share . we we have not received anything now. one point i would have happily accepted so that we said we did she get i would grant that but it's really since $242015.00. there's not even efforts to seek

funding from the russians chuck bass or is in terms of money coming into this organization. from russia. we've never accepted any money and they're really given any money is not the way to put it. let's talk to carson about donald trump he'll get your vote in november willie. probably a serial liar who paid off a porn actress to keep quiet becomes the standard bearer for the christian right in america i don't get it is this the best you can do sadly it may be the best you can do right now given the way the american political system works donald trump is a flawed human being i all of a split his flaws are a little more flagrant so. with that said he has done a superb job somewhat amazingly to promote the pro-life agenda to get the importance of that. far more consistently than any other.

president before and for that you're prepared to you're prepared to look away i mean this is a man so crooked to his hand-picked senior assistants that 6 of them have faced criminal charges the president has authored more than 20000 false or misleading statements since he went to the white house according to the washington post a bipartisan senate report last week on his campaign connections with russia actually described the president and associates of his campaign as often incapable of candor and both republicans and democrats signed off on that what more does trump have to do to lose the support of groups like yours. well if you've been stopped if you stopped. doing. it lamenting policies regulations. laws involved in foreign policy such as the united nations these stocks are still pouring family and life. we lose our support. our american

system is a very strong one i in some ways wish we had a european multi-party system a lot is here right now. is the is the only game in town and he's a fool again else lot of character but on these issues he's done remarkably well and he's been better than i anticipated 4 years ago that's causing a final thought your morality seems very much like a movable ceased on the one hand you condemn l g b t activities because you say that's a morrow but and you're prepared to really look away from some of the egregious faults of donald trump and his team in the white house doesn't add up doesn't your very selective about morality and you. i'm selective on what i do focus on i will grant that yes there's a tunnel vision i'm focused on the action and promotion of the natural family

a family farm by a man and a woman marriage their relationship to 2 of the relatives of the past is the future why because that's where children come from in unstable homes so structure all the research and all of human history best advice that's the best place to raise children what the west in particular faces a childless true which are as the sexual genders going forward. donald trump is a flawed human being is a flawed literal leader but he's the only option there is right now and he's done a better job than anticipated for years i don't consider that i'm selective morality i think i'm fairly focused. but. it's an imperfect world and you have to make hard choices in an imperfect world and you're not making it any more perfect by making those choices i. think i think i have and i

hope i am contributing to a better. outcome than thanks very much for being a comfort zone. however there is a shelf. thanks .

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beethoven 202250th anniversary year on do you know. this is deja vu news live from the lead a military grade nerve agent was used to poison a leading critic of the kremlin that according to the german chancellor the russian opposition figure election of all remains in a coma in a berlin hospital we'll have analysis from our correspondents also coming up. called verdict of innocent in slovakia and on my.