because that one group with the i have serious problems on a personal level and i was unable to live there once i'm going to. want to know their story and feel like good stirfry in promotable information for more rights. such. a geo political storm is brewing in the eastern mediterranean and strangely enough it's 2 nato allies that are stoking the tensions greece and turkey have sent warships to an area southwest of cyprus in an effort to reinforce their claims to oil and gas resources in the area fred says dispatched its own naval vessel in support of greece with turkey already at odds with france and other middle eastern powers over libya could everyone's military adventurism spark a wider escalation our title today turkey versus greece is anyone willing to risk

for more. than. the minimum. hello and welcome to to the point and here are our guests. is an expert on turkish foreign policy and a fellow at the robert bosch academy and berlin and he says in this conflict greece is using the language of international law and european solidarity and turkey's using language of fair sharing of mediterranean resources and coercive diplomacy it's also a pleasure to welcome chapatis to me i he works for dogs of l.f. and he is convinced that unlike turkey's adventurous regional ambitions in recent years its foreign policy regarding the eastern mediterranean is following its traditional line and we're also very glad to have with us yes i'm an aggie and she is a freelancer. journalist from hamburg who works mainly with the a r e

d network she says everyone's hardline approach in the eastern mediterranean is part of his symbolic politics with which he tries to distract from domestic problems in the current conflict he's taking this strategy too far so let me start out with you char and get your take on how come all stumble this situation really is in mid august greek and turkish warships actually collided in the eastern mediterranean we're hearing some pretty martial rhetoric and some experts are saying this in fact is the highest level of tension we have seen between these 2 countries since 1974 would you see it that way. the way that you put it as combustible i think is the way a way to use it and turkey in the past when it comes to the. matters regarding the egypt see on the mediterranean. never. had

a 2nd thought about engaging with greece if the use of force is necessary so we've seen as you pointed out in cyprus that everybody thought turkey was bluffing regarding that we've seen that almost 2 countries at the brink of war in 1996 when there was this almost military escalation between the 2 countries over a small land mass of small islands on the ija sea. right now we're seeing. peterhof that and if we look at the turkish foreign policy regarding the maritime matters over the area. there were changed its stance over that. and since it doesn't recognize the u.n. called nation on the sea of law which part of it turkey is not and this is escalating the situation because of the maritime borders and territorial waters and where do you draw the lines so. and you always said it's

a war if greece goes beyond the blood because basically what greece is claiming by extending its 3rd story walters is to kind of corner toward q. over a point and turkey just is not willing to accept the cure is willing to use of force if necessary i don't see a war like about so maybe so yes i mean we're hearing this is part of a longstanding pattern. is telling us would you say it's more explosive than past incidents in that part or. in relation to greece it is explosive then his. policy and his for tom ricks has been. is the more explosive when we look at the bigger picture of turkey's foreign policy. dangerous it's unprecedented because he's risking to nato allies going to walk the sea really mean that i'm not sure i don't think turkey actually

once was i think turkey knows very well that international mediation will step in turkey knows that the e.u. will make efforts that germany will make that the u.s. even though they have their own issues at the moment will also not want this conflict so i think is using his aggressive rhetorics because it always helps him domestically but that at the same time he is relying on international diplomacy as we can see in. his using aggressive rhetoric says foreign minister has expressed at the same time that turkey is ready fun to go she ation so. so let me come back. to what you said in your opening statement about the language of international law and fair sharing of mediterranean resources as we heard there from char to both

sides citing international maritime law law of the sea and so on turkey says greece is manipulating international law to hem turkey right to oil and gas resources in the mediterranean to a very small corner of the gulf of antalya but is that even possible isn't international law clear on this point it's not clear like on the one hand yes it is clear but the international law is also like open till interpretation on different interpretations so in this regard the language that is. using still its reference from the international but with different reference one friends they can refer to argues that it is the it is the main that not the island that got the territorial water that can have the economy exposed. i mean yes we can the international know all things that they do not really sound being the area of course where a country could then explore exactly exactly so given the fact that the greece has

like a very large number of islands in mediterranean i mean i think it's as high as one mile i'm so if everyone claims the exclusive economy that effectively means that turkey is very much you know confined to the gulf and then from the turks perspective this is a. maritime blockade you know it sounds like you know that you have like a very limited very limited area so in this regard this poses actually the has much more continued from turkey sorry. many many things let's not forget that both the turkish parliament in 1940 that declared that if treat greece is going to increase the maritime water from 6 mile to 12 that will be like a cold war so in this. these polls it has more continued it on both of them how like reference point to a different form of legitimacy and here you are right there you see the conflict you know different claim of legitimacy and different idea of what the shape of the

resources should be so charles let me ask you this maritime boundary disputes are hardly a new thing in the eastern mediterranean as you pointed out and in fact generally these disputing claims of cyprus greece and turkey were largely viewed as a local affair but now suddenly france is getting involved why what's changed. i think it has 2 reasons why. it could be and the way i see it way off from the solidarity within the european union. has been pursing an active foreign policy in the middle east recently we've seen what he has been doing in libya and lebanon and so on and so forth so it's on the 100 some sort of act of solidarity to support greece and on the other hand i think the 2nd point is that somehow perhaps. you cannot go about far like you are thinking that

greece is maybe you know small bites for you we're standing behind greece or you cannot go down for. just a minute to be honest with oil and gas prices way down at the moment investors backing out of fossil fuel resources it seems like a strange time to make so much of a fuss over these resources yeah it is a strange time it's actually one of the pic kuli era tease of this conflict that. no one really talks about that i mean some experts talk about it is that. we are actually at a time in history when fossil when we shouldn't compete over. resources and energy but we should compete and discuss how to step out of them and as you say it's. it's very expensive and probably not profitable we don't know yet

how profitable it will be to actually drill for these gas reserves in the is the mediterranean and the whole point is that when we look at the very complicated. maritime law in truth and you just explained that the turkey is. point is not so bad here took a situation is not so bad so if. this issue went to for example an independent international institution or a. trade center they like turkey greece of wouldn't manage to pull off maximum dumont's because yes like this idea that every small little island every small little greek island can declare its own economic zone that probably wouldn't yeah i mean an international probably

wouldn't agree with that and what. turkey's point here so in reality it's not so necessary for our john to be as aggressive as he is he could also step back and rely on national law which obviously he's not willing to do and he's never really been interested which of course underlines the point you made about symbolic politics well just one thing i mean they were talking about. energy as the most people topic but this issue is not that was the energy it's a different form of sovereignty and it's about the job does i mean the fact that you have a country like u.a.e. which has no border through it to the mediterranean like you know doing drilling weeds with griese does not indicate how joe paul did it is a job all the companies and and this program of the reason that france is in the game as well too i mean the french and the turkish tension right now multifold it's

in libya it's in the mediterranean it's in north africa it's in syria so now you have the we sold is playing a lead. like in france i mean. in. iraq so what again you see in a sounds like an assertion of the sphere of influence poll dates. active in this regard the french is not playing as an e.u. members they'd rather a major geopolitical player that has its own interests and that's why i like you know the french and the germans are not seeing eye to eye on quite me no it is a quick follow up question on geopolitics in the past the united states was often seen as a kind of mediator or even guarantor of peace between these 2 nato allies is the reason that this is flaring up also because of the vacuum left by the fact that the trump administration is no longer willing to act as world police shorted the fact that the veteran that left by the us and has not in-field what anyone and anyone

else is like and want to reason that you see kind of this job pull the lever is becoming much more dangerous you see this in the middle east you see it is that is the military and you saw this in in libya as well to jordan is trying to play the role of the mediation and i think like you know. they did. was but in the end i think like you know it will be still the u.s. the day that will step in that just like in a push or at least because at this stage a conflict is unlikely but not on think bill let me ask let's say this did come to an outright conflict with greece even stand a chance against turkey's extremely powerful military i'm not another that military expert and i don't think it will boil down to a total war between the 2 countries where everybody is more belies so it will if even it escalates into some sort of a conflict i think it will be stopped straight away by the international powers and

the sides will be forced to return to the negotiation table as a result of that so i don't imagine like a full scale course of the 2 countries on there any circumstances the fact is that turkey's army is the 2nd strongest in nato and it has been put to increasing use of late. you know over 29000 turkish armed forces launched an offensive into neighboring syria but failed to achieve their ultimate objective ousting dictator bashar al assad in favor of a radical muslim government. turkish soldiers have also been involved in libya's internal fighting on the side of the government. that anticipated to use a natural gas deliveries from president fire has also rose have yet to materialize . this may have prompted turkish president to want to refocus his foreign policy efforts on the eastern mediterranean and its potentially vast natural gas reserves

. had once been building up turkey's armed forces i don't know who's more ships and jet fighters have been encroaching on the territorial waters of neighboring countries as a recent example the turkish vessel was spotted searching for gas in a disputed area of southwestern cyprus. the other one has also used arms deals with russia to turn up the political pressure on nato and he's threatened to let thousands of syrian refugees pass through to europe. what does everyone hope to achieve with his aggressive foreign policy. let me put that question straight away to yes i mean what does the one hope to achieve with the saber rattling not only in the eastern mediterranean but elsewhere as well well elsewhere meaning at home domestically. this saber rattling as we call it has proven to be very. domestic in

this politics aggressive rhetoric this. demonstration of military power this is an idea we won't back down to anyone we want to have anyone tell us what to do. this is. popular with his fellow as with a large parts of the takesh population and his past think don's past experiences have proven that even when casualties are happening as and often syria for example where turkish soldiers are dying regularly there so doesn't. change the fact that these kinds of yeah these kinds of initiatives are popular in tukey because it taps into nationalist sentiments the taps into this idea of being a victim to international powers so am i an add on does need

a boost of popularity because he's in a very difficult position at home we'll come back to that in just a moment but let me ask you this chara you say are the ones been following the traditional course in the eastern mediterranean but what about in syria and in libya is the expansionism something different they are. the main rhetoric that the turkish government and i read on is using regarding syria and libya is let me focus on syria 1st it was never about an expansionist idea or just reflecting the official discourse of course it was more of a security issue that i could agree to an extent so in that sons when there is a war happening at your border and if you have like 4000000 refugees in your country that you have to take in the dangerous situation the conflict situation going on over there is naturally affecting turkey's. regarding syria

so that the operation could be seen when it's done within that perspective when it comes to libya that's a whole another story both. say that as god was bored to earlier. metzer all future of political influence in the region turkey has. been pushing for it slightly in the from the jirga fees. sometimes getting what they want sometimes it's not as successful as the pope's let's talk a little bit about the european role in all of this because as all of you have mentioned europe has tried to mediate to some degree particularly angle americal because germany does now have the european union's rotating presidency how effective has that been and does europe face in some ways conflicting loyalties by virtue of the fact that greece is not only a nato ally but also a member of the e.u.

whereas turkey of course is only a nato ally well. i mean germany tried to do like a service in libya and also in eastern mediterranean as well to me germany was a country that intelligent conference on libya as well too and unfortunately it hasn't produced much one of the major reason for this that it hasn't produced more because you have an european proxy war taking place in libya as well to be been friends and italy's in a sense that you know we used to think also proxy war in the form of the middle east some powers but the in libya you have like basically france and italy supporting different signs of the telling position is much closer to to the turkish positioned the french position was that going to visit the only in line with egypt and united arab emirates unlikeness in support of the war law highly for half that in there and i think the prospect is prospects for some form of success is higher

for a very simple reason we're not talking about the european neighborhood we're talking about europe so a conflict not in european neighborhood a conflict within the euro because right now once again you have like you know treat european countries that has been deeply involved france cyprus and agrees but also like turkey which is that the nature of member but at same time and i mean still officially and you can do that even though it's going nowhere so if the trouble is if germany plays the role of the e.u. member rather than and mediator then you know it will have less influence to bring decides to table because it will be part of the. trouble so i think in these got airfare a mediator role is a great service that germany can do party given the fact right now there's a void left by the u.s. and no one is going to step in so very briefly if you would sanctions lot of talk right now about possibly imposing sanctions on turkey or would that work with they be effective and do you think it'll happen briefly i think it would it's on like

the to have happen but even if it happens it will much change the behavior of draghi if any. if you will just like you know. basically you know. it's. on his good instructors you yes me let me ask you this. we just heard from once more about the enormous long running ambivalence that the european union has had about moving forward on any form of of accession membership for turkey how does that pushed turkey into this confrontational stance essentially pushed turkey out of the western orbit and i mean the very shot and yes it has done so for a very long time because i don't know if a past decade probably even longer no one in turkey believes still that the european union has any interest and accepting them so they lost interest

in that a long time ago i would say politically but also in the minds of people let us take a very quick look at the domestic situation in turkey after one and his cape a party have engaged in severe repression at home particularly when confronted with perceived threats. after the failed coup attempt against him in july 26th president early one had tens of thousands of dissidents arrested and declared terrorists. also detained for $170.00 domestic and foreign journalists liked an easy job a german citizen who was imprisoned without charges for an entire year. better one almost seems to antagonize europe and the west deliberately his a.k.p. is considering leaving an international convention for combating violence against women as well as lifting penalties on sexual abuse of underage girls if

a marriage results in july he had the how he is sophia in istanbul converted back to a functioning mosque at one time that was christendom's largest church and for decades and you see him. step by step he's been moving away from the secular ideals of modern turkey's founder come out a turk is everyone pushing turkey towards an islamic dictatorship. so yes i mean you told us that these symbolic gestures things like converting the hog haggis sophia mosque are in fact a sign to distract from domestic problems what's the biggest domestic challenge that one currently faces with the financial crisis obviously that the country has been suffering from for many years that's getting less. is at a historic low unemployment is rising food prices are going up and cause as everyone else corona the koran crisis has made things wow us you say saber rattling

is sometimes quite effective at home and generating support what about curtailing women's rights. are you asking about it's effective yet am. depends on who you ask. for the cons of a tive parts of the population. the soul is thumble convention is seen as something that diminishes families and you know conservative ideas about how women should live so. yeah. so it's a president everyone's playing to his base. how's domestic repression worked to silence the political opposition and what if anything could actually topple anyone from power. i think. the main problem is not with the economy economy is one of the biggest problems i think the government's biggest problem is

to actually remain in power and all the developments that we've seen in the past 5 years are actually a reflection off the government facing the consequences of wrong moves and trying to recover it with taking some steps further in order to be able to remain in power we've seen that with. and now we're seeing that with greece so nationalism is always an easy card to play and. so let me come back to. ask you how far you think are the one will go and who will be the loser turkey or europe. if that will face each other the countries with the. loser because in the. major part. of the 2. like no major economy unlike you know also the major and the same. europe as well.

as biggest economies i mean the largest market for sharkey i mean there's like around 6000000 troops living you have people. there if you're. going to look at the you know once the winner thank you very much to all of you and thanks to you out there see you soon. for the. going to be.

glued. to. the riches of the earth. and jobs for everyone. the promise of lasting prosperity. for mcmurray canada. to the top one of the planet's largest oil reserves. but what should've been a sensationally lucky strike turned into a nightmare. dark even. in 15 minutes on d w. a a a a

a. seemingly against fear. bellary most of the peaceful mass protests are continue despite the arrests of use of force and threats from oif artists in minsk who courageously and creatively tell the regime you can't intimidate us any mob sunkist on the law in 90 minutes on w. in the height of climate change. africa's most of. what's in store. for the future. e.w. dot com for the major cities the multimedia insight. culture. has

been robbed of their soul that's what are people experiences when their heritage is taken from them countless cultural artifacts were stolen from africa by colonialists carted off to europe. what should be done with the stone north from africa. stolen soul starts september 7th on t.w. . frankfurt. international gateway to the best connection self road and rail. located in the heart of europe you are connected to the whole world. experience outstanding shopping and dining offers and trialling services. biala gassed at frankfurt airport city managed by from a bought. this

is g.w. news live from berlin russia denies any involvement in the poisoning of the opposition leader alexei navalny germany says it has proof that the politician was poisoned with a toxic nerve agent about these supporters say this goes right to the time to go a little scoop don't know if there is 0 possibility that social parisian could have been.