right now then we're spending time on talking about our difficult relationship with russia and i also want to again the remotest arc of the relationship with russia of course and i said you're you're increasing reaction on it ties with russia it is a complex relationship you know our american friends have an ocean between them and russia we don't we have to join and shared history russia is not going to go away and the decision about russia may be influenced by us but the russian position so we are talking about peace in libya you need to talk with russia we're talking about peace and syria like it or not you need to talk with russia and there are many other aspects so we are trying so dialogue that we dialogue no matter why we have dialogue or not very much to the causes no matter what russia doesn't know we this is very important to me because it's really what i believe in is that we are in a world where apparently many of the steps of schools are not binding countries like

russia unfortunately even sometimes countries that we are more close to so germany is in the central position geographically in europe it's the most important economy we are not you know projecting military problem so we are we need to rely on the willingness and ability to apply by those rules and that's what we are trying so you cannot cut off the dialogue with russia but you need to be very clear in that and that's what we are let's talk about another country where you have a lot of dialogue we have to mention let's go to china now also in the news for its continued infringement of human rights and rule of law similar to russia in a speech before the parliament on september 10th you said the following human rights are a central element of our china policy how's that working out for the pro-democracy protesters in hong kong what we are. and i hope that i'm not going no it's not i'm not intending to to criticize any of our european partners but

to really think sometimes. we need as a government to explain more what we are doing as think that germany is maybe the only relevant country right now that is addressing human rights issues with china on every high level meetings that we are having sometimes we do that publicly sometimes don't we don't do that publicly because we're talking about individual cases we haven't established human rights dialogue and and quite frankly we tried to celebrate you would china some of the in order to generate more european unity also on human rights but how but until about a message that you are sending that you might have the dialogue but the message the real message that you're sending how can china really believe that you are serious on human rights when in every state visit you show up with

a huge business delegation and i'd just like to go to the last one with the german chancellor angela merkel that was in september of 2019 where amid the crackdown on the pro-democracy protesters in hong kong she sat along the tinies premier and in her visit it was crowned by overseeing the signing of 13 business deals between german and chinese executives in the great hall of the people in tiananmen square is a trade off for human rights because that's what it looks like i don't think that it looks like that i don't see that this is a contradiction i mean if if if the policy would be to completely exclude trial from political landscape and from our political thinking. well i think we are not going to serve our interests and i am very concerned that this is going to happen if we are live listening to some of the very

inflammatory rhetoric right now we need to wipe falling back into the logic of a new cold war but you ask about the effectiveness of our policies and i can tell you that there are many cases and some are prominent cases like the widow of the nobel prize winner who came into freedom and could leave the country because of very very high level interventions from germany and their back not always the case they're there and i'd like to i'd like to bring in i just want to say is that there is. and i mean we cannot ignore that there is a temptation for many leaders around the world. not to do that what we're doing a from a government because they believe that if they don't address human rights issues that may be because owing to the stark honestly and that's not what we're doing and i'm very proud of philosophically speaking when we look at your overall diplomatic strategy we have for example your economy minister saying just back in july in

a conversation with politico he said i still believe in transformation through trade transformation through trade when it comes to china your own german industry association has come out and said they published a paper last year calling for a tougher approach to china their message was the west's strategy for opening tyner has failed you know this is a wake up call that what they have said is going to be the case of china isn't it isn't both outdated and naive to think you're going to have transformation they're married one is not happening to make one comment because you were all really asking the system on the question of me and my boss cycle mars being members of to social democratic parties so i know you're trying to put me into responsibility for something well you're part of the government does that equate you're part of the government with your christian democratic partners are very i can tell you that. i think we had maybe

a dictate where we were social democrats and christian quit liberal to the greens or whatever. may be too optimistic about the impact of our economic engagement on the ma christie and human rights i think this is very obvious china change that the that guiding policy of soft drink shopping so to bide your time never takes the lead that is over with risp presidency and that's why we are in the middle and that's why i welcome your questions we are in the middle of a debate how to readjust our policy and i think we need to defend or ok with stronger but we shouldn't cut out of our way ties with china you need allies to deal with china absolutely russia you absolutely do let's look at the state of your alliances right now the u.s. is pulling $12000.00 troops out of germany is reportedly because you didn't meet your defense spending also the nato 2 percent goal of g.d.p. for dispense spending what does that say about the state of your diplomacy that

this announcement reportedly 1st of all caught you by surprise shouldn't you have seen it coming from the us up why he said they would well there would be consequences well look i mean. we don't believe that reducing troops in germany is an instrument to harm drug money or to castigate trueman those troops the few look carefully about what they are doing they are serving the interests of the united states armed forces and they are part of deterrence where not only germany is benefiting but europe us a whole so we had some problems to understand the logic behind that. but it is to know what the problems understand you're not spending 2 percent of g.d.p. you're not on track to spending 2 percent of g.d.p. this is a commitment that you made to your allies at a nato summit in wales and 2014 in a commitment that if you don't appear to be intent on fulfilling that well the

numbers of the appropriations that we made in terms of defense spending there are no secret there were known in washington so if they look at what we're doing it's clear that we are on that we are on track to quote you that we are massively increasing our defense spending but by the way not because somebody in the united states is demanding that from us but because we see that the world is changing that we talked about it russia's getting more sort of we have conflicts in their own neighborhood so that's the reason why we're doing this and so i think we cannot neglect that we have political differences that it's a very you know i want some element of 3 years or 8 this is a unique style of the american president but the pacers of our relationship is stronger than but ultimately between us that mr alternately when we look at the big picture when we look at the broad picture when we look at the actions not just the

talk but the actions that your government and your country is taking your adhering to deals and russia the north stream to project which is probably one of your what you want us to restart the what. we discussed i'm also you have you have a very robust trade relationship with china that is increasing countries where there are open human rights offenders. but you're not fulfilling your commitments to allies like nato for example when it comes to increase in defense spending is this really the way forward look for german diplomacy is this really what takes you into the next decades and beyond look we are late or so we're doing this because of our own interest. it's german fighter plane it's right now is that defining it's a politics guys it's german soldiers who are part of the very high already in their stride task was it a german initiative that we took up and we're going to build and you nato

headquarters so nobody needs to to teach us about how important nato is and i tend to something sometimes our friends and allies i don't want to name countries here but sometimes friends said allies say simply is humans it's a dream we would react in the way we do how how are we doing in this russian world we're not going to be provoked. we did not cutting our dialogue and the networks that we have been building this is important for them so i'm i'm happy to take some blame there sometimes disappointment people sometimes have that strange ideas that it's weakness not to respond in kind but we are the force that is keeping all of this together chairman minister of state nelson and thank you for joining us on conflicts and thank you so much.

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is the w. news live from berlin more than 10000 migrants including children are still sleeping on the streets of carlin's island of less boss after a fire destroyed their refugee camp police are trying to move them into a new tent city but many don't want to go also coming up. new migrant arrivals on the canary islands us thousands of refugees continue risking their lives on the atlantic ocean to get. legendary not to be forced to close because of the.