and all over the world. it's very complicated these people go to great lengths to hide the method and then if you have like like a couple of dozen people hunting them down and that's like definitely not going to work and i think you know other issues just on that quickly is that if something is happening outside of the united states the united states government is going to be less interested in it it doesn't mean that it's not going to be interested in the illegal activity but if people are laundering money in the congo that's not going to be high on the united states government's list and i think that they also have this problem that they have a very large financial services sector which is a very lucrative business in the united states the biggest banks in the world are all american banks and they make a lot of money by shifting money around the world i think you know it has to be said there are plenty of legitimate reasons to be transferring money in these. around the world for companies and governments and so forth so it's very difficult to keep track of it all but i don't think that they have

a real you know baked in incentive to go after what you know happening in the 3rd world so let's talk about europe's incentive because in fact the european commission has had quite a bit to say on money laundering in the last few years claims to want to do a great deal more to crack down and yet the world's tax havens including to some leading european centers like the netherlands switzerland ireland lexan borg play a huge role in the machinery of the money laundering system so clearly this is an area where we need a true european approach also a global approach but how likely are we to get that at a time where in essence we're seeing d. globalization and a retreat from multi-lateralism well in europe it's also worth remembering that john klobuchar who was president of the european commission was also the finance minister and prime minister of luxembourg for 20 years and oversaw many of these.

activities up until 2014 when he became the president of the european commission and that didn't halt his rise i think that there have been some reforms in europe there are tougher controls on a lot of the tax havens for example but the core issue here is that the people who are doing this are always one step ahead they will always find a new way to undermine the system or at least that's been the history of it and the people who are policing it are often civil servants who do not have the resources they often don't have the vision to go after these things and it's only until these types of stories come to light that people take a 2nd look at it and say well we need to get that under control and unfortunately the pattern has been you get this problem under control and then they find another way to do exactly the same thing so i think this is this is the dynamic that needs to you know change the debate in germany currently holds the rotating presidency of the financial action task force which is in fact one of the leading multilateral

institutions trying to get this problem under control but some critics say that germany itself is too lax when it comes to illicit transactions is that right. yes i think unfortunately this latest findings all phosphate and others have proven that germany is too lax i mean deutsche bank plays a very prominent role in in money laundering according to these i think off the 2 trillion $1.01 about half west somehow gone through dutch about at some point i mean so it was one of the biggest players in this and it's germany's biggest bank germany's old one of germany's oldest and biggest banks so surely that shows that japanese has been too lax let's dive deeper in the role of a bank that in fact once was the titan of germany's financial sector. has been the topic of prior reports of dubious dealings.

from the flagship of german business to a scandal group deutsche bank rather than success stories dark businesses keep coming to light one of the biggest scandals banks role in the 2007 financial crisis the u.s. judicial rehan to the company a fine of more than $7000000000.00 for dubious mortgage transactions it accused the bank of having contributed to the real estate crisis. in 2013 the e.u. commission imposed a fine of 1700000000 euros on 6 major banks for manipulating important reference interest rates such as euro board and leave. bank was one of them. the russian affair came to light in 2015 bank customers are said to have laundered around $10000000000.00 of illegal earnings in russian rubles through the financial centers of moscow new york and london. u.s.

president donald trump has also been a special client of deutsche bank for more than 20 years with his real estate financed by the bank he also did business with kremlin associated russian oligarchs . how corrupt is deutsch about. past that question straight on do you clearly dodge about its business model has involved a lot of smoke and mirrors your opening statement said the bank was just beginning to recover really. day that's a good time at the beginning of the year the price did actually rise which hasn't happened in the minutes seemed that fine was stabilizing but then of course $2.00 things happened one was the crisis which which which hits the fan quite badly. this thing be faced revelation so it doesn't really look as if stabilising anytime

soon so matthew recover. in share price is one part of the issue but of course to recover is also a question of whether they can recover internally from what you described as a very problematic corporate culture where is that coming from well it just comes from the history of the bay quite frankly i mean this is nothing new there have been you know books written about the corruption at deutsche bank. and it continues you know if you a few years ago i reported on a story where you had the senior people in the bank ordering the spying on a on a shareholder who was there was a gadfly shareholder who was making trouble and they hired a security firm to go and spying on him and his vacation home in spain of even rented the house i mean these are extraordinary measures that they've gone to over the years and there's just one thing after another if you look at any major financial scandal in germany over the past 50 years you can bet that deutsche bank will be right in the middle you see signs of recovery in the word well i think you

know if you could talk about the share price is $1.00 thing 10 years ago the share price was at about $50.00 euros it's now at about 6 year as i think that there are serious concerns about the health of the bank still you know it's still losing money so you know i think that it is it is a problem for the german government when i was covering wall street a decade ago during the financial crisis the other banks in the u.s. were always pointing to george bank and saying if it weren't for the german government standing behind george bank they would definitely need a bailout and i think you know this is always sort of the unsaid thing is that everybody knows that the german government will backdoor to bank up at the end of the day because it's just too big to fail it literally too big to fail so down a trap or one a long term customer of mentioned in the fin. is donald trump and buzz feed news research identifies around 1300 to dubious real estate

transactions in. apartments in trump own buildings so does that make the president of the united states complicit in these transactions is he in violation of anti monkey money laundering laws i don't know if i can like absolute the. value of that . do tend to fit the theme in these fires but also as i see you said like before long before that a lot of his business transactions are connected to gangsters to money on growth to most of those to people from eastern europe and eurasia. definitely of trying to inject money into the us market you would give some examples in the fives i like people who definitely didn't get their money from like honest work by apartments and you have like a story from boston from last year that laid out in detail how he tried to like finance a tom-tom on most college gift the biggest. so they're like lots of lots of things

that he's doing with the help of the little bank that are definitely not not really key message you investigative journalists and also some lawyers have long contended that the smoking gun in trump's relations with russia is in fact financial to the fin send it leaks offer any proof of that well they certainly offer some indication that there is more than meets the eye and i think this is the reason that trump has been so forceful in trying to prevent investigators in the united states from getting either his tax returns or his financial really records related to georgia bacon has to be said it's not just the deutsche bank did business with donald trump they were the only bank he was willing to lend him money when all of the other major lenders in the united states said you know there's no way we're giving this guy any more money so they have a i think also a lot to answer for here so it's not in their interest either to really provide this information and you know the courts are. you know dealing with with this issue

as as we speak so you know it's not likely to happen before the election but i think some day we'll know more about both donald trump's finances and the role that georgia banks play let me ask all of you because we're nearly at the end of our time mentally to you described the fact that the banks in some senses are overwhelmed by the sheer volume and complexity of these things artificial intelligence could it pose a possible solution i think could be part of a solution i'm not enough of an expert on you know explaining exactly how that could work but because it is so complex that it involves i think there's so many little pieces of a puzzle i can well imagine playing a big ball thank you one word answer is anything really going to change. if the regulators government all maybe. in the long term now. thank you very much to all of you for being with us thanks to all of you for tuning in see you soon.

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this is deja vu news live from berlin 2 people are wounded one seriously and knife attack in paris police arrest one suspect after the attack which took place near the former office of the satirical magazine charlie adult the scene of an islamist attack in 2015. also coming up a global day of climate action gets underway for.