the coronavirus task force in the white house other points of contention with the position of the supreme court justice seats and abortion as well as the continuing unrest in the country. that's a news update at this hour and say richardson in berlin thanks so much for joining us. combating the corona pandemic. where does research stand. what are scientists learning. background information and. our corona update. from the covert 19 special next on d w. i was issued when i arrived here i slept with 6 people in a room for her 9th. it was hard i was for. i even got white hair.

the german language head nodding off this keeps me and little but you need to entrap let's say you want to know their story the lights are fighting and reliable information for margaret. these are the doctors and nurses at the front line. the 2nd wave is here. spain's capital madrid is europe's new coronavirus hotspot but medical staff say they're ready. they are going to back him on something not in truth i sharpened our treatment here we have more experience in what to do and when to do it. but i don't we're getting patients into intensive care. hair as soon as possible.

and if he were putting them on ventilators earlier than usual. there is some good news the speed of new infections in spain is waning but that could change. whatever the case madrid is back on the looked on a great deal of europe is reintroducing restrictions as infection spike is imposing a curfew from saturday nights of the city and now hotspots in germany daily coronavirus cases have hit a new high since april rising hospital rates have health officials wide in the u.k. the government's reviewing measure that's in iceland pubs clubs and arcade holes and gyms are closed there are fears the latest wave of infections could be much higher than the 1st and paris has shot at spas but there is resistance. this is pathetic when you look at what's happening with public transport people are

crammed together in metros and buses. is a sad but i think it's stupid it's a political issue the government is constantly manipulating people left right and center with economic interests. running an economy and keeping a pandemic at bay is a balancing act so far the virus hasn't overwhelms germany's hospitals but they're in a better position to tackle the 2nd wave bruno table had just started working here at the hell eos clinic in berlin when the coronavirus pandemic reached germany . the younger sister and doctor is still impressed by just how quickly the hospital reacted in march what. for example we reallocated parts of the central surgery area to be used as a new intensive care unit within 24 hours. along

with that entire coronavirus treatment centers were set up in berlin equipment was scarce and management were worried there weren't enough ventilators many hospitals had to improvise the 1st wave of infection took the hell yes clinic by surprise. from the cup a few places far as testing capacities are concerned in terms of masks and protective clothing we are prepared we know where and when you task its allies patients we can make quick diagnoses and quick decision was. everyone who arrives at the hospital is tested for corona virus before they're admitted and patients are strictly separated those who test negative go to the green ward those who test positive go to the red toward a suspected cases go to the yellow ward. feels the system is safe. we haven't seen a single case of patients infecting staff since these measures were initiated now

treating coronavirus patients has become routine. the applause once heard from german balconies has quieted down people seem to have forgotten the significance of health care workers but so many coronavirus deniers have taken to the streets in recent weeks is something nurses and doctors struggle to understand . some people say i've never seen corona virus so i don't believe in it never seen electricity but i don't put my finger in the socket we've seen coronavirus here we've seen deaths. bruno terrible has also seen the effects of the corona virus firsthand but he knows that his hospital is well prepared for what the pandemic might bring. gandhi is an infectious disease doctor and research or with the university of california san francisco monica great to have you on the show what do the rising rates need lock downs and latest preparations all tell you

you know who we are either in a 2nd wave or more likely the continuation of our 1st wave and unfortunately we haven't gotten on top of this calling pandemic the keys are still rising and they've been rising interim many and throughout the united states and in europe however death rates are staying lower than they were during the 1st way why do you call lockdowns though a blunt instrument in the fight against the coronavirus. because lock downs are extremely disruptive to the economy to the poor to workers to sell many aspects of other aspects of public health and there are other ways that we can stay safe from infection and those pillars of pandemic control are essentially social distancing wearing masks and hey jeanne ventilation

doing things outside when we can and stay away from large crowds but complete lockdown are completely blunt instrument they're both acted aspects of covert help that we're going to have ramifications for so long talking about crowds we've seen huge protests also here in berlin against these lockdowns. justified or or is it quite. counterproductive considering these people are all coming together and maybe nowhere musts so it's completely counterproductive to be in large crowds without masks so there is absolute full acknowledgement of the seriousness of this disease and we have to completely change life as we know it wearing masks unusual. complete social distancing is unusual not having large route is different having settings where we are keeping to small cohorts of groups doing

things outside keeping things ventilated all of this is different life is different but it is risky to be in large crowds without masks in the setting of a pandemic i was just talking to friends in sweden they're not wearing mosques the boz a full why if they say relaxed. you know sweden is a very interesting piece that we looked at for her for years and decades to understand what happened there is social distancing at the beginning there was sort of a recommendation to the public to stay away from each other there are a lot of deaths at the beginning very unfortunately because a lot of their vulnerable older people people in nursing homes died and whether there is more immunity in the population is being speculated i think that's likely true they do stay away from each other in general but you're right things are much more normal in sweden they took a different strategy they are in

a different place but it was at high expense of the beginning if an interview you said how much virus you're breathing is probably one of the most important determinants of how sick you get do you still stand by them. as you know we and others have been looking at that question of the viral dose or the viral inoculate the amount that you get it is proportional to how sick you get and we've not only been looking at this with part of virus this is actually been shown in musicals during the salmonella many other infectious diseases we're putting together a review paper on this now but the meaning is that if this is true with chronic virus social distancing and wearing that mask reduces the amount of ours who get in and the likelihood that you're going to become ill and this seems to make sense in animal models and what we've been seeing with this virus including with decreasing mortality in places that are consistent with facial masking monica 2 quick

questions for you what do you think about your president's message that he's sending to the rest of the world. i think president trump's message is dangerous and we did kill lists and he has been. flouted almost all public health recommendations cept for testing he doesn't mask he doesn't actually distance he keeps large crowds he doesn't contact trace in the case of this disaster he didn't isolate encourage quarantining he just tested there's only one strategy of the pandemic and it's not enough and lastly if you can sum it up in one word what's going through and this pandemic. you know it is not being normal for at least a year plus the vaccine on top of it so it is wearing masks stay away from each other hand washing and then waiting for that safe and effective vaccine but not completely shutting down society you heard it from monica gandhi thank you very

much for being on this earth a day 8 here and now it's their chance to answer your questions on the coronavirus if you want to look into something in particular just write to us on our future journal. if i free coverage from code 19 do i still have to wear a mask. sometimes it's easy to forget that that millions and millions of people worldwide have also recovered from coke at 19 and want to return as much as possible until life as usual but what does coming out the other end mean are you safe from the disease because you're immune can you still pose a potential danger to others do you need to continue to social distance and wear a mask it's all questions that we still don't have a firm answers to we just have to guess and rely on what we know from other infectious diseases particularly those caused by other coronaviruses based on what

we've seen so far with coke at 19 people do acquire some immunity the problem is we don't know for how long on average but we do know is that with other coronaviruses that infect humans immunity can wane pretty swiftly there are a number of studies that convincingly show that people can be really infected with some of them within a year and there have been a few isolated documented cases of that also happening with covert 19 also at least in some of those cases the people who were infected showed no symptoms the 2nd time around so were they infectious to others we don't know and to me it seems like in general that intel we have better data when it comes to questions that we have to answer with we don't know we should be erring on the side of caution so in the face of this particular we don't know i go for the fallback position which is

to continue to assume that masking up is a way to protect yourself and others even if you've recovered from covert 19. good to have you along for another about covert specials i'm been physical and see you next on. entering the conflict zone with tim sebastian. brazilians in the news these days for all the wrong reasons i did say that the 3rd highest figure in the world for coated 19 infections my guess is me from brasilia is the come choose vice president how would soon follow ralph how did the government's message old get so bad. conflicts of. d w. one continent.

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beethoven is for us. veto for is for m. on. beethoven 2021250th anniversary here on down. you know. here in brazil everything is ok for you preparing for the military to intervene we are not a military government brazil is in the news these days for all the wrong reasons allegations of high level corruption uncontrolled illegal logging and fires raging in the amazon rain forest i didn't see that the 3rd highest figure in the world for covert 19 infections my guess this week from brasilia is the country's vice president how much lower out how did the government let it all get so bad.

vice president how milton moore our welcome to conflict zone a few months ago you told journalists everything's under control we just don't know who's just how bad is the chaos in your administration. everything is ok in our administration that was a kind of a joke that i used to say ok it was not very straight for war war that i put it was a joke ali a joke because here in brazil everything is ok. what sort of joke was it you had 2 health ministers who were gone in the space of a single month during a health emergency a justice minister resigned and education minister hurries off to the u.s. just days after stepping down from the job saying i don't want to fight leave me

alone don't provoke me isn't that enough chaos for you. now it's not it's not it's things that happen in any government ok the way that their vacation minister went out well it was not a big problem for us ok and you know brazil is a very different country and well some things that happen here doesn't happen in other countries it's our culture so why did you write an op ed may the 14th you said no country in the world has inflicted more harm on itself than brazil and you warned that institutional damage was driving the country into chaos you were the one who mentioned the chaos and drew attention to it you said we've become incapable of the essentials in facing any problem sitting at the table talking and debating that was a powerful indictment of your own administration wasn't it because your leaders like you who are supposed to unify your country well the country is

suffering what happens all around the ward there isn't an excess of of true believers and politico the political sides are all 'd very glad to see polarized devotees a lot of polarization in politics but. our administration is running the country well and so far as to day things are getting better and the relationship between the different powers are getting each day better and better so we had some difficult time some months ago but now everything's ok really and added to that the president his family and several associates are kneedeep in criminal and legislative investigations is that ok too. this question is still under investigation and of course it's than the hands of the judiciary system and we

have to wait for. this process to get tweets sent. by warning about all this chaos as you did last may were you preparing for the military to intervene and start to dealing with the chaos in june the president openly floated the idea of military intervention saying the armed forces would not accept absurd decisions by the supreme court of congress is not was not a threat. that's not a that's not true 1st of all that i'm going to force our law and with their constitutional mission and they are not stepping out of the it syncs here in brazil are going well and where we have to make it very clear that democracy is a value are not only for mr bush or not his government but us to our am and forced to so there is no any end here and there is no threat to the supreme court or are

there just like you have system here in brazil and the fact that he attended rallies outside military bases where his supporters called for an armed intervention to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers who imposed lockdowns in response to the pandemic no threat there either i suppose. well the question of the pandemic people have to understand that brazil it's a very unequal country where we're unequal socially economically and of course geographically so since the beginning of depend amica we've been trying to deal with their health for with the economic curve and with this social curve that's the way that mr bowser not a government dealt with this pandemic well he attended rallies which called for an armed intervention didn't he to get rid of governors judges and lawmakers what's that if not a threat to democracy you want to play i heard us is not a threat to democracy but the governor of south paulo thought it was going to. the

governor of south paolo said brazil i said wakes up every day afraid of aggression to democracy to the constitution to the congress to the supreme court president both scenario he said stop this endless aggression. this is happens because there is polarization in politics the government of some policy opposed to mr bush on out of this is much more talk than that say action when his angels here's the happens it's a new way to people behave. not dangerous it's dangerous to have power to do what you mean but nobody has the power to do what they mean we swards here in brazil plenty of people seem to think you're doing politics through fear these days eduardo cost a pinto from the federal university of rio he says this is the problem of having a government filled with military personnel during an institutional crisis the

military will fight tooth and nail to stay in power and they have guns which makes political mediation difficult why fill the government with all these military personnel if you're not planning on the military taking over power. first of all it's got to be very clear that we are not a military government mr both are not in the eye where elected by more than 57 median brazilians ok and of course we have some people into gaza that come from the military but they are here sinking for the good of brazil and respecting our constitution and our loss the federal audit court is not investigating what it calls the excessive presence of the military in civil public service and it is excessive isn't it the court said in june there were as many as 3000 military personnel in government jobs what do you need 3000 of the military in government jobs for well 1st of all it have to be very clear that any government in brazil has

more didn't 2 talents and military in government jobs because we have a security cabinet that belongs to their president that has more than 1000 military people and india scholar of military people are those who work at the defense ministry so we don't have such a huge number of military people. there civil jobs in our government that's some kind of its information that came through some different channels and are all these military personnel qualified to do the jobs they're doing i'm thinking of the current health minister as well oh he's an active duty general who followed orders from the president is that his only qualification he doesn't know anything about health or drug study well you don't need to be a doctor to be the house minister why do you need to be it's manageable understands the public administration and more that you don't mocked up with secular option and

of course mr punch will laws are not about logistics that was the main problem in our house minister. and he knows how to a by orders more than the other health ministers the see he knows to do as he's told that's his main qualification is it well he has the qualifications and he has been do we have very good job and this has been that task that about all the secretaries of the different states here in brazil they are all very pleased with the job that mr percivale has been doing because all the necessary support for to fight big in control the pandemic it has reached it every point in our career and our country mr vice president mr paulson r.-o. has never hidden his admiration for brazil's former military dictatorship do you

share that admiration well we had a period of a military presence that lasted about 20 years they had they did a very good sings for brazil another sings they didn't go so well and this is history and history can only be judge it when time pass we are still some 50 years away from that period we need some more 50 years so that this period can be judged well well during the vote to impeach former president dilma rousseff mr ball scenario dedicated his ballot to one of the regime's most notorious torturers this man was convicted of torture during the 21 years of military dictatorship last year your president called him a national hero 502 cases of torture were identified in the unit he ran you have nice heroes in your administration these days don't you. first of all we had on

we don't agree we start to talk to us is not. a politics that our country is simpatico to it and of course when there is a lot of people that fought the euro but guerrillas judy in the late sixty's and beginning of the 7th of last century and many of these people have been wrongly accused of being torturers so colonel carlos alberto it was true it was wrongly accused and you also think of him as a hero do you despite the cases the 500 cases of torture which were tribute to his unit what i can tell you about the man carries about 2 brilliant used he was my commanding officer in the late seventy's of their last century and he was a man on her and a man who respect the human rights of his subordinates so bent of syncs that people tell about him i can tell you because i had a very close friendship with this man that's not true so he was wrongly convicted

then of torture was. it was all made up while the trial was fixed 1st of all. i'm not aligned with stuart and of course many people are still alive from that period and all and all of them want to put sings in the way that they saw that's why i told you before that we have to wait for all these sectors to disappear so debt history can make its parts and of course what really happened during that period that period come through well given that you and your president are not prepared to condemn the torture is only torture can you not understand why so many people in brazil and internationally doubts your commitment your administration's commitment to democracy and you understand that. well democracy it's one of a nash of our national chairman and objectives we don't see brazil out of democracy

our main objective today is make of brazil the most brilliant democracy in the 1000 m. sphere really and with people like al gusto how lame no minister of institutional security another retired general he's on record as saying he believes it's up to the military to put this house in order this house meaning brazil another threat you have all these people who are prepared to make threats but you say there really isn't a threat i'm confused mr vice president. like i like i've been telling you this makes parts of the discussion that we have the polarization in politics ok it's must really wards then actions because you want name one single action from mr bowser not a government that was a real real real stretch to democracy here in brazil but words matter in politics don't they you play it's all down but even the supreme court's chief justice d.a.'s

tough ali warned in june about the president's dubiousness about democracy he said dubiousness that's not a great characteristic for a democratic leader is it is dubious about democracy well i think there is no way to sink. the other is that some dubious of feelings of the mr bowser nodded to democracy including last saturday for instance mr bush or not and mr tough fully aware eating together in a dinner so if mr copley had any doubt about the way mr bush on our behave they would not be together in the heat in their house in his house back apart but that. your former justice minister sergio morrow accused the president of interfering in an investigation into his family basically attempting to obstruct justice this is a highly damaging allegation from

a minister who used to be well liked and respected by mr bowles and wasn't it well mr morell may dislike you see. being investigated through a dead supreme court we are waiting for this investigation to come through ok of course we have to wait for dead in this process to end i myself. will walk i'm side by side with president bush for not admitting all this time and i can tell you that he did in not to interfere in the federal police to do work and to federal police so that he could help some of his sons that are being accused of some wrongdoings how do you know he didn't did he tell you that he didn't have i know that well well i've been with mr bowles on our since the. 2 towers and we've been working closely together and i can tell you he is not interfering in

the work of the federal police and federal police is doing our job they are investigating all the skase. that our system is investigating the problems that one of his sons has so i see that this process is going their way all process go here in brazil. mr vice president how important is truth in your administration let's take the issue of deforestation and the fires this year in the amazon august the 10th you said government agents were executing urgent measures to contain deforestation and fires a day later president both sonera said the exact opposite you won't find any spot of far he said nor a quarter of a head deforested the report that the amazon is burning is a lie in fact it was his statement that was the lie wasn't it because the amazon was clearly burning at that point well it don't deny what happens and we've been

working very hard to stop any illegal deforestation and illegal fire that happened in the amazon what has been is clearly the deforestation has been increasing since to tells and 12 accelerate the last year since that 2nd half of this month of june last june deforestation has been decreasing so their work is beginning to pay now and of course we still have the problem of the fires we are in the dry season that i see as one year to year is beginning to be very bigger and bigger and of course we have to have more resources we have to put more a source in the fight to hand against the illegality that happens in the amazon area yeah but when mr bronson our august 11th said there is no fire the report that the amazon is burning is a lie that itself was a lie wasn't true was it simply wasn't true so i lie about these things

what happened. i know what happens in the amazon for the question of fires it's very clear we lot of people that we have some more than 500000 farmers in the amazon area and some 5 percent of dinner about some 25000 farmers they work their fields with fire and that's why our that's a very. system to work the fields so we have to make them we stop this so debt. don't grow year to year the fact is these are the worst 5 in a decade on day in september you know satellites recorded more than 32000 hotspots in the rain forest 61 percent rise over the same month last year and in both september and the oldest when you would tell the president was telling us there were no 5 the blaze matched all suppose last year's single month's high so the

science director for your amazon environmental research institute said we have had 2 months with a lot of fun it's already worse than last year satellites can see it why do you deny it's worse than last year we don't deny we don't deny anything ok september of 20 has been a war since september last year but like i told you before some 70 percent of these fires are raging atheist that have been over read it before asked it many many many years ago that are occupied by farmers only one served of them are happening in a test that they wouldn't do should not happen and we are fighting then since the beginning of their day a green brazil to operation that we lounge and system us of may where we stop at some 6000 points of fire so we have been doing our jobs. you've been doing your

jobs but. not very effectively it seems according to reports on the ground if the fires are that bad and there are still $32000.00 the hot spots in the rain forest 61 percent rise over the same month last year that's not very effective is it well like i told you this season is very dry so it's a moment that fire happens and of course you say 32000 hotspots 32 does a hot spots in an age of 5 median square kilometers i think you can agree we should meet that's not so huge are people watch telly around the wood ok because the amazon is very huge so what's been passing through all around there were that the whole amazon is in fire and that's not happened there fires happen like i told you in ages that have been already before asked that since many many years ago mr vice president the accusation from human rights groups is the george ministration has

deliberately undermined the efforts by your own federal agents to stop deforestation human rights watch says that while federal authorities impose thousands of fines for illegal deforestation a presidential decree has allowed most of them to go on paid what's the point of doing that no we don't comply we've seen the galaxies in the amazon by for instance our. environmental legislation to say that any property in the amazon can export 20 percent of it sadia they order 80 percent has to be preserved but if you let we will be as you weigh it with fines you let people get away without paying fines why almost everyone gets away with not paying well lines well. so if people don't pay fines they gave the don't pay they fight defiance the land that they have is going to be arrested but so far as today we have a problem of regulation of the land tenure we need to regulate these this is

a big problem that we still have in brazil ok. we are dealing with this in the national council that i'm the head of the council and that's one of my main objectives i've been working together we say our culture minister so death we can go ahead with this because it's very important that we solve this problem because only repression against people who are making sings wrong it's not and they legalities we need to advance with their land can you regulation well why should these criminal groups involved in deforestation stop when the when you know penalties are taken away and they're not even obliged to pay fines means everyone gets away with it with no penalties which is exactly what you wanted a mr ball scenario made no secret of his intentions he openly attacked his own environmental agencies which he called industries of fines and promise to end their

festival of sanctions so he made it quite clear that he wanted to take away the sanctions take away the punishment and let all the illegal logging go ahead he was quite clear about that. both of that he spoke about debt when he who as a candidate and a candidate you know it speaks about a lot of syncs oh i was it wasn't true it wasn't true there's. all the reports on the ground say that's exactly what he's done we put in some $300000000.00 in fines that's a lot of money ok so our environmental agents they have the freedom to do their job they are put in fines on everybody that are doing illegalities. well that's not the reports coming from the ground mr vice president and final word on the pandemic when it comes to the coronavirus you have around $4700000.00 confirmed cases the 3rd highest in the world after the u.s.

and india more cases than all of europe not a great record is it well like i told you before brazil has a lot of when equalities ok we are not an equal country we have problems in the social and economic and then drug you know of course we have our geography here in brazil so we try to fight the best way possible we regret most 150000 brazilians that we lost their lives but we have cured more than 4000000 people here in brazil so why i think that despite this number of cases and number of deaths we dealt a very good wish to spend democrat us how much how much use wasn't for the president to call it just a measly code and say to people i think almost all of you will catch it one day what are you afraid of about being afraid of dying or having how long term health problems or blood clots not much the as not much sympathy for these people have

seen. of course we prepare i wouldn't is has been always concerned about the people the president since the beginning of the pandemic said it very clear we have to take care of their health and we have to take care of the economy because we know that a lot of people here brazil they well they have very difficult to wear and their money because we. live in a period of economic crisis that we don't have jobs for everybody people leave in one informal way and from night to day just people lost any chance to have some kind of revenue so the president who knows the common people knew that about all right vice president how will tomorrow thank you very much for being on conflict thank you. as if you've. of.

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. play. play. here is a live up from barry let us a vice presidential candidate clash over coronavirus come on harris and mike pence exchange accusations over the administration's handling of the endemic as well as a range of other issues now posted to debate analysis. i'm claire richards and welcome to the show in the united states the 2 candidates vying for the vice.