weeks are going to bring you know time goes back on you when you yourself have pointed out. the metaphor is still on his feet he still fighting how does he manage it. because he's donald trump and he has you know he was once interviewed he was once interviewed by a photographer for p.b.s. and he was asked you know how do you manage you know this this storm around you in dollar terms that i am the storm he really relishes in this chaos he likes creating chaos and controlling the chaos and you know his you might think his policies and his is being president is despicable but from that point of view he's very effective let me just stick with you for 2nd because to you i know that you have said that he's not just the president who is ill but the presidency that he's ill that is sick that's right you know donald trump wants to make everything about himself always and for liberals or his opponents people around the world people here in europe who are laughing right now are saying i told you so are we even maybe even rejoicing in the fact that donald trump got coronavirus after denying it for so long or playing it down for so long that playing into his hands about making

all about trump what a president is sick the presidency is sick the presidency is limited in what it can do the president is just the individual filling that role it's of course a much broader office of advisors and executive branch and we see now that many high level military officials are in quarantine it takes its toll on a country and if you do care about what we call the liberal world order of the post war or if we care about you know a strong stable united states working with europe then you need a stronger you want a strong stable president and a president c. so we've seen this in the past you know with woodrow wilson with f.d.r. you know major major events happen they're sick they haven't really informed their their advisors or other people who might take over for them and we've just gotten lucky in these instances that there have been strong competent people around a week or 6 president to take over for things we might not always have that you know luck in history has been america's side for a long time we don't know how long that's going to last and pursuing this thought

still. we begin with perhaps the president himself is a little sick perhaps the presidency is you know sick of procedures german newspaper wrote a couple of days ago america is sick. you know i mean of course literally 1st of all america is sick and the numbers are bad and getting worse and the fact that it hasn't been able to deal more effectively you know like germany for example this is not a sign of a healthy country the fact that you know someone like donald trump 1st of all is president and 2nd of all that we cannot believe that we would be wrong to uncritically believe the information coming out of the white house this is a sign of sick this we should be able to believe the information coming out of the white house but sadly we cannot come to america be a resurgence society a resurgent country politically medically in terms of the health of its people coming to struggle they self i think it's there's a lot of work to do it's going to be a tough time and things there's

a lot of things that have to happen concerning the endemic right now but also concerning the house system. having also. also for workers getting and house and things like that so that it's really and economically that has a lot of to be done so it's a long way there's a lot of work to do we've see we've seen the movie the vice presidential debate taking place in utah mike pence on the one home to the let's listen to what he had to say 1st and then we'll see what the challenge is to say it from the very 1st. president donald trump has put the health of america 1st before there were more than 5 cases in the united states or people who had returned from china president donald trump didn't know whether american president had ever done that was he suspended all travel from china the 2nd largest economy in the world. what do you

make you know about defense of president trump and his strategy it's a nice try. as if there were so many other things that went wrong and the people who actually brought the virus within to the country did not come from china but from europe and. or they did also come from europe and he didn't stop that on time and he never he keeps downplaying how dangerous the virus is you did that in the start which is why he didn't he didn't lock down the country early enough when he chose to lock down he didn't use the time to prepare the country for the reopening he real reopened too early and this is that's why he's still running after the pandemic and he keeps politicizing the measures against the coronavirus and that's just terribly dangerous ok well mark penn's was up against a mother who's california son and so let's listen to what she just the american people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential

administration in the history of our country and here are the facts 210000 dead people in our country it is the last several months over 7000000 people who have contracted this disease one in 5 businesses closed we're looking at front line workers who have been treated like sacrificial workers. like. if you sent your long cloak to be in the morning to watch the debate what did you make of the debates in general. i mean the debate in general was it was a bit like traveling in time back to 2015 and it was a return to sort of standard american political debates which are also not great and that there's a lot of sort of running around the truth not answering questions. you know brutal attacks that sort of stay on the surface so this was you know by no means some kind of shining example of democracy but wow was it refreshing after the presidential

debate i think they both. gave pretty good performances did quite well and what we see you know among other things is pence is so much better at defending defending trump's policies than truck them self is. and we should be careful not to trip over the bar that we've set so low for so. pence himself just has described himself as rush limbaugh decathlon he was a far right conservative radio show host so he has that call that says it's often forgotten about yeah right come on who was was the attorney general and mike pence was a conservative radio show talk shows and not even in a very huge not even the biggest of markets so we should definitely as you say debates in general in the united states are not really a model and we should we should be mindful of where we keep our our bar i think when it comes to the ministrations claims about you know battling the virus and taking it seriously on a number of fronts the trump administration i think intentionally confuses instincts with outcomes a lot of their instincts are correct you know need to be tougher on china needing

to get you know nato to shape up and be more of an equal partner with the united states and general relations generally from the united states and other parts of the world trying to bring back manufacturing with a lot of a lot of these working class blue collar town that has been decimated over the last several decades the instincts are right that doesn't mean the outcomes in the way they choose to pursue those policies are very good as we saw with the trade war most american consumers and american companies that are paying the. terrace for example and they will talk about their instincts but if their outcomes as you rightly pointed out ok you block trouble from china what with all the other things you didn't do or denied ok the biden bandwagon is racing forward to victory as you could almost say at this point in time wolf could upset the bandwagon. himself as we've seen joe biden can often often be is own worst enemy he's benefited from the coronavirus by having fewer opportunities to put his foot in his mouth if something really big happens that takes all of our attention away from the

coronavirus again that's probably good for trump i mean i hope that's going to have to be big and bad so i hope nothing like that happens but that would certainly up and thanks yeah i also think only if you get that attention away from the coronavirus maybe back to economics or something that could help but i don't really see that coming unless unless the long wished upon vaccine comes out which might magically appear as trump keeps pushing and pushing pressuring his f.d.a. and the c.d.c. to do. who's going to be the next president of the united states of america. that is a such a simplistic question you want to see you want it with somebody tell me when you see behind this is you know the guess you're going to give me yeah so you know we all know now that guessing is very dangerous the numbers look very good for biden the story line that i think is going to continue until election day which is and the circle around trump potentially getting sicker and sicker. is not good for

therefore i do think biden it's biden's race to lose at this point. you know i also think so because trump has been trying to push away the coronavirus as long as he could whenever he could and now he can't anymore and that's his biggest problem and that's i think that's going to be that weakness that cost him the wind there's just no way i'm going to be put on record for saying one way or. i think what you said was was very much right on there are 2 points to make we probably most likely will not have a result on election night and trump is probably going to everything in his power to sew doubt into the result so even if by that looks like he's winning and factually is winning there might still be a lot of doubt swirling around in the days and weeks to follow and i think the bigger point is to remember you mentioned earlier how america is sick i think it's important member that trump to continue this metaphor is a symptom not a cause that that you know when the president is your guy you're very happy that he has all the power and he's not your guy you want that power taken away and donald

trump really has ripped off the band-aid and underneath is a lot of problems have been festering united states for a very long time but only now happen to be affecting or being felt by a majority of americans have been felt by other groups of americans for a very very long time i think those are bigger issues for the united states has to deal with he will lose in disruption he's a must disruption and also it. nothing's been one of the constant comes from themes of the recent years under trump and i think you could be what we're going to be looking at in the next. we're going to leave you there and we've been talking about the u.s. election about. the pandemic and how it's having an impact whether it will continue to have an impact thanks for joining us if you've enjoyed the show as much as i have come back next week.

the above. the be the butt of a.

little. above. in good shape the big topic of this episode affects every single one of us how does the colonna virus of faith in our lives what impact does it have on our spirits. the band the relationships above.

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