form and on demand language courses, video and audio. anytime. anywhere. w. media center, it's tense, it's exciting, and it's disturbing america has voted in a momentous presidential election that has pitted republican incumbent. donald trump against democrat challenger full of vice president joe biden. welcome to the point. well, the turnout has being huge with long lines in many places across the country. president trump's showing has been unexpectedly strong and he has shocked many eat, like clay being that he is the winner that he will now go to the supreme court claiming major for award. but joe biden has also told his supporters that he's

confident of victory votes. still being counted in a process that can take hours or even days. our question on to the point since u.s. election. and when it is a good one. joining me here in the studio are pseudo david philip from the german marshall fund who say he's there is no landslide for any of the candidates, but trump ism is here to stay and a warm welcome to to stacey bivins from de w.'s u.s. election team. her opinion, a trump victory could destroy american democracy as we know it. so and also with us is joseph watchin son, u.s. journalist and lawyer. he said he's every u.s.

state has until december, the 18th, to finish counting votes. trump, on the supremes, cold must comply with federal law. thank you very much for being with us here today. here on d, w. stacey, off t w, i'd like to begin with you because you have been up all night. so i know collecting impressions of what's been going on. remarkable events. what's you know what, what, what has stood out for you? i think with the most was that the polls are wrong yet again. we can't trust them at the moment. something needs to be. we reworked because if you're a democrat, for example, and you've been told that leading up to this biden has, is in the lead. and it's going to be a landslide. and then all of a sudden you realize that this isn't the case. and if you're a black lives matter person or a person who's the l.p.g. t.q. community, you realize that there's a part of america that does not care about equality and safety for you. and that's very scary. that is america failing to get about right. i think that

there's a, there's many issues involved. part of it is education, an educational system that focus more on patriotism than on true at education and, you know, clear thought. and i think that there are certain people that support trump because they love the tax cuts. and then there's other people who actually believe the racist rhetoric that if you're black or brown, that you are not as that you are inferior. and that the reason why you haven't made it in life is because you're not smart enough and you're not strong enough and it has nothing to do with with institutional racism, sudha. your initial impressions that i think that the landslide never occurred and whoever wins will win by a small margin. so that means that the united states will we continue to be sort of polarized. and there may be some flips that we see when it comes to certain states, but i guess we have to remember that the results are not yet in, and it will take

a while for them to be counted. and so we have to see how this all pans out, and it's not just the white house. we also have to see what congress looks like. will the senate flip to the democrats and if that happens and president does get reelected, then congress can be an effective check on the presidency. the results and president, trump, joe is already saying that he is the winner. i mean, this is the most undemocratic being, any electoral official could ever say before. we've even finished counting the votes. he wants to stop the vote, and then he was tweeting out inaccurate information. if you were in line, when the polls closed, you are able out to continue to stay in that line and to cast your vote for him saying any one of his tweets, you know, people are voting after polls close. that's fraud, that's not fraud. that's actually how the system works. and so i need to rein it in a little bit. but donald trump has proven through out his presidency that there was

no lie too big. he was going to shy away from telling. and now we're entering a very critical and dangerous moment of our electoral process, where on the election night, while we know we still have days or weeks to count things, he's saying no stop it, it's all fraud. you're saying it's extremely dangerous. i mean, is there still will trump, i mean, he's been disruptive throughout his presidency. that has been one of his trademarks . but is this something, does this go still further? is he now moving into a 2nd term to change america completely from what we know? well, this is what he's been building up for, you know, he's been telling us for the past couple of months that we couldn't trust our electoral systems that there was going to be fraud. that the democrats were going to try to steal the election away from him. he's been telling his supporters that they should go, you know, watch the voters, which is really, it's nothing more than voter intimidation, which is illegal in fact. and so the concern now is how much further is he going to

go? we've always seen, he moves, you know, it just, the temperature gets a little bit hotter a little bit hotter. we get used to that a little bit hotter a little bit hotter. we get used to that, and what we're seeing now is he's trying to say that the results are illegitimate. he's trying to get his supporters riled up. the problem is, i'm sure, are still listening to him and standing by, as he said in the 1st debate. he's really, i think, at this point, knowing there are so many criminal you know, let's hear what the president himself has to say. we want the load to be used in a proper manner. so we'll be going to the u.s. supreme court. we want to hold voting just we don't want them to find any ballots at 4 o'clock in the morning and them to the list. ok. it's a very sure it's a very sad moment to me. this is

a very moment and we will win this and we already have in your capacity as a lawyer, which is a useful resource for us to have today at the time. tell us what's going to happen next and what the sort of the timetabling of it might be. i mean, the difficult thing is, so there's no, you know, one system for all the 50 states. each of the states votes differently, they count their votes differently. some states have already counted votes before election day, some won't count until after with the absentee ballots. but the thing that does bind all states is what's called the electoral count act that says that, you know, we have voted on november 3rd. there are $41.00 days until the electoral college has to meet that's december 14th and there's what's called the safe harbor provision 6 days before that december 8th, which is the date at which all the states have to certify their results. so no matter what trump is saying, no matter how much he's threatening to go to the supreme court,

now the supreme court will be balland by this congressional law. it's over 100 years old, and we have to respect that. you're not doing it well. i mean, i think it's, it is outrageous. what donald trump says about having been victorious already. but at the same time, i mean, i actually think he can say that in a sense, because even though he may lose at the end, his ideology for the republican party is not going to go away any time soon. and the question is, because if dollar loses badly, if he wins, that's one thing. but if he loses only by, you know, by a hair line, his idea of the republican party will be here to say as well. his family. i mean, he's got your and who are surely looking into future political careers themselves. ok, let's just, before we move on, let's listen to what to challenger. joe biden has to say,

it's not my place, your dollar drops places where that's a decision of the american pretty poor. but i'm optimistic about this outcome stating how important is it for the american people to make that decision themselves rather than having the whole months to go to the top of lawyers and how important is it that they get a clear decision? i think a clear decision now is not going to happen and we need to take the time. we're in the middle of a pandemic. there's a reason why so many people are mailing in, but their votes, their votes. there is a reason why there is a backlog, millions of votes have come in and you have people, they don't have as much manpower and certain counties. and so they're counting as fast as they can. but it's better to have it right than to have it fast. and this is what i mean when i'm talking about trying to destroy democracy. this is each person's voice, each person saying what they want. and the very idea that the president of the

united states wants to take aware their vote is unconscionable. i was so moved when i heard about this harris county texas lawsuit. this is the president didn't file this lawsuit, but the republican party supports it. another republican activists was trying to get 127000 votes rescinded because of the way the votes were cast. it was illegal according to their to the laws of that county, but still they were trying to take away people's votes. people who voted early and in good faith. it's unbelievable. brava has been a huge surge in support of normal child soldiers. incontrovertibly, what has happened is what we are seeing. many, many americans tuning to donald trump as the mum that they see the future invested in this at the same time as the prime demick. how does it out? oh, i actually think that if it weren't for the pandemic daal trumpet of coasted to toward reelection, i think many experts were saying that at the beginning of this year because the

economy was doing so well that donald trump had a very good chance of winning reelection now the coronavirus pandemic changed all of that, and our country is that, you know, undergone 3 crises at the same time. economic want to health crisis and also one of race relations in the united states. but i suppose his messaging about law and order has, you know, had some effect on voters to, for election before the election and also his attempt to paint the democrats as radical left socialists that must have also had an effect to an extent. however, joe biden has failed to come up with a lot of what you're saying is that the problem with joe biden or a problem with the democratic party or what i do think that joe biden has been, is the man for the moment for the democratic party in the sense that he's a moderate candidate, he can unify the party and you know elections. usually general elections are won from the middle, not from the extremes. so i guess he is the right man for the moment,

but instead of it making it just a referendum on president trump, perhaps the democrats could have given a little bit more airtime to what they, what they want to do. i mean, that's, that kind of got lost in all the noise. let's listen to what we've got to voices from ordinary americans, if you. so let's listen to what you can pick up quick. if you forgive very, very, very, maybe people are over your mark. you're right, i'm very frightened for america and very right. i love our democracy, a lot of america. and i don't know if you could do it already, and i just want to make sure and argue that very important. so yellow taxicabs, i'm going to see him that was my hometown,

new york city without even me to assume who those people you know, supported. i think the problem that many americans have not been able to grasp at this point is that donald trump is the danger to the american presidency to the nation, to democracy, to the international world, order to peace, to stability. we've had over 200000 lives, lost the pandemic, and i think, you know, if you have to look at it kind of like a cult, you know, people have been so brainwashed, i think is the phrase we're using that at this point. they're committed because at this point for them to turn against what they are doing and they can sadly american voters vote for donald trump. that is, the proportionality is there. i mean, don't half of registered voters, and this is an important other important distinction. so it's not half of the nation we have unfortunately, i think still many undecided voters perhaps, you know, tens of millions i decided voters and a number of disenfranchised voters as well. so yes, half of registered voters,

perhaps many vote. just say, i think to be fair, joe, a lot of these problems were also there before the era of doll trub. you know, they were just sort of swept under the rug by both republicans and democrats. and that's kind of the reason we have dollar trump as well. he can't he, you know, he campaigned in 2016 as the anti-establishment candidate. and it's true you would think that considering where we are right now that it would be toast for him on election day. but obviously there are enough people who think that dollar trump is the right person to change things that are not correct about our native by hate and motivated by racism. a lot of people, a lot of people. yes. but not entirely. i'm not saying that every everyone is like i said, some people are just worried about their bottom line. but there are so many people and i know this is my experience growing up in a predominately white suburb where people automatically assume that if i were, if you're black that you, you didn't really belong,

you must have been on some kind of a welfare program or you know, if you were in a good academic program, oh, well, you know, you were just let and just because of affirmative action, it was never because you were deserving or because of your merit. it was because you were black and and they feel like, and we're talking about the people that white voters, they feel aggrieved and they feel like they're not further along because of some black or brown person that's taken their place. they don't seem to realize that they're also part of the problem because they're voting against their interest. i am lost. how white poor americans can identify more with donald trump than with joe biden. that blows my mind. you see the better credentials will be a comedy for exam, done a lot of thought. yes, but when you look at it, and if you are critical thinker, this man has filed bankruptcy. how many times,

what has he ever succeeded? and he inherited money from his father, and he's now what $420000000.00 in debt. he and mitt he inherited an economy from joe biden and barack obama. and even though kogut had devastating effects, we were already in a manufacturing recession. so what has he done and what has he ever accomplished? meanwhile, the vote counting goes, oh i'm not going to be we've had the intervention from donald trump, his cold to save the mountain to the comes constitutional gold is the is the election of the vote counting, going to continue as planned, and is this going to sort of leads to the, the appointment of a new president as planned as ever, is everything going to stay on course? i think he's barking a lot because he's worried. but there are laws and there are rules. and just because donald trump says the opposite doesn't erode those rules and those those

laws. so yes, the vote counts will go on and maybe he will try to file lawsuits. but that will go on people's votes will count. at this point, we should just assume and take for granted that there will be multiple lawsuits filed in multiple counties and from both the biden and the trump campaigns. because what we're really saying is, you know, if you look back 20 years ago to bush v gore george bush at the time, george w. bush won by a little over 500 votes. that's the margins we're talking about here. a little over 500 votes decided that election, so we're definitely going to see that here, especially if the margins are as close as appearing. they are. i still come up to understand how the americans could afford this full year of such inefficiency around the election of the president. that's the time of the time of such a of a major economic recession. well, i do think to be fair states have also learned from 2016 because of election

interference. our intelligence agencies have been very clear that there was foreign interference and dissent from ation on the internet. and states have taken the time to fortify the election systems. but at the end of the day, there is a pandemic, and there are mail in ballots and absentee ballots, and it will take time to count. patience is necessary. all sides. a huge turnout means that people are super engage and i guess if anything, if we, even if we don't have a result, at least that is the good news that people realize that their vote counts. and even in the midst of a pandemic, they've used the instrument of voting, and that's the best thing for our democracy. but i think it also means that just because there's a higher turnout, it doesn't automatically mean that it's going to be a great showing for the democrats. and i think that's something that they've always thought. if we have high turnout, that means it's going to be smooth sailing for the democrats. and if it's a low turnout, then it's that message will stay because everybody thought sort of the demographic change was going to benefit the democrats, the democrats,

and eventually the minority vote will come out and support the democrats. but it's not as clear cut, because maybe when we look at the results of the selection hispanic voters are very heterogeneous. not everyone probably voted for. the democrats will have to see. it is an interesting question. there has been clearly been a surge, despite everything that you're going to be inserting of support in a suit of numbers for donald trump. well, i think, you know, he has the full apparatus of the republican party behind him. you know, despite being impeached despite, you know, there were numerous criminal inquiries into his behavior from before and during his present see republicans have rallied against him. he got them 3 supreme court justices during his term. that is more important to them than most other things. roe v wade, abortion is still a very, very important is a real genuine triumph because he has,

he has ensured that there will be conservative policymaking through the court for decades to come and not just at the supreme court. also, when you look at his imprint on the federal judiciary. so, you know, i think the problem that democrats often have is we have our eyes only on one ball of the white house as it is that we need also, you know, both houses of congress to pass legislation. we need the federal courts to uphold that legislation. and not turn it back. so donald trump and trump ism is absolutely here to stay as unfortunate as that is what interim place trump is. it's not the fine you know, the republican party had no, we don't have it. there, isn't it? there isn't. it was whatever donald trump says, this is true. this was their agenda. their agenda was literally what ever donald trump will do. is our agenda for the next one. i do think there are elements of protectionism, ethno nationalism. and like you said, loyalty, you know, sort of the supreme leader of the republican party, smaller government, lower taxes, correct? yes, and like i said, also ethanol nationalism which very much,

unfortunately drifts into dog whistling racism as well. and protectionism. donald trump has talked about tariffs and america being confronted with on free trade practices for years, even before he became president. and the thing is his policy with the trade hasn't worked, but people are still very loyal to him. it is almost like a cult like mentality where people, i remember watching an interview or somebody said, i don't wear a mask because donald trump says we don't need to. and then the reporter said, well then what if he said that you should wear a mask? then i would wear a mask. it's just so, you know, one thing occurred to me is the term in trump was hospitalized because of the pandemic is being effectively struck down birds and he was hospitalized. he came back down the host, but he was point reborn. he was like really energized i think it's that socialized

medicine that people say that they hate, but they clearly love. i think that i do. and he had like the like this experimental drugs and the there's steroids and all of that. all of the medicines that are not, most of the medicines are not yet available to regular people. he has and instead of being a bigger man and saying, i've gotten a contract that this, this is what i've learned. this is what we can do and kind of galvanize the nation and take control of this public health issue and said he said i've overcome it because i'm superman. well, those 200 more than 200000 people that died their lives are worth something to, and he's not any better than them because he was able to survive because of all of this amazing socialize here, the kind of he got. ok, quick views. well, where are we going to go next, where, what we're going to see him and the months to come in the months to come? so soon after we get past the summer 14th,

when the electors vote and decide we have to see if different slates of electors have been sent. so that's a very, you know, the constitutional crisis we're approaching is that if there are still no clear results by december 14th, then you might have circumstances where you have states where there's a democratic governor. but a republican controlled legislature. you could have in certain of those battleground states, the republican controlled legislature is sending their electors to washington. and the democratic governor saying, no, they're illegitimate. i'm sitting mine. so then we have to get into january. and as we get closer to an organization day, you know, that's january 20th, we have to have a new president. but then how is that going to decide it is mike pence as the president of the senate? is he going to cast the vote that keeps himself and his boss in office or whatever is going to see? so it's really over the next few weeks, we have to remain patient. we have to keep an eye on those battleground states on every single vote being counted on the lawsuits that are going to come and how the courts are going to respond to america. a country now of hope or

a country of fear. i think it's a country of division unfortunately, and this is something that i think we kind of all knew going in regardless of who wins this race. our country remains polarized. this is a deep seated issue in our country, and it's not going to disappear overnight. the question is, when will the tipping point come when americans see each other as you know, citizens together rather than on opposite sides of the aisle and graduate when is it going to come or is it going to come when it's my experience with so many americans both here in europe and in under the u.s. itself, is that people are always telling me we don't talk about it. we don't talk about politics. that's not going to go away. no, i don't think anything will come into the united states really comes to grips with what we are and how we're going to move forward. we have to finally recognize the

inequalities that happen within the black community within the brown community and take it from there. you can't sweep it under the rug and then hope that change will come. joe, one final, what i mean is that america's always been divided, you know, because it's in our constitution, it was founded on slavery. and that's something that we also need to keep in mind this electoral contact that i've been talking about, it goes back to the end of reconstruction. and so what we see is everything is just coming together now and it's unfortunate. ok, thank you very much. indeed for being answered. i love the dust has not settled on the u.s. election yet. i hope we have never thought i must give you plenty of food for thought. thanks for joining us. bye bye. interest. is a good

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enters the conflict zone with sarah charlie. my guest this week is involved with minister of foreign affairs and international trade. see both, you saw it as a former army chief, he was also the face of the military coup that propelled and none babatz of power. zimbabwe ever be able to see change of the political and economic reforms conflict. so for 13 double

it was the 1st international tribunal in history. the nuremberg trials, 75 years ago, high ranking officers of the nazi regime and where he joins you by the allied forces. were the 1st war criminals to be held accountable for their crimes by our government going through dollars pair of years. the writer of our 2 part series, the 3rd reich, the dog starts nov 12th on d. w. number of small thieves in my seat where i come from, write your remains uninformed, on the soft promise, meeting,

new ones and for mission. and when i was young, my country was growing. the more problematic people want to cause them to see it was my job to 2 in one side, not just say so as not everyone in the town. miss toombs, a missing husband from inside my enjoyment, more design even i was it with my choice to scott because given the way to transport the troops and in the best mom much, and this

is g.w. newsline from berlin. still no winner in the u.s. presidential election ballots still being counted in key battleground states. democrats claim the challenger, joe biden, is on track to win and get it over to every vote is counted every ballots. ground. frankly, we didn't win this fight with the authority to do so. president trump has claimed a victory even before killing is completed and he's threatening to go to the u.s. supreme court. so.