be the next to do so. the palestinians and their interests, however, have been completely ignored by towards iran is legendary. after he terminated the iran nuclear deal, sanctions and threats against tehran followed even an air strike on iran under trump cannot be ruled out, will transform policy become a security risk in the final days of his term in office. is there a biden doctrine? as far as i can see, there is a doctrine that he wants to to heal the wounds that trump has created. the doctrine is certainly to to reunite with the allies. but the u.s. is not an interesting country. it's a country driven by and trysts. so finally, what we see is a nicer,

nicer approach. good intentions, good didn't mention good intentions are back, which is a good thing, which is a great thing. and at the same time, the interests will stay the same. i mean, there's much more room for negotiations now, which is wonderful. and people who know their job and know have their expertise obviously having a party to be heard, which has not been the case in the last 4 years, only rarely has been the case. so i think that's definitely true, but it would be real. see, it is not the america we have seen 5 years ago of which we have known 5 years ago and under obama's america. tell me about the mood, the mood on the streets in iran. and how do you know this diplomatic, this new would be new diplomatic approach on the high and the people down on the

streets getting more and more angry and impoverished in iran. how does it together? i mean, i think, i mean 1st of all is a point to point out how the iranian leadership also thinks about this question of been fearing the ramifications of transmatch on the maximum pressure strategy. because of the economic, you know, comic sanctions that were quite onerous on the regime. and there was a lot of hopes pinned on the biden administration. so from the leadership side, it's quite clear from, from the societal level as of there are different estimations on, on the benefits of sanctions and, and some sections might be in favor of sanctions. but there are other important sections in sections of the population in iran who fear the, you know, the ramifications of economic sanctions on the general population, but bea's be it as it may, the general feeling for a few years. now,

at least in iran, is that they identify the policies of their own governments to be the most important factor in their own fate for their own. so. so foreign forces, although they have been very important impact upon iran be it's by action or by in action be it's the united states or europe will have a continuing impact. but there are no more, let's say there are no more illusions that there is a foreign savior. although the domestic situation in iran that is also not really, you know, filled with hope, pushes some people to think about a foreign savior. but i think also didn't prove to be, you know, aiding iranian democracy. yeah. so the biden administration is promising sake of a radically different approach. and when he, i just want to thank you know,

something like the american assurance that recognition of jerusalem as thing as the capital of israel is not the kind of policy that joe biden might reverse. where, where we expect to reverse is no, i don't think america will change a policy with the cap, with the embassy in jerusalem. and the recognition of the capital trump is hugely popular in israel. he's been very pro israel from the beginning as we, as we saw him. other thing he's done in the middle east, it's important. it's also written about in the u.s. presence is the, the, the peace with you even possibly saudi arabia. this is something that's getting, a lot of attention or got a lot of attention. the u.s., also from from liberal columnists who are praising trump, saying in other times he'd be nominated for the nobel peace prize. and i know in germany, trump is not that popular, and i was really interested to see the media hardly wrote about that, but there were quite a few liberal journalists here in general as well. yeah,

but i mean, in germany, if that had been obama, it would have had a lot different story, i think. so you see how unfair sometimes the media is towards trump, especially in europe. and that was a pretty big, important breakthrough. and i think that's something a legacy that will trump will be remembered for. the breakthrough with u.a.e. and saudi arabia would be actually more cautious because what actually happened under trump's watch is an official izing of some of the america's policies and realities in the region that were there. you know, so there was cooperation between all those states. you know, more currently than overtly and now it is official ised plus the fact that none of those regimes are, you know, democratic there are, you know, very authoritarian regimes. and they, by no account can, you know, represent the arab populations and their aspirations in the region so, so this is, you know, this is not a positive development, per se, that there is now a peace deal between beheading in saudi arabia. the u.a.e.

and israel. this is not something you know, that is going to lead necessarily to a positive development for the region and also 2 positive outcomes for the populations of the region. so there is a lot of, you know, euphoria about what was happening. although i think it's much of that you're for is misleading. it's also not the end of the story. i would say. i mean for instance, i mean you, you can, you can befriend the u.a.e. about at the end of the day. the problem is not solved with the palestinians, so you cannot ignore the meeting, put into that through the history books as they have solved. you know, it's not solved. i mean, the palestinian issue is still there. it's considered as failed. now. i mean, you have a huge frustration in the palestinian communities and just look to jordan for instance. i mean they take, they, they have taken like millions of palestinians. and where shall they go? actually, they just, they just leave the problem in the region and give it back to people who can deal

with it. and that's not what it, what it, what a world power or a superpower should do, is they should actually try to balance and they should try to, to heal what, what, what this, what this story in the history has done to those people, the palestinians, for instance, a general question because we don't have much time and i'm just interested in there in the sort of the philosophy of all the biden has said, he won't just trying to repair diplomacy. he'll try to reimagine diplomacy. i thought was an interesting juncture in his policy. foreign policy address just a couple days ago and i but i, but what does it mean, reimagine diplomacy? who's going to, who's the quickest? as much as i think that what trump did with all those states in the region is a p.r. stunt. the same could be applied to what just, you know, what you just quoted from biden. i mean, it would be very desirable if the united states would go for some creative

diplomacy and various, some of the, you know, very difficult spots of your theory of conflict in the region. but i'm actually not sure what he's really meaning by that one might see as far as relations between washington and europe and germany go with nato. i think it's pretty clear, i think the united states under biden, just like under trumpet obama wants germany and the nato allies in europe to do more for their own security. i think that's very clear. all the comments we've seen have been clear that germany needs to do more. some parties in germany want to do more. but this idea of a rebadging diplomacy, i mean biden's main challenge and something he's talking about is hide from climate is 19, and i think that's going to be it's number one priority and i think he'd like to see the world working together. maybe that's what he's talking about seeing countries working together as we're seeing with the vaccines that are coming out. these are cooperation saying place that's probably where biden is hoping for the

biggest breakthroughs as quickly as possible with the coronavirus. i mean, if you, if you, if you want to reinvent diplomacy, if you can't, you should not talk to one side only if we spoke about this huge success, which is a success that shoe normalize relations. but it is actually, if you actually build an alliance against a common enemy, and this is actually the target of this. and this is the only thing everybody can agree on. that's not really a promise which is very fruitful and naive. it's naive him. no, he's certainly not naive, and he has to deal with that. i mean it's progress in some way, but you also have to address the other issues which has not been addressed by, by, by, by trump. he just tried to dry out to suffocate iran, which is actually quite unlikely that it's really sexy. pts trump's last days in

office, a lame duck on raging bull. that was the question we asked at the beginning of the show once you're on something, i think there is no easy answer to this and i don't know what it was and what is going to happen. but we're going to see some, some acts that might be symbolic, that he wants to address. you know, his supporters are there too and he wants to guarantee that they will continue to do so. in the next 2 years, i think will be or more lame duck to be playing more golf in a key pardoning prisoners and people who have helped him. but i think playing golf is actually a good thing. the more he plays golf, the less damage you can perhaps to the final word i hope as well that he has he had can improve his handicap but. but at the same time you don't see it more trumps. more trying to come to thank you very much for joining us here on to the point this week. that's an interesting place to finish. i will give you plenty of food for thought if we have good bye,

i'm sure. for

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