president. challenging. the credible story. starts december 10th g.w. . the ethiopian leader who won a nobel prize for ending one of africa's longest running conflicts has for the past month been waging a war of his own making in early november prime minister obviously announced that he had ordered troops to respond to an allegedly deadly attack on a government military base in ethiopia grey province leaders there say the to grant people are being blamed for tensions that surfaced as i'll be implemented reforms and postponed elections due to cove it can heal is divided country or will the

fighting resume our title today ethiopia's. from nobel peace laureate to amount of war. and here to answer that question are free outstanding guests it is a great pleasure to welcome them starting with prince. he descends from the family of the ethiopian emperor an author and analyst he also works as an economic consultant on africa and he says the military operation of the ethiopian government in the region did not target the people who take right but the ruthless t p l f party. and it's great to have mcconnell in miss gainor with us once again he is head of migration and diversity at the highlights both foundations and he says the civil authorities here. it's just the beginning of

a long conflict. and finally we're honored to have with us move us all the money she's ambassador extraordinary and plenty potential of the federal democratic republic of ethiopia and she says ethiopians current situation is not a civil war nor an armed conflict it's a law enforcement operation aimed at restoring the constitutional order of the country. so let me start by asking you dear madam ambassador there's clearly some disagreement amongst you about the scope of the fighting in a province you say it was a law enforcement operation but the fact is ethiopian generals spoke of being at war the fighting did last over 3 weeks and i witness reported both artillery duels and also shelling of the capital so that doesn't really look like lunch.

actually when you say it's your water or something like that if it is a different country or different. different people try to fight each other lose equal standing but these are criminals who deliberately attack the national the national defense forces which was there for more than 20 years keeping the country keeping magali and these people not only doing this. extraordinary very devastating. crime they have been doing the same for 20 years but government was very very patient in the trying to fold the issues with with peace and reconciliation where they rejected all the requests of coming to table to talk because they adore want the country to stay and this is a need on the top because they need this country even for more than 27 years and their name was still together liberation front we don't know what most from whom and when to liberate the guy they have been living it for 27 years and now what we

are talking about is this is a criminal it's not a great people that the people suppressed suffering like any other people europeans the issue is with. this clique which they want to this month is a good thing with allies and agreeing so many crimean criminal act including causing killing planned financing designing so of the country for 2 years or this was too tolerated even though they deny the presence of denials of prisoners of the federal government they deny everything because of when the term is extended according to the law because of corbett who's test of the world and then they say they don't accept the federal government they make illegal election which is not illegal and did it all unconstitutional or this was tolerated finally you know what they did and did you expect any government to sit down in the sea when the country is dismantled is a country for vanity is become a question in the country will be dispersing this. isn't acceptable we want to dig

in a little deeper in just a moment about the background of the ethnic tensions in t.k. prague province but because i'm asking you what's your response to what we've just heard would you also say that this is a law enforcement operation you're opening statement referred to a long running conflict ahead and well taking the historical background of the tensions between the central government and the region i'm now looking more into the region and less to the. leading force integrating but it was also part of the government in ethiopia so taking the story can speak that from this region they went a long standing war to go regional was fighting 17 years against this interim government which was the military. mario and which top of the and then came into power so i'm very much aware but also concerned

that this tension between the federal government and the government of the guy would lead to instability in the region such region of the great and also could never. tensions which has been there for a long time so not only on the government basis but also and it could be as is that's what i'm very much afraid of and again i do want to talk about that in a little more depth later but just on that one point law enforcement operation or military action what i would consider it is a military action because the dimension of. demeter actions taken it was more than a law enforcement which i think would have been more a police operation but this was a more complex and more. with more

armaments and even the number of people who are perspective. was a massive one. day let me get you to weigh in on this and also what you tell us a little bit about what you're hearing from friends and family in ethiopia if as your opening statement says this military operation didn't target the people why have tens of thousands of people fled the region. of the supposed reason because they know that if some fighting breaks out in that part of the world. things might happen. that would be dangerous for their lives i think it was a precautionary measure by most of them who fled as we deal there were already $20000.00 people in the suit out in the early days of the military operation.

but basically i find it whether what exactly what we call it i think is immaterial one thing that is true is a very tragic situation that for so many times now that ethiopians i take it here putin's and he appeared blood is being shifted but i think this is not the fault of the central government it is it's it is it is it is the right not only the right but it is obliged to maintain the territorial integrity and national no and the national no sovereignty of the country and could not allow itself to just sit there while its troops were being massacred in the front of it read by the province of tikrit so i think as far as who was responsible we don't need to question it at all though we have many many times many ways

many. the government did really take its time to want to negotiate with them prior to what had happened in the know the. jew to the hebrews of the t.p.m. live they declined the. fish with the central government before and that is why military measures to be taken. we just heard princess rattle refer to bloodshed madam ambassador the prime minister has said that not a single life was lost but can we be sure of that the fact is that there were communications to a province were cut off there was no internet connection and independent media have not really been permitted to cover the fighting. explain the nation was what you say when these people. being the country's biggest station

of the national defense force and disease himself has announced that they have accused the have a condition of all of the biggest i mean ition and announce exact they can do to destroy the whole country and including under some about what have you and do expect the government to sit down having or dissemination in the tie to to destroy the country and dismantle the country and we want our country new peace and obviously why the people of the left lived or others fled to the country into the neighboring countries that they know what they have been doing long ago when they were in the jungle they hide in the society themselves kids our own people and pretend as if it was done from the other side even last time they manufactured it you have to put a uniform to be uniform and they are people wearing it to pretend to deceive the world that. the government is killing this is always a do this and the world knows these that the people know when they are coming to the should do they want to make

a shoot the people the people will be affected themselves might kill them they leave that's why they know how the in my car they see they kill the civilians that's what they are afraid about and they have to live otherwise it's not because again the government you see now when the government does if they give orders i mean nation they gave them to fight they give it to the government nobody forces them that is the one who give information to the government they think them people know it people in the think that have no problem you see live together in peace is only as it's a problem. what do we know about the fighting that was going on for the past 4 weeks as i said the prime minister says there was no blood spilt do we know that for sure apparently eye witnesses have have contended that there were deaths where we have a number of positions and counter-accusations as we all know in war the truth is the 1st casualty so it's very hard to verify. many of the information and we know

that there are different versions we know that civilians has been harmed so far and we have heard that the original group of human rights groups in ethiopia. tried to verify the situation and could also find some of the facts that probably people if militia may have been involved in that and a bit but there are also casualties from the gray side that the regional government accuse the central government militia. it shouldn't be necessarily. the government's. deeds but you know in war situations militias take their own autonomous measures as well we have to know that and the 2nd thing is of course we have a number of. humanitarian crisis we have i.d.p.'s internally displaced displaced persons around 1000000 within the region we have something like 44000 refugees who

fled to sudan and unity is the meeting that if. armed conflict is not going to stop immediately that's maybe up to 200000 people may flee to sudan so we have a clear humanitarian crisis in this region and we need to immediately say to any conflict again we will come back to that shortly but i'd like to take a closer look at the role of the prime minister because in fact only a year ago the multigrain legal abbey i've met with his mixed christian muslim background was being compared to nelson mandela barack obama seen as the bright hope of a country that has long been torn by ethnic conflict so how did the nobel peace laureate come to be involved in military conflict. pictures from 1998 tens of thousands of people were killed and hundreds of thousands fled in the territorial dispute between ethiopia and eritrea. is also

a soldier in this war. when he became prime minister in 2018 the political scientist embarked upon an unprecedented course of reform he extended his hand to eritrea for reconciliation and return to territories. liberalize the economy removed old officials and met with leaders from partially divided ethnic groups. and i've celebrated by his followers and internationally hailed as a beacon of hope. for the nobel peace prize for 2019 to ethiopia the prime minister all of it all but the tide turns just one year later. began a military offensive in tikrit in the northern part of the country. an ethnic minority and an important part of the political elite feel that they are being ousted by the new head of government whose family is descended from ethiopians to

largest ethnic groups. will continue his course of reform. it's a pretty abrupt shift at least that's what it looks like from outside to that the prime minister has made ambassador this idea that the prime minister represented the bright hope of africa was it inflated expectations on the part of those of us looking from outside. no it was perfect even today if he is the hope of africa and why and this is a person leading a country when he's unless he keeps the his country's integrity and safety peace and stability how can you talk of his neighbors and what he is still working to stabilize and keep the peace and make rule of law in order otherwise if you cannot keep the peace with your own country how can you be at peace on both side of peace laureate to what that's what the lord it peace laureate sheepy is because he make

a peace in syria and or for the neighboring countries especially for italia and again today while his country is facing this challenge with those who want to leave the country unless i don't the country leave the country be destroyed how can he see don't in the sea with dispersed itself as dismantled is impossible in the heat is his duty as a government as a leader to keep the little fellow in the to keep the peace. and or soul. of the country princess or it would you agree with that assessment or would you say that he perhaps moved too far too fast with his reform process and thereby help to set in motion the tensions that erupted into grey i wouldn't say that at all he did not move too fast in some of the things he moved too slow there

are many theo kids who believe that what he did today against the t.p.m. left should have been done 2 years ago when the whole reformist movement started because what they have been doing in the past 2 years is to really to take care that his reformist agenda did not take place and they were involved with everything that was there to destabilize ethiopia whether it was the killing and massacring of so many people in this. south part of the hands whether that or whether it was the dismantling of ethiopian statutes in london believe you me the hand of the t. p.l.f. was always that so i don't think it is a matter of having moved too far and i think oh so we can only come to rest if the government will very soon declare the t. p.l.f.

a terrorist organization. otherwise things i'm not going to calm down. if you would give us a little bit of background on these a long running ethnic tensions in ethiopia with degrade but also elsewhere and also why did they explode particularly after this reform process began what ethiopia how is the constitution of to appear is a multi-ethnic country and which has been living in different models it has been living in a very peaceful manner as the neighboring if this is so the mother if the city is one of its resources actually of ethiopia and whatever happened whatever political system was raining in ethiopia the people managed to leave peacefully together but then you have also undemocratic political systems which were using the multi

ethnicity and the regional tensions there always tensions when there are more if the cities which has been always ignited by by different local leaders and so on and governments has been always trying either to rule by heart as a military dictatorship of minister tomorrow who's trying to keep you know the whole country you know by force and they can you stop it by city people if because the guy region was actually also historically marginalized as many other regions and then they used this marginalization as a political resource to mobilize and topple the government and then and that was the 2nd other issue that the government created a constitution which is based on ethnic federalism so and this is one of the sources of conflict of course with you know some exit options even to secede

if he doesn't work within. the federal state and this was like an exit option for too great as well if it walks it's fine if it doesn't work maybe and this is i think what happened as. to who was actually the 1st who came peacefully to power which is you know a very positive action and there was the reforms but then you know he came into a situation where you have some kind of. states within the ethiopian state there was a 2 great state which is a kind of parley situation and then you have to deal with this very complicated situation and that is also the historical. i think that mentioned we we need to look when you deal differences with conflicts that you cannot simply solve militarily because of their historical complexity ambassador princess at heart i said if anything perhaps the prime minister should have acted sooner to crush as

nick resentments province in fact abby wanted to govern with a new style and when he came into office his motto was may damage which means something like harmony as i understand it was he perhaps naive was the turbulence that we are now seeing to be expected should he have perhaps acted to be more with greater toughness in the beginning no no no he's not naive and i've done that is showing forgiveness and what he was trying is it's not like an evolutionary to kill and finish those leads a country with abuse of human rights and be corruption looting the country's money he said let us leave the part what they have done wrong let us take was they have done good and will for a result any graduate's out any conflict so that we keep everybody on board anything in the democratic election that's why people are against ib because he was too patient he was too pushing kneading for the. even this and keep them to use and

huff by trying to call me people regarding the federalism it's not is no saying anything that he knows that it is in europe as a multinational diverse country each and every things that could be managed with that we take. any type of fidel isn't dependent on the discourse of the society each and every people each and every region when they go after this election what's willing to do is how the government $200.00 distinct would depend on the discourse of the people decision but the issues of fear if the if he's against the set of ideas in that to go is going there why did he allow. the kids that he's not against but we have to choose as a society which is good for the people but they don't know what they need they need a list we need it to appear and this would really help that shouldn't exist that's what's happening now to

a report that we just saw concluded by asking what will become of the reform process what is your take on that do you think that the prime minister can and will return to a course of renewal and democratization or might we now be seeing the beginning of a pattern that's all too familiar where a leader comes into office with big promises and big games and then gradually moves down toward the road toward dictatorship to be honest for there to be a great disappointment for me if this would happen but this is not what i see. coming up for me the root of evil. is the theo pin constitution a constitution which calls itself which calls it an ethnic duration ethnic federation that means if you is the only state in the whole world with a system like that there is no other country in this world with an ethnic federation and that is what drew in the us if you have became the most the racist

country in the world where the only place in africa where in our. identity cards you have the word to race written on it all all politics until 2 years ago was based upon with mysa tea parties where ethnic parties are bored with ethnic and you know we have seen in the world where you have ethnic borders it's nick is not very far away and in order to say no to this but ts to federalism the great federalist by so what we theo kidney is a democratic drop system where all $120.00 ethnic groups feel a part of what big country and still believe they are the boss to of their. own and 1st they were just about out of time. you did say you

think the conflict will continue so i really must ask about the effects on the region as a whole 40000 refugees already in the vulnerable country of sudan somalia also right next door equally vulnerable ethiopia used to be viewed as an anchor of stability in africa is that over. i do not think it's over but. probably the tension is so big that it's me also include because it's where is directly. to great bensouda. may be involved in the one or the other way so i think we are on the verge of. the stability if we don't manage to quickly come to a table and negotiate the differences so i think militarily cannot be solved what we can do and what should be done is on the table thank you very much thanks to all

of you for being with us here today and thanks to all of you for tuning in see you set. up a couple of america. to

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this is a lie from but venezuelan opposition leader one quiet 0 calls for a boycott of sunday's election claiming they are rigged but leaving the door wide open for a big win for president nicolas muddles ruling party also on the program the final additional styles of the pro hinge are refugees to an island in the bay of bengal where they were promised a better life but human rights groups want off disastrous conditions. and many are calling it a seismic shift to fulfill one of robbers anon.