each of both sparred and labor crews in stuart of cologne lysis meanwhile snuck past hoffenheim i was by defeated abilify elza freiburg of limbless shaka on tuesday dortmund edged past braman frankfurt and gladbach slated to a draw as did chicago and new on bear then added hair to berlin and minds. update at this hour don't forget you can always get the latest around the clock on our web site. n.p.r. richardson and the team thanks for joining us. the fight against the corona virus pandemic. has the rate of infection been developing what does the latest research say. information and context the coronavirus update coming. on t w. how does

a virus spread. just through the top. show is called spectrum if you would like any information on the crown of. science topic you should really check out our podcast you. can also find us at. science. it may be a global pandemic but when it comes to individual nations the response has been anything but uniform. while some governments were quick to implement lockdowns a mask wearing others only reacted when the virus had already retired.

the crisis has exposed major philosophical divides over the questions like the role of government or the definition of individual responsibility. as a result of outcomes have varied greatly but the experience of some countries has also helped shape the response of others in this time of crisis why. can we learn from each other. welcome to your covert 19 special i'm chris colburn berlin germany has gone into a 2nd hard coronavirus lockdown with all non-essential shops schools and daycare is closed the move comes after less stringent measures fails to break a 2nd wave of infections even after months governments still seem to be pondering over how to best battle the virus the south american country of your of why seems to have found a viable way. this year has been a stressful time for the dead but i see in my own family in montevideo again i was

born 2 weeks before the start of the lockdown in itself a joyful occasion but they couldn't share it with anyone or get any help because anna christina and her husband my teen along with the children had to go into quarantine they was a suspected case of covert 19 in their circle of friends. they were there in the bottle so it was terrible for us because the grandmothers couldn't come. and fathers all my brothers no one could come in the baby it was really tough. now 7 months later the world looks very different the borders between europe and its neighbors are still closed but the small country is so far doing well with less than a 100 deaths and only a few 1000 cases overall although infections have now risen sharply again schools and universities closed for a few weeks in the spring it was the same for shops but now the streets are busy

again many people voluntarily wear masks in public there's still a need for caution but there's also an obvious sense of relief that things are not worse than they are the mood is also upbeat at the pastor research institute when the pandemic started in march they were able to respond immediately with nationwide testing the testing kits came from these laboratories they say the approach taken by the government helped. i think one of the big advantages and i compared to other countries was that both the president and disk or on a virus team were good supported our scientists right from the start of so that the scientists were then able to make decisions. for decades here of why has invested in its welfare state and that appears to be paying off now in the crisis the country is home to around 3500000 people. poverty is still definitely an issue in some areas and impossible to open that in our capital. europe was former

president jose mohican is one of those credited with reducing the gap between rich and poor during his 5 years in office he was president until 2015 and invested heavily in health education and social welfare now 85 years old he agreed to give us an interview at his home but it's. a certain level of prosperity allowed us to develop a social democracy. that has shaped the entire country. not only structurally and materially but also in terms of our way of life. we are now a country known for its tolerance where people are very civilised in their dealings with each other but also when there are differences of opinion or economic crises are going to go. back to the. family they're going to enjoy meeting

regularly with relatives and friends again. so what do they think is the secret of europe was relative success in the crisis so far apart from good political decisions they think the country just got lucky to a certain extent. perhaps it's a different mutation of the virus that we have had that means the cases aren't as bad as in europe and. perhaps it's the climate yeah. what a lie they were in my. head no way there must be some other reason. a few months ago they never thought their lives would improve again so quickly but none of them will forget the anxious period around the birth any time soon. let's get more on the euro one way and whether it can serve as a model for others with marie ball field she's the director of the latin america division of the german institute for global in areas studies she joins me via skype

from hamburg welcome to w. marriage of latin america and the caribbean have been heavily hit by the pandemic and its economic ramifications what really has done better so far to cope with the crisis well little guy had better health care and social infrastructure going into the pandemic and so when the pandemic hit the government was well prepared to mobilize its state infrastructure to help with both the health response and make sure the populations were able to stay inside shelter at home and still feed their families and the current government is also following a lot of lawyers a little voice a variance tradition a unifier has been unifying rather than. divisive and publish and trusts the government so they did as the government said and finally little guy also had a pioneering vi are all of just who was able to with colleagues invent his own test and their health with massive rapid testing right from the beginning and

so i think those 3 factors have been very important in helping the little guy weather the pandemic much better than any other latin american country so in your opinion what is the take away here for other countries particularly those that might have less money to spare for a solid. health care system. there is no better prevention then being well prepared also from a self social infrastructure point of view i mean government simply need to invest more resources in building a basic you need welfare state which includes health care and emergency income provision now since november then you're in search of numbers have been rising drastically and are now peaking in europe why would happen there. well i think i'm not an epitome ologist but i think what happened there is also happening in germany all over europe and north america and so you're being spared from this 2nd wave i

think the rates are still lower than they are in germany for example i think currently i see your capacity is about 56 percent in total boy so they're still doing ok and i believe that they're going to announce stronger measures today you know they've never had a mandatory lockdown like many other latin american countries had and they've announced they don't plan to do that but they do plan to exploit their citizens to behave well and responsibly through the christmas holidays just like germany has in many ways little boys is not so different from germany's but now you are an expert on latin america what exactly needs to be done to protect people at high risk social disadvantage during a pandemic you absolutely have to ensure that they have the means to stay home and isolate and that's where there is no easy solution except investing socially more for the future and it was a rude awakening for most of latin america when the pandemic happened governments

told their citizens to stay home and most citizens could not do that because they simply didn't have the means to support themselves through the pandemic and there's been a lot of rapid state building going on in the region to try to reach these disadvantaged populations and the government to have done that are probably in a better position to weather the next pandemic or the next economic crisis but it does take effort. and investment and i think that's the only way that governments can. weather these pandemics without devastating human human impacts. director of the for latin american studies thank you for your insights. and now it is time to answer your questions about the coronavirus here is our science correspondent eric williams. what does the nation's data say about how much schools and universities contribute to community threat this sounds like one

question but it's actually 2 so so let's split it up kids and schools 1st there's been conflicting information on just how common transmission is among children but in general the current consensus is that unlike in other respiratory diseases schools are really driving the spread of covert 19 at the beginning of this week national geographic reported exclusively on a major new study from iceland and said that its conclusions were that kids under 15 are only around half as likely to transmit the virus as adults are that data hasn't been published yet but if the report is correct it would provide corroborating evidence for a phenomenon that many experts now accept which is that the older a child is the more infectious they are if they themselves contract covert 19 we

still don't really know why but outbreaks in high schools for example are happening at a much higher rate than they are in elementary schools so what about universities well college students are physiologically adults and they seem to transmit like other adults do 20 year olds are not the ones who are most in danger if they catch the virus but they can apparently have a big impact on its spread in the wider community although it's hard to put an exact number on that impact analysis carried out by the new york times. showed that in communities throughout the u.s. for instance deaths in kilties that were home to universities and large populations of college students are consistently outstripping deaths in counties without them but those deaths are not happening among the college students they're happening

among older people in those communities who are getting cope at 19 in greater numbers in those counties so what the data is telling me at least so far is that while schools tend to reflect spread in a community they don't drive it universities on the other hand appear to do that possibly in a big way. and social thanks for watching stay safe and suitable. enter the conflict zone with sarah kelly more than 2 years ago ethiopian prime minister abi ahmed road to power with a wave of hope but now he's wasting military offensive on forces in the northern t.t.y. region my guest this week from addis ababa is the take up bra ethiopian minister for democratization where's the peaceful future his prime minister promised

conflicts are. next talk d.w. . one continent. 700000000 people. with their own personal stories. we explore every day life for. what europeans fear and what they hope for. some peace on their own. even 60 minutes on d w. in these challenging times it's especially important to us wish you happy and healthy . the current of ours has kept us apart from family and friends all due.

to submission the jury discounted the season we're going to deal with you we're here with. you live for. someone to remind you we're all in this together we wish you happy holidays during christmas everyone even very merry christmas eve merry christmas and stacy happy holidays everyone. to your happy holidays everyone stay safe. i'll be your mom still out of it if you didn't out of the spoken to in the right place how could you say this with 100 percent more than 2 years ago ethiopian prime minister i'll be off my road to power on a wave of hope for peace and democracy in the longer oppressive country but now he has waged a military offensive on forces in the northern tier every chip sparking

a humanitarian crisis my guest this week from addis ababa is i think a bra minister for democratization where's the peaceful future his prime minister promised. ministers a bigger bra a welcome to conflict zone thank you very much to me of last year prime minister abi ahmed was awarded the nobel peace prize and in his acceptance speech he said the following war is the epitome of hell i know because i have been there and back i've seen brothers slaughtering brothers older men and women children trembling in terror now fast forward one year later he's led a military offensive against the t.p.o. left group in the northern region of thousands are feared dead has he led ethiopia into the hells of war that he described one year ago moto hooo. ari is

a man of peace. you know he has deep convictions and peace needs your support immunity to some country because as you said he is going to search or do such difficult times so his his believes on peace is informed by his own personal experience from the good cop car you know it is not our stories to go to war we left no stone unturned to settle the difference that we had with libya if the people lived chose to give even here so you know their lives were a great fighting force democracy is very eyeline element 40 perry people in it he's used to say this is by the muzzle of the building with so nama other. right that of the difference so dialogue and discussion didn't live

game was to game out is the for peace. if you hear and. and we will talk about how you got here and in fact but for now i would like to just focus on the situation on the ground because the u.n. and n.g.o.s they say that there is an urgent need right now for independent monitoring of the human rights situation after the international n.g.o.s mysie international brought to the world's attention the massacre in my car. they say the following that there are possibly hundreds of civilians stabbed hacked to death with knives machetes the u.n. says that if a party to this conflict was involved it would constitute a war crime again this is an international ngo that brought this incident to the world's attention would it not be advisable to have an independent international investigation and monitoring of what is happening right now and to grow on the ground that those of us were waiting for some was that. the government.

is gone you know we have. human to human to human rights commission but the forum or your mother it was that it. is the resume me he was as good as in the whole he has his years of immunity which means bloggers. and he can consult with reebok. and i suspect that's this constant is coming from the deeply held convictions or it comes from northern ministers they're only i'm not you it's 60 minutes of issues that are out there. who impartially investigate human rights. issues i think that the issue that is is being brought up is not that that africans can administer it it's that you are one of the parties to the

conflict in fact and your government's response in fact to those calls for international investigations has been and i'm quoting here we do not need a babysitter we will invite assistance only if the government feels that it had failed to investigate again you're one of the parties to the conflict that doesn't sound like transparency. in this edition it's not the us it is an independent human rights commission little lady. who was just 2 years down the line here talking about it which what i think he's resuming of as good as any. so i don't think anyone from a minister international or human rights which would be better to. look at this could ability and his investigative part so you have to read your report before asking any question i would like you to go and leave his is in this edition so just in case you have questions challenging your bluff and believing that we are it's

a horribly donnybrook at him he's human rights commission. is going to let's look at some of these allegations more deeply and i'd just like to take you through them . for example they claim that your forces have been party to the violence refugees who have made it to sudan they also echo those claims for example c.n.n. spent a number of days interviewing refugees who were crossing over the border and to sit down and they describe to the following the if you'll be an army entering in. to a town telling civilians they are safe then the soldiers leave and other armed groups such as the amara militia in the final aligned with the ethiopian army arrive. there are concerns that this is descending into an ethnic conflict the conflict in te cry. is the final being brought in to finish the to grier's as one refugee described it. i'm hundreds and billions of years of war

thousands of years we'll have our army makes its way if you don't you tell us to you have been coming out in months in mass chanting in one common goal who. are our special. descent it is a stupid lives. apart. crossing that administrative elimination of that if you don't do it to degrade so that my heart went to my heart our special forces and the muslims do you acknowledge the presence of the funnel because a spokesperson for example for your government at 1st denied the existence of the final militia but then confusingly acknowledged that the militia of the un horror region were engaged to the extent of securing border towns between the 2 regions and you have refugees describing this this fear of this force are they there are more and somehow diminish just. on was it used group b.

use group is not anywhere. it is a modest speech and just gives it away just on us without pot budget to be a. military establishment and. they were forced to defend. them of killing anyone in fact we had to rescue. people. which was booked so they can also use them whatever even for more than 2 years so there's not anything we could accomplish use other. version there is no what is going to be true since. this is not even a civil war but in the summer let's look at another claim because you say that it's a law and order operation as you've just articulated right now but there is growing fear that the conflict in fact is drawing in regional actors for example eritrea and could impact regional stability of the us cites the following they say that they are aware of credible reports of the eritrean military involvement in te gras

and that they view this as a grave development as we mentioned earlier prime minister he made peace with eritrea that is part of what won him the nobel peace prize are they now an ally that has helped you fight your military offensive. in the lower middle east. has been taken. in keeping you skipping missions. was a problem of yelling was that you know so she's i'm so torn of those that say that will become a good book and. i can issue 100 percent terms in one of them one can sometimes get out of it him out of his opening in i want to i'm wondering though how you can assure and 100 percent terms when the americans say that they have satellite images they say intercepted communications anecdotal reports from the region also add to

that we know eritrea for example just for contacts is a country that has long face accusations of large scale human rights abuses and there are about 100000 eritrean refugees that are located in tikrit so there's a lot at stake here the united nations says the following. over the last month we have received an overwhelming number of disturbing reports from eritrean refugees into grave being killed being abducted being forcibly returned to eritrea and if confirmed these actions would constitute a major of violations of international law these are horrifying reports can you not guarantee their safety and how could you say this with 100 percent we are the son of the largest. global we are known for hosting the refugees with all due respect that is that is very loud in room commission you know if you do sir. we will take your career there if there is more of it in an arm or putting in

together so there is no evil is it implicit establishment coming out like. refugees if that was the case would have been the 1st to stand against it and then soon make sure that our bridges are safe but is very wrong that is there for submission you know we still believe go on one of our because we're better than ever even though it was one of the reasons behind her i'm still with you of that. now it is being abused the cemented into our leaders running for the levers or having our safe. mr minister i'd just like to bring it back to the actions of your government though because your government says that it's returning in fact eritrean refugees that have fled in the northern region of to human rights watch says that it's unacceptable the u.n. calls those reports alarming. so you're essentially returning people that fled in

fear many of them fled went to the capital they're afraid of being exposed to eritrean violence how do you explain that to the world amid amid these reports amid these fierce from these refugees we can only really anything was a consultant of the refuse to go is no safe republican on whom. you guys it's you you know so you should stay in a certain delimits list. will be. singular and there are no save lives once they've been saved will come to me that's what it is and it's not being done for. shipping government believes in consultation with. its beliefs but if you just respect the and did your mother suspect that it was not on a petition remember the remember you say that it's a safe and stable situation about we have reports of 4 aid workers that have been killed a u.n.

security team seeking access near an eritrean camp for refugees was also shot at by here for since that doesn't look good how is it possible that a u.n. team could not be coordinated in the region are or are you afraid of or were you afraid of what they might see. if you're if you happen to read the assessment you should. should just look at it over 2 days ago they have a totally. this is a problem. for surface we're not supposed to go so it's implicit we are building bridges roads by that if we have started still it's listen . we have established we can connectivity we're going to be and out of these limited the entire region from this joined up so i just said

the international community mr minister is not convinced of that the un says that we have reports that the fighting continues between federal forces and the t p l f and affiliate in the leisure and goldeyes they describe the situation as worrying as volatile as spiraling out of control with an appalling impact on civilians ultimately i just like to bring it back to the fact that abi has he has pursued a military solution to this conflict ultimately while your international allies on the continent and beyond have expressed a lot of concern they've called for dialogue there was an african union delegation actually in the capital that was reportedly not even allowed to meet with the t.p.o. laugh by your government is that your understanding of more democracy blocking dialogue why not talk. to one thing i'm talking to you from i this. whether i'm

a rehab it was in ice on the ground where what's happened before now but in public and i'm telling you you're a safe and i think it's good to. so they go. because because us troops you know these is just a lot you know protracted it's loud information that you are getting does not in any way explain what's going on as a drop. yellow can only happen between 2 reasonable parties. for the past year and a half as we have been beginning to believe to come to the table and settle out because that is not the assessment by the way of others who are following the situation because you came to power promising democracy promising peace after decades of repressive roar but in their transition chatham house says the following about the lack of inclusion has angered the opposition groups with whom the government has had little genuine dialogue could you have done more to bring the

country together for a more inclusive dialogue from the very beginning could all the bloodshed have been avoided this government was able to look at the least. and solve the problem which was a longstanding one who. we can with we can do it with our brothers in europe we don't have a problem this government you cannot. accuse this government of lacking culture of yellow this government is all about democracy reform and doubt but even if it's not used to lease we're going to talk about it don't worry if you're normal i want to be used very important for us to believe killed our soldiers i seriously believe killed women in uniform i did a sleep which government will tour exist with your government will u.s. government will you get german government which is. not terrorist actions cannot fight you fight your minister. the international crisis group mr minister of the

international crisis group says the following that this conflict runs the risk of ripping the state asunder the t.p.o. left as a valley into fight on there are reports of clashes continuing on the ground experts say we're seeing the beginning of a drawn out insurgency and yet your government is declaring victory you're saying that you have the situation under control after the offensive on the kelly your prime minister even said that that no citizen was killed is in your declaration of victory premature amid all of those assessments look. at it what's a look around we know what is happening out there we. simply know there's an. end up him some pretty much. the war is over but mr minister it is not just the region of to grow that is

a concern ethnically motivated and intercommunal violence have been on the rise there have been reports of about 150 fatal clashes in the past year some of those instead it incidents have estimates of hundreds killed millions have been internally displaced and now the united nations is warning of a heightened risk of genocide war crimes ethnic cleansing crimes against humanity when you look more broadly at the rest of your country are you on the brink of a potential genocide does the state run the risk of breaking up are you the next yugoslavia that the negative report that you would use also argues that look we have more than a century remark making you consider what if you'll be a user of that or the hottest items used to. make it so that it was sold at the. the resort that he'll be on is is more than a bit useful it in the collapse models of ice it has into the wind of 40 years ago

so you just don't deny we had more than 2000000 internet displaced persons no none of them are. really used to me and living a 2nd life so this does not the president does not explain the ground that is not the situation that is described by international n.g.o.s amnesty international reports for example that your security forces are part of the novel and they say frontline 60 in the region is your only excuse in the region of a romeo for example this is obvious political base they quote the carrying out of extrajudicial executions arbitrary arrests of detention torture other forms of ill treatment forced evictions destruction of property human rights violations serious accusations they've called on your government to do more to stop it where's the action you know if you. look at.

and most of you are there is there are some. sort of disease on the whistle. now there to submitted but if you number if you see the situation or years ago they were both part of the writing group now the committee has rejected that it is a community use of inciting against people we are not involved in extrajudicial killings they need to leave for. 2 and a half years ago close a chapter of us i'd like to move on now to democracy because you're the minister for democratization as we mentioned in the beginning you've delayed the general election this was your 1st real shot at democracy after decades of oppressive rule now opposition political parties mainly from these ethnic erroneous strongholds they say they're being intimidated amnesty describes the following the crackdown on

dissenting political views ahead of general elections the leading opposition figure has even been jailed how legitimate and democratic can your election really be amid what is being described as a crackdown. it is not the lives religion is i'm actually looking. for some oh well it's that person and. you know it is you to get 90 more than 50 countries. leads you to listen to what you call the 90 i'm not an exception to what i was asking me mr minister i'm asking you this question because you have somebody who was detained and jailed because he has a critical view of your prime minister abi ahmed or at least reportedly that's why he says that he was detained in fact there seems to be little appetite to tolerate criticism even abroad i'd like to bring you to another case and this is one of the u.k. based academic who was among those who actually nominated adi for his peace prize

he learned through reports apparently on ethiopian state broadcaster that police had accused him of quote using international media to destroy the country in response to his critical interviews that he's done on international media is this what opponents of your government can expect expect in the country he says he fears going back to the country he thinks there's a significant risk of him being detained. you know as you said. the one based in what's the mood. there but what we have you know more than that i mean people who outlawed we're hoping to come to your view we have lived exactly we have got to be to know exactly so if you don't know him. well you know just need your get moving freely whereas just in order. to come together jalen just a solution we have for us winning or losing this election is equally equally

significant lose this election will be the saddest party who accepts that atoms or 2 competitive election and hand over power mr minister how about press freedom and your country the international federation of journalists reports the following a wave of arrests against journalists covering the ongoing conflict in the t grab region they say that since november 7th at least 6 journalists have been arrested on unknown charges the ethiopian human rights commission has expressed concern there's also reports that the government has repeatedly cut off the internet journalists barred from traveling to teague right to cover this all this election that that they to gran's had back in september a new law criminalizing hate speech apparently has a provision that can be used as a lock up peaceful dissidents is that how you define democracy is it a freedom of the press a central pillar you know if you're going to have a committed himself to. eat in ethiopia. or didn't notice he's in prison

because of the goodness of sex. a journalist journalist can happen to commit a crime on his individual capacity more than once. you cannot believe someone from criminal prosecution just because these are your maps your journalism is not an immunity to run away from accountable just comes out of the masters of us nationals a lot mr minister briefly before we go you're. not asked. if you typically have cats in the me there is a car that was taken to coming up with you released years ago showing you can little fishes well how does a minister. mr minister you've cut the internet before another regions but briefly before i go i just like to ask you where is the spirit of madame or the spirit of coming together and synergy that abi described that he promised the country when he took office in this conversation we talked about i think violence

a military offensive in the north concerns that you are backsliding on security and democracy is this the best that you can offer our offer ethiopia where's the synergy that was promised. not when whenever i would talks about this. is deeply in the easies is if he has a deep conviction you need to get support to be a peaceful country. as you know those that. he didn't put in charge of and spoke like. will remain to go if europeans are united more than ever if europeans are happier more than ever we have a challenge possibility given that it was that became an order book and it wanted us stock from the king was a lot of democracy this is what what has happened was deep if gone if your peers will be united more than ever ethiopia winning because it gives of democracy principles of democracy more than ever and if your peers will be able to help will

be able to hold the most peaceful the most democrat minister election. as an issue ministers article about how we have to leave it there thank you for joining us on conflicts. if you think you've. observed.

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