it's a virus spread. why don't we have it and then we'll. just 3 of the topics covered and i weekly radio show it's called spectrum if you would like any information on the crown of virus or any other science topic you should really check out our podcast you can get it where ever you get your podcast you can also find us at teams of. science. i think that are trying to fight so it's one country one system now isn't it and it was a cover up that's not going to run the whole world out goes right through my system doesn't it china is roiling the west and europe along with the u.s. in many countries is pushing back hard at issue a growing list of human rights concerns including hong kong's new security law my

guest this week from beijing is one who year out of government advisor who heads the think tank the center for china and globalization why is his country taking so many fights these days and where are they on leading. up to wang who you know welcome to conflict zone thank you europe's getting fed up with beijing's threatening behavior and telling politicians here where they can go and who they can talk to telling the nobel prize committee who it can award and who it can't what made your government think it could push europe around like this what 1st time for me to hear that but i don't think that that was the government position or there could be a misunderstanding or. you know there was a maybe there's a lack communication of what i. i. heard from you i don't hear anything from that.

here in china i don't think so well perhaps you don't hear about it in china but just days ago the german in foreign minister hike a mass told beijing bluntly to stop threatening europe after a senior czech politician has gone to taiwan and addressed its parliament your government had warned he'd pay a heavy price for his visit there that's bullying isn't it no i don't think that it was really probably understood in a rug i think that you know one china policy has been. hold and has been really maintained for the last. 4050 years and also it's a basis of china establish diplomatic ties with all the countries that have is it diplomatic relation with china so so i think country publish should. really safeguard is one china policy and not having those official high level visit

so i think it's a i can stand china is not happy and you know the may be the speaker may be reflect that. and satisfaction so so i hope that. this is not it will be interpreted. as a china threat or anything so so that is poverty a different operation is what dr wang you may not like western politicians visiting taiwan or chinese nationals being awarded nobel prizes but that's your problem isn't it i mean these repeated attempts to impose your own prejudices and insecurities onto the international community and clearly doing you any good a tour are you it's counterproductive while i think that probably a country has set up diplomatic ties with china i'm sure they go through the they've gone through the diplomatic establish in relation talks and. they have

actually already. a bit by a certain principles on the guidance so if they recognize one china policy and then that one china policy does not. you know also reflect the official contact between the other country and taiwan and that should really be respected i think so if certain countries doing that china certainly has a right to. express their opinions as well i think that china just expressed its satisfaction and its opinion i think that should not be interpreted any more than that well if you intended a strong reaction if you intended a strong reaction from the european union you got it because its foreign policy chief you have burrell called china your government expansionist or thora tarion and the new empire that undermines international law did you really want to pick

a fight with your largest export market one thing that china is the picking a fight always with china largest market no i mean it's probably both market for both those regions as well and as i said you know there are certain. guidelines and principles $11.00 country is that is a diplomatic ties and the recognize one china policy and national. wire lated or bridged and if that is happen china certainly have a right to protest and the people. in the dissatisfaction and those so his comment i think that's that's fair fair you know that's not expansionist perhaps you're just too sensitive about free speech and free contacts because you don't exactly have a lot of it in china yourself do you you know as well non-government think we do.

and style out of. probably government policy so we speak from non-government private think time point of view but you are a government advisor who you are listed on your own facebook page as a government advisor you advise the government that we have would do otherwise i think that does does of vices too of course but the we are not the government where the government officials we advise and think time does otherwise people of course but when our government so so i'm not a common spokes person so so so if i knew if i think time understanding i could explain but some i don't know i so i i cannot satisfy you of course so you are you telling me you are surprised that the kind of language that china uses these days when it's dealing with the west and dealing with other countries i mean we have big big samples like your embassy in venezuela told those who talked about the china virus they told them to put on a face mask and shut up is that the kind of diplomatic language you think is

a good idea for china to use these days well the situation you've been describing some of them haven't i haven't heard before but. i think that maybe there is a contest or there or there is china is also under a lot of attacks and. so i think we should really have a dialogue we should have come to the occasion of visiting i so the only thing that is pandemic has stopped. people to people exchanges and stop the many visit and also many exchanges. between china and our cyber war so that's very unfortunate and i hope that. you know we should overcome that one and that because under control i think the government is doing its best and also we see that of issues that he's visiting some countries to conduct exchanges a dialogue which is a great i mean we did that your pharma. came to europe and he warned again last

month about the consequences of giving awards to hong kong's pro-democracy movement if you're complaining about coercive diplomacy from washington on your then you try practicing the same coercive diplomacy on europe that's hypocrisy isn't it i think there could be some misunderstanding i think on the issue of hong kong certainly i think the. young people have some legitimate concern of the widening. gap between rich and poor and things like that so i think the chinese government has realized that it is so the they launched this great baby project so there are many policies you shoot so the young people can come to you know a great burying ground an area to have a work to have a study to settle down there so the sort of that many years has been has been noted in the dressing that but on the other hand i don't think we need

a chaotic hong kong where airports is blocked and. you know bystander were put on the gasolines and that's just council was installed and smashed. shop and a lot of the eyes of the whole expect what do you expect when china has been whittling away at the territory's freedoms for some time now we've seen a crackdown on the people who led protests in 2014 we saw booksellers kidnapped and turning up strangely on the mainland because you didn't like the books that they were selling and now this new security law which is being condemned by many countries around the world as well as un human rights expert fact is this new law violates both the letter and the spirit of the basic law in hong kong and it was brought to you without any consultation so beijing now rules what i think the hong kong that is why that is why people are. that in hong kong. while i understand the

situation but i think the hong kong also need stability and also order and the law of course and the central government of course according to the basic law they have the right for defense the policy and security of all the countries has a security law and china is no exception so i think that you can see now the hong home the stock market is back and that they are now prepared for the largest i.p.o. in a war the investment of back to hong kong and hong kong is it's got in business is back to normal gradually so i think that people will understand in the long run it's going to be really good for hong kong if we have these. peace and the prosperity and the security return back to china or to hong kong of course but of course. there's always people more objectives once more accomplished more but it takes time you know it will gradually be one british rule

hong kong 400 years the never give them any democracy so you can expect that. you know very versed so with china of course but i think you know there are times when lang dumped or when you haven't you haven't given hong kong stability with this new security law you've simply imposed a dictatorship and a police state the un human rights experts who just written to your government aren't buying the stability argument what worries them in their words is the curtailment of freedoms of expression peaceful assembly and the société ssion and the interference with the ability of civil society organizations to perform their more full function and we've already seen that happening haven't we you talk about stability being coming back to hong kong and healthy markets since the new law came in dozens of keith pro-democracy figures have been detained including 2 lawmakers.

that's not support that's not stability that's a police state that you've imposed what you're sort of the has your interpretations but i think that basically you know you have and what happened in the u.s. you know you can present trouble than our law or any violence or any. relations or disorder so so the of course john is not perfect. you know there's no. perfect policy but you know probably china was forced to because you know china has to maintain the stability and the law and order there and so that all the multinationals that companies can come back is not running away stock market it can't come be rebuilt and confidence can return the largest i.p.o. in the world can happen so so there's nothing is perfect of course but this is not as it is not a way that stuff it is a long way from perfect dr wang isn't it i mean we've seen police already the

number but even the u.s. we've seen pete police raiding we're not talking about the u.s. we're talking about hong kong here and beijing's actually part of and we've seen that on the mental freedoms turned into crimes by this new security law which you've introduced and the rest of the world did you think they wouldn't notice we had a joint statement last month from the governments of australia canada new zealand u.k. us saying the law was eroding hong kong's people hong kong's fundamental rights and liberties and you your answer to that is well nothing's perfect but the markets are doing well what i'm saying is that hong kong as. a part of china as one country to assist you know they need to also it's one country one system now isn't it and well let me let me finish you keep interrupting me what i'm saying is that. on the stability and of course the. law as well because hong

kong cannot be for the last 6789 months i mean there in the last year hong kong is basically dysfunctional and paralyzed and been airport abroad. people were put on the all you to burn you know on bystanders and a lot of trouble stop no country in the world with allow that and there's no people would have loved her me that they don't feel secure in hong kong anymore to do something a little down to doing something did you think them to warn the people of hong kong would simply sit by and watch their freedoms erode and being eroded by beijing and not do anything about it. did you really think that then while you miscalculated bad all i think that. you know that you have suddenly people you hang on. you know have a different opinions of course that is that is obvious by the but also you have to

really think that the one is new national security law. there's almost $3000000.00 you know voted. in favor of this law so so that is that is also a fact that we should not exact but the but let let the time speak for itself let the market speak for ourselves let's let the people's final acceptance for it's the 1st of i think would we shouldn you know there's only several 2 or 3 months from this law but let's take a longer view as you say we can see the long in fact what we see on the longer view we've already seen what the longer view is going to look like because i pointed out you've dozens of pro-democracy figures have been detained not only that but police have raided the offices of apple daily one of the few news outlets that beijing doesn't control the papers found jimmy lai was arrested together with 8 of the men

he was later released on bail but the damage is already being done freedoms are being torn up the basic law is being torn up and and you're having your new security law superimposed on top of it so we can see which way it is going and people don't like that and if you think the rest of the world is going to sit by and just praise the markets you seem to have miscalculated don't you because that's not the attitude of the rest of the world what i think that is that i'm coming to china's ramsi very well that there was there was the there is no perfect solutions definitely i think that. parity is the men tend to law and order and also the security i think after all hong kong. you know where we're having no huge casualties or life being lost in hong kong even the whole this whole your demonstration the violence going on so i think the governor was required to quiet. reserved on that and what we see of the the u.s.

army where they have acquired a number of casualties already so so i think we have to really take into consideration that this is one country 2 system is the new new system nobody does it before nobody has done it before it's always have a lot of. you know trial and you know touching the stone crossing the river. so so we have to you know i mean improving this process but while the famous running process divided by iranian backed order yeah you proving the process by arresting pro-democracy figures trust in china as i mentioned a little while ago is plummeting despite what's seen as your growing influence a survey by the bertelsmann foundation showed that in the 4 months up to may this year negative views of china had increased in several countries by double digits a clear majority now in the us from its and germany now have adverse views about china's rise the highest figure being 61 percent in germany did you want your

country to be so unpopular around the world i think that's a problem without the perception of china. china is a negative and it's got in. in a more negative now but i think. on the part of both china and also our war i think we really need to increase the communication for example china is doing for quite well all those k.p. i in in terms of if you measure the countries china become the 2nd largest economy in 4 decades china embrace the globalization china is the largest trade in asia was 130 countries you have a country and china and china is not one cent of china g.d.p. gross and china china is also leave to 800000000 people out of property accounting 70 percent of. war poverty level so they have a contribution in almost a total war but i think you know we need to really explain the well and then probably we need to have a better. look at china because i think the world you know the western country

neither be more tolerant of china if the chinese do well you know like they obviously have a doesn't matter it's all white cat black and as long as it catches mice with a contribution to the 31 3rd of the world g.d.p. grows you know never become a. conqueror any. continent or countries or sending troops to other countries or fighting you know that's like someone got to when you leave that you call for more tolerable example for example for my last dollar that's the french that the yeah but the but also you know in a 10 tolerance a 1000000 weakest locked up in riyadh so-called reeducation camps tolerance of persecution of christians is that the kind of tolerance that you're looking for from the outside no i don't i don't i don't i don't i don't think you interpret that right i think the tolerant china that they're from development model have a different path have a different system because we you know it was saying china didn't come virgin the china can't be you know we need a mall

a diversity of this world we can't just open someone fresh and we're not talking about going verging on diverging the world is complaining about your yeah human rights record continually and the locking up the incarceration of a 1000000 weak is engine jang province this is what they're complaining about i think because of this you have a you know as far as. as far as i can see there's there's no hard evidence or proof. but they'd have to say that i mean there is cause china will start working on it's been published around the world in chinese instructions so the people who stuff these incarceration counts it's been printed no matter when or if my publisher nor i will either. read the words all i mean there's a there's a there's a white paper published by the chinese government they were saying all the people in there is. in our school has been graduated already and you know and

also to prevent you know you know 510 years ago that was plagued by the terrorist attacks. hundreds of 1000 lives were lost that there were and perhaps you'd agree that one of the main causes of the rest of the world losing trust in china was your handling of the corona virus outbreak in the beginning of the year and the shocking way in which local officials in will have tried to silence the one doctor who sounded the alarm i wonder what it says about your society that when officials of the communist party are faced with bad news their 1st response is to try to cover it up that tactic lost both you and the rest of the world valuable time in dealing with this pandemic in the. you're a suit of all a very negative a question but but what i tried as is that i think that you know the coven died when they 1st discovered in one han. chinese authority has

a report that to the average joe has a report out of the united states and all the other countries of course the doctors that who was of find these these are the very beginning but but you know this is a disease never never happened in the history of mankind nobody knows about that and that should not stand a false alarm as well you should really be proven and tested and also a very 5 by x. birth that is really badly lethal disease and if that is actually was that they reach that point where they come to the conclusion they are in the middle of a shutdown 10000000 people city they immediately shut down 6 the bill in the province they actually you know at the chinle now it's doing the best there's no single case of current locally on a daily basis for the last a month or 2 or so so in general when it's done right well i'm not trying hard i know you're weak know the fact that dr lee when youn lee went down when he 1st talked about the emergence of

a viral outbreak he was coded into the police to the public security bureau accused of making false statement the severely disturbed the social order and he was and it a letter which read we solemnly warn you if you keep being stubborn with such impertinence and continue this illegal activity you'll be brought to justice do you understand he had to write i do underneath no no i'm saying that you're right you're right you know this is what happened this is what happened it was a cover up that not only right are right it's also set up goes right through my system doesn't it. you have your interpretations but what i see is actually you know the officer who who talked to. the un the un has been sacked has been punished and there's a number of officials the in the party secretary has been residing at the hospital ship has resigned there's a there's a number of cases has been handled the by the local government i think there could

be local officials somewhere that didn't want to tell the bad news maybe about we had some initial pressures but but later on i think one the got to realize this is a deadly disease there were snow time to do you should the warriors the lock down the cities which is never done so you know history of my kind of a 60000000000 province locked down for its 2 story months so they pay their prize they have also experiment all the ways of how to account come pain and come back this disease quarantine the social distance you know and massive testing and you know they experiment all those methodology and now is widely practiced internationally so so i think china should give some credit for 45 years but given that we haven't given me that they haven't they haven't been going on for a given the initial cover ups and we have a u.s. intelligence report in june saying that even a senior politicians in beijing were scrambling to get accurate data from officials local officials they themselves still played

a role in obscuring the outbreak by keeping information back from the world health organization so i ask you will we ever discover the real truth about what beijing knew and when it knew it well we have a discover that while we we have a thinker level we don't know all the details but what we've seen you know from from all angles from the same time point a lot of these you know you know the case is a war on is only a very initial i mean probably a week or 2 they were little be done you know find out the real cause of the disease and then we really had to make a right announcement to the world at the beginning nobody was know this is that lay this is going to be the pandemic this is going to those swept the world nobody knows about that so so they have to be careful in the. cleanin it's such a at that with these it's also i think the beginning there's a little little phase i think that i did a little. contemplating understand that but once they have all the doctors have. to prove the business of that business there was no time to lock down the whole city

and shot all the flies or i did all the things the right things or all so it was a lot i mean. everything's perfect dr wang we're out we're running out of the time thank you very much for being on conflict so thank you. to a a. a a a a a to. thank you come . to. cut. cut. cut. cut cut. cut cut. cut.

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