clicked on the priest and the cultures changed as we take a listen to our podcast on the green and. why subscribe to d.w. books to meet your favorite writer right chapter but i write is to share what i find beautiful. on you tube. you have 10000000 e.u. citizens living on the authoritarian rule we can not tolerate for a seat in europe yet we have not crawlers only the revolt. the insurrection in washington has focused attention on the apparent fragility of democracy in the us but how strong is democracy in europe my guest this week from germany is going to critique pound the m.p. from angela merkel's c.d.u. party and chair of the e.u. affairs committee in the federal parliament why the big gap between the e's rhetoric about rights and the rule of law and the dismal reality in parts of the

union. going to create a problem welcome to comfort zone. money when borland took over the rotating e.u. presidency it's set itself the tasco of protecting fundamental values and rights in the european union and i want to look 1st at whether it met that objective in any way at all according to human rights groups you have now almost 10000000 citizens living under the authoritarian rule in hungary aren't you ashamed of the. well i am not totally satisfied with the results and to be very honest any way we are able to achieve the 1st step to come now that financial aid from the budget

of the euro e.u. learned to the respect of rule of law just wasn't quite my gma wasn't my question about hungary you have 10000000 e.u. citizens living under our thora tarion rule and you have the commission's vice president e.u. commission vice president vera's arriva went so far as to call hungary a sick democracy how many sick democracies can you tolerate in the european union these days. we can now tolerate a sick democracy is in european union but you can break but you do not know one second please let me choose my sentence because we have not problems only in hungary but also in poland was unmarked when a journalist asked kill and we had to surf the or it is not really. the case so i think it is necessary to make more pressure on the states and with the budget we have really

a jewel now in our am and so i am satisfied then we did the 1st step but i think also it is not and will be not enough in the future but it should be normal to respect the rule of wrongs their european union yes well they've gone a long way from what you regard as normal that this tool that you're talking about is a mechanism which germany proposed that looks as though the e.u. would make payments to member countries conditional on their respect for the rule of law the problem for several countries was that it was just too soft in fact it was all hype wasn't it when you looked at the fine print of the proposal it turned out this mechanism could only be used if the rule of law if the violations of rule of law affected or seriously rest affecting the sound financial management of the e.u. so in other words it was all about money and that wasn't enough for a lot of countries was it i think money is a very good tool to me pressure on states because they beat the mind and soul

finally it was necessary to find a compromise because i think you followed the bait how difficult it was to get a solution concerning the mutual financial strain or an awful they recovery from which allows now to rebuild a colony of the concerts save you'll encounter corona riots but anyway now we have not only mechanist. the combination with the financial aid. also article says. finally we have the. european union up to date not to decide if there are allegations or a way i think this will work for half an hour this combination. with mr greenspan your article 7 process is against poland hungary have gone absolutely nowhere and the looks as though none of this is going to result in any sustained action

whatsoever and this latest mechanism also ended in failure because both hungary and poland announced that if you went ahead with it and they would veto the latest stimulus package straight unashamed blackmail wasn't it and you gave in to it. no there i don't share his opinion because. of always respect the decisions of the i car and this is of on me personally the red line the red line means to respect the decisions of the hike or so there's the science of hunger and in the past i know that it will also get there we have more problems all over and saw my dear i ask the mob to respect decisions and the now we have once again this is millionaires who respect rule of law otherwise we can lock them up and this is the one consequence when i was fully. feeling.

concerns it's i have to take issue with you when you say that you know this mechanism survived intact what what you did was in fact climb down but when brokered a deal that will have the effect of delaying for months even years the use of this procedure and then only after the european court of justice has ruled on it and the hungry in poland have had the chance to challenge it who knows how long that's going to take so this has been kicked indefinitely into the future in other words nothing will happen will it. i don't think so because the decision which will be taken by the european car will also have an impact from the very beginning and not only for the future the means when the decision will be taken by the european car so this was a very high level in atlanta and so once again i.

am really glad that we have not had this combination between the budget and the respect of rule or which force is not the case in the us let's see how well it works it set a precedent that you will climb down you will climb down every time there is a challenge and every time states say we're going to blackmail you and hold up your stimulus package or your budget i think it was not the right view one step in the right direction but it's only if it's a trip nominally i think you should be very clear state withdrawing its european union should respect rule of law so that's also the reason why the article sound. is only regulated with a few sentences and the treaty takes also rests it rests it is on the basic watanabe scott ticket $51.00 article $58.00 article $58.00 that only

a few census why because we thought it will never happen or one state will leave european union that nation wide these rules are very cool or if you want the treaty so it was our duty it was our. challenge not to better not mechanisms for our sins which are not really understanding and when has it in all is our understanding i get a problem in arguing to the. candidate states so if the states who want to join. do you worry you because i tell them well if you want to join your union you have to respect my privacy you have to respect the rule of law and the cetera et cetera so but also they have to respect the rule of law one e.u. official said after this latest you call it compromise i call it a climbdown said the rule of law a mechanism is like the stability pact for the east it will never be enforced and

will only create political resentment on all sides that's the view of some people within the e.u. and what this mechanism does really. mean and they have the right of the t.v. for this opinion but i suppose they don't know what happened there isn't that the opinion is based on not up and they just look at what happened and really astonished that they judge other mechanisms which not swerve we have now to our reverse but i think that it's really funny. to calm down a mechanism which will all null and let us not only nobody can really tell that it will not work and i don't think so it will work less in the future and if it will not be the case then i'm really sure there will be the pressure to alert to achieve it in the right sense so satisfied once again that we got this mechanism. and not let ourselves how it worse well yes

i would say than that you are easily satisfied with the greek bond because human rights organizations for instance human rights watch are far from satisfied they said last month the last weeks have shown that leaders who violate human rights have no shame in bullying and blackmailing the whole european union to shield themselves from any consequences for their actions you set a dangerous precedent here where you allow lucy to take plus. i don't want to interrupt you but we have to be very carefully we are speaking up about a man instead of the european. ian and everybody knows how important it is to the respect rule of law and we are not talking about the state from another car in the world with the doubtful regime will at our school governance and so we know what you are talking you are talking about european union states that disrespect the rule of the land it we have to make

a difference we are not speaking of the state of central america. we are a human rights are violated every day mr imus the preclear let me let me just make a point here let me just let me just like i'm going to let our european union that's not all. the costs are and then we have also to really get the reaction last and i think it was part of a rare excess all presidency because he was not old american is multiple offers in walsall come to result in the local stations finances of your finances to create about the let me let me let me let me just raise an issue here you say you're not talking about african states you're talking about members of the european union you're talking about in the case of hungary at least a leader who effectively gave himself absolute power under cover of the pandemic who's been politicizing the courts who's decimated independent media who's been

chipping away at academic freedom these are not things they signed up to do when they joined the european union so unless there are mechanisms and so far no mechanisms have persuaded the leadership in hungary to change their proper course of policy things are going to change and to go back to my original question at the top of the interview what have you managed to do to ensure rights for those 10000000 hunger ariens who live according to the human rights organizations under or thora tarion rule in the middle of the european union you seem to find that acceptable they don't. well once again i think it is worthwhile to make a difference also in hungary we have heard government 1st which is elected by a known commodity. are. always criticized when we have not asked fair conditions for the media. point it is not

a case that no one can tell is free again so that's my kind were it say it's necessary to make a difference and once again we want to have a mission school in the us i want that. easily can present itself on an economy basic which is this sure and which will not be my lady by the state so i think it is not only black and only white it's all we have differences and that's i think the point when we are adult here with european commission is still painted at the previous hour like then it's the duty of the commission to ask for a decision of the european car and this is one of the done and hunger

a respected the decision of your nose to prepare you talk about the european commission deciding whether a state is in line with its rule of law values or not look a bug area 14 years in the european union it's still getting away with some of the worst practices of a communist era even though it's been under special monitoring by the e.u. how does that happen. well at 1st i don't share a dog killian that has crossed the communist. time i talk i don't share really not becoming this time people suffered under the drug. companies rescue mother come hysteria it was. violating human rights every day no to democracy no law we have nothing well i criticize in the case of parking are enough. of the system of law concerning.

to all. cases of corruption we have cases which take 10 or 12 years in court true. in a circle and it's a full long time so there it has cost something to do with a rule off lot less of $1.00 point which i criticise very very not mr minister chris brown you have massive government corruption this according to independent n.g.o.s you have mafia capture you have democratic backsliding a politically manipulated and almost dysfunctional just system says them is that good so far that what how is that in any way in line to any degree with the pledges the bug area made 14 years ago and yet in 2019 a spokesman for the commission reported that bug area had made sufficient progress

to meet its commitments at accession to the e.u. that cannot be right so why this blind guy being turned towards bug area i visited by the area off and. yesterday integrated european union and also the procedures of european union that makes a difference mr. found the ngos and various garda 5 government seem to have seen more problems in bulgaria than the e.u. commission the 2900 human rights report from the us state department said officials in all branches of government in bulgaria reportedly engaged in corrupt practices with impunity bribery conflict of interest elaborate embezzlement schemes on top of that you have from the un committee against torture of finding that mental institutions are forcibly administering intrusive and irreversible psychiatric treatment on their patients and that torture has become commonplace in that country

how do those values fit in with the modern e.u. idea of what countries should be doing what they said they'd live up to and haven't . i know this totally right that it is not acceptable that we have circumstances like that mentioned once but. let me say it's perhaps not a complete picture of the area because sure things have to be developed in the right direction of the other. had cheated us. and we are done. today cannot be compared with at times 203040 years ago so at all these countries have to be developed and they have they are developed and this occurs we have the european commission which is serving the developments and sure that there is

also a lot of pressure from the european commission to the states and also from the other member states and independent foundations which we have also a gallery of like on a other now. it's also n.g.o.s they show another picture also they created that they criticize a lot for instance especially in the fight against corruption they're out of the gate and has the strong arm of the government and of the government is not able to . make for an especially progresses then it has to show consequences other european union yeah but then there are any consequences bug area has had 14 years in the european union and it is still torturing people on a regular basis so clearly whatever measures the e.u. is applying aren't having the desired effect are they. i think that's not the right

. that that's not the right picture because people can live free in a bug area and. we have to proceed and of this is the case but what i'm asking for is more engaged fight against corruption and this is cannot be tolerated because corruption is violating the poorest of the poorest people whine because they cannot join to start full competition to pay for. things which we not at its start it's not only it's not only to do with it or it isn't a state it starts also daily like in hospitals it's cool when you know when their students want to get. a result we have this. daily let me say on the other hand i am

a corruption. till it will be we will have a result in. the state. which cannot be tolerated we have to do more in the fight against corruption and this includes that proceeding in front of the coffee house to show results after a few years hence that's my point this has to be shot at and more when you are remarkably complacent about it the commission is remarkably complacent about things like torture mafia capture and the manip political manipulation of the justice system let me turn to another subject for the time we have left babs it's worth the e.u. taking a good hard look at what's going on in america at the moment this is the unfolding story of a populist president staging an insurrection to try and prevent him being ousted in

a free and fair election how long before some of that starts to happen in the new and is the concern that this in washington should be a wake up call that it should listen to. well the 1st a remark that we are really lou forward not to the presidency of mr biden because that's not what i asked but it's not what i asked that necessarily to be mentioned because. the dialogue between the united states and europe still stands and saw also the respect of rule of law but receives a life in america like in europe and there's all share one point that in a former times of war self understanding that. common sense that democracies are in the south understanding and strong and we have to have such

a day that iraq receives are coming more and more under pressure worldwide and. as we have to observe it. only balance so we have to fight both for our own well us we have to fight for democracy we have to fight for rule of law but once again for our times it was british self understanding today it is not because this will be decisive of our national our will it generate and he is finally mr creeper let's come back to germany there's a general election in september angle merkel is retiring and in a few days the c.d.u. your party will elect a new leader while none of the candidates to date seem to be generating much enthusiasm you're most popular politician health minister young span isn't even on the ballot don't you want to win elections. and they're optimistic

because we have 3 candidates which are. very much of aged and. don't cherish europe europe for electoral room are. many and sure it will not be easy when i'm going to now that we're leaving because she was our chance last horrible very long period of time since 2005 and a subtle that's also quite novel that everybody will him as own style but it's an open race and for me it's very difficult to predict who will write what will it will it one of the candidates friedrich mad says said that immigrants are to blame for rising welfare costs and unemployment in germany do you really want your party to go down that road putting immigrants in the firing line just to woo a few far right voters from the f.t.

hasn't there been enough resentment and hatred directed at immigrants and other gun owners that's not right where you want to mention it melts it should be the right sentences and. this is. not saying what he said it's now concerning the refugees what's the up with the well if you're in bosnia and herzegovina up there it should not be the case that germany will go once again in front of the because now it's all in the responsibility of other european states to take care of them otherwise we'll create a whole effect so we will search in 20152008 is 16 this should not be a repeat it once so i think. we have also areas. like in syria for example

a lot of our which is our state and so it cannot be the solution that. drafted can come. to the 'd european union are in the states we need a solution we need a solution in the european well because. i think once again all these states signed the declaration. that expiration or project refugees but in a way germany did not in the past and this can be done down and one time not. going to creep i'm unfortunately we've run out of time we have to leave it there thanks very much for being on conflict zone. your.

morning. is devastating. electricity. solar storms. 15 minutes on to.

the fight against the corona virus pandemic. the rate of infection been developing . measures are being taken. what does the latest research say. information into context. the coronavirus of data the coded structural monday to friday w. . in the us of climate change. the trick is most of. what's in store for. the years to come for the future when the book. comes from the mega city to go to the inside. counter. cutting through the noise. floor i come from people are known for being

tough but fair new york and la and people tell it like it it they call it the concrete jungle a melting pot of the city that never sleeps it's this energy that makes it feel like old but amid the hustle it's important to listen and pay attention because it's not just the loudest voices who needs to be heard we all have a story this is how i see it is my job as a journalist to go beyond the obvious now i'm basing your i'm a mum and my work takes me around the world but my it seems for me the same to tell the important stories behind the headlines what is the heart of the story why does it matter who live in past the odyssey focus if you want us to cut through the noise to get to the surface. and i broke.

this is the news live from berlin the u.s. congress formally charges u.s. president donald trump with inciting his supporters to attack the capitol building last week calling it and. against the country that means trump will go down in history as the us president to be impeached twice also coming up in uganda begin voting in palm intreat and the presidential election campaign marked by widespread veteran president yoweri museveni is facing a challenge from pop stuff.