can you hear me now yes yes we can hear you and how long stance gentlemen sound that we're going to man and you never. surprise yourself with what is possible who is magical really what moves. somebody who talks to people who follow along the way my runs and critics alike how is the world's most powerful woman shaking her head like you joined us from athens last hour. is it all just a lot of hot air investors have been snapping up hydrogen related stocks as if the gas were in short supply it's the most abundant element in the universe like on our

sun but on earth it's mostly extracted from fossil fuels and meeting carbon dioxide in the process what's got traders excited a company's promises of clean hydrogen electrolysis splits water into hydrogen and oxygen doing it cheaply could be the holy grail of green energy so it could hydrogen become the fuel of the future that's what we're looking at today are made by ben fizzle and share prices of companies in the industry have soared more than 500 percent in the past year there are several reasons 0 emissions vehicles are all the rage many countries are going carbon free in the next few decades u.s. president joe biden has thrown his weight behind the sector and the european union plans to scale up or new opel hydrogen projects in polluting industries like chemicals and steel but a lot of the focus so far has been on cars the question is will hydrogen powered cars overtake their electric cousins. what's the

deal when we all supposed to be driving plug in electric cars there are not for us part of car sharing plans in many cities. but now hydrogen vehicles are the thing. over the past 2 decades several hydrogen models have been unveiled so most of them use hydrogen and combustion engines but what about hydrogen cars with electric motors like this one. we asked the head of the german hydrogen and fuel cell association about the advantage over. plug in electric cars have a distance problem and ranges are growing become with up to 4 hours recharging time who wants to set off on vacation and have to take a 4 hour break every 250 kilometers it's not an option. how does this h 2 powered car work it involves a kind of battery known as a fuel cell. from the air and hydrogen from the tank come together and react in the

fuel cell producing electricity that powers the car's electric engine. what comes out of the tail pipe. unlike combustion engines no exhaust fumes or carbon dioxide . but only a few car makers manufacture them such as hi i'm guy on toyota and the technology remains expensive a car like this toyota mirai costs 79000 euros at the moment in the future a new model is expected to sell for about $64000.00 shares why is it still so costly. and why the vehicles are sufficiently well developed to be sold at ordinary car prices if they were mass produced. but at the moment there's a lack of demand perhaps also there's not enough state intervention to ensure that enough vehicles are accepted. that's all well

and good but so far the hydrogen itself is mainly produced using fossil fuels not exactly climate friendly. the phone hoover institute for systems and innovation research has calculated how much h.t. would be needed in germany to fully exploit hydrogen technologies and it's unlocked . in 2018 a total of 560 terawatt hours of electric power was used in germany even if electricity consumption stayed the same in 2050 as much as double that would be required to produce all the hydrogen needed for fuel cells and for making synthetic fuel. to generate all those extra power germany would have to expand wind and solar on a massive scale to produce both enough hydrogen for transportation and enough electricity for other uses. that would mean. that. if we want to or are allowed to use hydrogen for mobility then this hydrogen can

only be generated with renewable energy. we would have to build up trade relations with countries with huge amounts of space sunshine and wind available and that are willing to become our energy providers of the future. sustainable energy plants would have to be built there so hydrogen could be produced and transported via pipelines or ships to germany to transport you. ok so the message is renewable energy would have to be expanded massively to produce enough hydrogen but not only is there still a lack of hydrogen but also if the necessary infrastructure such as filling stations in the capital berlin there are currently just 5 hydrogen filling stations and a total of $92.00 out germany. filling up takes just 3 minutes and then the car can travel 500 kilometers. kilometers of driving 100. costs just as much as with

a diesel engine so it's not more expensive for the customer the industry has agreed to build a significant number of filling stations up to $400.00 of them without looking at exactly how many cars there actually are. and the support from policymakers not just to expand renewable energies but also hydrogen production in december the german government launched a new pilot project in chile siemens plans to produce synthetic fuels using hydrogen experts think that h.t. technology in the form of fuel cells is also being taken more seriously. you have people to 10 years ago it was more like an engineers dream it's such a cool and clever technology and we now have clear binding climate targets and the green deal gave us more ambitious targets we realized these are not attainable with conventional combustion engine that we simply need different technologies. on the other hand the global market for hydrogen on synthetic fuels may traumatic growing

scientists found with the institute calculate that the market value each up to 190000000000 euros why 2030 and as much as 680000000000 euros by 2050. good prospects than the hydrogen technology. in 10 years many more of these vehicles looks to be cruising through the country. but it's still not a given hydrogen as a fuel for cars sounds great that gas could one day play a major role in slowing global warming still it's not always the best technology that wins it's the one that clinches market share and rides the network effect some analysts are warning of a bubble a frenzy of hydrogen related stocks has companies trading at extreme prices based on expectations that their revenue will surge in the future despite worries about possible headwinds for the sector it was a similar burst of enthusiasm about 20 years ago that proved short lived and

another thing is abundant energy source has to get a lot greener 1st to make an impact on the planet if it really hits the streets that is or takes its place in other industries. hydrogen is considered an important energy source of the future it's supposed to make a key part of europe's transition to sustainable sources of power. the dutch court of rotterdam is investing in h 2 in a big way. it's planning to build a hydrogen network covering the entire ports aiming to become a hub for producing importing and transporting the gas to other european countries but is hydrogen truly green. hydrogen itself is actually colorless but it's called gray blue or indeed green depending on the manufacturing process used to produce it today most hydrogen is grain it's made from fossil fuels like natural gas and coal

and produces high levels of c o 2 emissions. blue hydrogen is also grey in the sense that it too is gained from fossil fuels but the climate damaging c o 2 is captured and stored in empty gas fields under the sea for example. so the carbon footprint is significantly lower. in the green many faction process hydrogen is derived from water this is the only form of 82 production that can be described as sustainable and a lot of obviously very all hydrogen is overseen because it's almost the molecule too but the different manufacturing processes determine how high the greenhouse gas emissions are and how clean the hydrogen is. green hydrogen is produced by splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen with the help of electricity.

but that electricity doesn't always come from 0 emission sources. so even green hydrogen is only sustainable if the power used to make it comes from renewable. such as wind also low power. only then is it produced without emitting any carbon dioxide. if it's to be green and sustainable the hydrogen has to be produced using renewables asked for it. but what if a country doesn't have enough renewable electricity to cover the need for green hydrogen production. germany for example has insufficient wind and solar power so by 2050 the country will have to import 45000000 tons of hydrogen the risk there is that transporting it of a long distances by ship or pipeline could cause further environmental damage. and what was 131 point of course a certification we need

a global certification system to really prove that this hydrogen has been produced from green electricity. going to right now we don't have that because there's no agreement on it yet. another hurdle for a quick transition to truly green hydrogen is the cost. bins it moment in. if you compare renewable green or even hydrogen with fossil fuels under the current regulatory framework then it's a very expensive option and another for the total value and. but as more electricity is produced from renewable sources green hydrogen should become less expensive. predict the cost will more than half by 2030 but so far the production of green hydrogen is not widespread in the european union. experts predict that the blue option where the c

o 2 emitted during production is stored remain a key source of hydrogen for years to come. well germany is keen on expanding its capacity for hydrogen production the aim is to produce the gas on an industrial scale with 0 emissions green hydrogen would be used not only for fuels but also for heating and generating electricity still produces like to cope and sides get are investing billions of euros to make production climate you troll with the help of hydrogen power even oil giants are getting in on the act b.p. developing a renewable hydrogen project at its refinery here in germany to replace a big chunk of its fossil based hydrogen consumption the road to greener energy leads to m. slammed the northern german district hopes to play a leading role in the country's transition to renewable energy.

tim huisman coordinates the development of hydrogen production infrastructure in the region. this wind back together with offshore wind turbines to generate the power that will be used to produce hydrogen in a carbon neutral process. behind using hydrogen is to achieve c o 2 neutrality and strength from fossil fuels using renewable energies replacing all that natural gas and petroleum by alternatives and that has to be. solar energy. is in good shape economically with modern industrial and commercial enterprises well funded with taxes the region can afford to invest heavily in the energy transition. oil multinational b.p. runs a huge refinery in m's land. refineries like this one are among the biggest industrial

consumers of hydrogen several tons per hour i needed to remove sulfur from the gasoline and diesel produced here. but what's being used is so-called grey hydrogen derived from natural gas you know process which emits large amounts of climate damaging c o 2 the plant is being converted so that in future it can produce carbon neutral green hydrogen. don't forget that there are large furnishes and plants like these large amounts of energy and here it's 120 megawatts 128 reactor tubes filled with catalysts it's highly energy intensive and produces lots of c o 2 the new planet just pure electrolysis huge needs much less energy with almost no c o 2. but it's very expensive without state subsidies it would be difficult to realise the plans. to be subsidized green hydrogen costs more than great hydrogen so

there's no economic incentive for it why would a market driven company use green hydrogen it just costs them money and their customers won't pay for it so subsidies are essential and both the german government and the e.u. agree that they will be in the 1000000000. making industrial facilities more eco friendly cost a lot of money at this power plant green hydrogen could soon replace natural gas. and german energy multinational plans to build one of the world's biggest hydrogen production plants on this field green hydrogen is opening up entirely new business opportunities. is that we already have large cavern storage facilities in our power. we can temporarily store the large amounts of hydrogen.

vailable industries and power plants that are switching to a. stored energy. co-ordinated tim who says it's important to implement green hydrogen quickly that way the existing natural gas pipeline system can be used for distribution allowing the hydrogen to be transported to every corner of the country. green hydrogen dispensable in many sectors which is why it should have been invested in years ago. but it's only know that the course has been set the 1st green hydrogen plan should be up and running next year well one good thing about this pandemic for the planet has been the fact that most of us have been at home denied any sort of travel no exotic holidays.

or an economic catastrophe because one in 10 jobs around the world. and officials reckon. probably again until 2023 and what they could do in the meantime is trying to clean up the business choosing to fly comes at a high price in terms of emissions. say we might soon change that with 0 emission hydrogen powered aircraft but is that realistic. remember when flying was fun. an adventure for free spirits and jet set feeling. but look at all the fossil fuel that has to be burned to get to fly this. flying is the fastest white into the climate crisis how do you think. that there's hope and innovative ideas the industry is trying to reduce its

carbon footprint. there are many many reasons to believe and hydrogen. will lower flight soon be eco friendly what's behind the green hydrogen hype. more than 20000 planes when operations around the world before the pandemic carrying over 4500000000 passengers in 2019. most of them were frequent flyers on domestic flights in the u.s. and china and they accounted for about a quarter of all of the asian emissions the problem with aviation is that they're a very tiny minority of where else takes a huge share of the mess while 80 percent has never seen any. direct c o 2 emissions from of asian accounted for at least 2 percent of global emissions and $21000.00 doesn't sound like much so unfortunately it's the most intelligence activity that human beings can buy and while you can get an electric

car or swap meet for veggies there isn't really a viable eco friendly alternative to long distance air travel yet. how did we get into this. let's go back to where it all began. the world to humans. you know a promise of a world that is increasingly connected to it was a jet set activity flying was so exclusive because it was very expensive share plane it was like oh mercy. in ordinary us domestic ground trip cost around $600.00 back in the 1970 s. a whopping $4000.00 in today's money. but then the market was deregulated low cost carriers emerged and growth became target number one believe it or not this year

alone 100000000 people hey should fly for the 1st time and if you fall from the privilege of a few into a service from any. good markets this is a population that is as a 1st to fly 1st probably one of the freedom it brings from you have ports to new markets disguised western limits for the aviation industry. until 2021 to coronavirus it grounded most of the world's aircraft but the industry is expected to bounce back soon. we think that we will see a return to recall of it. by the end of the war ok so people want to fly and will fly but does it have to involve blasting fossil fuel emissions into the air. perhaps not and the industry has been quite creative in proposing alternatives i think i call. 1214

different technologies that have proposed. to stefan go to professor for tourism and transport in sweden focused on of the asian since the beginning of his economic career. i think we need. everything. replacing our craft that was in the ninety's. a completely new airframe models like this one. blended wing technology to save kerosene so loud. plant based fuels the so-called biofuels are all the rage. the dutch ellen company kalen for example prided itself on using them the great thing about biofuels is that we can make them using algae. sugarcane seeds we don't even from cooking oil fuel is great for c o 2 but there isn't enough of it around that's why k l m is getting everyone together to produce biofuel on a large scale ok and it's

a leading ally in by field but actual share of biofuels was only 0.18 percent of their total fuel consumption and $29000.00 in the end they were sued for misleading marketing. recently become about electric aircraft and we were convinced that the electrical revolution would happen in aerospace as well so we launched a fully electric powered aircraft which we called the that was a project that was canceled the year before it was scheduled to make its 1st flight well. as a scientist measure progress and that is emissions going down and we haven't seen that. now hydrogen is supposed to save the planet. that were believed in what hydrogen represents is most pivotal why they say hydrogen has at least 3 striking features number one it's a versatile energy carrier and can power aircraft with high energy demand where

better its would be no alternative. hydrogen can be made using renewable energy meaning the production can be environmentally friendly did so called green hydrogen that's what they want. what we're talking about here is really powering aviation with for noble energy. it does not pollute hydrogen when burned in its new c o 2 and almost no air pollution which of course is the biggest plus ok sounds great but. i'm 2035 is this ambitious that said to ourselves to come in service with a green green something 5 commercial aircraft. 2035 why so late the core challenges are to really build an aircraft that can safely run on hydrogen biggest storage and a whole new design will be needed before hydrogen planes can take off. and the

infrastructure fighter jet needs to be developed from planes to refuel into production building up a coherent hydrogen system takes time and costs a lot of money. and finally there's simply not enough green hydrogen available yet the share of the new builds worldwide is still too low to produce enough eco friendly hydrogen for the industry right now the hydrogen we use is almost entirely made from natural gas and coal. and of course it's all just a promise and promises have been broken by the time it does work it may be too late the problem with hydrogen is that it doesn't yet know it's simply not there yet despite industry assurances we are being out so if we have to reduce the sea with through my work force or the c.e.o. of the future scientists like stephan gosling remain skeptical. well after

25 years i think i'm entitled to an opinion so i'll just tell you what i don't i don't think the sectors any interest in tech and. everything we've seen in terms of discussion on proposals has always just been a proposition for the future as long as the aviation industry is business model is based on fossil fuels and growth initiatives will continue to rise that's why activists and scientists are calling for stricter regulation we need to govern on this tour to address this problem it is a leave it to me alliance i'm very skeptical we will see a solution so back to our original question will our flights be eco friendly. put simply no they won't hydrogen. will need more time to reach its potential but we can help reduce emissions knowledge by making choices about how we travel and traveling less one of the possible because technology alone will not be able to save our planet. and if we can do that i am i was.

a clean fuel of the future or just a lot of hot air thanks for joining us for another episode of the w.'s in depth is the show may see you again say.

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frankfurt airport city managed by from. this is the job of live from berlin the big question from the european union where as all vaccine anger is growing over the delay of millions of preorder doses of the covert 1000 vaccine from drug maker astra zeneca what's behind the delay and how will it affect those most vulnerable to the corona virus also coming up in germany .