tv Gesprach Deutsche Welle February 14, 2021 1:30pm-2:00pm CET
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it. to this day crystal she holds has no idea which dances she was exposed to she has difficulty walking result of an earth to see if she's had since she was young. give the concord had under fire i was 15 when i 1st began getting else in it i did after the end of the war and after they'd finished loading the gas by. the latin bomb there would be times where i was almost paralyzed and initially a doctor thought it might be polio. as i felt in the mud for. the day agnostic hard to it's going to kimberley me saying this is then inverted always went away again. and then 20 years ago i was diagnosed with neuropathy but he harbored. no one can say what caused her neuropathy but chris who she holds has found out the toxins can be a trigger. when she showed us
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a photo album of pictures from her childhood she became sad the whole family died of cancer. she blames the chemical weapons and the politicians who ignored the existence of these wartime poisons for 75 years. she can just leave because i don't understand it i just can't understand what the politicians are thinking he might not flog on the habit i know i'm old but i've been through it all. but these days i get the feeling that they know about it but they don't want to know and they don't want to spend money on it the costs are horrendous and for them money is more important then people. get it's better to mention. the costs are not stickle germany's most toxic whole. a pond in lowest saxony could easily become the world's
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most costly want the cleanup comes with an estimated $15000000.00 euro price tag. in only 2020 work began on 3 exploratory shafts the 1st chemical shells turned up just to meet a below the surface. is part of the team recovering the deadly weapons in this job he's away anything can happen for use on the wonderful things you're because there are things where you can't gauge the risk is what uncovering munitions that leak and so forth so as to when it was the day my biggest concern is coming across an exposed chemical warfare agent down in the hole in the that would mean getting out carefully evaluating the situation and taking further measures like a mofo. stefan bishop has been confronted with such situations down in the shaft he risks his own life on the job to save others when he too will be carving the
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munitions are a problem especially when they're somewhere buried in the earth disintegrating and hazardous gases are leaking into the water will eventually that affects the whole population on the other heavy metals that get into the water like arsenic for example seep into the food chain and then into people that's why we have to do that this way and. 84 minutes is the maximum time stefan can stay in the shaft with his hazmat suit and musk. he goes down a mine. next to him and beneath him on hundreds of poison gas channels from 2 world wars. today you'll recover 400 kilograms of toxic deadly munitions from the whole. of the goodness to your food as i get most i have a mix of feelings it's strange because you know i can't really express what it feels like but it's certainly not good or even fine if you have to stay. sharp
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whether you're excavating things or moving them and of being. this closely watched convoy has been moving around the lubricate for months. once a day it's poisonous hall is loaded onto a special truck and taken to the gate moonstone. the company is the only one in the country allowed to dispose of chemical weapons. any chemical weapon who fit an agent found on german soil is brought here gobs of food at home got on average we have $1.00 to $200.00 shells being brought here most of them come from the region north of monster so you all but for example 2 years ago we had some from button button birds. that off on the bay were doing some building and brought us chemical shells that still contain the nerve agent tabone hardness of wood and they have come short of wood and are. just
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a drop of tub one is enough to kill a person full of her she is responsible for destroying the gas before he sets to work he meticulously checks skia thank you even that i if there's any dirt or contamination in this area or if any of these plastic pouncer damaged it could allow toxic agents or poisonous gases to get seen and that's why it's really important that everything fits here that everything is clean and that the membrane isn't compromised and is always the cement on it is. always present in nov 29000 when the 1st shell from death an opponent who saw an open an emergency medic was also on standby. it's unbind we get dressed here and then we get into our popemobile and driven over . again that i did before coming up next we enter the front chamber where we pick
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up the shells which we take to be cart also an open water any freeze. we take the shell out of the barrel fasten it at the right height and we leave the room because then it's the turn of the machine operator soros and the shell venting the faeces because when it's open he'll give us the ok we go in and monitor the room for concentrations of warfare agent in view if everything is ok we look to see what the contents are is missing when we've determined that we take a lab sample and any agent is put into a barrel that can be secured and destroy it safely and finished it then. when the shell from death in a pond will saw no pain the chemical warfare agent inside was found to be false changed. just probably mistrustful skin to machine the problem is that shane damages the loans which means bodily fluids can get in the lungs fill
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up and the person effectively drowns on their own bodily fluids and i can cover 7 adding. chemical munitions recovered from declan upon a stored at the peak hour if there really are $20000.00 shells to be recovered it'll take heels to destroy them all. the gay cat is already working to capacity. head of andres kruger says politicians could be doing more because of the 2 of course that costs taxpayers money in the end you have a safer environment but that's not immediately visible so maybe that's why it's an unloved child but there's no other option we should be doing something else too. not least because so few people are aware of the many places in germany contaminated by wartime chemical weapons berlin's hostile horse district for example. a document
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that's only way toward the end of the 2nd world war the trail of records on substances found here gets lost. during that schumacher was time you had the allied takeover without any documentation or no document as the task some things here were also top secret so they were never supposed to be documented or the records are still sealed. for decades bolin authorities turned a blind eye unwilling to stir up trouble on the river hafele but things changed in 2018 when the real estate firm planning to build apartments had the area searched for unexploded bombs the company moved in it bargained for. during the search a metal container was found in one of these bomb craters whose origin could not be determined on of the and so the company asked the berlin police bomb disposal team
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to check it out. very determined that the container was filled with the chemical warfare agent clark one comfort of before not. after the unwelcome discovery the real estate company turned to an expert alfred crippen off as an engineer and former captain with the east german army. he's qualified to work with chemical agents such as mustard gas and. he says his mobile laboratory are right next to the building site for an on the spot soil analysis. is long gone you're expecting a very strong contamination of the soil here and also the recovery of large amounts of materials containing arsenic such as quark one and clark 2 most you can name. given that the site was once home to a world war 2 factories that make chemical warfare agents this is hardly a surprise. some of the old buildings are still there.
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for decades no one paid much attention parties were held at a boat house here and the former owner of the berlin housing authority did nothing . now the authorities say it's up to the new owners to clear any old ordinance. but the investor doesn't want to pay for it because that would mean passing on the cost of this toxic legacy to bias and tenants. the need to. hear old glass containers from the lab area and here is a piece of the barrel. the ground is full of things like this doesn't hide other stuff and you hear more from one. tons of arsenic have already been recovered so far 1000 barrels have been filled to prevent dust from spreading through the water is constantly being sprayed over the
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area. and the poison has been detected in the groundwater. the barrels have to be transported to moved it to be destroyed the cleanup operation has 8 figures son. but what about the neighboring properties cloche film studios are all needs. yes i'm not and on the other side new apartments are being built could they be chemical weapons in the ground there to. foster him told us what we've got no idea what's behind that fence or in the neighboring lot slightly off from wouldn't you can assume that the soil is contaminated there as well as to know it was a thought you know you can only hope that the new owners or whoever moves there also plans to switch out the soil because we know how heavily contaminated by arsenic the ground was here it would be good if everyone did what we are doing through it all as all of it. other studies have shown the public areas are also
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contaminated with arsenic and uncomfortable truth for the city of perlin after decades of turning a blind eye authorities have to face up to this toxic wartime legacy and it's likely to cost them a lot of. exploratory drilling at diddling a pond in lower sex and he ended after tuning up $2552.00 gas shells in spring 2020 local district and regional state level officials agreed to excavate and completely clean up the area. known as sex abuse environmental mr leask says it was the only option. is also says she grew so it's much more the extent of the contamination is much greater than we have michelle we thought it was i would say we will have to invest at least $50000000.00 euros to get rid of what is there fortunately that can be done in this fairly compact area to make it safe for
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getting pregnant. but the minister doesn't want lower saxony to have to pay the costs on its own he wants the federal government to share the burden. as moving as we would have to say there will be a little friction with the federal government over who pays and is in my eyes the government is responsible to put it differently shites residents here should know this won't not happen because of money it has to be done the government has to realize i'm not ready to carry their share it has to be fairly divided times. the monster neighborhood of a roll is just a stone's throw away from diddling a poll and if anything goes wrong at the excavation site this will be the 1st place affected. fleckenstein spoke with residents. that's we have kind of you know a huge amount was going up on no one thought about how dangerous it was for the
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environment and for the people here. even mentioning. vick. talking flares you know point being scared if he wouldn't try to stop a cleanup because it has to be done what a noise me is that they took so long to act like this. in the end the government agreed to help fund the cleanup painstaking operation has begun to reopen a field in. an engineering firm was brought in one experienced in clearing chemical weapons it's boss applauds the lower saxony government for showing integrity on the whole he says german politicians are far too reluctant when it comes to dealing with the almost 200 suspects contaminated by chemical weapons. in the early 1990 s. the federal office for the environment pushed for research to get an overview of
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the situation on these sites in germany systems on gotten as that led to some federal state setting up so-called ordinance decommissioning program which resulted in targeted investigations being carried out at several sites with bones and but it was never completed and. in addition to the toxins present in the soil and groundwater the engineer has other concerns to sinatra's. there is the risk that a. explosives and even warfare agents could end up in the wrong hands and the gun could and that would pose an even bigger risk to the population of solutes quizzical photographer pushed it. one of those warfare agents is the nerve gas sarin one of the most horrific chemical weapons ever made and is a constant polities are the nerve agents are probably the worst from come because even just very little concentrations can damage a person's nervous systems and paralyze the wrist near
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a tree center leading to death from or spirit tree failure to mention stand on an autumn facade. first sergeant tools constructs surveying a sinister place to brooms at the center of plant in munster. just different ones here on mars i mean this is where the salmon plant was without . due order the end of the war they carried out trials here into the mass production of the warfare agents aren't here to get our money and so at that time they only produced half a tonne when viewed on what they would have eventually been able to produce 50 tons of sarin a month here so any more not at the hailstone can. during the war the saturn factory was disguised as a farmhouse from the air there was no indication at the experiments being carried out underground. when the british took over the plant after the war they continued
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to research briefly and then blew the plant up the buildings above ground were destroyed but what if the underground. kind as a wish to call this place hasn't been checked properly it's toxic nobody knows what could still be in here in the laboratory equipment production site materials or even munitions that were given to as a company to no one knows for certain and there are no plans to search the saturn. but the german army says it would cost too much. in bottles and fragments of other lab a quip meant lie strewn around the forest none of it's being tested clear. to many other priorities means the army has little time to inspect the grounds. it isn't clear where the civilian side of interest cost.
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is kind of wish for no one has been caught so far as if they were there would be a stiff penalty and he and it's because of the whole i strongly advise against coming to this part of the property because it's very dangerous and there are ruins from when the buildings were detonated and there's a huge chance of falling into an old shaft and never being found even though the fronts of india cements schools. france's war fields are awash with gas shells from both sides in the war. after the 1st world war they were incinerated by the median in french forests. you bay has been researching the almost industrial scale destruction. on demeanor. for simone weil that it in 2015 we were officially commissioned by the environment ministry to signpost the forgotten places where chemical weapons were industrially
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destroyed. it so an inventory of at least 50 sites was conducted which is still ongoing. addition of just. these forests neutral and northern france is one site where chemical weapons were incinerated according to estimates several $100000.00 tons were destroyed. there are many spots where nothing has grown for a century the ground is full of toxic fragments of munni. in class containers and yet the forest is excessive to everyone. some of the seals in fire do when you're going ok we have to feature you. this is a state owned forest and so it's open to the public good people often come here to pick mushrooms and it's not inconceivable that they could come into contact with toxic waste you guys can see you see they could stick their fingers in their mouths after they've been playing here for example that proceed to share it and one is off
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on a 20. that just like in germany no one here wants to take responsibility and bear the costs. of some of the people shot off at a place at a monkey factory there are several reasons for the lack of willingness to deal with the problem i just saw 1st the contamination took place 100 years ago the responsible party has long since disappeared names he and the war ministry that gave the orders also no longer exists so now the question is who can be held accountable who is responsible and who paid 70 years most of it off it's just a case. however several incidents have forced the french government into action. not because i'm a sucker for quick eating there are accidents every year that the french government does what it can as soon as something is found the weapons are recovery soon on the
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lawn or to the chemical ones are put in storage until the plant to incinerate them is complete the mission and the explosives are low enough so it's we're exposing them. in france ordinance disposal is financed and run centrally by the national government in germany accountability lies with each regional state and their budgets vary greatly that's why german experts would like the federal government to take more control and responsibility. because people of the regional states keep putting forward proposals for the federal government to take over the costs of ordinance removal till now they've been consistently rejected for up to the. it's a hot potato that keeps getting passed back and forth we received this quote from the finance ministry who are responsible for this matter. please direct your
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questions to the ministry responsible. the federal ministry for the environment nature conservation and new clear safety. the environment ministry was quick to respond. the federal government contributes to the disposal of chemical weapons through the federal ministry of finance as to the clearance of contaminated ground here of the regional governments and not the federal government are responsible this is currently not on the federal agenda. many contaminated sites belong to the german government like the former look at mit's media plant in northeast germany where chemical weapons were manufactured up until 945. geologist your hannahs price is here for the 1st time he's interested in the site because it was laid out in a similar way to form a war munitions factory in bavaria he studied. properties such as this one a managed by the institute for federal real estate beata heist and lisa command are
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in charge of administration and safety here. this is the only bunker not to be blown up by the soviet army after the war. where you lost does come or so this was used for mustard gas which was transported here from the factory near hull or and stored in one of 7 bunkers. isaac's bunkers were used to store mustard gas and one bunker or rather assistance was used to store clark. the main part of this plant was dedicated to producing munitions empty cartridges mines and shells were filled here are gone not the wooden you go for red means out of bounds white all clear the science show which parts of the 100 had tape property can be accessed and which can't know maps or plans so the foreman munitions factory remain so you have a strong uses the bavarian plants layout for orientation. in
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the us shells were transported around the factory via conveyor belts through a network of subterranean tunnels ruins of those tunnels still survive. after the collapse of east germany the grounds was fenced off these get checked once a month and 90 survey determined the contaminated areas which was sealed off the ground water was found to be severely pollution by residues of arsenic and mustard gas. is in the thing i'm fairly say other very high concentrations of pollutants in the groundwater which are confined to certain areas so the toxins reach is also limited have been decreasing there's a clear decline that's why we asked whether we need to take further action to clean the soil here the ground water here also isn't used for drinking 3 houses here have water wells but there checked regularly twice a year and thankfully they haven't shown any sign of contamination so. if you
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haven't gotten kind of stuff with us. but is the problem really solved just by putting a fence around it your highness price says. he's concerned by the many off limit areas and the blind spot when it comes to war time poison he says they could still be chemical agents in the cisterns here and toxic gas shells buried in the ground for him the fence isn't a solution it's part of the problem. counsel for giving me your full can do what they did here and say we don't see any immediate threats and in case there are any we'll put a fence around it but let's consider the long term picture i don't see that fence still standing in 75 years still 150 years old and wounded from ft and the problem won't go away on its own and. we clearly have to do something to it's a further issue the next generation will be saddled with it you need to go look at
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. the debt lean upon monster will hopefully be clean when it's passed on to the next generation even if it does cost $50000000.00 euros but that'll only happen if local regional and national politicians stay in agreement and as long as taxpayer money flows reality for a lot of fun for all of us who bear responsibility to day are not to blame for what happened years ago we don't know how we would have acted if we were alive down and down but now it is our responsibility to make sure that this problem is resolved leaman even of. the world war one ended more than a 100 years ago world war 2 more than 75 germany is really associated with chemical weapons today but they remain in the country and to take to it and in unknown quantities even when i retire there will be plenty of munitions left to clear in germany. job of the man i think that if you don't
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have 1st hand experience of something somehow somewhere can you don't know how to deal with it. and vice and if on top of that you might cost money and been it's not interesting. that this is still we don't include. the middle so we have to acknowledge that over the coming years many many billions more must be spent on a lemonade ng and cleaning up the weapons of the past difficult. if young guys you know is a 6 and i began researching contaminated signs 34 years ago in 1906 by diminished and in my view it's an issue that's far from over and does that leads me dissatisfied lee i thought it would happen a lot quicker chinelo than that i thought once we tackled it and the resources were made available before and the clean up was made a priority that we could do it there is that phrase we can jewett us all to say but
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about billions. it's about power. it's about the foundation of a new world order the new silk road. china wants to expand its influence with this trade network. but in europe there's a short morning. except money from the new superpower will become the. second is because. the chinese state has a lot of money. and that's how they're spending. in physician in the old place china. starts feb 19th.
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