if society. differently. with their words. and how sustainable this culture. the leaders of the ringgold georgia marching on t.w. . just do one call for years of prime minister mon khan has actually done the fight for buck a song you know the public's not buying that after a very long time involved you saw this and more corruption scandals in the fall put out if you have to go is there a parallel justice system in your country in the next 6 months you would see the number of missing persons will be futile you think it's a 6 up to bill to intimidate the press i see no problem with the freedom of expression opposition parties in pakistan have been upping the pressure on prime minister emraan khan in a series of recent mass protests they say he's

a puppet of the military and has mismanaged the economy as inflation spiral there's also concern about the state of human rights and press freedom my guest this week from islamabad is fall watch choudhary the pakistani minister for science and technology what has his government to achieve who's calling the shots in pakistan. mr fowler chattery welcome to conflict zone thank you for having me it's half way through your government's charm and there is rising anger at high inflation and poor economic prospects the opposition has united they say that your prime minister imran khan that he is incapable and that he is merely a puppet of the military is he. well frankly all the positions meant in the same line it's just a non-serious argument i believe. this 2 years of prime minister non-con

has actually done that died for baucus sung at the time when the whole world is actually struggling of the cold would buck is on is probably the only conclude that has shown remarkable i would say that we have achieved the success that nor the country could have even imagined that by this onward we have we have successfully. we have. economic stability. and anything that you can imagine you know the best case scenario that you can attribute to any control in the global buckets on it is for that and that's when the world has actually acknowledged like a sun for the uk but mr minister i'd like to ask you because let's look at the seriousness of the argument in fact let's look at the management of the pandemic on march 22nd the prime minister told the nation that the government would not institute a sweeping lockdown less than 24 hours later the military announced that the army

would oversee a shutdown and they have been orchestrating the response ever since so who's calling the shots. that's that actually is not true the 1st chord gears and focus on the going to 6 february i think by this on was was i would say among the very nations that initiated. steps to secure its borders and ports in the 2nd week we actually based all over. the word started have to do with the lead sic in the. refereeing there was no complete block known in pakistan and prime minister this istra god from day one and that is the reason that in pakistan we never had complete lockdown we only had partially lock don't and actually very well managed lockdowns and military is part of the government

and we are actually the policies of the government have the full support of the army so pockets i mean prime minister called the short and pakistan army sports mr minister you know there are members former members of the military who don't agree with that assessment in fact and i just like to turn to the statements of a retired general who says the government in fact left a big gap in its handling of the coronavirus the army has tried to fill that gap there was no choice so in other words he's saying the handling of the coronavirus crisis one of one of the greatest challenges of the past decades and the civilian government could not rise to meet it who said this this is a retired general who was quoted by the financial times on april 25th 2020 but. i'm retired and looking on the condition of anonymity. look now this you see obviously a sort of

a clear statement so all business any oil any retired general is just like any other citizen or baucus on we don't know his political affiliation but forget about what border guard jim miller and i want to see is the question is that what. we have we stand today the government of the producers or not the fact is a buck is on today is it has been appreciated by everyone on the bill would have and so it's it's really been who said what so you have to see the consequences and result and by this improved success and i have to give credit to the prime minister's policies and certainly me pretty supported by the son prime minister's. part of the government let's move from the coronavirus crisis to the management of pakistan's economy was started a little bit earlier that the economy was doing very well but you know the assessment of the world bank is that you had double digit inflation last year and they also say that your economic prospects for this current year remain below

potential tens of billions of dollars right now are being invested in the major infrastructure project the china pakistan economic order or c pac it's happening on your soil it's supposed to spur economic growth last year you installed a former military general to oversee it could you not find anyone in your civilian government to handle it. frankly ones are doing those that are dieters as much a civilian as any other civilian and actually the human resource. we found the best which that that their laws embody has served in the army but fact of the matter is that he is one of the most competent officer to handle this he knows pro and cons of this project. a long time and we would like anyone would like you know someone with hands on experience to handle such projects and that's why he was selected so secondly there as you mentioned about the economy you see we inherited. an economy

that was in shambles. was literally at the brink of bankruptcy and we started initiated oversteps from that very moment today a pox on the economy is far better. at the time when we are actually in their mood all day by the sons of rupees doable by his sons but his son has turned to the i would say the biggest step of prime minister non-con is that he has actually germinated the industry in pakistan for it is box on export has touched the highest by the sons of. the highest at the moment we are nor we are not putting money to stabilize rupee by their dollar bet it being we are actually the money is stable no not a minister i think let's turn now to one of enron coms big promises when he came into office and that is to stamp out corruption the anti corruption agency the

national accountability there are only an a b. has arrested around a dozen politicians from the opposition since then how many have been arrested from their party why would anyone who would have been arrested for my party it was all have no iraqi an interest in the. point if there is any you should point out who should be arrested from a party. well let me tell you what the supreme court of your country thinks about your handling and how you're approaching the anti corruption campaign and a stinging decision last year the supreme court said that the anti corruption body the national accounts ability pirro is selectively applying its laws on individuals when it pertains to opposition politicians for 15 months without credible charge your top bar association goes one step further to say it's a tool for arm twisting of political opponents so how can you say that the anti corruption campaign is legitimate with such

a stance on it like that. so. i would like to explain this in a bit to you know you see this whole national accountability bureau the anti corruption institution we have more the government has not appointed even. a lot of stuff in this you know organization from germany from the german of the knob to the very lowest each and every one is appointed by the pm and then they don't know why should he or she had called on a boss either his nominee as a prime minister or them. despite the so the whole institution of the law itself was actually passed by a pm i learned in $1000.00 men to salman then people's party did indeed the whole organization is actually established by either to be part european milan all the guess is they are charged with. not by us each and every case they are

facing are actually fly by because party views be a 1000000 or pm and i am against people's party so it is a witch hunting all investigations of this is these cases were actually complete even before prime minister took over thirdly did is the evidence against them is not orderly evidence where you will you know pick up someone and force him to a make a statement each and every key is based on exit. documentary evidence for example leader of the opposition shahbaz sharif is behind the bars and it isn't evidence of $41.00 volumes against him with each and every money he transferred out so $2.00 money laundering has been accounted for so does not think. it's just fashionable to sit to criticize you know the process for accountability but fact of the matter is that every pakistani citizen or that holder plundered pakistan every every one more the fact of the case that is so maybe you can give this impression to the foreign

media. did is a return thing but in fact over it is every progress on the most at all look this is our business in the modern well it's not just the foreign media we have to say mr minister that the european commission assessment of pakistan also raised red flags that there are very few cases of ruling party ministers and politicians that have been pursued since the $29000.00 elections amnesty international also points out that the crackdown has actually increased since the opposition united this this past fall they have called on you to cease using the national accountability bureau to detain critics of the government where is the accountability mr minister. well frankly suggesting that it is important that the people in the gloaming travolta will be arrested for mood is a is is i grew. and this quote an incident in modern i would say if that is any case against an eagle muddle through should bring before the court

order before the mob and sure that everyone's only making a political statement does not rest with a book that i also appreciate that mr miss mr minister that let me ask you about one particular case i'd like to talk about one very exposed person who is seen as affiliated with your government that is a retired lieutenant general. we spoke about him earlier he was appointed head of the c pac authority he's been accused of not declaring his family's assets properly as you know. so this is the person who you trust to manage your major infrastructure project but what was i think you should have used to the allegation is what i believe you should against him the allegation is that he didn't properly file his wife a wife stuff that's the allegation is that he built businesses his family built businesses in multiple countries around the world worth tens of millions of dollars and the big question is you know you're trusting him to have this infrastructure

project at the very least it doesn't not warrant having him stand aside while you marry an investigation to avoid any appearance of impropriety that is what the opposition has called for. i'm actually their liberation against him is that these 7 years of his brothers in the united states of america they've built companies they build companies enrich his wife shared about 13 or 15 percent of you know the shares belonged to his wife so i'm unable to understand that if this bill if this whole empire is built on corruption and that through in the united states of america where is the evidence to go out and if he has transferred money to united search for america from here and some money laundering as you know under the new money laundering regime in the hole in the international and minority regime he can easily be comprehended but the fact of the matter that is that

a position to use such kind of propaganda or loot to malign political opponents when it comes to hard evidence there actually has nothing mr minister in this case . you know the public's not buying it the public perception is that corruption in fact is on the rise under your administration according to reporting from transparency international so since they simply aren't terribly confident in these efforts that you're speaking about right now are they. actually. know no coming transparency international actually i believe i have gone to the board of france but international and i believe it's a very vulgar to report and. the emphasis is and the point they have raised are actually needs of careful consideration for example there is one point of. pakistan in description and that's because of the lower judicial court system in pakistan and i believe they're concerned you know that you've just this is and also

the revenue departments and the police department did need to get together and obviously work out that why. people have you know the kind of they don't have fear from these systems so i believe their response international board is very right on that other hand i would like to point out there are after a very long time and by this there is nor corruption scandal at the ball put out of the government did is years 5 months of this government not just single scandal for the minister this is very i would say. this on because this on the country is under used to be a government of people's party and pm and then they didn't do and hard for him and actually all the minister would have to give the money mr minister i'd like to move on beyond your anti-corruption campaign there's allegations of human rights abuses that have been mounting there's been recent demonstrations from family members demanding answers for people forcibly have disappeared

a term used for state back abductions is there a parallel justice system in your country where security forces decide who is going to be taken. well frankly progress on has had being into a situation where for example united just search of america build this whole guantanamo bit and there was a huge debate there and this happened likewise in spain the detention period actually gone up to sammy news so there was a drastic measures taken by the by the by the european countries by the america when the minutes of terrorism if you crossed our limits and that happened in pakistan as a but no not a military back in pakistan you will appreciate the biggest number of missing persons was in previous. from google in 13 to 18 but didn't do one hard for years a role for prime minister non-con government the number has actually declined very visibly declined and i believe that in next 6 months you will see the number of

missing persons will be 0 mr minister ok so you say the number of missing people will be 0 tell me because your government and this has been reported has finally decided to expedite a mek mechanism to resolve the issue but you didn't do this on prompt it if you. i understand that the islamic high court ruled last month that the prime minister and his cabinet could be held responsible for these forced disappearances so why should anyone trust that action will be swift and concrete and that these families indeed will get answers. actually shift and we're wards are we already bringing the law through with missing persons and the people in ward in the missing persons can actually be prosecuted so we are taking all their actions paul said look. i think of the situation has improved a lot and number of missing persons as i said before has declined to a very significant this is

a pretty significant change you can anyone can actually tell you and i believe that the next few months you will see. mr minister i just like to to driver one's attention to something that you have said on the matter publicly in fact you issued a tweet this was in february where you wrote the following these mothers can protest in punjab and yet no one will shoot them after looking at their id cards but what can we do about the sorrow of those mothers whose sons are shot in baluchistan just because they are punjabi just speak about the atrocities everywhere and say you know that the color of punjab blood is red to this tweet was sharply rebuked as rubbing salt in the wounds of these individuals is this how you deal with the grievances and the questions from the citizens of your country. not thought this is just so. sweet rhoda depiction of the situation and this is what i'm saying i'm i'm i'm not i'm not denying that this is not my great perfect love about it is that punjabi. be youngsters really really

young boys have been killed in baluchistan by the terrorists supported by by a b a laid back by india unfortunately the punjabi mothers are not more. you know sons in baluchistan but this is the fact of the matter unfortunately india has created the situation in baluchistan the young jobbies have been killed mostly the city and unfortunately the bombs of these mothers are still i mean how can you hold on to describe the. describe the situational mother was going to go in that situation where his son was actually asked to come out of the bus train there like you are going to face but you won't be as you incarcerate you appear to be deflecting the blame so i'd just like to ask you u.n. rights groups they have been calling for action in one particular case and i'd like to draw us to it that is the trade case of just contact human rights defender

formally of amnesty international he was reportedly forcibly disappeared in 2019 or arrested by security forces under the official secrets act the u.n. says he was held incommunicado for 7 months so more than half a year he continues to be deprived of his most basic rights what does that say about the rule of law in your country and wouldn't this be a good opportunity to start with transparency and answer the un's call for an investigation. no 100 percent prime minister is very clear on that if there is any case i don't have more details of the documents. i don't know board and the thing about this case but in all cases prime minister has really kept a good he said that there should be nor. is without a proper legal course adopted in progress on this one. as i said in bruges on the yes there is a situation unfortunately the just do it is going on back by india. that

situation is obviously what is some but actually we are dealing with it mr minister let's talk about freedom of the process censorship has reportedly been on the rise of journalists who pay the military or the governments in a negative light have faced threats human rights watts describes what it calls a climate of fear you were once a journalist former minister of information you think it's acceptable to intimidate the press. does more acceptable than in pakistan i believe. is probably one of the most free media the world going to merge and we have been barcus on this nor. to the fact that by the sunday media is very very powerful. actually many people believe there should be a strong defamation laws which are not here unfortunately but by those on the media . i see no problem if you say it's a very expression if you say it's free event then please explain to me why respected programs including the b.b.c.'s are 2 language bullets and have pulled

out of the country after what has been described a constant interference by channels under pressure from the authorities why journalists have been charges have been brought against them others described campaigns of online hate to intimidate them reporters without borders has condemned the campaigns they've asked the government to do something about it so where's the action. let online here do something that politicians feel is the most i feel is the most because you know when i would. every day i feel for the was. almost the 2nd day on something and i go to church so most of the journalist or medicine or the bottom line is going to lawrenceville it online hate it's more than just online hate i mean the european commission and its assessment and assessment of pakistan says that the increasing pressure by security forces with the tacit approval of the government on those with dissenting views including the media this

is what they're reporting about the situation that it comes from you ok so 1st is that i would like to spin the online here do something that every segment of the society feeds and politicians are actually the most well known but now come into the other. area that you said can you please name any journalists who have been actually intimidated by the state and by the agencies is there any source of salut issue that you can really absolutely engine of 2019 t.v. screen suddenly went black during geo news interview with the former president because cable t.v. operators disconnected transmission at the military high command behest that's according to reporters without borders voice of america has also reported periodic blackouts for example. we don't i don't think there's any black oak involved is not invited on the. we have about 150 channels the number of journalists as they can thousands so i don't see any incident you

have been more been able to name one person who has actually been intimidated by the state agencies if there is a personal case of someone like concepts and then mr minister i would say. perhaps you will believe. a justice of the supreme court who recently said in a hearing that the media in the country is not free and of the country is being destroyed in a systemic manner perhaps you will believe that statement and perhaps you can also explain to me why your prime minister has separately cried foul and said that politicians are being targeted with live this reporting do you expect people to believe that you are really the victims here and frankly of their drugs would have lost the who hold many believe the tradition is free and how many people many judges have been appointed don't matter i would believe the answer would have been seem so it's actually did you should not make such

a political statement because it didn't come back to haunt them and it was very unprofessional for judges to say to make such statements and everyone know why he's doing that and what is his background there's a case against him. obviously he has very few years there why government and others are just very much and mr minister another justice on the court of great wealth and justice bach here chimed in when he made that statement he said that judges should ideally avoid such comments but what can be done when the country itself is not in an ideal situation how how long can judges remain silent he said but what is what is your idea of the joneses make political statements. that's that's not for me to decide. ok thank you very much this is what the ice. political statement minister for our charity thank you so much for joining us on conflicts around.

article 5 of the universal declaration of. no one shall be subjected to torture. by the cia it still dedicated time and effort into researching torture methods. and the results led to one of the darkest chapters in u.s. history. on d.w.

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this is d.w. news live from berlin the landmark verdict here in germany aimed at bringing justice to syrians a german court has found the foremost syrian secret police agent guilty for his role in atrocities committed by the assad regime activists see a precision for the cases of brutality in the long running conflict also coming up . global progress in the fight against covert 19 gonna becomes the 1st country to receive vaccines on the new wind backed plan.