from politics to fashion from housing to top this is what. welcome to the 77 percent. this week v.w. . right now what we have to do is to do everything we can to get out of the funded use of the chinese communist party would use up the global public as of today we are not set up to single out countries why has that been no formal and public protest about trying not withholding the data you want to ask paul why don't you explain that to me we are very good focus on saving light the world health organization is under fire from governments and scientists over his dealings with china during the pandemic many think it's been too soft on breaking down too willing to accept

everything it's told my guest this week from copenhagen is the european regional director for the w.h.o. fund kluger does his organization of the found out to the chinese when it needs to . come to school go welcome to conflict zone your recent fact finding mission in wartime has provoked a firestorm of criticism from many scientists and others around the world complaining that your messaging seems to give far too much support to china's preferred narratives which in my view impartial nor objective why are you doing that. well let me remind you that i'm the rector for the region which covers the 53 european member states right in china doesn't belong to that one but if i speak from let's say a genetic point of view did

a poor thing is being written up as if we are speaking no will be made available and if we take to the issue of transparency accountability and reinforcement of the international regulations that's globally speaking certainly one of the main points that the independent panel for pandemic preparedness and review is looking at right now well you don't seem that independent because you know you're pushing the notion the virus may have circulated elsewhere outside china before it was identified in wu han and that is one of beijing's favorite scenarios at the moment this idea was even included in your missions term of reference document and this had to agreed be agreed by the chinese government before you were actually allowed into the country so you were towing china's line right from the start weren't you well. please allow

me to remind you i am the region director for the 53 european member states not a director general in geneva i think this question would be very best versed to be told you need for the specific region but let me make a more generic point here that the world health organization is not the world health inspector that we are a government by de world's nations right and that's something for. your credibility is on the line here your credibility is being questioned. last year japan's deputy prime minister actually called you the chinese health organization as opposed to the world health organization. so i want you worried about your credibility what's happening to him is that in the world health organization is a technical organization and from the very beginning dubnyk who has been acting fast if you look at the 1st report was sent to the ritual the 31st of december

immediately did after degree actually triggered the structure it's called incident management structure to get ready for an alarm at the highest level that is what's happening and of course there will be what we call a very for in sick after action review who said what who said what to who deny or has a right now i understand that and therefore your full report your full report is still awaited but up until this point you've you've upset a lot of people the american bio safety expert professor of chemical biology for instance richard a bright spot for many when he called your mission a sure rod it has no credibility he said its members were willing in the end they were at least one case eager participants in this information the pre-determined pre-ordained purpose of your mission was to raise the false flag proposal that the

virus originated outside china and arrived in through international travel or internationally shipped frozen food no serious person he said consider point to point that it was if i were explanation right 02 points if i may the 1st one is still in the midst of the pandemic so we are focused on saving lights including a global roll out of the vaccination number 2 as i am responsible for european region we already are taking forward very important lessons learnt from the pandemic. well you may be taking voice lessons but you're upsetting a lot of people in the process the white house itself the biden and ministrations said last month we have deep concerns about the way in which the early findings of the investigation were communicated and questions about the process used to reach them the fact is this mission of yours that well may actually have made things worse my dead relatives i don't want to speculate because i think that would be

unfair as my territory is the 53 european member states over here but as i was mentioning the degree to director general was tasked by the work of assembly last year to establish independent panel for a pandemic preparedness and review which has delivered it 1st interim 2nd interim report recently to the executive board and they for sure will be doing the job what we're doing here in the region every single day and talking to ministers to prime minister to presidents right from what they make at night and to help them to contain the virus well everybody is awake at night wondering whether they will get to the bottom of the central question which is how did this outbreak 1st a car now at one point during your mission to china china refused to hand over information that the w.h.o. had been requesting for some time my question to you is why did the organization

not insist on access to all relevant data before you actually went to china well i think that's a question of degree 2 or geneva but we'll let you quote you key in avoiding any question. you represent the w.h.o. and therefore you have to sell what they're doing in china now investigation to your european partners i'm asking how you can do this well they seem to be obvious holes right away this investigation has been proceeding. i have a mandate write a report to the 53 degree to european member states but of course we are part of a global organization absolutely right and that's why in any degree short of foreign i think germany has been quite straightforward on that one when it had the e.u. presidency and which is a very strong supporter of a double reform that there is an issue globally vif accountability in the reinforcement of the international regulations particularly if countries or not

allowing independent mission or if they do not share data at the global level and that's something that has to be taken forward the w.h.o. is as strong as that piece that we are giving to and as of today we are not set up to single out countries why why has there been no formal and public protest about china withholding the data you asked for why. can you explain that as i was mentioning the degree cho is working with its member states it is government by the world's nations to protect health know there is a independent panel which is looking with the demand it of the ritual should be strengthened and one of the main outcomes of the inn i must warn you that your attorney is now announcing over your opinion now of china withholding vital that is standard practice standard practice to ask for in the case of a an outbreak of

a pandemic now do you prioritize 2500000 people around the world who are now dead from this virus well over 100000000 infected or are you just content to satisfy the whims and desires of the chinese communist party which is more important for you do you serve the chinese communist party or do you serve the global public because it doesn't look as though you serve the public at the moment i am serving there tim i am serving as i have told a number of times now the 53 dublin utopian member states right that's what i'm busy with working around the clock with the states are to get it and there is a degree childer form which will be decided by the work of assembly inmate right now what we have to do is to do everything we can to get out of the pandemic and how do we do it number one scaling defection nation effort very important number 2 to be very vigilant that the mutants do not decrease the efficacy of signs asking

understand i understand mr kluger about that but you're not answering my questions which are focused on your mission to china and the concerns that it has raised clear concerns internationally both in europe and america now in the course of the visit for china is not that it's not my mission team this is not mine mission this is a mission of the world which has. been decided by the world health assembly you run for the kind of our marriage pocono ration in europe with a curve you represent the world health organization in your many people in europe are very concerned that this mission wasn't independent wasn't objective and hasn't done a proper job in will right and i want just a regular station right to insist well what i'm doing see point number one degree too has been acting fast from the very moment that the report came out of one

number one number 2 the direction rippin region is already acting upon lessons learnt a number 3 we are taking forward already the most crucial issue which is to get out of the pandemic that is the top priority that i am busy with as the leader of the direction you have in the 50 member states than that time and understand that i want to talk about the mission to will happen in the course of their visit your team poured cold water on the theory that the virus may have leaked from a will hand laboratory and cause the outbreak there they called it highly unlikely and that too has provoked a wave of condemnation from scientists across the world why is the theory of a leak from a were on the barratry so unlikely as far as your team is concerned. well i would like to stick to my mandate of the 53 director european member states of course i'm in contact with my colleagues right and the particularly the director of

the to reach a conclusion of this in china one of the best public health experts i know the geneva and i think really that we should give the mission the tone the quite the space to finish the report which will be followed by a press conference and then all this question spent can be asked i think until the report is finalized that we should give them the space to look at the different heap of this really well we already have plenty of statements from the team plenty of statements from the team leader which have caused concern so we have to deal with what has been said already it goes to the heart of the credibility of your organization when there were questions raised about safety issues in the laboratories in who handle your team leader ben and barak said on february 8th that they were reassured by hearing of the high bio safety protocols in who hands

laboratories what what else were the chinese going to tell them where they're going to admit them and there they had safety problems well how naive this is this that i was not that i yes meant to represent me. sure but let's be straight forward here i'm responsible for the 53 member states do richard if you want you know concerns about this notion to were and are you telling me that you have no concerns about absolutely no concerns we are meeting every 2 weeks with the degree to director general with the 6 regional directors as the global policy group to exchange and look at the lessons the lessons are number one know any country know any organization was ready for a pandemic of such magnitude i think that is the 1st thing and we have to work on that one the 2nd issue is that on them prepared this is a global public goods and that's why established the pan european commission on

health and sustainable development to keep a big health at the top of the political agenda and the 3rd one which you have to look on is the rest of the people in science which are often discussed to dr anthony fauci recently because if the people lose their trust in science then we would be vulnerable for any future pandemic while the point is that the scientists are losing faith in you and there's international condemnation from scientists let me give you an example bruno can are from france's national center for scientific research said that by pouring cold water on scientific theories and pushing beijing's narratives the w.h.o. has been committing credibility suicide there were so many conflicts of interest and obfuscations in your team investigation he said it's as if you had asked iran's president to lead an international check on his own nuclear program you can hardly be indifferent can you so the kinds of criticisms that you're getting from

scientists. right we are absolutely not indifferent team i mean overly solid like this you sound like having no no absolutely not and absolutely not i mean leaving no one behind that's the core of the whole mission right and we need to look how to improve but let me remind you that degree cho it's like a good employee a government organization right for the member states are setting the agenda we try to identify the best practices to share the best practices but we are not calling out countries no it's up to the member states if they would like to revise the international has a glacial but i think we should not underestimate the fantastic work which has been doing by experts by the staff of the ritual giving every ounce of themselves day and night to try to get out of this pandemic and this is still to go to this hill to save lives and to suppress the transmission particularly with the rapid spread

of the mutants do you trust china does the w.h.o. trust china the over king with all member state that's not what i asked you a little that's not what i asked you i asked you whether the w.h.o. trusts the information that china gives you it's a yes no no or head and say yes so you know i stand right so china does not belong to the degree to a tipping region tim i mean that you have to acknowledge so i think that's am not talking about which you have not talk i'm talking about the w.h.o. as a whole the world health organization is a how would you represent in europe and i'm asking you a simple question which has a yes or no answer which you don't seem to want to answer does the w.h.o. trust what it the information it gets from china that's a pretty simple question yes or no. absolutely and we have longstanding relationship with all doubly chill member states we have 20 offices in 156

countries the day after the 1st report was coming out of whom we were in touch with the chinese authorities but this is a evolutionary process even do one mission we not come back with all the answers more questions are giving rise to more questions and 2005 if i do as he said you haven't had to do correctly you are saying absolutely you do trust the information you get from china is that right the all working to get their hand in hand with all the member states we have been asking data we have been asking service the old member states but don't press me please particularly on the china mission because we have a region that actor in the west pacific region it would be very unfair from b. to answer those questions into detail i have not been there that would be speculation so i am here working day and night with the 50 member states of the

region and i think i really would like to stick to that mandate well i want to ask you if you're so keen to say that you do trust child when you've been working closely with china china is one of the most strictly censored countries in the world so to accept anything they tell you without supporting evidence would be extremely risky you'd have to agree to that wouldn't you well i think again this is not a question to meet him right to me but it is a question to you i am what i'd be telling you you represent the world health organization in europe you have to have an opinion but most important thing that has hit the hit the w.h.o. in many years. sure but this is a federated organization right you have 3 levels over there i think it's often have to acknowledge is quite unique in the united nations so we have a division headquarters in geneva we have the 6 regional offices and i am here representing the world health organization about the men they from the 53 degrees

member states and that's what we're doing we acted fast in the european region even before the 1st case was attacked in france we already put up 8 incident management structure and since then everyone has been repro filed into office over here learning lessons during the pandemic to improve public health infrastructure to get health at the top of the political agenda and to really move forward as the model and technical force toward universal health coverage yes but none of that is any good if you are not trusted if you are not trusted and you are not trusted at the moment and the u.s. state department acumen china china with whom you're working closely it accused china of systematically preventing a transparent and thorough investigation of covert 900 origins choosing instead to devote enormous resources to deceit and this information now you as an organization has really sort of the can i say it can i just finish the question please you as an

organization have released information which china gave you without any warning that it comes from a sense and state so you are part of the problem aren't you if they have been if the u.s. state department is correct and china has been putting out in deceit and this information you have also put out to sea and this information. well team you were mentioning a number of times the united states of america 2 weeks ago i had acting and best of the united states of america here india this reach was very clearly expressing the tourist industry to ship of the debris shorty's office for europe and we see collaboration in many had to talk to the region director of the united states and control the doctor. so that i felt a very strong level of trust every single day i had a conversation with the prime minister the president's the involved the youth the

civil society so maybe did we have to agree to disagree but i don't see how we can because the white house itself said last month as i pointed out earlier we have deep concerns about the way in which the early findings of the war have investigation were communicated and questions about the process used to reach them that doesn't sound as though the white house is very impressed with what with what you've been doing doesn't. disappear there is a process in place no team and i think we have to give the process ample time to do its job and meanwhile what we really have to focus on i mean we saw a decrease in the number of cases a decrease in the number of deaths but no we see a resurgence and we see a faster ability of the mutants the people are very very tired of the public has restrictions and i think this is the top priority as of today let's get this around the table and then after which we will do a forensic examination what happened what could have been done better what went

wrong and we're very open minded after the able old break degree told tremendously to for and with the digital health emergency program but right no the focus is on saving lives and this can only be done as a core effort in leaving no one behind and this collective effort can only function if there's trust in it and i'm telling you and those scientists that i've been quoting and others are being. telling you that that trust isn't there and one of the reasons that trust isn't there is that during the course of this pandemic you have repeatedly thank to beijing for sharing the map of the genetic map of the virus immediately you said which wasn't true and you said its work and commitment to transparency were very impressive and beyond words that was a gross distortion wasn't it to praise china for transparency knowing how it's threatened and heresy those of its citizens who try to tell the truth that is a huge insult to those terrible is very important interest is very important i

fully agree and you lot are very important in fact this is the core well i would have a different opinion here i mean the core of my vision for health in the district would have been legion is all about what do the citizens expect from their health authorities and we have a very sort of truth truth that i still look the truth expect the truth it's a human right to have an ambition to tell the. truth will come out in the let's be fair trade hasn't been coming up she says i'm probably you haven't been putting out the truth you've been thanking beijing for transparency when they've been arresting and intimidating people who try to tell the truth and you know that. well did this outside of the director european region control i don't want to speculate over here because i'm really working in the 53 countries but let's what is my concern my concern is that the love of the rest of the citizens in science and public health

because if we don't get that one corrected we would be very vulnerable for a future pandemic and that's what you're looking very hard on with the use with the civil society of the patron of this office that we have to bring in those voices and be very self-critical but right no i would like to repeat because it's so important is to press the fires because the fire is still out there tim and we really have to focus on that one and pull together people deserve the truth millions of people have over $100000000.00 people infected 2 and a half 1000000 people died people deserve the truth they haven't been getting the full truth either from china or from you how we can you possibly restore trust in your organization unless you're seeing to address that central issue yes when i am hearing different voices to be honest i'm definitely did need to be

improvement of each agency but this lack of trust that you are citing in the debris to repin region is not what i'm hearing i have been calling 2 times of hoke my governing body board to look what we are doing to criticize if need and to go forward and in that sense trust yes i mean trust is very difficult to build it's easy to be lost it's a never ending story but right now doubly is the only milty lateral moral and technical force to inspire countries to achieve health for all and we can go to very difficult places that no one else can go including fragile states so that is very important how screw grasping good to have you on the program thanks very much indeed. my pleasure kim.

thanks.

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this is g w news live from berlin tonight accusations of war crimes in the palestinian territories the international criminal court says it will investigate it is a decision that has been 5 years in the making the court's prosecutor promising a principled nonpartizan approach but israel has denounced the move as political and anti-semitic also coming up the death toll from me and mars protests rises as the military steps up its crackdown against pro democracy demonstrators and are they a threat to do.