and weekly radio. if you would like any information on the corona library or any other science topic you should really check out our podcast you can get it wherever you get your podcast you can also find us at twitter dot com. science. tension sound expectations are running high with pope francis the head of the catholic church visiting iraq the 84 year old pontiff is on a mission to bring peace and reconciliation to the war torn country including to northern iraq where between 20142017 thousands of christians were killed under the rule of the islamic state fanatics these days there are still great concerns about the threat posed by terrorism and by covert 19 and the catholic church itself is in turmoil in many parts of the world not least germany so on to the point we ask

pope francis in iraq mission impossible. thanks very much indeed for joining us here on to the point where my guests in the studio are journalist and filmmaker doosan tekapo who says iraq is one of many countries where christians are being persecuted which is why it's so important that pope francis is traveling to the region and also with us is the author and theologian alexander girl of who say he's a papal visit to iraq in times of corona is far from white and a warm welcome suits of baghdad born journalist i mean most in our way who say the pope's meeting with the ground ayatollah sistani will be a turning point in the christian muslim dialogue interesting fascinating indeed thank you all. 3 for being in today an army i would like to begin with you

mentioned your baghdad born you grew up in baghdad the pope is visiting iraq what does it mean for the iraqi people well peter i think iraq is wait wait to debt visit a lot since long long time i think if you go back to the 2000 i think the last top . pulls the 2nd try to also to double to iraq to visit also or south of iraq but because of the political situation under the saddam era it was not possible and why have they waiting so long for a christian leader to come to their country. the weight of his patrol weights that he's present in the war and also the the lessons that he giving not just for the ordinary people but also all for the politician leaders world wide i think this is very important for them for one side from the other side they say iraq is one of

the most important the lands for the energies and also for islam and. that's why this is the the time the beginning ground 0 to come again to the understanding between people from this that religious and also because iraq was devastating the last 3040 years suffering from violence suffering for wars sanctions and so on and i think i described as a martyr to country up. and his visiting give iraq and iraqis a sign of the light in the end of the tunnel give them hope give them a new start to begin to understand each other to present their self not as a country with devastating and war but also a country with hopes with potential of the human being ok i'm going to go off that's what it means for the iraqi people what does it mean for. the pope well i

feel the pope as you indicated already amiya has been there's a long strain of popes who wanted to see you that land this holy land for the 3 monitors to go legends however i would say we have seen last year the photos of pictures of st peter's square abundant the car by mecca being abandoned in the holy sites and she was ill and because of the of the pandemic and you see like bird leaders meeting for the summits online so i'm sure it's not the same like you peruse the streets of iraq or just see the people and greet them however at this is not like an opportune time to go and assemble it can create mass assemblies of people in a time of a global pandemic what's all this going to feel like there's an on the ground at the moment in iraq you know the country very very well its complexities and its conflict. i think it's a big sign for all religious minorities not just for the crew of people especially for example for the people and of course right now we have an awful situation with

people who suffer. what isis has done to them so in 2014 when isis came into this. and they all the route to northern iraq where many people are living christian people and also as the people. they have still suffered to today so we are talking about $2800.00 women and women who are still in the hands of isis and they don't want to be connected always with what happened to then they want hope they want justice and they want the wood to know what exactly happened to them and i think this could be a big sign the 1st time that the pope is traveling to iraq and shows like that like you said before and solidarity and also maybe more hope for the population who then in need of people going to be. people in their mind. and in their hearts

really going to be open to the spiritual message the pope francis brings with him i think when you don't have any other options you have to so for example we have a woman empowerment center in iraq and the 1st time when we started to create a center we said it must be multi-ethnic and multi-religious because of the fact of the consolation but that was very challenging but i think to come together means to speak together and discuss and of hope is strongly needed but it's not the only thing of course we the people there need justice and they want to know how their people have been kid where their bones of their parents are you already talked about couture so we're talking about a modern genocide in the 21st century and it's still going on and what happened to is one. point for abuse what did happen. i think this was the place where our eyes is so to how horrible the

acts were out and for example all men some coach or nearly has been killed and all women to 30 years old for example. who was one of the famous popular women who was in the hands of isis have been slaved and solved at the slave market in in mosul and all children which is very important as well have been sold as child soldier so all the pictures which all of us saw are from cordial and i think this was a big deep pain which is still there and there are many as it is who are also very happy that the pope is coming and of course the people are hoping the religious minority that could be a sign which helped them maybe i mean how well prepared is iraq for this visit while the whole state with its. abilities security. and also

logistics been know by waiting to receive the pope in this extraordinarily visit to iraq i think this is issue is one of the important point but also are you confident that things are going to go well yes of course i think. that i think that is a long discussion has been have been have been between the pope's guards and also iraqi securities and many visiting have been have been also the the white house is going to move but it is the question is not this is the question what are the political an iraq is going to do with that visit with the result of that visit it is just a small a good. idea no good warts or it is after the war there is going to be something action in the ground just to come together just

to close trade and focus and to rebuild the country this is the big question that many iraqis are now asking themselves. for interest not question exam do you all somebody who question the wisdom of the visit and. yes as i indicated earlier i feel it's like maybe. it's like online and certainly it's not the same. but i feel like you know. travel for pleasure vacation or being a pilgrimage it's now not necessarily the time to do that. there's this story that's been going around and when it would start to touch on it's just a little bit since there's been the suggestion that the pope's delegation the media delegation they're all going to be inoculated against the against the coronavirus but the local people in iraq i'm not you know how have that looks bad yes i think of course it looks bad and we have to be careful and take care of all people in the

world not just the pope the pope and for example so i think that. must be very important how to live with that and to bring hope of course is something very important but how it's also a question in terms of corona of hyundai mc i talked with the one of the cardinals is responsible. for his iraqi from the iraqi iraqi church he's responsible to manage and look a stick yesterday talked to me he's told me. the pope himself also wish just to see that procedure still be 100 meters between the people he want also to send that message i am here not to bring you a dangerous but here to give you hope and please keep careful of your healthy and this is the procedure is going to see it i think tomorrow in the footage that we are going to seem to more. important because we have seen several like religious

gatherings in germany to baghdad let's chill an outbreak because if you receive communion or whatever it's got a video even if it's a mast it will become millions of people would be like very close to together so that could be like so i'm happy to hear that the vatican is very cautious about this. but what the bible teaches us says pope francis is that we must act tirelessly on space makers and that means that we should especially strive for reconciliation between the religion here's a short report. the pope has a message for the arab. muslim world as well religions want peace it's others who want war. travel to egypt in 2017. in cairo he met with grand ahmed al tired who is considered an important figure in sunni islam pope francis wanted to engage muslims as part of his initiative to

promote worldwide brotherhood and peaceful coexistence 2 years later francis became the 1st pope to set foot on the arabian peninsula once again he met with grand humam and abu dhabi for their shared message faith lets us see in others the brothers were sisters we must love and support both however received sharp criticism from religious hardliners for this convergence which is also sealed in writing. other stops on his travels in the service of world peace include morocco and now you doc despite the challenges the pope wants to carry his message of religious brotherhood to the country where all 3 major monotheistic religions have their roots is the pope's reconciliation mission more than just symbolic politics. from egypt i lived in egypt quite 18 years ago and started it. all and they're as

much as they can you have like for decades now the. conversation if you will and that's an interesting thing in the past i feel religious leaders were very much prone to just you know make. you see that religious leaders try to appease and understanding various other like. terrorist groups or radical groups within the church or other religions try to undermine this effort so of course the church having like now 5 decades since the. second vatican council of interreligious dialogue and having this dialogue for instance with university but also institutions and. that is of course more than just a symbol that rests on decades of like mutual understanding speak to you it isn't i think it has to be more than a symbol because there are so much challenges especially for them i know it is in

this country that the people have a big hope that there could be more than simple politics. it's a huge burden for them because it is and it's not just that which will make the change of course not but i think in a region where people who. belong to minorities like the christians or the cities this is also very special because to be talking about the fact that they don't have the same rights we're talking about an ongoing genocide we're talking about the feel. instead of what is happening in the future so we're we're talking about sui 40000000 christians who are in the sweat and worldwide and in the place. i think 11 side. and i think this is it could be something to make clear this is the country of

muslims christians and all religious minorities and therefore i think it's more than a symbol. the majority muslim population and in iraq has looked on and seen terrible things happening to the minority christian population shocking shocking things i don't need to quote older figures we're all familiar with the figures. why is that in a sense that the muslim population is open to the message to the pope is bringing with him. i think the question could be are they open each other from both site for each of the messages this is the most important question i think it's make no sense just to send a message to the allies are and as a just receiving i think it is open communication get and take i think when the pope is going to meet the loss is tiny and that this is this is so much hinges

on this means exactly that exactly this is i call it a turning point of the discussion between islamic and christian war because he's going to meet a different color of the spiritual figure i think when we saw in the or in your report that he met many many islamic figures in egypt and in morocco or in him or it's it's was it was a big action and there is a protocol and it is a lock surely a meeting is going to meet a amanda knowledges man in a small small house with a small small way that is understand you know what you're talking about you have been to this is so they ayatollah rents as far as i understand they're not just very very modest very unpretentious from absolutely and he's very simple man and he's not able he don't want to meet to the politician because he he believes that

the state could be managed with the politicians this is their job in my job is a spiritual way to send a spiritual message is. for the people that's why our durley man or person not as a journalist or a politician i can visit him but if i would be a prime minister i think i would not have the chance to meet the pope himself together with me. would give the discussion another another spirit let me give you an a small the course small that is that mixtape gets control of our. society called many iraqis most of them sunni and shia muslims to fight against islamic state. to save the holy places in mosul but there is no holy places for shia or 40 so needs most of them is 40. and they liberate that churches i witness i've been embedded with iraqi witness many muslims taking

the. cries of the church and bringing back who. is from culture for example that was the most. they follow the call of the last heat say this is you are a part of me of us and we are part of fuel i think this is the base is what the discussion is going to be between the pope and i to losses tony and it is very important for us for know what and of course we need solutions by the way because i just stood there and we have to make have to make a big difference between islamistic terrorism and muslims of course and i think. they reconsider lation is very important in their cases and the place where the pope would speak in. very important one because not far from that was the most for

example where daddy called out the caliphate so we all know how. important. has been used in a bad way so therefore we need new pictures from this region and of course. also the iraqi population and the political leaders have to make. they are willing to do more for minorities. how how i described that's very resembling like the character of the pope himself is like. a simple man but just like a man down that's maybe like he's also not like a theologian let's say like ratzinger was like he's just more like a parish priest like taking care of the people like his flock and so i feel that seems to be like if they meet on these on this level and not on a super intellectual level which could also be very intriguing and in a way it seems like those 2 have a similar personality and that makes hope for

a good outcome of this conversation. because i mention of the top of the show the catholic church in many countries around the world is in a period of transition and often very divided point in time does not have any impact on the on the pope's credibility as a spiritual leader. critical in the past i mean look i'm not actually not that critical on the pope as a person himself it's more like the structures within the church that have let's choose the biggest crisis since the reformation age for the catholic church this might not be like playing as much as a road in the country where christianity especially catholics roman catholics. but you see like the child abuse scandal beat in new zealand or poland or mexico or canada as the same ted hen's i believe the church has to change some of their structures in order to to survive to century and become actually in alliance with the moral teachings they spread. well i think to be honest i understand that

discussion in europe and all this critic but it has nothing in iraq as you said in iraq it is no one talk about that at all because the most important message that the pope is going to visit us we should call come him we should invest this visit to send this message to for the rest of the war that we are here we want to rebuild we want to send a positive signal so to say this is going to be a mission is a mission impossible was this that was the wording i used and supper is going to be is it going to be a mission accomplished what are you hoping to see at the end of this very strenuous visit where those huge expectations i think we need new pictures because we know how how strong the pictures of enemies are because this is always the 1st step toward genocide and therefore i think we need new narratives and therefore this trip from the pope could be very

interesting and the question will be. what iraq is doing after that and also how the civil society is moving and. on the other hand of course the catholic church and the hope pope have still own problems in place sample the image child abuse the rule of women so there are a lot of challenges of course but i think the saying that he will that that will not be the question in iraq when he visited there will be also like hardliners on the catholic side to. hold as a photo with the grandma more with the ayatollah they don't like this under the fences benedict deficient council for interreligious dialogue was made to stop division of the culture department because the hardliners took over and said no no

we don't want to have any resemblance that it seems like all belligerents were equal so you see like this is even in the catholic church like the dialogue is not like that everyone is like excited in the vatican about this pope's and ever i mean i have to say this is quite brave of him to just pursue that and it's not just religious this trip it's also political because he want to show and make clear that christian minorities must be secure and this regions and the fact that they are not is sad enough but the question would be how to make it possible that christian. living in the future is still possible in the sweden how it was many many years before i think he's not going to big brink. a big change in the ground there actually. i think it is ongoing process whether it is in politician question how to secure the minorities to rebuild the country or

but the main important point how to bring the human beings together under the base of the respect. for each site and also accept each other and also off the. brotherhoods how to communicate with with other person with other faiths other religion in a in a in a human way to respect the law that we made i think it feel if they can describe the visit of the poor in iraq i think we both as a holes will build the walls but his visit in iraq will bring to the root of that house and the finishing is a. process in such a troubled country as iraq what makes you so want to mistake that this could be the outcome because the many of the muslims community understood that the

way that the extremism. is present it is not of their faith it's not the way of the lie that they wish they try it as they see it they live it themselves especially this on the minority sunni population in iraq and the interest in the end of the time this is not to the life that we want to that's why i'm quite sure that the that the majority will not accept the extremism that's why they are going to engage with this with this discussion of the acceptance ok times over there thank you very very much for those final words i hope your optimism is proved it is vindicated by this weekend's event we'll be talking about the pope in iraq thanks very much for joining us we have new country food for thought if we have come back next time around it's all and by by insurance.

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