the whole debate on the arctic goes about. because that was an interest clearly these people have in greenland on that was also attractive to use president donald trump you remember who wanted to buy greenland because of a rare earth because it was due to a strategic importance of greenland clearly there are very many aspects. one really interesting thing about this story about the future of there are 2 things that it brings together military issues geopolitical issues. economic issues and environmental issues i know you're a person of ideas can you somehow we've got all together to sort of explain how there was the independence of those factors well this is a tough question but i would say what's going on now with the race for resources in the arctic and economic benefits is very much a kind of 20th century thing and we're now in the 21st century we're in

a climate crisis which threatens civilization as we know it and we all live together on this one fragile planet and we shouldn't be working against each other especially not in the arctic but also not anywhere else we need to work together to solve this crisis ok. the arctic once said demilitarized zone is now rapidly being militarized as we've already seen it's a freeway race for power and influence. for the 1st time the u.s. air force is deploying b. one bombers to norway. just a few weeks after his inauguration president biden is sending a message to russia the usa is prepared to defend its allies against potential russian aggression. experts see it as a signal that the u.s. doesn't want to lose its claim to the arctic. the race for new economic

opportunities in the arctic has brought with it militarization. the kremlin says russia has been arming itself in the north for years by building army bases to defend its territory and legitimate interests. best 400 missiles can reach agreement or alaska. nato responded to the maneuver with large scale military exercises like the triton juncture war games in norway in 2018. for decades the arctic was regarded as a conflict free zone how dangerous is this armament. there's a tendency to blame the russians for the militarization of the arctic is not fair. well i mean you have to say that way russia has been seen and still is seen by many countries in the world also by their but its neighbor countries and as an

aggressor we can see in the baltic states look at the baltic states they are very much concerned about potential russian aggression so it's clear that the country is. have some concerns still to say about russia's expanding military presence in russia. and they're not wrong vladimir putin would surely come in now and save the russians coastline makes 53 percent of the arctic ocean there are $2000000.00 russians living in the arctic region he would say it's good and right that russia is the top dog russia or is the most important nation in the region. well russia is not the most important nation in the region 1st of all let's see that way 'd most of their resources which are proven in the arctic they are actually already they are located in the russian part of the shelf it's clear it's

over 90 percent so we don't argue with that but if we see sea from the point of view who are to belong to i mean of course there is the international religious nation which regulates the issue of the un convention on the law of the sea which says that every country only has the 1st 200 sea miles for itself and not more and if you want more you have to go through a long procedure so basically russia is tied by the international legislation just exactly like all other countries ok michelle in poland china for its part we mentioned it already has called its has decided to call itself a new arctic state what should we understand that what he said what are the chinese ambitions and how frightening may they be for some. ok really johnny's interest in bush and so far reaching. when you when you call so when you call the policy

old as part of the belt and road initiative you have. paula so it's not only the arctic but it's also or you have links to mobile and there. was respect to their own. interests in greenland for example. john already now is. the bald leader in the production of rare earth elements so it's really is a dom a dominant player and wants even to to extend the. dominance of state was so very many aspects concerning china especially in the cooperation with russia and. in the field of naval cooperation clearly something people are concerned about. stefan if you were if you have the opportunity to be a german representative in

a meeting with vladimir putin to talk about the future of the region what would you ask for what would you recommend well i would probably say that. we we need a new era of global cooperation and after the us elections there's more hope for that because we are facing a common enemy and it is global heating. are you. there's a new man in the white house obviously joe biden are you as a climatologist are you encouraged by his personal presence in the in the white house because he's also you know when it comes to the arts and he's i mean he's being brutally belligerent is not the word but he's been very gung ho so. well in terms of climate change i am very encouraged because i know john terry for example personally who is a mary good climate diplomat very passionate about the topic and he got the right advise us now some of my really excellent climate science colleagues from the u.s.

advising the presidency and i think. i think he has said something like the united states is back leading on the climate issue i don't think that i have but i think they are now gearing up to be a leader on the climate issue. who's going to be the lead player that there are tensions there are least 3 for just one question there are smaller nations involved as well and you would talk before we came on air you were talking to shout about your concerns about sweden for example to share a little bit of that for with us because we didn't just written and most recent arctic strategy. military dynamic which they are concerned about and so it's clearly a concern also the also a scandinavian countries share. there's an organization called the arctic council we need to mention them sort of explain who they are and what you know what we'll have from chair will go from iceland to russia and me this years though we

will have russia chairing the arctic council for the next 2 years. hopefully that will be a meeting not only of foreign ministers but also was one kerry in reykjavik and me so all they could exchange views about the future of the arctic hearing are you optimistic from a russian perspective about possible talks between the players in terms of creating a more. rules based future for the region. well i hope so at least when it comes to the climate change issue because there was kind of a wake up all wake up call for russia last year and in the summer of last year when there was a huge these will spill from the facility itself nor ask me go there at russia's biggest producer in siberia and a lot of fuel got into december and rivers and these russia doesn't want to speak

about that openly apparently about these happened because of the selling permafrost . because this reservoir where they feel was contained was standing on the permafrost. so these is kind of a wake up call for russia i hope they know will turn their eyes a bit more to their climate change and we'll talk about that more will be rated to cooperate in this direction more. to mystic of the americans could influence the russians in this way that i can see the dialogue and create durable well i make no political judgments as a natural scientist. michel you said at the beginning of the show we need military dialogue and we need it urgently that's going to give me sleepless nights why do we need military dialogue urgently. because the. the americans should talk about military issues in the arctic and the experts quite quite agree about that point in those moscow and washington that there should be

a dialogue as soon as possible ok last question on the show the question i asked at the beginning who will win the race for the arctic riches stuff on rumsfeld. well i hope we win and it shouldn't be a race against each other. for the russia d.w. can bomb who is going to win the race for the optics riches. well it's not about who's going out when their race it's about. that we don't destroy the sensitive and that meant i would say and there has to be at come to responsibility of all the countries involved. thank you all 3 for being with us today we'll be discussing the future of the arctic i hope things develop well and peaceful in the future if you've enjoyed the show as much as i have and we've given you some food for thought to come back next time round bye bye.

it's been. a member.

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