sushmita. documentary. peace process is a lengthy process is what will you sacrifice for a political solution there is a strong goodwill on the part of the world leadership to promote women who are you powerless to protect your civilians i wouldn't say that there might not be any into the peace talks are back on between afghanistan's government and the taliban which were new the urgency as the u.s. increases pressure on reaching a political solution before a may 1st troop withdrawal deadline amid a surge in violence there is concern over what a power sharing arrangement with the taliban could mean for human rights and especially for women and girls my guest this week is afghanistan's ambassador to

the e.u. and nato people though still ours are is this government strong enough to deliver on human rights or will it be another unfulfilled promise. ambassador solarz i welcome to conflict zone thank you thank you for having me the government of afghanistan is at the negotiating table with the taliban to find a political solution to decades of war your leaders have promised the compromises would not include basic rights how credible is that guarantee when at last week's conference in moscow your delegation included 2 warlords who themselves are accused of grave human rights abuses. thank you sarah the question here is about how to make sure that the hard wound gains of the last 20 years

are preserved protected. to the best possible case they are. promoted i think that's where we are focused today and that's what our people want from us that's the monday that people give us so i think a with that in mind we will go ahead and in gauge it in a meaningful discussion to bring about the sustainable people to have been clear mr ambassador you expect to warlords at the table one of whom is known as the butcher of kabul accused of shelling civilians assassinating intellectuals torture to advocate for human rights for your country. see i think. see the. peace process as a lengthy process and that includes. let's say a number of events to come together so that we can come to a conclusion of the peace process and i think those sitting around the table the

reality of afghanistan and let the people of afghanistan decide on that who they want to see around the table and who do they trust to deliver them the peace that they have been again or almost 40 years but again what will you sacrifice for a political solution this is the symbol that you are sending and i'd like to mention i mentioned one of the laura learn more lawrence the other martial dostum is accused of rape and murder in a deal to shore up support for your unity government he was awarded the highest possible honor in your military the honor of martial what signal does that send not only about how weak your government is but also how principled. see i think when it comes to the question of sacrificing for peace in afghanistan i think we have already sacrificed a lot and we have endured. the most difficult time that one can

imagine but when it comes to as i indicated earlier to the hard work and gains of the last 20 years i think we are standing firm tall to defend those rights and i think that's going to be the case i'm not going to engage in let's say that who was there who was not there i think i can speak for the. delegation of the government of this lawmaker the public off of understand that include in that included a woman who is let's talk about a strong defender and a champion of women right let's talk about that because a lot of people are looking at who was there and who wasn't there and you mentioned difficult times women paid very much so the highest price under the taliban's role on the delegation of $12.00 in these moscow talks that we have been discussing included just one woman as you haven't mentioned one woman to represent the

interests of half of your population is that the right proportion to reflect your vision for peace for the new afghanistan. well i think if we're talking about numbers i think of the 4 people that have been invited from priya to pre-approve prison the government of the slum understand in addition one of them was women 25 percent of women did presentation there but i think that doesn't mean that yes we have to be complacent with. how we were represented there but important is that she was there she is she was there to present the best possible way that what the women of afghanistan expect from those negotiations human rights side says it is ridiculous to expect a single woman in a room full of not just men but in many cases men with long track records of abusive attitudes and conduct toward women to carry all the rights of women on her

shoulders the head of your independent human rights commission goes one step further calling the move on acceptable saying it is a worrying sign for the future it's setting the tone for things to come in terms of inclusive 80 they were afraid. well. i think we're like again. reiterated the fact that it's a it's a pity that we don't have many women sitting there and frankly speaking we are very much for. to see many women from from different parties or from different delegations attending. those those talks. but i think again i think what happened what happened in moscow but let's look at what what came out of that i think what came out of that was a strong signal in the same direction that we all wanted to see which was that none

of the. participants wanted to see. an embrace or they didn't agree or they reiterated on the 2513 the dissolution of the un security council basket and that's i think important that's what should come mr ambassador how about what is going on in your country right now there was recently an attempt to partially ban schoolgirls over the age of 12 from reciting poems or singing a coed gatherings your government eventually said the move quote did not reflect the policies of the ministry of education but it reportedly took days to issue that statement. how does this move breed confidence that you are serious about women's rights. well i think the seriousness of woman of this government i think speaks for itself i think that was a. simple. misunderstanding between the leadership of

a small educational district and the ministry i think it was clear that day. and everything is back to. normal i think it was just a small thing on paper so we shouldn't we shouldn't generalize that single incident that was again misunderstood your trying to frame it as a set as a small thing but the bottom line is that somebody in a position power of power sent out this directive it has sparked outrage one human rights activist calls it the taliban talibanization from inside of the republic. it's a worrying sign isn't it of how quickly the rights of women and girls could be under threat could be taken away. i don't disagree with what you said i think the situation is when it comes to the issue of

a woman and human rights in afghanistan i think it is a difficult situation and some of those what you see is unfortunately some have roots in the. social norms and behaviors in codes that are unsupportive for for women in political life but i think i would again tell you about this this single incident let's do not to generalize it then let's look at the again the track record of this. the last 20 years that what we have done right for women and unprecedented and we did not have these fox that if you see how if you look at them they are sitting in the parliament in the politics in business i think in every aspect of life you can see that it's it's a growing. trend and i think we have to look at that from a ball is defined as you say you want to look at it from

a positive angle not to generalize however there are other conservative moves that have been introduced by your government on these are some proposals to amend some laws the 1st and i'd like to walk through them was a change to the education system that would have children study in setting in mosques for the 1st 3 years of school the 2nd a proposed change to the family law that would allow under age a marriage with the consent of male relatives and the approval of a court so you have people in power who don't want teenage girls to sing but want them to marry. well again if you look at in the last 5 years we. were 480 laws and regulation passed and i think if you go after one or 2 single incidents in the which were which have not been implemented they were just there they were given the bottom line is these are cell phones and they were the rock to being put forward by your government these are the policies being

put forward it's not your government is how it was proposed by your education ministry how could that bode well for women's rights when you are sitting across the table from the taliban who among other things want to decide when girls can and cannot go to school who are known for their violent practices. well i think again it's not our government policy again let's not generalise single incidents order this here and there one or 2 you i think i'm not saying that you will not see them in the future there no not be the last there will be. again attempts to. silence the wives of women or somehow impede the empowerment of women but i think what you need to look at is think the bigger picture the bigger picture states that there is a strong goodwill on the part of the leadership to promote women to protect the arrives to preserve their rights and to promote their rights and again if i if i

get you through the numbers of women that today we have been in the position of authorities in the government in where they are equally sitting with men on the other side of the table whether it's the cabinet whether it's the. ambassadors like mr ambassador these are the deputy ministers but sometimes i just like to sit briefly ask you you know some analysts they are looking at this move they're seeing it as as a bid by the government to get support from conservatives who think that the taliban potentially might win here and this is what the international crisis group one of their analysts has said he says that it looks like you're saying to these conservatives look you don't need to go over to the taliban to get what you want is your government right now so weak that you have to play politics with the future of women and girls in the country. i think if it's about mean that

everyone has the right to look the way they want things but the way we look at it is i think it's not the question about that the taliban are coming back i think if you talk to anyone. in afghanistan to women to girls to men to their need to anyone. i think nobody likes taliban to return and it's not only us i think if it's about the question of a unified democratic and peaceful afghanistan that's what we want the people of afghanistan this is what our international partners one i think there is no question of that well i think again if people go out and to just express their wheels on certain things in social social media i think they can do that but that shouldn't be the benchmark for our judgment about the entire let's say that those critical and vital process is that we are leading in the gov other

groups are under threat in your country as well there's been a recent surge in killings especially of journalists human rights activists the traditional workers doctors clerics the u.n. report $700.00 people were murdered in targeted killings last year an increase of 45 percent over the previous year are you powerless to protect your civilians. no i think that's a reality that we we know that they exist but we also know that who is doing that. and i think. i was disappointed to see. there was this kind of mixed feeling about the u.n. security council statement that a few days ago was issued on exactly the same thing and condemning these these acts but the statement failed to name who were behind that and i think if the states state the statement needed an outburst they can easily go to the to the unanimous

report and clearly mention who are behind that and get into. it when it comes joe or no when it comes when it comes to our commitment to protecting them i think every every action of small or big action of our security forces are to protect the citizens of afghanistan the afghans and i think those do those those those journalists those doctors those civil society activists they are part of that and you know and rights groups they're looking at the situation and the approach of your government and saying that it appears that investigations are either not happening or the government is sharing very little information that there have been you know very little support to help mitigate the risks the afghan journalist safety committee calls the failure to offer meaningful information on the killings reprehensible on the part of your government is this a lack of will or lack of capacity. no i think it's it's none of them.

but i think you have to look at the complexity of the situation. when when we. are asked. our security forces to assume. active defense posture i think that has been clearly misused and abused by the taliban who have also agreed to that so instead of. gauging in large scale attacks i think that's what they tend to do so these are for them they are soft targets and it's just a headline headline but we're trying robbing incidents and they will continue continue to engage in what we're talking about the efforts of your government so let's focus on that the president issued a decree more than 3 months ago to create a joint commission for the protection of human rights defenders amnesty international says the following no practical steps have been taken to make it effective to make it an effective protection mechanism to protect your civilians

a lack of information on any plan or strategy to address the escalating threat has has been presented they see that this de lay that this has cost lives in the country so you set up a commission instead of really doing something. but i think the commission is set up for a purpose and i think it takes time that until. until that commission is fully fully operational laws and i think and then the list again i think to look at the reality on the ground i think you can't. buy many of your civilians who don't have those people it's time that many of your civilians don't have that 700 of your civilians didn't have well i again i think you you are engaging the security forces. are doing the job of the 150000 international troops they were doing prior to 2000 and. 15 i think that's the job of.

fighting taliban plus more than 20 other internationally recognized mr ambassador it's groups in afghanistan so it's not about again i'm not saying that they shouldn't be protected they should be protected it's. it's a work in progress the commission has been just so it takes time but again. and again i think if if if if the other side which is the taliban and they continue to target them. i would write it that there might not be any incidents so tell us then about corruption in your efforts in that regard this is one of the biggest campaign pledges of danny promise to stamp out corruption which has been described as in demick in your country and influencing security as well very much so the u.s. says that you only take action when donors are engaged in that you are often making

just quote paper reforms such as drafting regulations or holding meetings and that's indeed what we saw ahead of a donor's conference in geneva in the fall president ghani after years of promising at finally introduced and establish an independent anti corruption commission did you only set this up because your donors forced you to. well i think again. there are a number of security reforms in the security sector in afghanistan and. the main idea behind those. reforms word that our forces are not only. able to protect our city's citizens but also more example about their history. raised in an international i'm coming to that. corruption that has been described as in demick in your country a spinster scribed by a u.n. report as metastasized as

a cancer in the country even if from the inside well i think i'm not saying that that it doesn't exist i think. that again i think you need to be formed in order to get rid of that corruption whether it's in the government institution or anywhere else in the country and i think on that when if you look at what we have presented in geneva conference was. it was a mutually agreed document with the 3. to 2 to let the to develop to take off on the stone to do a further what you're presenting mr ambassador is not lining up with what you're delivering again i mentioned earlier that the special inspector general for afghanistan reconstruction in the us said that you've taken limited steps on this

is that there are thousands of cases they they have found that have not even been evaluated you know one of the cases where your president made a very big promise he said that there would be meaningful action on recovering the funds for the kabul bank case the theft of almost $1000000000.00 from the largest bank in the country that led to the fiscal crisis in 2010 this was one of his biggest promises of the beginning of his presidency the us says that more than half of the money has not been recovered where is the money where is the justice. well i think a. lot of who are working with prison knew when he 1st started the national unity government in late 2014 i think i personally witnessed how difficult this task was and i did also to witness that how strong president is resolved in tackling the problem world i think i would say that. those

funds have been. again. the numbers don't sit in the present when you look at the top brass from the kabul bank for example the former c.e.o. owing 196000000 according to the head of the kabul bank where coverage apartments he's paid 14000000 to the department nearly a fraction the late founder also in 272000000 that you need to look at this i think is the difficult circumstances and the complexity of dealing with an issue like kabul bank kids because of the too many stakeholders in the point mr ambassador is that this has been described as part of a bigger trend of trend and i'm quoting here from the u.s. report of impunity of powerful afghans as an ongoing issue people that are politically connected politically connected to your government the u.s. inspector general spoke of the following and i'd like to read this for you he said

little progress if any made in combat in corruption is critical oxygen to the insurgency so we're talking also about a security issue here the taliban other terrorist groups they point to the warlords points to corrupt officials the fact that there's immunity if you're a high official in afghanistan you ain't going to jail. no i think that's that's not the case i think. the if you look at the government i think from the top level there is. a strong well to in the culture of impunity from day one of. this government and i think you can you can see that number of ministers a number of the putin ministers generals all have been deferred to the. attorney general's office and i think again. i just mean we also need

a number of the before and i just like to ask you before we go there's signs of fragmentation in your government for example you failed to complete your cabinet you have had as of the beginning of march 7 ministers that have not been confirmed by parliament you have just last week the interior minister sacked. and we have developed a list saying the following about that move saying the decision is against the interests of the country it's unacceptable it's without consultation without justifiable reason. you know if you can't even work together in the current government structure if this is what the dynamic is how do you expect to take on the taliban. well i think these are 2 different issues i think or mystical lee i think. any replacement or changing go of.

authorities or ministers i think it's within the. jurisdiction of the president i think. given by the constitution and him and i think these are. normal and i think. you need to see who best fits the job and i and i think that that's yeah but what's the point is that that the president and the chief executive in a so-called unity government are displaying anything but well i i think unity government doesn't mean that there won't be any any issues of difference i think it's it's again it's normal it's healthy and i think. this is what our get will continue to have to see to see so ambassador not easy for this allies i would have to leave it there thank you for joining us on conflicts on. thank you .

thanks.

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