the industry is controlling your thoughts the great books of the 20th century. present a hoax is. raising the money. starts to be serious. there is more freedom of speech today in the view that ever was in the history of libya it's in the human treatment it's barbarity it's the bye we have to give the government a chance libya has a new government of national unity which promises free elections by the end of this year but the roadblocks it faces are immense armed militia groups still hold power throughout the country they still kill and kidnap with impunity my guest this week is tommy the bio libya's ambassador to the u.n. in geneva where he joins me how will this new government succeed well all the

others have failed. coming by a welcome to conflict zone thank you thank you very inviting 3 days off to your new government of national unity was sworn in that was a shocking reminder of how little unity there is in your country up to 15 bodies were found handcuffed and dumped at a cement factory in the eastern city of benghazi while life remains so cheap and murderous enjoy almost total impunity in your country there's not been much to celebrate with this new government is there well that's not necessarily accurate because we don't 1st of all we don't know when this crime took place secondly as you know transition period things tend to be. take a little time to come to. more stable environments where you're not suggesting to

me that there are daily killings and discoveries of mass graves if these killings go on this government will fail like all the others won't it that's the point absolutely and therefore it's extremely important for the international community the united nations and other mechanisms of the international organizations to come together and help of the current government and every way possible better facts here and even if you checked into this you would know that we have passed a resolution at the 43rd session of the human rights council calling for a mechanism of accountability calling for the military to hold in this impunity of crimes committed in human rights violations committed and so we are seeking the help of the international community the united nations and other various organizations to step in and help us be able to put into unity stop when you have so much interest in doing that in the past with previous governments

have you. this was just the latest of many must killings as i was talking about by the dozens of militia groups that fight daily for control of your country and unless your government never mind the international community but unless your government comes to grips with these groups the new government is going to be just as powerless as all the others isn't it well again we have to give the government a chance for the keep in mind that the government has not even been in office for 30 days just gets and to there's a lot of work. ahead of there's a top order of tasks that each gets its share of including security and stability also keeping in mind that the role of the international community is extremely important or a ship that has compart on with the international community through the united nations is extremely important for the security instability in libya and the success of any governments so it is important for the international community to do its part let's not forget that we just came out of

a proxy war. yes i mean you can turn it over to the international community as much as you like but it's got to be done on the ground and this is a government and it's a weak government and it's going to be very difficult for it to gain control of those armed groups that have been allowed to capture so much of your state over previous years certainly and it doesn't look from what abdul hamid has said your interim prime minister that he has very much of a strong commitment to either justice or for accountability does it well here you seem to be judging the government before it even has a chance to be able to do it in terms of it by what it said or what it hasn't set of laws was judged by what has taken place in the few weeks that it has been asked let's look at the efforts that have already been done to fight institutions let's look at the efforts that have been done into stabilizing the security situation

through the joint military mission which lets you might again they ended a war in the last just a few months ago we would not be chopping. it's a cease fire and it's a shaky cease fire so it's a bit premature to talk about the end of the war isn't it. it's not a solid cease fire agree it is nonetheless there's a cease fire stop hostilities and there is a chance for peace again so let's and. this chance for peace. we've seen that there are there are 2 major advantages in the government for the armed militia groups firstly he's weak and secondly for the time being he has the keys to the safe so it's in their interest to do business with him but for how long they want to chance to get bounds on money and i see that he's already promised local

government a flurry of construction projects in various regions as long as he continues buying off these groups they'll go along with him if he starts getting tough with them they'll get rid of him whether. well again you know he didn't get it posed these pressures of the prime minister in know what his plans are but let's keep in mind that when we had a concert war and trees that were involved supported some of these armed groups and in libya which caused much of the of the destruction in disarray that we had been in number 2 keeping in mind that we had been calling for d.d.r. program a ceasar program keeping in mind day our immediate rb what videos are things that we basically taking these young men out of these armed groups militias environments and here and in training mature more constructive and positive elements of society this is going to take a long time is that this is more short term this is were short term measure this is

only a government that runs for 8 months that's that's not forget that's an interim government doesn't it absolutely so let's not hold the government so accountable for resolving everything with a magic wand so we have to meet up unless we can hold it accountable for certain things and in particular for the very corruption it should be promising to fight because even before the vote there were documented attempts by the baber supporters to bribe the le gets to support him that's pretty outrageous behavior isn't it well those those are allegations and that's not made by the u.n. they're made by the u.n. so they're not based on nothing of it well the u.n. is the same is the same xxvii the support of the dialogue and supported the coming of the government in syria are so but they didn't support the debate or supporters who were trying to bribe delegates to vote for him did they know when support that

that that well again these are allegations and has not been proven of any sort in that nothing has been stated by the u.n. it to that effect the u.n. inquiry said the pm supporters offered bribes as. $200000.00 to induce people to vote for him u.n. report was quite specific it said at least 3 such bribes were offered although all of them were apparently turned down well again let's as the u.n. about that and why they supported the outcomes of the of the dialogue and in having the paper government coming to them to ask let's keep in mind again it's a new government it's a very well representative of the entire libya it managed to break the entire country together this is the 1st time that we have one government one of the german recognised internationally and nationally and given the trust aren't a chore which has not been able to do so for previous governments the house of representatives that is correct as representatives so we we are seeing some

positive steps in the right direction the bishes not rosie we have a lot of work we have a lot of things that we need to address it is not something that's going to happen overnight but we need to build on the positive blocks that we have measured and begin to accomplish so far you say that one of the worst aspects of these bribery allegations is that the baby was interim office described the claims as fake news when they clearly won't fake a tour and that doesn't say much for the levels of honesty or transparency that he says he's going to adhere to does it is his response to these allegations suggest that his government is going to be as dishonest as all the others have been doesn't it well be happy to connect you with his spokesman and he can address these concerns for. mr the baby has reputation is pretty checkered isn't it he prospered mightily during the dictatorship of moammar gadhafi he ended up running the libyan investment and development holding company which itself was rumored to have been

involved in corruption and money laundering why should people trust him now especially at this critical time and let's let's let's talk about libya here because you're focusing on allegations that yemen one particular individual who can address these are patients and sell the geishas of the company the company in particular that he could he were here yesterday as a libyan representative the united nations let's talk about what positive things and been able to do let's talk about the resolution that was passed in the rights council contrary out of belief for her rights violations and the mass graves and the crimes that have been noted and in libya let's talk about the resolution that has been passed or refrigeration and listen funds that are right rightfully oma by the state of libya let's talk about the initiative that was ordered peace initiative that was supported here in geneva the letter to the signing of the peace

agreements and a cease fire in libya a lot of positive things that we need to focus on and we need to build on the this is the direction the need to go for want to get the chance of the war to have a chance and let's not forget perspective and this should be the benchmark one libya for is younger country that it is it's come out it will sanction has been an military dictatorship rule for over 4 decades then it had a revolutionary and vicious periods where meddling in foreign countries of the there's an. island with a chapter on state capture by the armed militia groups that were allowed to get close to power and still are. in power you talk about passing resolutions passing resolutions doesn't change the fact that you have indicted war criminals promoted to powerful positions in your country and you and they're still there and there are

plenty of examples of them up there abdul ghani i'll quickly also known as guinea were now head of a new entity called the stability support or 30 he reports directly to the presidency human rights groups have documented war crimes and serious rights violations by his forces for more than 10 years the european un reported these troops have previously opened far on civilians none of that prevented his appointment and is appointment is still in place how is your country can you tell me this how is your country to move forward when these people who are suspected of serious war crimes are in these enormous positions of responsibility. suspects you know i'm not here to be a court to judge on these individuals i'm here to be able to unify the international community's position of the libya situation and we need to arrest

many issues some of which are ones you measured but we also have to rest and that some international scope of the interventions and the interference of other countries into the affairs internal affairs of libya if we were contacts as far as i'm concerned my position your geneva that is a major yes we need to work on a lot of fronts but this is the problem we need to focus on and we need to work hard to unify your national army. we've talked a little bit about accountability and justice amnesty international described in a report 2 months ago the justice system in libya as dysfunctional and ineffective judges and prosecutors said risk assassination and abduction for doing their jobs is not a fact then the virtually every check and balance every restraint on illegal power and criminal activity has now been removed in libya hasn't it how do you put all

that back together again. well it's a process it's a complicated process enterprise of our org recognize that we do know we have problems you do not with that we have major issues that we need to deal with but we need to help with that internship do that and how do we do that we do that by stopping vention and the meddling into the internal affairs of libya we start the the computer it's a violation of. the security council resolutions or the violations of arms embargo by many states some of these sanctions talking about. we do that by helping control the borders of libya and there has been calling for for a long time the support of common to share orders with our neighbors as well and. our partners the european partners to come in to help them to do that through the you ben agreements we need we need to activate our arms things we can it's

a domino effect issue but it means that mr by this government is only designed to last until december the 24th that's the date when libyans are supposed to freely elect the next administration that's only 8 months away what chance does this weak government have of organizing those free elections with the massive human rights abuses that are taking place in your country day after day well there's threats and hate and they recognize that and they recognize what their agenda is but it's a process it's building process it's a process we have to start somewhere we can see a realistic process or just didn't you know you have the u.n. special envoy for libya young telling the security council last month that his office continues to document and horrific catalogue of brutality in your country killings inforce disappearances sexual violence including rape attacks against activists and human rights defenders and hate crimes the international

responsibility international community is responsible for that. the meddling that you've talked about isn't responsible for that that's coming from people your own people inside your own country isn't it you think that sets the right conditions for a free and fair election in libya in just under 8 months time but again it's a building process we have to take measures steps going forward in the right direction positive direction all these issues must be addressed the international community does have a role in this matter of fact as i stated earlier there are national unity and some of the countries that have metal into the internal affairs of maybe were the primary cause for some of these things are you talking about we need to be able to make a start to that make sure that we give looking at chance to address its concerns its problems but we do know that we don't have is this going to take how long how long do you want to chance for well those you are have you have a government of national accord before that didn't do it it was

a government of appeasement you know if it prioritized the. paying off of the groups in appeasing the armed groups over justice that is this government going to make the same mistake the last one did let's let's be fair and let's get down to the been there rather than what you just said should be said about our countries will be paying off armed groups in libya who are causing much of these problems that you're talking about. we need to be able to address the issues as they are so let's let's let's control the situation where libyans can handle the ringback process internally and then we can judge and hold accountable the government and what it can do and cannot do well i want to match the situation in the country to the prime minister's rhetoric if that's indeed possible the new prime minister is on record francis as a he wants to spread

a culture of freedom of opinion and expression how exactly will he do that when journalists have to work in constant fear in your country the rights group reporters without borders says for instance that the toll of abuses against journalists the media outlets by armed groups associated with successive libyan government has grown steadily we're talking murder we're talking about action we're talking torture here you're focusing on the crimes that we recognize of crimes and we do understand that there are there to fight them the bigger ones then they're pretty important ones aren't but because of course they're part of that's why that is going through a transition that's why we need to get out of this 'd violence violence aids and be able to get into the restoration of a country institutions be able to set into civilian democratic state and be able to give the human rights to the libyan people keeping in mind again if that is the benchmark the established really out of the conversation then this is

a new culture that we have to go into that we are not so well experienced about we do need the help to be able to accomplish that and the will is there the the the goals and the objectives have been sat since september 17th 2011 and wanting to is to just set up a democratic state that is based on freedoms that's based on justice that's based on the ability to prosper and do well and the current problems knows that there's a great words but how do you get there how do you get there. and you have these enormous roadblocks in your path how do you get there you know it without a free press you don't have a basis for democracy you don't have a free press there's no law in libya guaranteeing the public's right of access to information is that what was the chances they'll ever be one in libya where you know once again there are more t.v. stations in the view today than there ever were before you know what. the people

are talking about wanting to set of freedom of speech in libya not only that there is more freedom of speech today in libya that ever was in the history of libya they are really not doing even passes that reporters without borders says libya has reached it's a lowest ever position in the groups world press in that once 164 out of 180 countries that's worse than during the gadhafi era that's a huge step backwards isn't it. well again i don't know what if mission they're basing their their their reports on but we do do we do need to recognize that there's more of a chance to be able to set up a civil state set up on democratic values on freedoms and justice today than we ever had a possibility to be able to do so in the past history of libya and we need to be able to capitalize on that we need to be able to support that we need to be able to work on that and we recognize that the order is fall but there is the will and

there is the commitment to want to go down this path and we need to get the commitments by our libyans and others the international community including to support that effort even before libyans get to the december elections this government is committed to holding a referendum on a new constitution. again how you doing form the public without a free press is is up to you but what if you miss the deadlines what if you missed the deadline for this new constitution and the new elections it's pretty tight isn't it see stuck around ravel if you don't get that. it is it is very tight and you know the possibility of missing the deadline just as possible as a matter of fact she kind of nations has but has missed many deadlines in the past in the process of coming to this point so we do need to work the commitment again is there the will is there and the efforts are underway keeping in mind the process

has already been. established with some other that like there's the july 1st deadline to agreements on a constitutional basis to passing a legislation to ensure the elections law and the preparations for the highway patrol commission to do its work to allow for the 24th of december elections but there is also another very important deadline there's a deadline that we have already passed the international community has passed the united nations has passed the exit of off foreign fighters and mercenaries out of libya. that has yet to happen that is an extremely important because stability and security again to your point is extremely important to be able to do these elections in a stable and secure environment. by we've heard a lot of ground rhetoric from the prime minister about libyans being one unit one heart that heart hasn't been much in evidence these last few years has

a look at the shocking way migrants have been treated in your country in the last 2 months hundreds of them have been intercepted trying to flee libya in small boats and head for europe do you know why they're so desperate to leave libya and you know what happens to them when they're brought back to libya these migrants many of them do you know that yes i do as a matter of fact i'm but let me correct you what you're saying is not accurate are number one these migrants when they left their towns and villages from the various countries in africa they set their mind and going to the northern shores of the mediterranean they were not coming to libya libya's a transit country everybody knows that same reports they were for the u.n. reports everybody knows that but also and yet in and yet in libya they continue to be systematically subject to arbitrary detention and torture in both official and unofficial places of detention you proud of that no i'm not proud we do have

problems and the libyan government has recognized and continues to recognize the violations of the problems that we have with my kids have been government has been associated with these violations has been directly associated with these violations . let me let me just finish this point it's extremely important what you're referring to the constitutes a crimes or alleged crimes on a population of about 4000 migrants in detention centers or what's called a gathering and and departure facilities it's in the human if you have human much treatment it's bob barassi it's the fight. it's inhuman treatment we're talking about sexual violence abduction for ransom extortion forced labor unlawful killing it doesn't matter whether it's 4000 or 4000000 why why are you what does it say about your people that you are treating migrants in this way that is not correct to

your formation is not fully accurate reporting half of that if a mission that has been out there let me also repeat to you as i was stating the the a legit crimes you're talking about which the libyan government has been dealing with and continues to work with and deal with with the various u.n. or it is a chanst is concerning some facilities where there's no more than or $5000.00 at the most migrants that happened to be in these facilities because they're supposed to and the u.n. organizations also know that these are migrants that are supposed to be limited to another country but the rest of it of the migrants that we have and we have about a 1000000 in libya live freely and safely among all libyans throughout libya all right. i mean by we've run out of time thank you thank you for making my point thank you very much for your time.

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the book. this is d w news live from russia wraps up its crackdown on political opposition police arrest more than a 1000 people rally in support of jailed crime and critic alexei navalny is in dire health and in the 3rd week of the hunger strike. just a day off the derek show and conviction in minneapolis mourners pay tribute to dante writeup a black man could lost his life at the hands of u.s. . and demi's parliament pulses.