for just one week. how much will it really get that. we still have time to ask i'm going. to subscribe to like. well it's been a remarkable few days here in germany with the 2 biggest political parties announcing that candidates to replace i'm going to marigold when she steps down off the september's national election for the conservative christian a democrat since i mean last year's chief minister not off the large state of north rhine-westphalia brought after an acrimonious campaign battle against rival marcos lashes priority will be to reunite his party in the greens meanwhile have chosen coming to an allin about bach does that challenge up for the chancellorship she has

no experience in government but she's promising a radical rethink in german politics focusing on issues like global warming so here on to the point we are off to matt cold who's going to be germany's next chancellor . oh thanks so much for joining me here on the show with me in the studio. who is both an author and germany correspondent for the french magazine. she says after 16 years of sometimes deadening continuity i'd like to see germany showing more courage and of being a bit more adventurous also with us is d.w. political correspondent nina who argues that the green candidates is angle america's natural successor but is germany ready for the shake up that she stands for all under a very warm welcome. during skelly of the irish times who argues that mark is

a scam paid the ultimate kiss of death from a national campaign before it can even get underway. first off thank you very much for those 3 statements a lot of talk about to leave me no let me begin with you and ask you to put some in a nutshell what has happened in the last 5 $67.00 days also for people who saw in germany people outside germany it's now becoming clearer who the faces are that are going to be relevant in germany in the next couple of months until we go to the polls in september because of course for a long time and i couldn't understand why it took the c.d.u. in the c.s. used so long to battle this out it looked as though the c.d.u. still believed that they could go into this campaign with america as their figurehead when it's clear it's been clear for a very long time that she's not going to run again but this week they finally decided it's going to be it and then the greens didn't have that rivalry going on

a tall they presented a very silky smooth campaign and they. have stage management now. is there is that now a vacuum looking forward to the election the greens of court for the 1st chancellor come did it ever is she going to fill the vacuum left by. she know the focus of attention where she's the focus of attention because she's very particular political person. that we didn't know before she's very young she's 40 of the thing they've ever been some of the as young wanting to be a translator in germany she's a woman and she has new ideas she says she wants to change this country country she's also not the style of. much more open there are other people say well she's like us. so that's why she's for the media she's absolutely. object or of a. of 2 to right about now is she going to change completely. is she going to be

the next chancellor that's the big big question mark because i think that the green would probably be part of the next coalition but to do the job have enough guts and enough courage to decide to put a young woman like that from a party which has been in power but never known as a chancellor that's really really not sure it 2 or 3 just said let's focus on who this is there are no 3 candidates in the running who who for you is let's say the front runner it all really depends unfortunately there is no clear answer because we don't really know do voters want somebody to fill the merkel sized hole that she will leave when she departs or do they say oh no we cannot just have another type merkel we know we need to we need to try filling different holes another style of leadership another style of policy making on the style of risk taking and the politicians don't actually know quite yet what voters want because just as need

a said voters are only now starting to realise alright we had 4 terms of market she actually told us back in 2018 but actually we can't so no voters and politicians and i just think this new reality and the polls are starting to come in interesting polls and it's on that we don't actually know yet so it's actually not a nightmare scenario politicians are trying to particular programs but they don't actually quite know how they're going to appeal because america has been there for so long because an entire generation of 1st time voters who just don't know anything apart from america but there was a time for america would be a time after but it just depends on our german voters deciding in a time like this let's go for something new or is this a time for security and you know the devil you know or the devil you don't it shouldn't be underestimated i think that you know when i speak to people who have children you know 11 or 12 many of them ask can a man even be chancellor you know there's a whole generation that doesn't. no a

a male chancellor i think had chances of probably high it especially among 1st time voters then we think now. just talking about her being a woman did when you saw her because the greens had 2 remarkable candidates they're . back and. will were both viewed as an universal i think it's fair to say almost universally viewed as remarkable political personalities the man stepped back how much of it and how important was that moment for you personally and for german politics. well i think that i don't think i think that the best should win i mean i'm not very much for quotes that the women should be pushed forward just because they're women and i think. very very cautious of that is when she wants to be seen as the better candidate and not just because she's a woman she has. from what i hear she's she knows very well

she's very well informed she's. she when she doesn't do something she really works hard to understand it he's more can speak very well he's very charming but he's also very intelligent extremely intelligent. and so they chose probably the person who you know who was the most solid and pragmatic she's very conscientious work. and maybe they were a bit frightened that. would sort of lose it on certain themes i think it's. but they had the benefit of the choice they had 2 very good candidates which is not the case in other parties ok let's rewind a little bit let's go back to the conservative christian democrats angela merkel's party the c.d.u. they've been in power for 4 consecutive terms no wonder their traditional views of ruthless election winning the battle between the cd use arming lushington market

of the variances the party the c.s.u. who's clearly taking a toll on the conservatives and lots of luck. not only does he understand carnival and how to be a father of the country he also knows how to a certain self he can even smile a very. good from now on count is which party has the best policies for the future of our country who forms the strongest team to tackle its challenges. but many would have preferred to say. from the c.s.u. to the variances into the race and there continues to be rumblings within the city as a result there is also a responsibility to the union only a united union can be successful in the end. a pyrrhic victory for the political moderate and ally of merkel but 1st the 60 year old has to pick up the pieces caused by an open power struggle including

a drop in the poll rating and voter dissatisfaction caused by the party's coronavirus policy as. will the truce in the union last until the election. germany's christian democrats the c.d.u. . since the federal republic begun. i wouldn't say that but just look at those pictures i was just imagining that sort of standing much in the c.d.c.'s who is appalled and he's standing there with a cigarette in his mouth and he's just looking at the disaster that has been left after this fight this furniture has been destroyed the glasses are broken you know there's beer puddles in the corner and he has to clear all that up 1st before i mean the pubs are closed in germany but before he can even invite any voters in i mean it's to decide what am i selling you know so he's standing there with the cigarette and this and the broom or anything where do i start so he has 5 months so i mean if he can pull this off he would be quite an impressive figure he's often

considered that the less impressive figure but we've been there before him the cold was considered a bit of an embarrassment i mean omran lash it takes a lot of the boxes he meant to be the you know the almost 2 meter tall impressive sort of moving figure that marcus sort of was but he just seems to do a lot of things that germans actually like otherwise he wouldn't be put to the head of the most the largest populous most populous state in germany so you know being underrated is done on your mark no harm and no he'll just have to prove that you know although he's a man he can do the job as well and perhaps it's a bit early to underestimate but his own party has really made it very difficult i mean to do all this and 5 months before you can even go out and go out and sell yourself to voters is certainly as they would say we're going to do. if you go will move to describe. when we're. unique selling point i would like to stay if i may with pub because i think.

i think we can even add to that another image that doesn't just stand there is a pub owner but he stands there is a pub owner with a big bruise in his face because he's already been punched and you know he wasn't the natural leader of the c.d.u. he had to fight his way through there as well and so he went into this rivalry with locker sudha as somebody who many people saw as a compromise candidate because the other options for know but what can what really viable options are you know the pub times there and he has to in this important election year he has to communicate to his own party to the party in the various and he can't address the big issues of our time that is has been a lot of wasting of time for this you for the conservatives i find this incredible a lot of it has to do with on the america as well you have to add because of course she would have had to present

a natural successor i mean if you're in power for 16 years you've got all the time that it takes and she has taken a couple of attempts you know we all remember that was that often the line who's now the european commission president was once her favorite and then she presented and come combo who's now a defense minister but all of these options were never accepted in the c.d.u. and so to just done that after 16 years of michel and to see the. fight this rivalry is just astonishing you talk of the people in france are very interested perhaps more interested than you might to be mentioned not too long ago and what's going on in germany at the moment what is the fascination with 1st the fascination is. so amazing each story i write there's always. it was about last year and the greens and they said what does anger the american think of it so it's going to be very difficult for the french to barry i'm going to american to to realize that she's not there anymore she's been

much much more loved and worshiped than than she is in germany so that the 1st acknowledge the french are realizing what ms you were saying in the big this is the end there's going to be somebody and so they're very interested in the greens because we have a green party in france which is. the state where the green party here was about 10 or 15 years ago so very left wing. you know having all sorts of conflict within each other and not at all ready to be made to be to have a president a green president that's far far far away in france so that's very interesting how did the green move didn't change how did they become problematic and ready for for government that's very interesting for them as well and then who is going to descend the colors of the conservatives and why is the conservative so parties so. so these are a very interesting what was your comment on that question about the journey that

the greens have been on whether you know they were. the party that's how they were a chaotic party and tea party many people to survive the mass and now that they're somewhere else they're effectively part of the establishment they all the establishment are they don't want to quote a friend of mine who works for the greens she was looking on she's not a politician she just looked at them to switch their gagging for power and they'll almost do anything for power and that i think is the risk because the people who brought them to the people who have kept them alive for 30 years might not be so impressed by that like the more professional they've been in power once before in the guard trader from 100-8005 they have to they have to give up some of their illusions about reality that you know nature will continue to exist wars happen in germany is going to be invited to participate. so they've already lost. their innocence on that front but there's a lot more innocence they're going to have to lose if they're going to go into power with the christian democrats and already you can see you know they're saying oh yes we are doing so well because the time of course is the heart of politics but

many of the green green green are actually saying yes but you're prepared to come from eyes everything for power we almost need more radical than the greens so she's she's presenting herself she's from the pragmatic the reaal part of the party and what won't she do for power and that's when certain green voters their core vote actually start to realize that they will do anything for power there or i mean younger people are already starting to drift away looking for you know the climate friday's future people are talking about you know if they just peel away in a photo so the greens of they've become mainstream and if you could say they've grown up in the way they would like to this party you could say it's very adult but is that the strength of the greens you know is that why the greens exist and have they not left space for something more radical to come along that's what i think is most interesting or i think it's also another dinner ration look at the green vote i mean the people who used to fight that gore neighbor who used to fight against will be hardcore phemie nice i mean all of these ideas of the green where they all

know either in their fifty's sixty's even modo and then become establishment so the people who vote this type of greens have changed as well and i think it's really a generation change and the times have changed in germany. and that's why this green party has. changed so much but i think we also have to look at the fact where the greens were only 4 years ago if you remember many of us were asking ourselves are they even going to make it into britain this stark and this was only 4 years ago and they were very much part of the establishment then and they were very much fighting for power and they very much compromising on all sorts of issues but then what they did and i think that is something that has tremendously helped them revitalize the party is they've stayed. on that topic they've stayed on on climate and of course the climate debate has picked up and that is not because of

the greens but they managed to stay on the topic of the parties and sort of joining the game and they're all making climate policy a part of the party program but you know nobody's quite as this is a livable as that but also sorry when you saw the credibility you know we're now talking about establishing the greens are talking about establishing a climate neutral transatlantic partnership with joe. the european this is this is a. political policymaking of huge scale and scope and i think i mean i think i may be in it and i think they mean it which is why i think uncle america would have wanted that as well but i'm going to america will. if we look back we branded her as the climate chancellor when she 1st took office she started as an environment minister etc but she was always looking for the do a bowl she was always looking for the compromises that was a very very strong lobby in this country and all of these factors have now

changed so this is why in my introduction i said and i do know is the natural successor because i'm going to america would have as a scientist also seen that it is important to do radical steps together with the us . would be in a position with joe biden to seize the opportunity to present something that can hopefully change. in a way that we actually do fight. climate change interesting we're talking of the greens who are truly on fire at this point so i must get something to just so you can see who the people are we're talking about what's going on. will chancellor angela merkel become chancellor. in september. the 40 year old green party leader wants to give it a shot. democracy is all about change i

have never been chancellor nor minister i stand for renewal other candidates represent the status quo. i'm only in a bare box has always been high and not just as a competitive athlete. born in hanover she studied international law and spent several years abroad and she joined the green party in 2008 and in the 5 years later she entered the bundestag her core issues are climate protection as well as european foreign and domestic security the mother of 2 children is regarded as quick witted objective and solid. she has been at the forefront of the green party since 2018 alongside. and for a long time she was considered to be the party's number 2 despite a steep learning curve and a lack of political experience she used her ambition to work a way up the ranks but not everyone alina please the stage is yours.

is germany ready for a green chancellor. question is germany ready for a green. i don't think so. i think the germans are known as being very anxious they don't like change otherwise they wouldn't have elected american 6 for 16 years and. with colorful 16 years i mean there's no other country in europe where this continuing i mean you need to be in the change of prime minister every 2 years every every 6 months in germany strachey's and. this very famous quote from the other no it's kind of experimental no it's experiments and i think this is going to know now it's the beginning of the al qaeda. you are calling on the german government you are calling a legitimate people to be more adventurous to be to be more experimental what is it you want to see specifically what i mean i think it would do this country

a lot of good to have a new mixture of the government to have for example a coalition between the green and the conservatives or another or the greens which we in parts of germany they're all coalitions with those parties involved where it's. very wedding exactly which is they reached the last column of their cars you know to where they're going to 5 inches. and that would bring a little bit the wind of change in there would be more energy in this country i mean just to vote just to vote because what he's fighting for for the same. maybe not a good idea. would be lazy in the course of a discussion to talk about i mean last sentence being somehow. a yesterday man or somebody with with the feel of yesteryear and the greens of the party of change that. does it does it help i think as journalists and we're also in this political

bubble in berlin we always need to be careful we're living in cloud cuckoo land we're not there in reality in the german reality and just because a lot of journalists into want the greens to do well and people would say well for the planet we want to do well. but a lot of people are there's an almost awful lot of i mean lashes out there and he doesn't you know people said america did so well because she didn't like she was she kept her brief she kept her brilliance quite well hidden and people talked about it in meetings but a press conference as you just saw this very solid on the shakable woman but you know the actual brilliance and the detail the capacity for detail she kept really private and lush it is head of the you know he has sort of his economy is larger than sweden's he's obviously doing something right he's been in power not going to fall and is doing quite well not harness failure and. we shouldn't underestimate what. the germans actually want and he said don't know experiments and i think people will like the feeling that it's nice to think we could vote for for better back it's nice she's there on the menu but we're actually just going to vote for

the schnitzel as we always do. you know and that's not a nation or a judgment but it's just more vague and but our people are a lot of people in germany who are frightened of the greens that there was an interesting movement and that is this week. and a little bit a book came out and said there's no such thing as a little bit of climate protection we're going to go for it full. in its entirety that the implication was it could hurt it could hurt you yeah but you know it's a bit like you can't be a little bit pregnant or either doing it or you aren't doing it and that the real tension will be with the c.d.u. they'll try to do in industry friendly climate change which is kind of like if you're allowing the industry industry to do that you have what we have the current store america was lobbying for the car industry in brussels and they were cheating on exhaust fumes in sport on the same weekend so the greens will need to push that but all you shouldn't forget that bareback knows that they will as soon as the election really gears up they'll be put in this sort of green ideological corner

partly only green people are ideological you know if you're a car lobbyist you're not an ideological person but they will be put in the ideological corner so already in her speech she was preempting up by saying we have to think of the lower earning single parents we have to think of the industry workers we have to make this work for them so she will be judged by how credible her messaging is for those people because they are not classic green voters but unless you can peel off a few of them and of course the younger voters we don't know what the younger voters are going to do this is a very interesting election for all those people who have never vote never known anyone except america they're probably you know are they wedded to the idea more of a c.d.u. transfer or a woman chancellor will she be able to appeal to younger voters in the ways that somebody of my age can't even imagine yet so a lot to play for in the greens have a lot to go for we're running out of time just germany in the old country to vote those are not all going to be young. the most most germs are quite old and these people i just can't see them it's also very pattern artistic country i just can't see the the

a lot of people or majority of germans of overly germans voting for 40 year old woman who has no experience of power. this 40 year old we haven't talked about it enough to give you just the surge for a quick minute on to you know. who will be talking about her experience. her family movies fact i think she's dealt with all those questions very well because she doesn't avoid. them and she has said so you know the conservatives have been in power for 16 years so maybe it's not just experience that you need some green politicians said you know just because somebody has been a minister for a long time like traffic and infrastructure minister years not doing a very good job doesn't make him a very good politician so experience is not everything you offer.

her thank you all very very much indeed for talking rob i'm going home who's going to replace him. see you next week but part. of a. because

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is the news live from berlin travel bans from india their country chief 1st thing record numbers of. india's health care system is reaching the breaking point many hospitals are full and the capital is faced with must formations for those who stop also coming off. as an international climate summit president joe biden pledges to cut u.s. greenhouse gas emissions in costs by the end of the decade other countries joining in.