well this is where all of the stories that matter to you. believe. me. we are here is actually on fire. well it's been a remarkable few days here in germany with the 2 biggest political parties announcing that candidates to replace i'm going to meg old when she steps down off the september's national election for the conservative christian a democrat sits on mean last year's chief minister of the lalage sate of north rhine-westphalia thoughts after an acrimonious campaign battle against rival caucus lashes priority will be to reunite his passing the greens meanwhile have chosen

county down to lynn about bulk us that challenge up for the chancellorship she has no experience in government but she's promising a graphic old rethink in german politics focusing on issues like global warming so here on to the point we are off to matt cold who's going to be germany's next chancellor. oh thanks so much for joining me here on the show and with me in the studio is. both an author and germany correspondent for the french magazine. she says after 16 years of sometimes deadening continuity i'd like to see germany showing more courage and being a bit more adventurous also with us is d.w. political correspondent nina who argues that the green counted is i'm going to medical sinatra. but this is germany ready for the shake up that she stands for and

a very warm welcome to 2 during skelly of the irish times who argues that mark has . the ultimate kiss of death from a national campaign before it can even get underway. first thank you very much for those 3 statements a lot to talk about clearly me you know let me begin with you and ask you support shelters happened in the last 567 days or so for people who. well for people outside germany it's now becoming clearer who the faces are that are going to be relevant in germany in the next couple of months until we go to the polls in september because of course for a long time and i couldn't understand why do you in the c.s.u. so long to battle this out it looked as though the cd you still believe that they could go into this campaign with america as their figurehead when it's clear it's been clear for a very long time that she's not going to run again this week they finally decided

it's going to be it and then the greens didn't have that rivalry going on a tall they presented a very silky smooth campaign and they may see how nice of stage management now. is there is that now a vacuum looking forward to the election the greens of court for the 1st chancellor come did it ever is she going to fill the vacuum left by. politics is she now the focus of attention which is the focus of attention because she's very particular political person. that we didn't know before she's very young she's 40 of those thing they've ever been some of the young wanting to be a translator in germany she's a woman she has new ideas she says she wants to change this country country she's also not the style of british much more open there are other people say well she's like us. so that's why she. for the media she's absolutely. one food.

object or of 2 to right about now is she going to change completely politics is she going to be the next chancellor. with a big big question mark because i think that the green would probably be part of the next coalition but to do the job have enough guts and you know of courage to decide to put a young woman like that from a party which has been in power but never known as a chancellor that's really really not true and to throw it just said let's focus on who this is there are no 3 candidates in the running who who for you is let's say the front runner it all really depends unfortunately there is no clear answer because we don't really know do voters want somebody to fill the merkel sized hole that she will leave when she departs or do they say oh no we cannot just have another type merkel we know we need to and we need to try filling different holes another style of leadership another style of policy making on the style of risk

taking and the politicians don't actually know quite yet what voters want because just as nina said voters are only now starting to realise alright we had 4 terms of america that she actually told us back in 2018 but actually we can't so no voters and politicians and i adjusting to this new reality and the polls are starting to come in interesting polls and it's on that we don't actually know yet so it's actually a nightmare scenario and politicians are trying to put together programs but they don't actually quite know how they're going to appeal because america has been there for so long because an entire generation of 1st time voters who just don't know anything apart from america but there was a time for america would be a time after but it just depends on our german voters deciding in a time like this let's go for something new or is this a time for security and you know the devil you know or the devil you don't it shouldn't be underestimated i think that you know when i speak to people who have children you know 11 or 12. many of them ask can

a man even be chancellor you know there's a whole generation that doesn't know i'm a chancellor so i think had chances are probably high it especially among 1st time voters then we think now. just talking about her being a woman do when you saw her because the greens had 2 remarkable candidates the robot how back and. well were both universally i think it's fair to say almost universally viewed as remarkable political personalities the man stepped back how much of it and how important was that moment for you personally and for jim in politics. well i think that i don't think i think the best should win i mean i'm not very much for quotes that the women should be pushed forward just because they're women and i think and i'm very very cautious of that is when she wants to be seen as the better candidate and not just because she's a woman she has. from what i hear she's she knows very well

she's very well informed she's. she when she doesn't do something she really works hard to understand it he's more can speak very well he's very charming but he's also very intelligent extremely intelligent. and so they chose probably the person who who was the most solid and pragmatic she's very conscientious work. and maybe they were a bit frightened that. would sort of lose it on certain themes i think it's. but they had the benefit of the choice they had 2 very good candidates which is not the case in other parties ok let's rewind a little bit let's go back to the conservative christian democrats angle americans party the c.d.u. they've been in power for 4 consecutive terms no wonder their traditional views of

ruthless election winning machine but the battle between the cd use army lushington marcus of the variances the party the c.s.u. who's clearly taken a toll on the conservatives let's have a look. not only does he understand carnival and how to be a father of the country he also knows how to a certain self he can even smile at opponents if necessary. from now on. is which party has the best policies for the future of our country who forms the strongest team to tackle its challenges. but many would have preferred to say. from the c.s.u. the bavarian sister party into the race and there continues to be rumblings within the. as a result there is also a responsibility to the union only a united union can be successful in the end. a pyrrhic victory for the political

moderate and ally of merkel but 1st the 60 year old have to pick up the pieces caused by an open power struggle including a drop in the poll rating and voter dissatisfaction caused by the party's coronavirus policy as. will the truce in the union last until the election. germany's christian democrats the c.d.u. . since the federal republic begun. i wouldn't say that but just look at those pictures i was just imagining army lost it's sort of standing much in the c.d.c.'s he was appalled and he's standing there with a cigarette in his mouth and he's this looking at the disaster that has been left after this fight this furniture has been destroyed the glasses are broken you know there's beer puddles in the corner and he has to clear all that up 1st before i mean the pubs are closed in germany but before he can even invite any voters in i mean it's to decide what am i selling you know so he's standing there with the cigarette and this and the broom and he said where do i start and he has 5 months

so i mean if he can pull this off he would be quite an impressive figure he's often considered that the less impressive figure but we've been there before him with cold was considered a bit of an embarrassment i mean aren't russia takes a lot of the boxes he meant to be the you know the almost 2 meter tall impressive sort of moving figure that marcus sort of was but he just seems to do a lot of things that germans actually like otherwise he wouldn't be the head of the most the largest populous most populous state in germany so you know being under-rated is done on the market no harm and no he'll just have to prove that you know although he's a man he can do the job as well and perhaps it's a bit early to underestimate but his own party has really made it very difficult i mean to do all this and 5 months before you can even go out and go out and sell yourself to voters is certainly shortly as they would say we're going to do. just. go will move to describe only. one was. well to those unique selling

point i would like to stay if i may with pub because i think that is. i think we can even add to that another image that doesn't just stand there is a pub owner but he stands there is a pub owner with a big bruise in his face because he's already been punched and you know he wasn't the natural leader of the c.d.u. he had to fight his way through there as well and so he went into this rivalry with lockwood sudha as somebody who many people saw as a compromise candidate because the other options for today no but what can what really viable options are you know this pub. and he has to in this important election year he has to communicate to his own party to the party in the varia and he can't address the big issues of our time that is has been a lot of wasting of time for this you for the conservatives i find this incredible a lot of it has to do with i'm going to medical as well you have to add because of

course she would have had to present a natural successor i mean if you're in power for 16 years you've got all the time that it takes and she has taken a couple of attempts you know we all remember that was that often the line who's now the european commission president was once her favorite and then she presented and come combo who's now a defense minister but all of these options were never accepted in the c.d.u. and so to just stunned that after 16 years of michael and to see the. fight this rivalry is just astonishing you talk of the people in front so very interested perhaps more interested than you might to be mentioned not too long ago and what's going on in germany of the moment what is the fascination with 1st the fascination is. kind of it's amazing isn't it but each story i write there's always goes about. the greens and they said but what does anger the

american think of it so it's going to be very difficult for the french to bury i'm going to america to to realize that she's not there anymore she's been much much more loved and worshiped than than she is in germany so that the 1st signal the french are realizing what it is them is you are saying in the big this is the end there's going to be somebody and so they're very interested in the greens because we have a green party france which is. in a state where the green party here was about 10 or 15 years ago so very left wing. you know having all sorts of conflict within each other and not at all ready to be . to be to have a president a green president that's far far far away in france so that's very interesting how did the green. move then change how did they become problematic and ready for the government that's very interesting for them as well and then who is going to descend the commons the conservatives and why is the conservatives so parties so.

so these are a very interesting what was your comment that question about the journey that the greens have been on whether you know they were. a hippie passy that's how they were a chaotic party and tea party many people who survived the mass and know that there's somewhere else so they're effectively part of the establishment they are all the establishment are they not well to quote a friend of mine who works for the greens she was looking on she's not a politician she just looked at them to switch their gagging for power and almost do anything for power and that i think is the risk because the people who brought them to the people who have kept them alive for 30 years might not be so impressed by that like the more professional they've been in power once before in the guard trotter from 100-8005 they have to they have to give up some of their illusions about reality that you know nature will continue to exist wars happened in germany was going to be invited to participate. so they've already lost their innocence on that front but there's a lot. more innocents are going to have to lose if they're going to go into power

with the christian democrats and already you can see you know they're saying oh yes we are doing so well because the time of course is the heart of politics but many of the green green green are actually saying yes but you're prepared to come from eyes everything for power we almost need more radical than the greens so she's she's presenting herself she's from the pragmatic the reaal part of the party and what won't she do for power and that's when certain green voters their core vote actually start to realize that they will do anything for power there or i mean younger people are already starting to drift away looking for you know the climate fridays for future people are talking about you know if they just peel away in a photo so the greens of they've become mainstream and they could say they've grown up in the way they would like to this party you could say it's very adult but is that the strength of the greens is that why the greens exist and have they not left space for something more radical to come along that's what i think is most interesting when i think it's also another dinner ration look at the green vote i mean the people who used to fight that go on

a bit who used to fight against will be hardcore femi nice i mean all of these ideas of the green where they all know either in their fifty's sixty's even older and then become the establishment so the people who vote these type of greens have changed as well and i think it's really a generation change in the times have changed in germany. and that's why these green party has. changed so much i think we also have to look at the fact where the greens were only 4 years ago if you remember many of us were asking ourselves are they even going to make it into this time and this was only 4 years ago and they were very much part of the establishment then and they were very much fighting for power and they very much compromising on all sorts of issues but then what they did and i think that is something that has tremendously helped them revitalize the party is they've stayed on that topic they've. on climate and of course the

climate debate has picked up and that is not because of the greens but they managed to stay on the topic of the parties are now sort of joining the game and they're all making climate policy a positive positive program but you know nobody's quite as. well as that but also sorry when you saw the credibility you know we're now talking about establishing the greens are talking about establishing a climate neutral transatlantic partnership with joe. the european this is this is a. political policymaking of huge scale and scope and i think i mean i think i may be in it and i think they mean it which is why i think uncle america would have wanted that as well but uncle americal. if we look back we branded her as the climate chancellor when she 1st took office she started as an environment minister etc but she was always looking for the doable she was always looking for

the compromises that was a very very strong kahlo be in this country and all of these factors have now changed so this is why in my introduction i said and i do know is the natural successor because i'm going to america would have as a scientist also seen that it is important to do radical steps together with the us . would be in a position with joe biden to seize the opportunity to present something that can hopefully change. in a way that we do fight. climate change interesting we're talking of the greens who are truly on fire at this point in time let's get something that is just so that you can see who the people we're talking about what's been going on. will chancellor angela merkel become chancellor. in september. the 40 year

old green party leader wants to give it a shot. she is all about change i have never been chancellor nor minister i stand for renewal other candidates represent the status quo. i'm only in a bare box has always been high and not just as a competitive athlete. born in hanover she studied international law and spent several years abroad. and she joined the green party in 2008. and 5 years later she entered the. core issues are climate protection as well as european foreign and domestic security the mother of 2 children is regarded as quick witted objective and solid. she has been at the forefront of the green party since 2000 me team alongside. and for a long time she was considered to be the party's number 2 despite a steep learning curve and

a lack of political experience she used her mission to work your way up the ranks and i knew that going alina please the stage is yours. is germany ready for a green chancellor. the question is germany ready for an agreement i don't think so. i think the germans are knowing this being very anxious you don't like change otherwise they would have elected. 6 for 16 years and. 16 years i mean there's no other country in europe where this continuing i mean you need to be in the change of prime minister every 2 years every every 6 months in germany strachey's and. this very famous quote from the other now it's kind of experimental you know expects parents and i think this is going to know now it's the beginning of that you are calling on the german government. you're calling

a legitimate people to be more adventurous to be to be more experimental what is it you want to see specifically when i mean i think it would do these country a lot of good to have a new mixture of the government to have for example a coalition between the green and the conservatives or another or the greens which we already in in parts of germany their own coalitions with those parties involved as well it works very well exactly which is they reached the last column of the far as you know sort of going to 5 inches. and that would bring a little bit the wind of change in the would be more energy in this country i mean just to vote just vote because what the fight for for for the same. maybe not a good idea. would be lazy in the course of a discussion to talk about on the last sentence being somehow. yesterday man or somebody with the with the feel of yesteryear and the greens of the party of change

is that. does it does it add up because journalists and we're also in this political bubble in berlin we always need to be careful we're living in cloud cuckoo land we're not there in reality in the german reality and just because a lot of journalists seem to want the greens to do well and people would say well for the plan if we want to do well. but a lot of people are there's an almost awful lot of i mean lashes out there and he doesn't you know people said america did so well because she didn't like she was she kept her brief she kept her brilliance quite well hidden and people talked about it in meetings for the press conferences you just saw this very solid on the shakable woman but you know the actual brilliance and the detail the capacity for detail she kept really private and i mean lush it is head of the you know he has sort of his economy is larger than sweden's he's obviously doing something right he's been in power not going to fund is doing quite well. and. we shouldn't underestimate what the germans actually want and this is a don't know. experiments and i think people will like the feeling that it's nice

to think we could vote for for babcock it's nice she's there on the menu but we're actually just going to vote for the schnitzel as we always do. you know and that's not a nation or a judgment but it's just more pagan to me but our people are a lot of people in germany who are frightened of the greens that there was an interesting movement and that is this week. and a little bit a book came out and said there's no such thing as a little bit of climate protection we're going to go for it full. in its entirety that the implication was they could hurt it could hurt you yeah but you know it's a bit like you can't be a little bit pregnant or other doing it or you aren't doing it and that the real tension will be with the c.d.u. they'll try to do an industry friendly climate change which is kind of like if you're allowing the industry industry to do that you have what we have the car industry or america was lobbying for the car industry in brussels and they were cheating on exhaust fumes in spork on the same weekend so the greens will need to

push but all you shouldn't forget that bareback knows that they will as soon as the election really gears up they'll be put in this sort of green ideological corner partly only green people are ideological you know if you're a car lobbyist you're not an ideological person but they will be put in the ideological corner so already in her speech she was preempting up by saying we have to think of the lower earning single parents we have to think of the industry workers we have to make this work for them so she will be judged by how credible her messaging is for those people because they are not classic green voters but unless she can peel off a few of them and of course the younger voters we don't know what the younger voters are going to do this is a very interesting election for all those people who have never vote never known anyone except america they're probably you know are they wedded to the idea more of a c.d.u. transfer or a woman chancellor will she be able to appeal to younger voters in the ways that somebody of my age can't even imagine yet so a lot to play for in the greens have a lot to go for we're running out of time just germany in the old country the voters are not all going to be young the most most germans are. it over and these

people i just can't see them it's also very pattern i listed country i just can't see the the a lot of people or majority of germans of overly germans voting for 40 year old woman who has no experience of power. this 40 year old we haven't talked about it enough to give you just the stage for a quick minute on it or you know. who will be talking about her experience you know her family movies fact i think she's dealt with all those questions very well because she doesn't avoid them as she preempts them and she has said so you know the conservatives have been in power for 16 years so maybe it's not just experience that you need some green politicians said you know just because somebody has been a minister for a long time like traffic and infrastructure minister is not doing a very good job doesn't make him a very good politician so experience is not everything ok ask are you off.

interest. thank you all very very much indeed for talking about i'm going home who's going to replace up. a member of. the.

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